fonzilla
Well-Known Member
This is what I got. Tell the fuckers to pitch in on a new router. http://www.cnet.com/products/asus-rt-n66u-dark-knight-double-450mbps-n-router/
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Spread Offense
- Thread starter JSU Zack
- Start date
This is what we were playing with in the BSCFL and CONF USA:
I don't you suppose you could ask your roommates to stay off the interwebs for an hour or two when you have user games? I have an ASUS router that was highly recommended and IMO reliable (although I don't know jack about electronics).
I was wondering why run block was at 0. You honestly can't tell a difference between 0 and 50 though. Sucks that special teams sliders still don't work. Is OPI-DPI on 0 just to try and tone down route mirroring?
I've liked how these have played, CPU games have been tough on me although I'm playing like garbage which doesn't help. Would like to see QBA go back down to 5 though. I know 5 can cause some insane wtf moments to happen but passes never seem to hit the ground at 10, it's either a catch or INT.
Used Clemson's default PB in a game against Bruin. Despite the 66 SPD QB, I wanted to run mostly Pistol with the ability to spread it and throw. Was very successful once I got the kinks out, although QBA 10 had a lot to do with that. I trailed a ton late and had to go 4 and 5 WR air it out to eek out a come from behind win but earlier in the game the Pistol was very good. For the most part I ran Zone Stretch and Inside Zone, I had a couple option plays in Pistol and Gun, wasn't bad but wasn't pretty either. Had a solid screen game in both pistol and gun and opened it up late when I needed to and managed to hit some Wheel routes and Posts.
Think I'll roll with this the rest of the year at NIU. I still got my FB carries, in fact he had the key carry lined up in the backfield on 4th & 1, broke a tackle to convert. He had a few more carries in Pistol Train. My HB was amazing though. Damn good player.
Think I'll roll with this the rest of the year at NIU. I still got my FB carries, in fact he had the key carry lined up in the backfield on 4th & 1, broke a tackle to convert. He had a few more carries in Pistol Train. My HB was amazing though. Damn good player.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
I've been running a pistol jet/option offense as well and have had a blast. Jet sweeps actually work but the defense tends to sell out to set the edge so it leaves a nice cutback for some big yards.
I've been warming up to Pistol a lot recently. I doubt I would do much Pistol if I had a legitimate run threat at QB just because the QB run options are better from the Gun but if you have a more drop back style passer, Pistol provides a nice traditional run-play action game that Gun doesn't really provide.
I have zero success with Jet from the Pistol though. The biggest problem with Pistol Jet in game is the same problem Pistol Jet has in real life, if you want your TB to lead block, he can't get out in front in time. In game, I run right into him more often than not. A lot of teams will just run Jet one way and have the QB and HB carry out a speed option fake the other way, and there is a Jet like that in game in Pistol Ace, but then you run into a whole bunch of other problems with playside blocking. Ideally Pistol would have a series where there is Jet/Fake Jet IZ/PA Jet like a few gun formations have but nope.
I think my plan going forward will just be adapt my Spread-I to personnel. The formations really don't matter in my offense, it is the concepts and the concepts I run are the same whether I'm lining up in a 22 personnel I-Formation or lining up in a 10 personnel spread formation. IZ, OZ, Power/Counter, PA off of those and the same base pass concepts and screens. In some cases I may be in 10 personnel throwing 30 times, in others I may be in the I running 30 times. Some seasons I may be more spread, others more I but I need some sort of consistency to my play calling. I run into trouble offensively when I just try to do a bunch of random crap with no rhyme or reason.
bossplayer
New Member
It helps to just start with one personnel grouping and build from there. Trying to do too many groupings just lead to confusion so its probably best you run your spread I with one particular personnel and slowly add other personnel groupings.
Since we aren't changing the QBA slider from 10 to 5 until next season, I'm probably just going to run my version of an air raid at NIU. My QB is essentially immobile and I would rather get use out of these WRs with upper 90s catch ratings before I lose them. Once we get to the off-season and these guys graduate (both WR and both HB) plus QBA gets dropped back to 5, I'll dive back into my Spread-I. Depending on how this recruiting class shakes out, I will probably be in a situation next year where my best 5 skill position players are a HB, FB, TE and 2 WR which changes some things.
I've been toying with some different ways to get a FB involved in a spread offense and I'm kind of drawing a blank. Either you line him up at H-Back or you use a FB @ HB package to get him carries out of the backfield. There really isn't an in between. If I was running a spread triple offense, I could easily put him as the dive back and motion my HB in and out of the backfield but I'll still have the immobile 66 SPD QB next year.
I might have to see what a pro-style Spread-I might look like, but with the ability to jump under center and run some FB-centric stuff as well. Plenty of time to think about it though. Until next year, I'm going to run my stripped down air raid, mostly based out of Pistol. My UNC offense will be similar, except based out of the Gun so I can run my QB more.
I've been toying with some different ways to get a FB involved in a spread offense and I'm kind of drawing a blank. Either you line him up at H-Back or you use a FB @ HB package to get him carries out of the backfield. There really isn't an in between. If I was running a spread triple offense, I could easily put him as the dive back and motion my HB in and out of the backfield but I'll still have the immobile 66 SPD QB next year.
I might have to see what a pro-style Spread-I might look like, but with the ability to jump under center and run some FB-centric stuff as well. Plenty of time to think about it though. Until next year, I'm going to run my stripped down air raid, mostly based out of Pistol. My UNC offense will be similar, except based out of the Gun so I can run my QB more.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
QBA back to 5... that's great!
Not!!!
I freaking hate 5 qba! I understand what they're trying to accomplish but this is phucking EA! There is no reason a 96 accuracy qb should miss a slant by 15-20 yrds! I'll try but it may be the begining of the end for me in the dyn.
My biggest issue with 5 qba is... one qb starts off ok while the other is forced to struggle! In some cases until the 4th qtr.
Not!!!
I freaking hate 5 qba! I understand what they're trying to accomplish but this is phucking EA! There is no reason a 96 accuracy qb should miss a slant by 15-20 yrds! I'll try but it may be the begining of the end for me in the dyn.
My biggest issue with 5 qba is... one qb starts off ok while the other is forced to struggle! In some cases until the 4th qtr.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
It works pretty well for me. I mainly use twin te slot. Sometimes you can get to the edge bit others you have to cut it up. Jet doesn't work every time but it works most of the time and that's against the CPU. I think you can set it up better against a human opponent with morons.
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Twin TE Slot is my favorite formation, whether it is Gun or Pistol. Honestly that's true for real life as well. That formation is so deadly regardless of your offensive style or personnel. You have a decided run strength one way, but still have a 2x2 passing formation that has to be accounted for. Never mind the stuff you can do with motion. Move the H (Wing) across the formation, motion him out as a solo WR, motion the HB out as a solo WR.
I don't have the personnel for it right now but at some point I really want to run a Stanford pro-style/power run offense... from the Pistol/Gun. Putting extra TEs and OL on the field and run out of like Gun Ace/Ace Twins, Twin TE Slot/Wk, Heavy. I was really tempted to put a "Heavy" package in my offense at UNC this year because I am 3 deep at every OL position but the one game I had it in there I didn't use it even once. I'll get there some day.
I need to stop worrying about wanting to do everything and just focus on one very specific offensive style and build from there. Even going back and looking at my Spread-I playbook from last year it just seems so huge and almost too diverse.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
Yeah. My pistol book is only 15 formations. For my run game I only went with dive stretch and power. My passing game is only a handful of concepts. It is a slim book but I have been having a blast with it. I just wish I didn't hafta rely on the option so much to get my other backs the ball. I like the option to be a constraint play not a base one. And I meant motions not morons in my previous post.
I wish there were more plays for the 2nd back in the backfield in 2-back Pistol. The only ways to get another back the ball is option but I wish there was a way to run a quick dive or sweep or trap to the other back. Kind of like Off Tackle out of Train or Full House. Need more of those.
bossplayer
New Member
That's the way to go, one style at a time.
bossplayer
New Member
Try gun split offset mixed with 2 back pistol.
Last year I had a playbook where I ran tempo with 5 4-formation groupings. I had 4 formations that were 20 personnel, 4 that were 12 personnel, 4 that were 11 personnel and 4 that were 10 personnel and then 4 special formations. I liked being able to probe with 3-4 up-tempo plays in a row with one personnel set and then swap personnel and do it again with a different group. That was sort of the precursor to my Spread-I, which was just an expanded version.
My favorite series of plays in my Spread-I was actually out of 12 personnel. Twin TE Slot, Twin TE Slot Wk and Wildcat Wing using up-tempo. Could threaten every aspect of the defense with just 3 formations (plus the ability to audible to Slot F Wing). Helped having a quick QB who could run Power/Wildcat.
Based on @PaHsFootballRules's recommendation I went back and gave Pistol Jet a few more looks. It actually wasn't as bad as I remembered, especially out of Twin TE Slot but I'm not sure I want to go that route. My speed sweep WR is graduating and I don't have a replacement yet.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
I'm in Twin TE Slot probably for 70-80% of my games. Love it. Just wish there were more secondary run options like you said.
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Yeah there quite a few teams are running packaged concepts like that, but usually with a QB/HB mesh and then a pop pass or bubble screen. I liked KSU's wrinkle where it is just like QB Power/Stretch and if that defender comes up the QB just dumps it over him. Great little wrinkle. Kind of like the Tebow jump pass.
I really, really wish there was an Empty Twin TE formation in the game. Something like this:
--------X-----------------------------OOOOOY---------
------------------Z---------T-----------------H--------
-----------------------------------------Q-------------
Have the ability to run QB Power/Counter, Jet, Fk Jet Power/Counter, motion the tailback into the backfield and run your usual plays, throw bubble. That fake QB Power/TE pop pass packaged play KSU was running. Really anything you could ever want.
The closest thing to that formation in the game is Wildcat Trips Over which is:
-------------------------------YOOOOO--Z----------------
-------X---------T-------------------H--------------------
----------------------------------Q------------------------
That formation would be close enough if it had any other plays in it except Jet/Jet Power/Jet Counter/PA Jet.
Figured I would bring this up for discussion since I'm kind of going through this dilemma right now:
Strong Power (Pistol)
or
Buck Sweep (Gun)
Does anyone have a preference? I've been testing both out from a variety of formations and I'm not really sure. I always defaulted to Gun because that's just what has been in my playbook but the more I run Strong Power, the more I like it.
I feel like Gun Buck Sweep gets a lot more east-west flow from the defense and it is easier to outflank the defense with numbers. If the defense overshifts in anticipation of Buck Sweep, those Gun sets also allow for better complimentary plays like HB Counter, IZ Split or QB Wrap (depending on formation). The down side of the Gun version is that it is way more susceptible to run through and backside pursuit. If there is run through, the play is over. The back gets started slower and there is no opportunity to cut up the field until you get outside the formation. Another downside to Buck Sweep is that you can only run it one direction out of limited formations. If you're in Buck Sweep and the defense has extra defenders to that side, you better have a good audible equipped.
With Pistol Strong Power, the defense has to play it straight up so there is no east-west flow and thus there really aren't any complimentary plays. The defense can't overshift one way or the other because the play can be flipped at the line of scrimmage and the back's alignment doesn't telegraph the play. There is still run through and backside pursuit, but the HB's animation takes him straight upfield with speed so if there is run through, you can get straight north and south. If the OL holds up, it is easy to get lateral and bounce to daylight. Pistol Strong Power has the additional benefit of being in just about every one back Pistol formation and it can be run to either side of the formation, including away from a TE if the defense shifts towards the strength of the formation. That kind of makes it so that Strong Power has its own misdirection/counter play built it.
It seems like Buck Sweep is a more traditional sweep play in the game, almost like Jet Sweep with lead blocking. Try and beat the defense to the edge and go. Strong Power behaves a bit more like a Belly G play with the backside guard replacing what would be a FB in the I-Formation. You are getting straight north and south at the first possible moment, sometimes that is right up the middle behind the blocks, sometimes you have to bounce it.
Both seem to have strengths and weaknesses and would probably depend a lot on the rest of the offense but I'm coming around hard towards Pistol.
Strong Power (Pistol)
or
Buck Sweep (Gun)
Does anyone have a preference? I've been testing both out from a variety of formations and I'm not really sure. I always defaulted to Gun because that's just what has been in my playbook but the more I run Strong Power, the more I like it.
I feel like Gun Buck Sweep gets a lot more east-west flow from the defense and it is easier to outflank the defense with numbers. If the defense overshifts in anticipation of Buck Sweep, those Gun sets also allow for better complimentary plays like HB Counter, IZ Split or QB Wrap (depending on formation). The down side of the Gun version is that it is way more susceptible to run through and backside pursuit. If there is run through, the play is over. The back gets started slower and there is no opportunity to cut up the field until you get outside the formation. Another downside to Buck Sweep is that you can only run it one direction out of limited formations. If you're in Buck Sweep and the defense has extra defenders to that side, you better have a good audible equipped.
With Pistol Strong Power, the defense has to play it straight up so there is no east-west flow and thus there really aren't any complimentary plays. The defense can't overshift one way or the other because the play can be flipped at the line of scrimmage and the back's alignment doesn't telegraph the play. There is still run through and backside pursuit, but the HB's animation takes him straight upfield with speed so if there is run through, you can get straight north and south. If the OL holds up, it is easy to get lateral and bounce to daylight. Pistol Strong Power has the additional benefit of being in just about every one back Pistol formation and it can be run to either side of the formation, including away from a TE if the defense shifts towards the strength of the formation. That kind of makes it so that Strong Power has its own misdirection/counter play built it.
It seems like Buck Sweep is a more traditional sweep play in the game, almost like Jet Sweep with lead blocking. Try and beat the defense to the edge and go. Strong Power behaves a bit more like a Belly G play with the backside guard replacing what would be a FB in the I-Formation. You are getting straight north and south at the first possible moment, sometimes that is right up the middle behind the blocks, sometimes you have to bounce it.
Both seem to have strengths and weaknesses and would probably depend a lot on the rest of the offense but I'm coming around hard towards Pistol.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
Welcome to the dark side!
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
I have them both in my playbook. I agree with your general comments. I would also add that on the Buck Sweeps it seems like the pulling OLs are more hit and miss in terms of getting their hats on a defender in the alley than they are on Strong Power.
I should add that I run the plays differently in terms of my maneuvering with the RB. On Strong Power, I definitely take a couple steps upfield at a slight angle to the playside, then bounce it out (getting more parallel with the LOS for several steps) behind the blocking. On Buck Sweep, I move parallel with the LOS at the snap of the ball and then watch for the need/opportunity to cut upfield as soon as the first lead blocker passes the playside tackle.
One other difference: I've found that Buck sweep is almost always lousy against 3-3 fronts, while Strong Power seems to be able to deal with them a bit.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I'm going to look into this!
Running strong pwr from pistol would fit my scheme better. In gun it seems everyone expects buck sweep even when you haven't run it!
Pistol might give me more bubble screen options also? I run everything from SG normal/hb wk/wing/flex etc... not many bubble screens in those formations. I may need to add A SG spread formation also...
Running strong pwr from pistol would fit my scheme better. In gun it seems everyone expects buck sweep even when you haven't run it!
Pistol might give me more bubble screen options also? I run everything from SG normal/hb wk/wing/flex etc... not many bubble screens in those formations. I may need to add A SG spread formation also...
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Your last sentence is a huge thing for me. I see a lot of 3-3 and Buck Sweep is pretty much useless. The blocking gets all screwed up, the overhang safety and/or corner to that side seem to eat up the entire play despite being absurdly undersized vs pulling OL. Usually if you get big OL pulling and blocking corners and safeties, good things are happening. In this game where 170 pounds is the same as 320 pounds, it stops Buck Sweep cold. Strong power at least gets you north-south quicker and there should ("should") be a pretty huge cutback lane vs a 3-3.
I aim my back the same way as you. Strong Power it is like 2 steps upfield and then get almost straight parallel to stretch it. I treat Strong Power almost like I would HB Stretch/Outside Zone out of Ace or the I, it is a bounce play for me. Those first few upfield steps really help the blockers engage. At worst, if a force player blows up the field and cuts the play off, at least you're going down hill and can power into the line and hope for a few yards. With Buck Sweep, if a force player gets up field, you're screwed. With Buck I always stay flat laterally and then make one hard cut if a hole comes up. The benefit of that is that you are less likely to run into your guard or get caught up in traffic, the down side is that you might out run your blocking.
I wish Buck Sweep were properly designed the down blocks and a crack on the linebacker. That would make it a lot more helpful. As designed, it is pretty much a glorified Jet Sweep type of play.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
So in my downtime during the season I made a new playbook that's majority shotgun formations. It looked really good against @bruin228 but I haven't had a chance to use it against any other users. Not sure if it's truly spread, but I was in Gun for at least 65% of my snaps in that game so I'll call it that. Besides, I don't even know that labeling offenses means anything anymore.
It's primarily one back (probably 90% of my snaps) with a few two back sets thrown in for certain situations/have another look available. Since playing bruin I've installed a couple of Pistol sets along with Offset gun, both of which I've never done previously. Even ended up getting the playbook ordered exactly how I wanted (Ace first, then Empty, etc) which was neat.
Ace:
Jumbo Pair
Big
Big Close
Big Twins
Twin TE
Slot
Y-Trips
Bunch
Spread
Empty:
Flex Trips
I-Form:
Normal
Twins Flex
Tight
Strong I:
Close
Pistol:
Full House
Ace
Shotgun:
Split Offset
Ace Twins
Twin TE Slot WK
Normal WK
Wing Trips WK
Trips Over
Bunch
Bunch TE
Tight Slots
Spread
Trips Open
Trey 4WR
Empty Trey
Empty Quads
I put in Pistol Ace in large part for this play. That, and I really like a couple of the drop back and play action passes available. I like being able to flip the run either direction and have even surfaces both way (kind of why I've always preferred 2X2 to 3X1 IRL anyway).
As for Buck Sweep, I'm sure you already know this but the play isn't blocked correctly from shotgun. I coach for a team who's run game is based on the Wing T: long story short when we run Buck we always motion a WR or Wing to block down on the DE to the play side. Having said that, I've found that Buck is more effective to a wing surface like Wing Trips as opposed to Y-Trips.
Here's a question I have for you (or anyone else): what's your opinion on what running plays to utilize from Full House and Ace in Pistol? I love HB Sweep and Strong Power, respectively, but should I go with Zone or Slam from Full House? How about Dive or Slam in Ace? And since I know you always try to do an annual recreation of Tom Osborne's offense, how about under center singleback runs? So far I've stuck to Inside Zone Weak and Outside Zone as my only two runs. I choice IZ to the tightest technique while I often do the opposite with OZ. Is it worth putting in one back power or counter for odd fronts? Or are they pretty much worthless?
Generally speaking I want to keep my run game as concise as possible. I'm a big zone guy IRL, so that's what I've been leaning towards. Any help would be appreciated.
It's primarily one back (probably 90% of my snaps) with a few two back sets thrown in for certain situations/have another look available. Since playing bruin I've installed a couple of Pistol sets along with Offset gun, both of which I've never done previously. Even ended up getting the playbook ordered exactly how I wanted (Ace first, then Empty, etc) which was neat.
Ace:
Jumbo Pair
Big
Big Close
Big Twins
Twin TE
Slot
Y-Trips
Bunch
Spread
Empty:
Flex Trips
I-Form:
Normal
Twins Flex
Tight
Strong I:
Close
Pistol:
Full House
Ace
Shotgun:
Split Offset
Ace Twins
Twin TE Slot WK
Normal WK
Wing Trips WK
Trips Over
Bunch
Bunch TE
Tight Slots
Spread
Trips Open
Trey 4WR
Empty Trey
Empty Quads
I put in Pistol Ace in large part for this play. That, and I really like a couple of the drop back and play action passes available. I like being able to flip the run either direction and have even surfaces both way (kind of why I've always preferred 2X2 to 3X1 IRL anyway).
As for Buck Sweep, I'm sure you already know this but the play isn't blocked correctly from shotgun. I coach for a team who's run game is based on the Wing T: long story short when we run Buck we always motion a WR or Wing to block down on the DE to the play side. Having said that, I've found that Buck is more effective to a wing surface like Wing Trips as opposed to Y-Trips.
Here's a question I have for you (or anyone else): what's your opinion on what running plays to utilize from Full House and Ace in Pistol? I love HB Sweep and Strong Power, respectively, but should I go with Zone or Slam from Full House? How about Dive or Slam in Ace? And since I know you always try to do an annual recreation of Tom Osborne's offense, how about under center singleback runs? So far I've stuck to Inside Zone Weak and Outside Zone as my only two runs. I choice IZ to the tightest technique while I often do the opposite with OZ. Is it worth putting in one back power or counter for odd fronts? Or are they pretty much worthless?
Generally speaking I want to keep my run game as concise as possible. I'm a big zone guy IRL, so that's what I've been leaning towards. Any help would be appreciated.
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When I do my Osborne offense, my under center plays are limited to Inside Zone (Zone Wk or Blast/Slam), Outside Zone (Stretch), Counter and Draw/Lead Draw. Plus option. Occasionally there will be a special play like Counter Trap in Ace Big that I'll put in but my entire run game in the Osborne offense are those plays. I like Counter far more than Power, it is blocked better in just about every formation and the misdirection step from the back seems to time it up nicely. Power, both one back and two back, always seems to get jammed up. The pulling guard gets hung up or there is run through that beats him or the back runs up his back. It's great when it works but that's not often.
The one thing I do add in my Osborne offense is Toss, which is something you might want to look into. I love Toss, especially out of two back I. The Lead Toss that is in Twins Flex is absolutely filthy because the slot actually is assigned to crack a linebacker. Weak Toss in I Tight is another one. Weak Toss in I Y Trips is probably my favorite play in the offense. Toss plus Counter added in should get you enough to handle just about everything you might face.
When it comes to plays in Pistol Full House, it honestly depends on the rest of my playbook. In my Spread-I, I have enough "traditional" runs to where Pistol Full House is exclusively an option formation for me. In an offense like an air raid or something more balanced, I love having Counter/Slam/Zone in Full House because that turns into my short yardage formation. Dive in Ace, or any Pistol formation, is a frustrating play because the backside DL is never blocked and that seems to be where the cutback lane is. I would prefer Slam when available.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
Sounds like what I've done as well with singleback sets, although I haven't tried Slam at all. Will give that a shot at some point. Hopefully that's a more effective play against Odd fronts than Zone WK is, as those defenses can sometimes frustrate me when I want to run the ball from singleback.
Agree completely about the Toss from Twins Flex. That's a big reason I put that set in over regular Twins, honestly. It's great to either side: just have to pick where to go based on numbers. Any thoughts on singleback toss plays? I run Crack Toss from Bunch obviously (awesome play to pull out on a 3rd and medium once in awhile) but nothing else.
I'll stick with Slam for Pistol Ace. As for Full House, if you had to pick only one of Counter/Slam/Zone WK, which direction would you go? I could put all three in, but I would prefer to limit both Pistol formations I use to six plays apiece: four passes and two runs per set.
Ideally you would have both Zone and Counter but if you had to just pick one, I would probably stick with Zone. It gives you the most flexibility and probably fits with the rest of the offense.
Singleback toss plays are iffy. Ace Twins has HB Power which is a toss play, that is a decent play but for the most part I avoid toss plays from singleback sets. Just seems like no blockers get to the edge and it is just your back getting swarmed.
Pistol Trio or Trio Offset? It's not really deep enough to be Pistol but Harvin is right behind Tebow.
You probably want Trio Offset. Most of what they did out of 3x1 closed trips can be replicated in Trio Offset. For the most part they were always offset and ran Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Zone Read, Veer, Veer Triple (with the slot motioned into the backfield) and Speed Option with the back offset towards trips but the option run away from trips towards the TE. Occasionally they would line up in a really tight Pistol alignment with the back no more than a yard behind Tebow to run Belly/Iso, Lead Draw and a PA off that Pistol look. You can replicate the majority of that out of Trio Offset.
I would assume the play in the picture was some sort of screen pass or swing pass to Harvin. They very rarely put the back at 8 yards unless they needed a better throwing angle for the lefty Tebow on swings. They did have a pretty great counter sweep play off of that deep Pistol alignment as well, but didn't run it often.
Meyer didn't really get too deep into Pistol until '09 and at Ohio State. If you really wanted to get cute, you could put both in your playbook. Make one audible Trio Offset Read and another like Trio Offset Speed Option or Trap. Start in Pistol with dive or something called and then audible and jump shift the back to offset.
Meyer loves him some closed trips to the boundary though. Especially Speed Option. Look at how LSU aligned to that formation, Speed Option towards the field/TE would be a huge gain. 4 defenders, 4 blockers plus an option.
Yup, you're correct, it was a swing pass out to the field.
I put in both right now but we'll see how it goes. I have a completely full playbook right now with a bunch of different formations. They really liked to switch it up though, I watched this entire game and wrote down what they lined up (as close as I could get in the game) and they used something like 25 formations in this game, though they went to the Trio formations a lot as well as things like Empty Trey Flex.
Probably the best thing I can say about Urban Meyer as a coach is that he gets the most out of players and puts them in the best spot to use their talent. That year it was like Harvin, Demps and Rainey and all ran like the wind so there was a lot of quick hitting stuff and then all of a sudden they'd run Jet or outside zone or pitch it out to one of those guys on the perimeter and you had no shot.
In those Florida years, especially '08, Meyer would run a TON of compressed stuff between the 20s and then spread it out once the team got in the redzone. Obviously you can do that when you have a fullback playing quarterback, half a dozen all world sprinters and the insanely athletic murderer at TE. If you watch some '09 Florida stuff you'll start to see a bit more legit Pistol, especially to run Speed Option. Obviously he's gone a lot more Pistol at OSU but I think that's a reflection of the different type of talent at Tailback.
I've been toying with the idea of a Florida-era Urban Meyer type of offense at UNC in BSCFL. After the debacle with Ram, I realized very quickly that a 4 and 5 WR passing offense wasn't going to fly. In that case, I would probably run more traditional shotgun just so I could have stuff like QB Power/Wrap/Blast.
Yeah, I'm running this Meyer offense in my offline spread dynasty since I'm now at a new school. It's been mixed thus far lol. I have a 94 OVR QB but he can't run very well and he's thrown 7 or 8 picks in the first 2 1/2 games so I dumped him in favor of a more Tebow-like QB (77 OVR as a FR(RS)). It seems like it wouldn't matter at all in a video game and maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me but it does seem like certain players despite having high ratings are pretty awful in the games. I've had highly rated QBs like this guy that throw a bunch of INTs with and highly rated guys at RB that I don't feel very good running the ball with.
No, it's definitely true. I think QBs have a very odd equation that jacks up their overall rating despite equal or lesser skills. Awareness is a huge part of that, I don't think awareness matters at all to a user controlled QB but it is the biggest part of the QB rating. I'd always choose the better athlete to play QB unless he was just an incompetent passer.
I've been thinking about doing an offline dynasty just to play with some sliders and work on some things offensively.
Well I started that offline dynasty, as an offensive coordinator at 1* Wyoming. I didn't even look at the roster, I just picked the most random 1* team I could. Probably a mistake but whatever, gotta start somewhere. Pretty much running a full on air raid there. 4-5 WR, primary run game is Speed Option with a little QB Blast/Power despite a mid-70s speed QB. He's a better overall runner than my HB. Lead the nation in passing, dead last in the nation in rushing, lead the nation in giveaways. 3-3 record. Very tough slider set, even with QBA 10. I swear I'm giving the ball away 5 times a game on average, I think I had an 8 turnover game at one point. Despite being 1* with tough recruiting settings, I'm actually recruiting fairly well there. Not sure if I'm recruiting well enough to stick around if I get another job offer but we'll see.
I like doing OC only. Games seem to go quicker, don't need to worry about playing defense which is dull as hell vs the CPU. I'm not sure I would even take a HC job unless it was at a school I really wanted to be. I might just go through this dynasty as a career coordinator. I just want to recruit and play offense and try some things out.
I like doing OC only. Games seem to go quicker, don't need to worry about playing defense which is dull as hell vs the CPU. I'm not sure I would even take a HC job unless it was at a school I really wanted to be. I might just go through this dynasty as a career coordinator. I just want to recruit and play offense and try some things out.
I need some real good sliders I'm the OC at Army in my offline and heismen everything with slow recruiting progress and I'm still having my way with the CPU.... For this first year I'm not recruiting either.... If we make a bowl game I'll recruit the next year kinda as an incentive/promotion for doing well....if we don't then I'm still just a OC
PaHsFootballRules
Member
@TXHusker05,
I am doing the same thing as an OC with AFA and Army. I am currently using the OS sliders without Navy's tweaks and I am destroying teams in my AFA dynasty (a pistol spread offense) and am struggling big time with Army (more of a prostyle option offense). I feel like these sliders were more designed for a prostyle game than spread. I too will tweak these for my AFA dynasty, but the difficulty seems just right for my Army one.
@Atmore what happened to the dynasty?
I am doing the same thing as an OC with AFA and Army. I am currently using the OS sliders without Navy's tweaks and I am destroying teams in my AFA dynasty (a pistol spread offense) and am struggling big time with Army (more of a prostyle option offense). I feel like these sliders were more designed for a prostyle game than spread. I too will tweak these for my AFA dynasty, but the difficulty seems just right for my Army one.
@Atmore what happened to the dynasty?
Schauwn
Well-Known Member
@TXHusker05
I'm confused at how you're loosing games. I just started up a dynasty last night with those sliders (but with User QBA at 5) because you said the game was playing challenging. First game of the season I beat Ohio State with San Jose State, 34-17 and racked up over 200 yards rushing from the Pistol, Ace, and Gun (Trying out a OneBack playbook). Not much read option in it, but IZ, OZ, and sweeps. My QB was 18-20, 2 TDs.
Maybe I'm missing something, I know SJSU is rated slightly better than Wyo, but I also know you spend a lot more time with the game, so I'm just surprised to see you 3-3 with these sliders. Maybe I'll start another offline with ODU or something and throw the ball and see what happens.
I'm confused at how you're loosing games. I just started up a dynasty last night with those sliders (but with User QBA at 5) because you said the game was playing challenging. First game of the season I beat Ohio State with San Jose State, 34-17 and racked up over 200 yards rushing from the Pistol, Ace, and Gun (Trying out a OneBack playbook). Not much read option in it, but IZ, OZ, and sweeps. My QB was 18-20, 2 TDs.
Maybe I'm missing something, I know SJSU is rated slightly better than Wyo, but I also know you spend a lot more time with the game, so I'm just surprised to see you 3-3 with these sliders. Maybe I'll start another offline with ODU or something and throw the ball and see what happens.
My bad man more people were already added
PaHsFootballRules
Member
Damn. Was looking forward to it.
A lot of it is defense. Playing only as the OC leaves you at the mercy of CPU controlled defense and special teams. I think our kicker is only hitting like 50% of his field goals and the defense is like 112th overall in pass D. I'm turning the ball over a lot offensively which isn't helping but 2 of the losses 4 losses I had this year were late defensive let downs. The other 2 were Oregon and Michigan State on the road.
Me trying to run air raid is probably helping make things more difficult than they should be. I'm a terrible passer and have thrown like 30 INTs. If I were running my usual offense, I'd probably have a better go of it. I finished the regular season last night, finishing 9-4. I won my division by beating #18 Utah State and Heisman finalist Chuckie Keeton in OT and then won the MWC championship over Nevada on a hail mary with 4 seconds left. Just the bowl game vs UCLA to go. I've only had a few games that were blowouts, one loss vs Oregon and one win over Hawaii. The rest were all really tight battles.
I am recruiting absurdly well at Wyoming though which is a little weird for a 1* team. The one tweak I made to the sliders was dropping CPU pass coverage down from 55 to 50. There was a lot of route mirroring at 55 and 5 speed threshold. I might tweak a few more sliders to make offense a bit tougher. Even with QBA 10 and HFA On I doubt I'm completing more than 60% of my passes.
UPDATE: Played my bowl game and absolutely crushed 7-5 UCLA 49-21 in the Las Vegas Bowl. That was unexpected. My offense dominated that game. Ran 62 plays, 54 of them passes. Completed 48 of 54 for 553 yards, 6 TD, all by my Senior QB. He added a TD on the ground. My top WR caught 19 passes for 226 yards and 4 TD and slot WR caught 12 for 130. Unfortunately my top 4 WR are Seniors. That game was crazy. 20:11 Time of possession.
Wyoming finishes the season 10-4. SR QB Cam Coffman finishes with the school single season records for Rushing TD (17) and Passing Yards (5229). SR WR Dominic Rufran finishes with the school single season records for receptions (112) and receiving yards (1774).
Final stats:
Cam Coffman threw 398 of 605 for 5229 yards, 33 TD, 38 INT (lol). He also ran 160 times for 712 yards and 17 TD.
Dominic Rufran caught 112 passes for 1774 yards, 16 TD. Trent Sewell caught 91 passes for 1128 yards and 7 TD. Jalen Claiborne caught 89 for 1112 and 10 TD.
As a team, I ran 987 plays, 679 passes and 308 rushes so I threw on 69% of my plays from scrimmage. I led the nation in total yards (8420), total offense (7273, by over 1100 yards), and passing (5726). Of course, I was also -42 in turnover differential and the next worst team was -18. That's god awful. 41 INT, 15 fumbles for 61 giveaways.
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The coaching carousel in offline ODs is crazy. I have never done this before.
So many coaching changes were made. My HC Craig Bohl left to be the HC at Pitt, I thought I would get promoted to HC but they hired Bill Legg from Marshall so I'm going to look for another job. I have been a candidate for the HC jobs at Southern Miss, Wyoming, Wake, ULL and Toledo. No one offered. Instead I got offered the Offensive Coordinator job at Nebraska to replace Tim Beck and I accepted. Nebraska is coming off a Rose Bowl win over Oregon.
EDIT: Blah, I probably should have just stayed at Wyoming. This Nebraska team is loaded and after training ended up as 99-99-99 across the board. That's going to be way too easy. I don't think there are any slider tweaks I can do to make the game difficult with a team that good.
So many coaching changes were made. My HC Craig Bohl left to be the HC at Pitt, I thought I would get promoted to HC but they hired Bill Legg from Marshall so I'm going to look for another job. I have been a candidate for the HC jobs at Southern Miss, Wyoming, Wake, ULL and Toledo. No one offered. Instead I got offered the Offensive Coordinator job at Nebraska to replace Tim Beck and I accepted. Nebraska is coming off a Rose Bowl win over Oregon.
EDIT: Blah, I probably should have just stayed at Wyoming. This Nebraska team is loaded and after training ended up as 99-99-99 across the board. That's going to be way too easy. I don't think there are any slider tweaks I can do to make the game difficult with a team that good.
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I am starting to wish there were more unbalanced formations in the game. There are a couple under center but I would love a formation that was like:
------------Y-G-C-G-T-T--------------X---
Z---------H-------------------------------
--------------T-Q-------------------------
Have the passing strength to the left with Z-H-Y and a tackle over to have a decided run strength.
I suppose in theory I can use formation subs to do it, take like Y Trips Wk and go:
X-------------Y-G-C-G-T-T-----------------
---------------------------------A-------Z-
-----------------T-Q----------------------
But that would cause a lot of issues going up tempo and obviously the Y isn't an eligible receiver in that formation. If I wasn't worried about having an eligible TE, I could do it, but then what would the point of even putting the TE on the field be?
There is always Wildcat formations but I was hoping to have some traditional plays available as well.
------------Y-G-C-G-T-T--------------X---
Z---------H-------------------------------
--------------T-Q-------------------------
Have the passing strength to the left with Z-H-Y and a tackle over to have a decided run strength.
I suppose in theory I can use formation subs to do it, take like Y Trips Wk and go:
X-------------Y-G-C-G-T-T-----------------
---------------------------------A-------Z-
-----------------T-Q----------------------
But that would cause a lot of issues going up tempo and obviously the Y isn't an eligible receiver in that formation. If I wasn't worried about having an eligible TE, I could do it, but then what would the point of even putting the TE on the field be?
There is always Wildcat formations but I was hoping to have some traditional plays available as well.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
There is a pretty cool unbalanced formation in Pistol that I like, in theory. It doesn't unbalance the line, but with two TEs and both receivers to one side, it is clearly quite unbalanced.
I would really like for it to work for me, but the problem I have is that the defense almost always lines up in a crazy and unintuitive way against the play. I would normally expect a defense to put numbers on the strong side and leave the weak side relatively open. Instead, the CPU generally stacks the weak side and brings crazy pressure against it. You'd think you could just run an OZ to the Strong Side against that strategy and it would be an automatic huge gain, but that just isn't the case, at least not for me.
If any of you guys have any tips on what works and what is clearly broke dick out of this formation, I'd appreciate it.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
Power works well from this formation for me. Make sure you read your blocks tho.There is a pretty cool unbalanced formation in Pistol that I like, in theory. It doesn't unbalance the line, but with two TEs and both receivers to one side, it is clearly quite unbalanced.
I would really like for it to work for me, but the problem I have is that the defense almost always lines up in a crazy and unintuitive way against the play. I would normally expect a defense to put numbers on the strong side and leave the weak side relatively open. Instead, the CPU generally stacks the weak side and brings crazy pressure against it. You'd think you could just run an OZ to the Strong Side against that strategy and it would be an automatic huge gain, but that just isn't the case, at least not for me.
If any of you guys have any tips on what works and what is clearly broke dick out of this formation, I'd appreciate it.
There is a pretty cool unbalanced formation in Pistol that I like, in theory. It doesn't unbalance the line, but with two TEs and both receivers to one side, it is clearly quite unbalanced.
I would really like for it to work for me, but the problem I have is that the defense almost always lines up in a crazy and unintuitive way against the play. I would normally expect a defense to put numbers on the strong side and leave the weak side relatively open. Instead, the CPU generally stacks the weak side and brings crazy pressure against it. You'd think you could just run an OZ to the Strong Side against that strategy and it would be an automatic huge gain, but that just isn't the case, at least not for me.
If any of you guys have any tips on what works and what is clearly broke dick out of this formation, I'd appreciate it.
That's a big part of the problem, the defense aligns in the screwiest ways against unbalanced sets. I notice it a lot in Pistol Train. Any time I line up in Pistol Train, the defense lines up with like 4 or 5 defenders to the weak side of the formation. Obviously that makes it easy to run Stretch, Power and Power Option to the strong side but it takes away a play like Triple Option which can only be run weak.
I was planning on adding Wing Over in my newest playbook just to have a formation like that. In my case I would put a FB at that 2nd TE spot and treat him like a wing H-Back. I've been doing that with Pistol Twin TE, Twin TE Slot and Wing Trips TE and had some success with it. Might see what Wing Over can add to the offense. The alignment issues don't seem to be an issue in user v user games but it is certainly frustrating against the CPU.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
I love Pistol Wing Trips TE as my power running formation. Often I will motion the Wing TE to the weak side and run stretch as he reaches the right tackle's outside hip. Depending on the blocking you can take it outside, cut it up into the play side B gap or bust off a huge cutback to the back side. If the defense aligns with an overhang defender on that side, I will flip the play to the wing side, audible to a dive, or audible to Twin TE Slot -PA Power O (if I am facing a single high safety look). I also have Strong Power and Zone Read to sprinkle in there.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
I have learned to love Pistol! I have given up on trying to create a Wing T offense and instead have created something more akin to Joe Gibb's East Coast Offenses (one back with an h-back). Of course I use a healthy dose of Jet to keep other people involved. But it has been a blast to run!
My little Pistol Twin TE, Twin TE Slot, Wing Trips TE, Wing Over series of plays has been fairly effective. I put a FB at the wing in one of those formations and then a WR at the wing in another and a 2nd TE in another. That way I can base in 1 and then use no huddle to get to the others with the personnel I want. I've mostly been using that series to run Strong Power, Counter and Stretch but I'll probably start working in some Zone Read, even with a slow QB I think I can get enough of a gain on a keep read to have it work.
If you've got a big WR that can block a little or a really good pass catching TE, you can do so many things with that guy as a wing. I love lining up in Twin TE Slot and motioning that guy out wide, there's usually a huge mismatch there with either a safety or LB on him. A simple quick slant to that guy is easy money. Gun Twin TE Slot is even better because you can motion the on the line TE wide and get your wing lined up vs a slot defender.
I'm working on diversifying my offense a bit. I'm starting to face a lot of exotic looks against my Spread-I and I don't have many answers for it. I want to start using more motion and weird personnel packages. Focus on a few smaller series of plays out of a variety of looks. I've got one package in mind out of Spread Offset where I put HBs in the slot, a FB in the backfield and TEs split wide. Just use the formation to run option, jet, trap, bubble. Not sure what else to do with that personnel package, but it's one option. I imagine someone seeing 32 personnel would come out in base D.
I have been trying to use Pistol and I just can't get the running down.... Pistol Ace Normal(2te 2wr) I think it is has been my best formation but when running inside the tackles the blocks set up but the back seems to move slow....do you tap speed burst on hand off? Do you lay off completely? Do you wait til a ccertain point? Any tips would be appreciated
PaHsFootballRules
Member
I never run IZ (Zone) out of Pistol. It just seems so slow. Dive or Slam hits quicker and I never touch speed burst unless I am in the open. Dive and slam are still zone plays by EA's standards and if the designed hole isn't there there is almost always a cutback or bounce.
@TXHusker05. I love using the same personnel groupings in my wing formations. I have been reading up on a lot of H-Back offenses. Two coaches I really enjoy reading about are Will Compton and James Vint. Compton is a HS coach in Texas that uses H-Backs and TEs in his pistol attack. James Vint is considered a pistol guru of sorts and was coaching at Iowa-Wesleyan, but not sure if he still is. What I really like about Vint and Compton is that they use their H-Backs as ball carriers not just blockers/pass catchers. I also have been reading a lot of Bill Mountjoy's interpretation of Joe Gibbs's offense and most of the concepts apply to NCAA. The nice thing about Mountjoy is that his offense is intended for HS and is quite easy to digest and use.
So in my offense I have 2-3 run threats (3-4 if I have a mobile QB) in any set I put on the field. Any set that is 11 personnel I have my H-Back as my tailback so I can spread the carries around equally. This has been a blast to use with formations, motions and shifts against the CPU. I see no reason why it wouldn't be effect against users as well.
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