JSU Zack
How do I IT?
There's one in Ace Normal Flex. That's the only one I know of.
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Spread Offense
- Thread starter JSU Zack
- Start date
There's one in Ace Normal Flex. That's the only one I know of.
I have always taken that play out of my playbooks because any time it is in there it is the default quick run audible and I always wanted HB Dive there. I might put it in and see if it works to get me to the edge. I'm thinking that I should switch things up and base out of outside zone so that my interior run game can be my changeup, rather base out of inside zone and then look to get outside later in games.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
I have been working on my Modified Auburn book a lot and have figured out a few things that work exceptionally well for me.
My book has 8 formations using 11 personnel and two formations using 20 personnel. I also have three Pistol sets using 12 personnel and 6 Shotgun formations using 10 personnel, plus a 5WR gun formation and Wildcat Y-Trips. But I use the personnel groupings below about two thirds of the time.
11 Personnel Group (all Shotgun):
EMPTY SPREAD
NORMAL
NORMAL FLEX WING
NORMAL FLEX WING WK
NORMAL WING OFFSET
WING OFFSET WK
WING TRIPS OFFSET
WING TRIPS OFFSET WK
20 Personnel (both Pistol):
WING OFFSET
STRONG SLOT
Although they are different personnel groups, I think of them as the same because I will often swap to a TE in the backfield in the Pistol sets. And Pistol Strong Slot is the only one of those formations where an audible call causes a dumb shift by the CPU (will often move FB to the slot and WR3 to the H-back/"sniffer back" position).
I have used four out of my five custom audibles for plays in these formations. They are:
SHOTGUN WING OFFSET WK - POWER O
SHOTGUN WING TRIPS OFFSET WK - Y LEAD READ OPTION
PISTOL WING OFFSET - Z SPOT
SHOTGUN EMPTY SPREAD - BUBBLE SCREEN
So the key things that I have learned that makes my play calling difficult to defend are the following:
1) If I always come out in a base play with the WR3 (slot) aligned to the right, I can swap into one of my custom audibles extremely quickly, generally with an extremely quick and smooth backfield shift by the H-back and/or running back.
2) By highlighting the H-back often before I snap the ball, I can disguise whether the play has designated H-back motion pre-snap, whether I am manually repositiong the H-back (which I do sometimes, particularly for certain PA passes) or whether I am changing plays with an audible. An extremely aware opponent may be able to get some cues from what I am doing, but this bit of disguise makes it more difficult for him and if he focuses on it too much it is going to bite him big-time.
3) By taking some care that I come out in play that attacks a different area of the defensive front with different action than my audibles (and formation audibles) I can attack whatever part of the front looks most vulnerable after some very quick adjustments.
The big key is that my formation run audible in PISTOL WING OFFSET is STRETCH. So that gives me outside zone to the right (I have also figured out where to landmark my ballcarrier path in that run vs. various fronts, which helps a great deal). The formation run audible for both SHOTGUN WING OFFSET WK and WING TRIPS OFFSET WK is INSIDE ZONE SPLIT (a play I don't love, but can be effective if run properly). So I always have an inside zone run available with one or two audibles. I have a good version of POWER O available and I have a Zone read with an arc block to the weak side with Y LEAD READ OPTION. So if I come out in something like SHOTGUN NORMAL FLEX WING with the COUNTER play, flipped with the slot WR to the right, I have my called COUNTER, I have DIVE as the default formation run audible and I have all my other run audibles available. I can shift into them very quickly and either disguise my shifts by highlighting the H-back or not. And I have some pretty potent passing options available through the formation audibles that I have managed to crowbar into these formations by trial and error.
If my opponent shows big time pressure to the weak side of my formation or shows blitz with both safeties, I can audible into the empty BUBBLE SCREEN. Most users are going to re-adjust when I do that, but if they don't that can turn into a huge play really quick, even running it into the boundary side.
Maybe this stuff is elementary for you guys who have been running the Auburn style spread for a while, but for me getting these audibles set up just right has been a game changer.
My book has 8 formations using 11 personnel and two formations using 20 personnel. I also have three Pistol sets using 12 personnel and 6 Shotgun formations using 10 personnel, plus a 5WR gun formation and Wildcat Y-Trips. But I use the personnel groupings below about two thirds of the time.
11 Personnel Group (all Shotgun):
EMPTY SPREAD
NORMAL
NORMAL FLEX WING
NORMAL FLEX WING WK
NORMAL WING OFFSET
WING OFFSET WK
WING TRIPS OFFSET
WING TRIPS OFFSET WK
20 Personnel (both Pistol):
WING OFFSET
STRONG SLOT
Although they are different personnel groups, I think of them as the same because I will often swap to a TE in the backfield in the Pistol sets. And Pistol Strong Slot is the only one of those formations where an audible call causes a dumb shift by the CPU (will often move FB to the slot and WR3 to the H-back/"sniffer back" position).
I have used four out of my five custom audibles for plays in these formations. They are:
SHOTGUN WING OFFSET WK - POWER O
SHOTGUN WING TRIPS OFFSET WK - Y LEAD READ OPTION
PISTOL WING OFFSET - Z SPOT
SHOTGUN EMPTY SPREAD - BUBBLE SCREEN
So the key things that I have learned that makes my play calling difficult to defend are the following:
1) If I always come out in a base play with the WR3 (slot) aligned to the right, I can swap into one of my custom audibles extremely quickly, generally with an extremely quick and smooth backfield shift by the H-back and/or running back.
2) By highlighting the H-back often before I snap the ball, I can disguise whether the play has designated H-back motion pre-snap, whether I am manually repositiong the H-back (which I do sometimes, particularly for certain PA passes) or whether I am changing plays with an audible. An extremely aware opponent may be able to get some cues from what I am doing, but this bit of disguise makes it more difficult for him and if he focuses on it too much it is going to bite him big-time.
3) By taking some care that I come out in play that attacks a different area of the defensive front with different action than my audibles (and formation audibles) I can attack whatever part of the front looks most vulnerable after some very quick adjustments.
The big key is that my formation run audible in PISTOL WING OFFSET is STRETCH. So that gives me outside zone to the right (I have also figured out where to landmark my ballcarrier path in that run vs. various fronts, which helps a great deal). The formation run audible for both SHOTGUN WING OFFSET WK and WING TRIPS OFFSET WK is INSIDE ZONE SPLIT (a play I don't love, but can be effective if run properly). So I always have an inside zone run available with one or two audibles. I have a good version of POWER O available and I have a Zone read with an arc block to the weak side with Y LEAD READ OPTION. So if I come out in something like SHOTGUN NORMAL FLEX WING with the COUNTER play, flipped with the slot WR to the right, I have my called COUNTER, I have DIVE as the default formation run audible and I have all my other run audibles available. I can shift into them very quickly and either disguise my shifts by highlighting the H-back or not. And I have some pretty potent passing options available through the formation audibles that I have managed to crowbar into these formations by trial and error.
If my opponent shows big time pressure to the weak side of my formation or shows blitz with both safeties, I can audible into the empty BUBBLE SCREEN. Most users are going to re-adjust when I do that, but if they don't that can turn into a huge play really quick, even running it into the boundary side.
Maybe this stuff is elementary for you guys who have been running the Auburn style spread for a while, but for me getting these audibles set up just right has been a game changer.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I've been using audibles in the same formation for a while now. Basically, I have my five core plays along with a sixth to create a series. I currently use the following out of Split Offset:
Formation Audibles
Run: Inside Zone
Quick Pass: Slants
PA Pass: PA Slide
Deep Pass: Smash
Global Audibles
A: Zone Read
X: Mesh
Y: Scat
LB: Deep Post
RB: WR Screen
This way, I can attack any coverage and also counter the D in the running game with the QB keeper.
Formation Audibles
Run: Inside Zone
Quick Pass: Slants
PA Pass: PA Slide
Deep Pass: Smash
Global Audibles
A: Zone Read
X: Mesh
Y: Scat
LB: Deep Post
RB: WR Screen
This way, I can attack any coverage and also counter the D in the running game with the QB keeper.
That sounds similar what I had been doing, I always had an audible series with Gun Wing Offset and Gun Wing Offset Wk. I would basically use the audibles to jump shift the HB quickly before the snap and then run a play the other direction. I primarily use it to counter users who try and dick around with my read by either user controlling the DE or shifting guys around. I can just jump shift the back to the other side and snap it instantly since no one else shifts. You can also do it based out of Pistol Wing Offset if you wanted to.
I never really expanded it beyond that too much, even though I probably could have out of Normal Flex Wing Wk which has a good group of plays. The toughest part about doing that is it takes the majority of your audibles and if you wanted to use audibles for other plays or like a two minute drill, it becomes difficult to fit it in. I really wish there were more than 5 audibles. How cool would it be to hit X/Square to audible and then be able to use the left and right shoulder buttons to scroll through a few pages of audibles?
I played my first game with an all traditional Gun offense at UNC last night. It was only a half completed playbook but it was against the CPU so I just wanted to test some things. All things considered it was really good. My best player, a 96 SPD receiver had 7 carries for well over 100 yards and 7 catches for over 100 yards so I was able to get him the ball via option and Jet and Wildcat and screens. My starting HB is pretty slow so he did not do well in that offense, 8 rushes for 15 yards and a short yardage TD. My backup is a bit better, he ran well, as did my QB.
I'm trying to decide if I want to insert any offset gun into the offense. Similar to what Oregon does where they just move their back around depending on the play. So take Gun Normal and Gun Normal Wk and add Gun Normal Offset. Same for Y Trips and Trio and Spread and 4WR Trio. That would add quite a few plays, but it would at least give me a downhill threat that I can get to via tempo.
The best tempo grouping I had in the game last night was 12 personnel going between Ace, Ace Twins, Ace Twins Wk, Twin TE Slot, Twin TE Slot Wk and Wildcat Wing. I hit some big plays with Motion Option/Jet out of both Ace and Ace Twins and I have some good QB runs in Twin TE Slot. I really like the flow of the offense in traditional gun, play action looks better and there are far more developed pass concepts. I even tested out my Tackle Over formation sub in Normal HB Wk so my LT moved to TE and my TE (former OL) moved to LT. I liked being able to run Sweeps with an extra OL on the field but I'm not sure how effective it'll be in practical use.
I'm trying to decide if I want to insert any offset gun into the offense. Similar to what Oregon does where they just move their back around depending on the play. So take Gun Normal and Gun Normal Wk and add Gun Normal Offset. Same for Y Trips and Trio and Spread and 4WR Trio. That would add quite a few plays, but it would at least give me a downhill threat that I can get to via tempo.
The best tempo grouping I had in the game last night was 12 personnel going between Ace, Ace Twins, Ace Twins Wk, Twin TE Slot, Twin TE Slot Wk and Wildcat Wing. I hit some big plays with Motion Option/Jet out of both Ace and Ace Twins and I have some good QB runs in Twin TE Slot. I really like the flow of the offense in traditional gun, play action looks better and there are far more developed pass concepts. I even tested out my Tackle Over formation sub in Normal HB Wk so my LT moved to TE and my TE (former OL) moved to LT. I liked being able to run Sweeps with an extra OL on the field but I'm not sure how effective it'll be in practical use.
I think I'm going to focus on a really small playbook that is series based. Use plays rather than formations to attack. Generally speaking, I prefer using multiple formations and less concepts. It is easier to install a formation and then use different formations to get certain players in a spot you want to feature them. That's obviously the Malzahn approach to things and I love it and it is the foundation of my Spread-I. Boil the offense down to a few base concepts and run them perfectly out of as many possible formations and at the fastest possible speed. The issue, as I've noted here a few times, is that I don't have a counter punch off of that. The plays that should counter it don't really work or don't work as effectively as they need to.
I tried taking that same approach to "traditional" Shotgun. Less concepts, more formations but when I did, the playbook just ballooned to an absurd size. My biggest issue in my Spread-I was that people were able to dictate who carried the football for me so I wanted to be able to counter that with designed runs for certain players. In order to do all of that, I want to be able to have things like base IZ/OZ/Power/Counter/Buck and then reads and options off of it like Midline and Jet and Motion Option. Trying to do all of that plus out-formation people is next to impossible.
Instead what I am going to do is a very small, series based approach. Essentially take a handful of modular schemes that I can run at up-tempo. I'll probably base out of a 12 personnel series and then go from there. I don't know if he is over here, but CoachM always had a great Power/WingT spread offense out of 12 personnel where he'd use audibles to motion the wing/H player into the backfield and run some different things. I loved that offense, I might try and run something like that. I am not really sure which formations to use or if I want to mix and match traditional and offset but I might try.
I tried taking that same approach to "traditional" Shotgun. Less concepts, more formations but when I did, the playbook just ballooned to an absurd size. My biggest issue in my Spread-I was that people were able to dictate who carried the football for me so I wanted to be able to counter that with designed runs for certain players. In order to do all of that, I want to be able to have things like base IZ/OZ/Power/Counter/Buck and then reads and options off of it like Midline and Jet and Motion Option. Trying to do all of that plus out-formation people is next to impossible.
Instead what I am going to do is a very small, series based approach. Essentially take a handful of modular schemes that I can run at up-tempo. I'll probably base out of a 12 personnel series and then go from there. I don't know if he is over here, but CoachM always had a great Power/WingT spread offense out of 12 personnel where he'd use audibles to motion the wing/H player into the backfield and run some different things. I loved that offense, I might try and run something like that. I am not really sure which formations to use or if I want to mix and match traditional and offset but I might try.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
@TXHusker05 Careful doing that. It's easy to quickly go from an offense to a random assortment of plays.
That's my main concern. My biggest worry is ending up with formation tendencies where I only go to one formation to run one thing.
What dictates when you go to your Wishbone Split Offset Y series or your Wing T series and vice versa? Do you base out of one thing and then run it until you need to adjust or the down & distance requires it? With my Spread-I, I really never need to worry about down & distance because my entire offense is available to me. I'll run anything anywhere. I might have a few preferences for short yardage or goal line like running HB Toss out of Slot F Wing on the GL but that's it.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I base out of split offset. I add the TE if they are consistently rushing 8 and I still want to run. I go to the Wing T package when I want to attack the perimeter.
FYI: I make a new book almost every day. I like to experiment and see what works. Consistently, I've found the 11 personnel packages + split backs and the Wing T package to be the best combination based on my play style.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
My alma mater is one of the top rushing teams in the FCS, and they base out of what I mentioned above. I added the Wing T package, but they love to run the buck sweep, inside zone, and QB trap play. They also mix in all the reads that are in the game along with a few others. They have a sweet QB trap read where a guard pulls weak side to be a lead blocker for the quarterback.
I'm kind of the same, I've been running with a ton of default playbooks off and on just to experiment and see if I find something interesting. The one thing I really want to have in this situation is Midline Read Option. The biggest threat to my offenses, whether it is the Spread-I or a traditional spread is my counter to people gaming my read. A lot of people move the end around, others go conservative and manually handle my QB. Midline would be a counter to both of those because I'd be optioning off someone else and then attacking straight downhill if they take my HB. Inverted Veer off of Jet is another option there.
At UNC, my two best runners are my WR and QB. My tailbacks are solid, but I'm not sure I would be comfortable running any of the 3 more than a dozen times.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
I went through some old articles about Dennis Erickson's original "spread" offense that he used at WSU and Miami. In today's world nobody would consider it a spread, but this offense was really the spread before the spread. It was prevalent in the Big Sky conference in the late-80s and came to the Pac-10 in the early 90s. And of course Erickson used it at Miami around the same time. The modern Air Raid and a bunch of other spread systems are basically derived from it.
I focused on One Back under center formations. I have two One Back formations that use 12 personnel, three that use 11 personnel and two that use 10 personnel. I also have two shotgun formations (Spread and Empty Quads) that use 10 personnel.
That's it.
Running game is Dive, Inside Zone, Outside Zone and some misdirection counters. I left all zone read stuff and options out in order to make it as historically accurate as possible, though many of those teams did run speed option (which I may add). Passing offense is your basic quick game stuff, four verts, downfield play action, and a few other downfield concepts.
I haven't run it against humans, but it is fun and pretty true to life running it against the CPU.
I focused on One Back under center formations. I have two One Back formations that use 12 personnel, three that use 11 personnel and two that use 10 personnel. I also have two shotgun formations (Spread and Empty Quads) that use 10 personnel.
That's it.
Running game is Dive, Inside Zone, Outside Zone and some misdirection counters. I left all zone read stuff and options out in order to make it as historically accurate as possible, though many of those teams did run speed option (which I may add). Passing offense is your basic quick game stuff, four verts, downfield play action, and a few other downfield concepts.
I haven't run it against humans, but it is fun and pretty true to life running it against the CPU.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
Ha. You've got me pegged.
Alright, approaching my UNC offense from another perspective... what is the best way to get a wide receiver consistent touches? My best player by far is my Senior WR, he is very similar to a Percy Harvin or De'Anthony Thomas type. I want to get him at least 20 touches a game between passes and runs. I already know I'm going to run a ton of F Twins Over with him as the Jet player. What else can I do?
When I was at TTU the first time through NCAA 14 I had a similar player that I initially tried shoehorning into my Spread-I and it didn't work very well. I want to have an actual offense designed for a run threat at receiver. How I'm going to manage to pull that off, I don't know. I can only run Jet so many times.
When I was at TTU the first time through NCAA 14 I had a similar player that I initially tried shoehorning into my Spread-I and it didn't work very well. I want to have an actual offense designed for a run threat at receiver. How I'm going to manage to pull that off, I don't know. I can only run Jet so many times.
I was thinking about that. CoachM always used to do this audibles series where he had a HB at the wing position of Twin TE Slot Wk and then would audible to Split Twins to get that guy into the backfield. I thought about doing something like that where I could run option with him. He's actually a decent blocker as well so I could pull that off if I wanted.
I'm also thinking about installing some special formations where the sole purpose would be to get him the ball. Chad Morris did a few of those with Sammy Watkins when he was at Clemson where he'd have a formation specifically to line Watkins up in the backfield and hand him the ball. Split Offset would be a good formation to use for that as both a dive player or pitch player.
I also thought about taking something like Goal Line Twins Over and putting the WR at HB and my HB at FB so I could run HB Toss or FB Dive depending on the defense's alignment on short yardage and then, should I convert a 1st down, be able to then go up-tempo and have the WR in the backfield at HB to run something like Buck Sweep or option. That Weak I Normal Fly Sweep series might also be a decent idea. Those obviously aren't "spread" formations but good ways to hand the ball to a WR.
Gun Ace Twins is a formation I'll definitely want as well just because it has Jet, Motion Option, Motion Option Pass and a Bubble Screen for that slot receiver.
I'm sure I'll do some Wildcat, especially since my QB is a solid runner, but not being able to audible in Wildcat even with a QB taking the snap is frustrating. If you're in a bad play, you're screwed.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Put him in the slot using Gun Normal. I have a series where I run Jet, Load Option, and Load Option Pass. Have him as the pitch back in Trio Offset and run the triple option series.
Don't underestimate using him in the screen game. Give the guy some blockers, and let him run wild.
I'm definitely going to use a screen game with him, I want to have at least one 4x1 Quads package where I have the WR at the innermost slot position and then TEs outside of him to block for bubble. Just a small package that is essentially bubble, blast and maybe verts and a PA.
I played around with that Weak I Normal Fly Sweep series and really liked it. I could see a package where I go from that to Twin TE Slot in up-tempo. I would have to use an audible since it is 21 personnel to 12 personnel, but I would use 2 TE on the field so the transition should be seamless.
X--------YOOOOO----------------
-------------Q--------------Z----
----------H----------------------
-------------T-------------------
Run a Fly Sweep to the left, my Z would end up on the left side then and then just hurry and go tempo to Twin TE Slot and it would look like this:
X----------OOOOOY-------------
-----Z-------------H-------------
------------T-Q-----------------
So far what I know I want is Twin TE Slot, Twin TE Slot Wk, Wildcat Wing as a 12 personnel package. F Twins Over will be important, and despite being a 20 personnel package, will also have 12 personnel on the field via subs. I'll definitely have a Gun Normal Jet/Motion/Load package and probably a Normal HB Wk package with Buck and Bubble (with a Tackle at TE). I'll have an Empty series as well. Probably some other Wildcat sets to maybe direct snap it to the WR and run Q Blast/Power. I'm guessing I'll have at least one under center formation, whether it is Weak Normal Y Over like above or maybe Ace Bunch to run End Around, End Around Smash, PA End Around.
There are really two main things up in the air, what I'm going to do for a spread/need to score/two minute situation and how much (if any) offset gun I want. I like the idea of being offset because all 3 of my Tailbacks are slower downhill types but the concepts available aren't really that helpful.
Well I played my first game with that offense, at least most of it. All the packages I talked about above including some under center, offset gun only in 10 personnel. It was very successful, although I focused on certain areas more than others. Beat the CPU 47-16, 592 total yards, 35 rushes for 313 yards and 4 TD and 21 of 26 passing for 279 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT.
My QB ran 12 times for 83 yards and a TD and the WR ran 10 times for 105 yards and a TD, he also caught 4 passes for 38 yards. The most effective plays to get the WR the ball were actually the under center packages. I ran Ace Bunch/Base End Around a couple times for huge gains and Weak I Normal Y Over Fly Sweep a couple times for good gains. He also had a really good run off of Jet Sweep out of the Gun Normal package. I didn't run a ton of option in the game. I ran a Speed Option for a decent gain but that was about it. The majority of my QB's run yards actually came in my Gun Ace "Jumbo" package, where I have 7 OL on the field and a TE in the backfield and can run QB Blast/QB Power or isolate my outside WRs 1 on 1 to run a slant or curl or vert. I had a couple huge runs off of QB Power and a few good passes isolated to my taller WR. My best receiver was actually the converted OL at TE. He caught 5 passes for 84 yards and a TD. It helped that he was wide open all game but it was a welcome threat.
Things I liked:
- The under center stuff was incredible. Not sure how well it'll work vs users and I have to be careful going no-huddle with it because the handoff glitch animation happens, but to start a drive it was great. Especially when I could follow it up with some tempo stuff in different formations.
- The Gun Normal Jet/Load/Motion Option series. I didn't run it as much as I thought I would, but when I did, it was golden. The Jet Sweep went for a long TD run for the WR and the Motion Option Pass was one of the big passes to the TE.
- Buck Sweep was a huge part of the offense, once I got the right TB in there. My starting TB is way too slow to be running Buck, his backup is a smaller and a tad quicker and had a bunch of success.
Things I didn't like:
- The idea to manually do Tackle Over formations in traditional gun won't work. Works great for the first play, but then when I go tempo that guy ends up all over the place.
- The Wildcat was a non-factor. I had one good QB run off of Jet Counter and a few good passes out of Wildcat Slot PA where I hot routed the outside WRs to a curl/slant/vert depending on the CB but the Wildcat run game was awful.
- I didn't go 10 personnel much, but when I did, it was not pretty. I used Offset Gun formations for my 10 personnel stuff so I could run downhill, but I just didn't go to it often and it got shutdown pretty easily when I did. Empty was not much better, although I did score a short TD when I went tempo and checked to Empty Quads bubble to the boundary.
- Tempo itself was not helpful. Fatigue was a huge problem if I went more than 3 plays in a row and then I'd be stuck with backups on the field for a few plays after. Not sure what I can do about that though except have a few special formations where I formation sub an entire second unit on the field like a hockey shift change.
All in all, pretty good first game and I definitely got the stuff I wanted for my WR, but I need to expand the rest of the offense a bit.
My QB ran 12 times for 83 yards and a TD and the WR ran 10 times for 105 yards and a TD, he also caught 4 passes for 38 yards. The most effective plays to get the WR the ball were actually the under center packages. I ran Ace Bunch/Base End Around a couple times for huge gains and Weak I Normal Y Over Fly Sweep a couple times for good gains. He also had a really good run off of Jet Sweep out of the Gun Normal package. I didn't run a ton of option in the game. I ran a Speed Option for a decent gain but that was about it. The majority of my QB's run yards actually came in my Gun Ace "Jumbo" package, where I have 7 OL on the field and a TE in the backfield and can run QB Blast/QB Power or isolate my outside WRs 1 on 1 to run a slant or curl or vert. I had a couple huge runs off of QB Power and a few good passes isolated to my taller WR. My best receiver was actually the converted OL at TE. He caught 5 passes for 84 yards and a TD. It helped that he was wide open all game but it was a welcome threat.
Things I liked:
- The under center stuff was incredible. Not sure how well it'll work vs users and I have to be careful going no-huddle with it because the handoff glitch animation happens, but to start a drive it was great. Especially when I could follow it up with some tempo stuff in different formations.
- The Gun Normal Jet/Load/Motion Option series. I didn't run it as much as I thought I would, but when I did, it was golden. The Jet Sweep went for a long TD run for the WR and the Motion Option Pass was one of the big passes to the TE.
- Buck Sweep was a huge part of the offense, once I got the right TB in there. My starting TB is way too slow to be running Buck, his backup is a smaller and a tad quicker and had a bunch of success.
Things I didn't like:
- The idea to manually do Tackle Over formations in traditional gun won't work. Works great for the first play, but then when I go tempo that guy ends up all over the place.
- The Wildcat was a non-factor. I had one good QB run off of Jet Counter and a few good passes out of Wildcat Slot PA where I hot routed the outside WRs to a curl/slant/vert depending on the CB but the Wildcat run game was awful.
- I didn't go 10 personnel much, but when I did, it was not pretty. I used Offset Gun formations for my 10 personnel stuff so I could run downhill, but I just didn't go to it often and it got shutdown pretty easily when I did. Empty was not much better, although I did score a short TD when I went tempo and checked to Empty Quads bubble to the boundary.
- Tempo itself was not helpful. Fatigue was a huge problem if I went more than 3 plays in a row and then I'd be stuck with backups on the field for a few plays after. Not sure what I can do about that though except have a few special formations where I formation sub an entire second unit on the field like a hockey shift change.
All in all, pretty good first game and I definitely got the stuff I wanted for my WR, but I need to expand the rest of the offense a bit.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
That fly sweep is a Pete Carroll staple. It's just a shame there isn't a pass built on it to really flesh out the series. Of course, that's my complaint with almost all of the "special" plays EA touted as a big deal over the past few years. Yeah, the jet sweep is in Gun Normal Weak, but it is completely worthless against a user because there isn't a dive, veer/read, or pass built off it.
I just need to get back into coaching next year. Then, I can do all of this with real people instead of EA's pseudo-student-athletes.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I don't think you can do that in game. I just run a rollout play and run if it's there.
Yeah the lack of complimentary plays to Jet and Fly Sweeps is a problem. The Fly Sweep in Ace Big has a great pass play off of it, I run that Fly/Dive/PA series in my Osborne offense quite a bit, that pass is one of my primary man beaters. But none of the other under center formations really have a pass off of Fly/Jet. F Twins Over is great because of how many complimentary plays there are, a few other Gun formations at least have Jet/Jet Dive which is nice but that's about it.
The way I was able to run out of Weak Y Over and the End Around/Fk End Around Slash/PA End Around in Ace Bunch makes me wonder if maybe I should think about ditching some of the Gun Jet stuff because of the lack of complimentary plays and focus more on moving my WR around via subs to get him the ball.
I've tried it. It does serve the same purpose you're talking about where you have Zone/Keep/Bubble but in practice, it can be a little dicey. The alley defender you're keep/pitch reading always seems to take a weird angle and occasionally the QB/WR pitch relationship is terrible. It works well in some formations but poorly in others. It's mostly trial and error.
Like most keep/pitch reads, you really have to attack the outside shoulder of the defender you're reading to get a clear read and on quite a few of the QB Slot Option plays, the QB's footwork takes him straight upfield while the pitch guy stays farther back. It is worth calling the ball, but more often than not I just keep it on Slot Option.
[quote="TXHusker05,
I've tried it. It does serve the same purpose you're talking about where you have Zone/Keep/Bubble but in practice, it can be a little dicey. The alley defender you're keep/pitch reading always seems to take a weird angle and occasionally the QB/WR pitch relationship is terrible. It works well in some formations but poorly in others. It's mostly trial and error.
Like most keep/pitch reads, you really have to attack the outside shoulder of the defender you're reading to get a clear read and on quite a few of the QB Slot Option plays, the QB's footwork takes him straight upfield while the pitch guy stays farther back. It is worth calling the ball, but more often than not I just keep it on Slot Option.[/quote]
I'm also trying to find more ways to stretch the field horizontally and I figured that would be the next step but most users play their option settings to have the RB keep anyways
I've tried it. It does serve the same purpose you're talking about where you have Zone/Keep/Bubble but in practice, it can be a little dicey. The alley defender you're keep/pitch reading always seems to take a weird angle and occasionally the QB/WR pitch relationship is terrible. It works well in some formations but poorly in others. It's mostly trial and error.
Like most keep/pitch reads, you really have to attack the outside shoulder of the defender you're reading to get a clear read and on quite a few of the QB Slot Option plays, the QB's footwork takes him straight upfield while the pitch guy stays farther back. It is worth calling the ball, but more often than not I just keep it on Slot Option.[/quote]
I'm also trying to find more ways to stretch the field horizontally and I figured that would be the next step but most users play their option settings to have the RB keep anyways
Yeah, most users play aggressive option D and then load up the box with as many bodies as they can. That is the biggest problem I face with my Spread-I. I get taken out of my option game by coach settings and face a loaded box with no real way to stretch the field horizontally. Screens only take you so far, especially against press coverage and the run plays that should stretch the field horizontally like Jet, Speed Option, Sweeps are hit or miss. The field is so narrow and depending on the sliders, perimeter blocking and horizontal speed might not be that helpful.
Being able to stretch the field horizontally is the biggest problem I face and I honestly have no answers. I know what should work, but it usually doesn't. I'm trying to adjust my offense to work outside-in rather than inside-out but that is a lot harder than I thought it would be. I might have to start flipping my tendencies and throwing earlier and more often to open up the run game.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
I like to threaten the perimeter by alignment. I realize that isn't part of the old school Nebraska offense, but it is a necessity in this game, for the exact reasons you cited.
So the way I think about it is: 1) threaten the perimeter by alignment, 2) if the defense doesn't respect the outside threat, punish the opponent for that (quick screens, outs, etc.), 3) if he does respect the outside threat, work the run game against favorable numbers in the box, 4) when he tries to adjust to getting gashed by the run, that is when the counter-punches (PA over the top, etc.) come out.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
The only issue there is screens are hit and miss depending on the formation/screen type. I agree with the whole post though because formations really are the best way to stretch the field horizontally.
So far, I've found the empty series to be the best way to stretch the field, and running rollout passes to put an alley defender on an island works well too.
Don't estimate the quick pass game either. Concepts like mesh, spot, and stick will work great against users who load the box with a safety.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
A lot of Air Raid teams do this, specifically West Virginia and Okie State.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
I've been creating my own versions of Stick with interesting stuff on the backside of the play.
I have used Trips formations with the RB aligned to the single receiver side. Call a RB slip screen, change the Trips side to a stick, out, go and put the solo receiver on a slant or in. Voila, stick/screen packaged play.
From Empty formations (which usually have the two backside receivers running slants), I have been changing the back side slot receiver to an out at the first down marker. It definitely helps clear space for the slant if it is a zone and there is some chance of a pick happening if it is man.
I have used Trips formations with the RB aligned to the single receiver side. Call a RB slip screen, change the Trips side to a stick, out, go and put the solo receiver on a slant or in. Voila, stick/screen packaged play.
From Empty formations (which usually have the two backside receivers running slants), I have been changing the back side slot receiver to an out at the first down marker. It definitely helps clear space for the slant if it is a zone and there is some chance of a pick happening if it is man.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
If it is zone, what's the reasoning behind that if you already have a zone beater to the other side?
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
Well, if it is a Cover 2, you need to be able to wait for the Go route to take the top off the defense. And even then you have to be wary of the high safety to that side. But the slant player will be running into a huge void almost immediately.
Like Zack said, alignment only gets you so far because not all formations and screens are built equally. Some work great, others fall flat on their face. I've been working in more and more Empty just to get some quick perimeter plays in but it is hard for me because no one takes my pass game seriously. I can't blame them.
A backside slant off of a screen is fairly common, do you get hit with OPI at all in game when you try it? I've been wanting to use more double screens because that was probably the most deadly part of my Spread-I but pretty much any time I try to throw a backside route, even if it is just a hitch, I get hit with OPI. I know we have a rule in CUSA/BSCFL about declining OPI on bubble screens (Caused by errant throws) but not sure if that applies to actual designed backside routes.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Yeah, you'll get called for it most of the time.
Yeah OPI is pretty weird. I've never gotten it called on any of my created double (or triple) screens. I usually complete the pass at or behind the LOS on all of those so that's not surprising. But when I try to pair a bubble screen with a slant or a mid screen with a backside hitch vs off coverage, I get called for OPI constantly.
I've been trying to work more screens into my offense to slow some pass rush and get people out of zero blitzes but it is tough. Most users see slip screens coming a mile away and bubble/flanker/now screens are hit or miss (especially against press coverage which I face all the time). Mid screens are probably the best option, but not available in all formations. I do need to work on calling that FB Cross Screen out of F Twins Over more. That's a great screen with some built in misdirection.
RedmondLonghorn
#LOB
The OPI seems to happen a lot with bubbles and WR quick screens, but I've never seen it with slip screens to the RBs.
I've had OPI called on receivers away from the play. Most commonly when I just tag a backside fade/slant to a bubble screen out of a 3x1 formation. I'd get hit with OPI on the middle slot receiver to the trips side. What is weird is that I never get called for OPI when I run my Mid Screen with the mid screen route adjusted to an underneath/shallow route. That pass usually gets completed about 5 yards down the field with OL blocking and I've never once been called for OPI.
I stopped doing it that way though because it kept screwing up the timing of the play. I do run another screen with an underneath route that again never gets called. I think it really depends on the route. Fades on a screen pass get called pretty much every time, slants and curls often but not always, shallows never get called. I should try a Pivot route some time and see if that would work. A back side pivot to the boundary could be useful.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Yeah, the linemen typically sty behind the LOS. That's why it's not being called.
Do you know anyway you could get this screen in? I saw Cincy run this against USF a few weeks ago (recreated with my great Paint skills):
Something like that at least. A tunnel screen with a wheel going the opposite way would be great.
EDIT: I found it on YouTube. Go to 50 seconds in.
That play is just a Fake Screen wheel play, just like this:
The assignments are a little different since #2 is running the flash screen and #1 is running vertical but it is the same thing. Doesn't look like the screen was an option there for Cincy, just as a check down. No one else went out to block, he just sold the fake hard.
The Fake Screen Wheel plays in game are pretty hit or miss, mostly because of protection issues. I actually like calling Fake Screen Wheel type plays and throwing a curl to the backside WR. The small pump fake freezes aggressive user defenders.