Principles of Pro Style Offenses

[PSUEagle]

After struggling a bit on offense against @bruin228, decided to go back to the drawing board and revamp things a little bit. I moved the ball well and scored points, but over the last few games I've had about 3-4 empty possessions: unacceptable considering the state of defense in this game.

One thing I've found that's hurt me in NCAA 14: I still have that mentality of being obsessed with finding press man beaters. The reality is that in this version it's not as important: there's a myriad of routes that get open and most people play zone, anyway. Also found that I've fallen in love too much with my vertical passing game: I take too many sacks holding the ball waiting for things to develop. In it's place I plan to get back to more of the short passing game off both quick and standard drops.

This new book is geared towards running the ball. I stripped out some of the formations that sucked in the running game (they're in the West Coast tab if you're curious) and replaced them with sets that I can run the ball well from, with an emphasis on Inside Zone and Counter out of 11 personnel shotgun. Also added in a couple pistol sets with the TE in a sniffer/H-Back spot: like some of the versatility that offers in terms of Counter, Split Zone, and Slam.

I retained a few I Formation sets: the play action along with runs available in Normal and Slot Flex are really good. Other than that, though, this thing's a one back offense.

 

[nofx94]

At some point I'm gonna lab it to see if I can be more decisive, but after reading about Harbaugh and LSU (for whom I can't find the link I read last night), I think I'm just gonna run a combination of mostly power with one lead-zone play and some option (power, triple, and then FB dive series).

The option has really been the sticking point. If I wasn't so predisposed to recruiting mobile QBs it'd be easy to run pure power, but I just can't bring myself to not use option.

I'm not huge on tosses, so that might help me limit concepts, but I'm really not sure. I guess if I can't find a great way to run power from ace I could just convert to a more-pure zone, but I don't want to give up Iso or Power O, as you can probably tell given the 24+ hours I've been debating this with myself.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

At some point I'm gonna lab it to see if I can be more decisive, but after reading about Harbaugh and LSU (for whom I can't find the link I read last night), I think I'm just gonna run a combination of mostly power with one lead-zone play and some option (power, triple, and then FB dive series).

The option has really been the sticking point. If I wasn't so predisposed to recruiting mobile QBs it'd be easy to run pure power, but I just can't bring myself to not use option.

I'm not huge on tosses, so that might help me limit concepts, but I'm really not sure. I guess if I can't find a great way to run power from ace I could just convert to a more-pure zone, but I don't want to give up Iso or Power O, as you can probably tell given the 24+ hours I've been debating this with myself.

I have a similar philosophy and I run a hand full of concepts: inside zone/dive, stretch, counter and option (midline, load/speed, triple), mostly from 2 and 3 back sets. Although, my 4 gun sets are all singleback. I also can't help but go after athletic QBs but I like to go after the balanced ones because just about anyone can pick up 4 yards on midline. I run the shit outta stretch, it has become my bread and butter, and counter with slam/blast once that gets shut down. Second, I love to run midline or dive in short yardage situations. Last, I save the triple for a big play/change of pace play. I don't like to call it often if at all, only if I can't get anything going. Honestly, if I don't have to throw the ball I won't.

 

[JSU Zack]

Holy shit, @PSUEagle figured out how to do it. Very nice, sir.

 

[JSU Zack]

@PSUEagle I'm assuming the tabs are two separate playbooks?

 

[PSUEagle]

@PSUEagle I'm assuming the tabs are two separate playbooks?

Yes.

I have one master file in Excel of all PB's from both versions, but I don't think anyone cares about the NCAA 13 playbooks.

 

[PSUEagle]

At some point I'm gonna lab it to see if I can be more decisive, but after reading about Harbaugh and LSU (for whom I can't find the link I read last night), I think I'm just gonna run a combination of mostly power with one lead-zone play and some option (power, triple, and then FB dive series).

The option has really been the sticking point. If I wasn't so predisposed to recruiting mobile QBs it'd be easy to run pure power, but I just can't bring myself to not use option.

I'm not huge on tosses, so that might help me limit concepts, but I'm really not sure. I guess if I can't find a great way to run power from ace I could just convert to a more-pure zone, but I don't want to give up Iso or Power O, as you can probably tell given the 24+ hours I've been debating this with myself.

Just my opinion, but I think Zone>>>>>Gap schemes in this game for the most part, especially from under center.

Counters lose yardage too frequently (although I like Counter Trap from Ace Big and HB Counter from I Form Normal) while Power O isn't particularly good when run to a TE, either. Trap is really good if you can find it: that's one of the reasons I use Ace Slot Flex instead of Slot (besides the fact that I prefer that version of that formation IRL anyway). Also like Toss from I sets, especially Slot Flex.

Zone wise from under center I don't use Stretch/Outside Zone very often: it's basically reserved exclusively for users that get into a lot of Bear/pinched fronts. 90% of the time the DE being blocked will widen, forcing you to cutback. That's fine when the linebackers overflow the play, but when they don't (at least half the time) you go nowhere. So instead of fighting that, I now use Inside Zone as my play to get wide: you'll see the tackle/TE hook those defenders a lot more to create a bounce out opportunity. The path of the back isn't perfect with the mesh point, but it's good enough if you make that read quickly. And when I want to go inside I run Dive: it's simple, hits quickly, and is good for 2-3 yards at worst (and a lot more if it's blocked well). Those two plays are more than enough for me.

From the Gun I basically use Counter and Inside Zone from traditional gun if I can get them. Prefer to run Counter to a TE, but it's still OK if going to a tackle. If I can't get them, I'll grudgingly use Sweep/Off Tackle but won't call them unless I get a very favorable box count. They basically have the same problem as the under center versions: it's almost impossible to get a bounce out and threaten the edge.

 

[nofx94]

I need to experiment more with counter and more in general, but power O is not super effective from I. It's pretty okay from ace twin TE slot and it's pretty good from wing trips offset. Toss kind of blows from I, but power toss is pretty good from ace twin TE slot.

You're definitely right, though. The AI has some problems on guard-pulling for the power O - more than it has on zone split or TE-lead reads, for instance, which execute pretty properly. I could just run zone with dive thrown in - I want some manner of consistency - but it's just as likely likely I'll end up picking and choosing by formation, including power O where it works and leaving it out where it doesn't.


I used to love the counter play when I first got into Madden, but I've really shied away from it since having issues on Madden 09 or 10. Whichever was the 20th anniversary. I know Pistol wk twins has a very good strong counter play.

Trial and error will end up building the offense, which I guess is relatively true to life. Lol

 

[TXHusker05]

I need to experiment more with counter and more in general, but power O is not super effective from I. It's pretty okay from ace twin TE slot and it's pretty good from wing trips offset. Toss kind of blows from I, but power toss is pretty good from ace twin TE slot.

You're definitely right, though. The AI has some problems on guard-pulling for the power O - more than it has on zone split or TE-lead reads, for instance, which execute pretty properly. I could just run zone with dive thrown in - I want some manner of consistency - but it's just as likely likely I'll end up picking and choosing by formation, including power O where it works and leaving it out where it doesn't.


I used to love the counter play when I first got into Madden, but I've really shied away from it since having issues on Madden 09 or 10. Whichever was the 20th anniversary. I know Pistol wk twins has a very good strong counter play.

Trial and error will end up building the offense, which I guess is relatively true to life. Lol

In two back formations, I would prefer zone plays 100% of the time. Power O in the I just gets a ton of bodies in your way and the FB typically doesn't block anyone or anything. Part of that is because Power O isn't designed right in the game. Instead of having everyone block down, the FB kickout and the BSG wrapping around to lead... the playside tackle usually blocks the end and the BSG/FB are just filling the hole looking for blocks that never show up. One back Power out of Ace (and Pistol) is solid if you use it sparingly and against certain looks.

I do like Counter a lot from the I, but only really like running it to the TE. The HB Counter play in a few I formations is really nice, it is kind of a Counter Trap type of play. One back Counter in Ace and Pistol is nice too, but you need at HB speed to run it to the tackle side.

 

[nofx94]

All very useful. Thank you. I'll probably end up primarily zone. Or trying to marry option with it all. Gonna look for playbooks online, look over the Osbourne playbook on scribd. I have an Osbourne playbook but I haven't really worked at it as far as plays. Just formation framework, basically.

Does anybody use the FSU-style 2-point stance fullback? The "H-" I forms?

 

[PSUEagle]

Does anybody use the FSU-style 2-point stance fullback? The "H-" I forms?

I moved towards using the Weak I versions towards the end of NCAA 13 (Pro and Twins): the Inside Zone/HB Slash play was the best run in the game that year and allowed me to stay in 12 personnel (my preferred group over 21). Also really liked HB Gut when flipped: the play would be blocked a lot like split flow Iso that you'll see NFL teams run a lot.

In NCAA 14 I don't, though: too many weird things happen when you audible and reset if you use a package sub. Plus there's more variety from the regular I sets in the run and pass games.

 

[TXHusker05]

After messing around with an Offset Gun only HUNH spread in Powerhouse with mixed results, I think I'm just going to go back to some Pistol stuff. The slider set there is just brutal for 5 man pass protection and there is no perimeter blocking so I'm either getting Cover 2 Press Man and still facing instant DL heat or getting a loaded box and no way to stretch the field horizontally. Since the run game is relatively overpowered, I'm just going to bring some bodies into the box and run my Power/Counter/PA game from Pistol. I ran a hybrid version of it in my last game and had a huge game but want to get something a bit more well designed.

I still don't have the right personnel, but I'm going to move some players around to make it work the rest of the season. I have no FB and only one TE, but my starting RG is also a very competent TE. Not fast, but really good blocker and a solid pass catcher. He was a center and I should have just moved him to TE in the off-season but I needed a RG and he was the best OVR option but the AWR hit moving from C to G made him god awful so I'm going to throw a 90s number on him and move him to TE2 like Stanford does and put a JUCO kid at RG.

Go back to basing out of my Pair TE Pistol formations. Twin TE, Twin TE Slot, Wing Over. I don't need to screw with formation subs doing it this way, I can do TE Flip to get the OL on the LOS and my really good pass catching TE as the wing. Or I can do 3WR to get my quick slot WR as the wing and my good pass catching TE at the LOS. Add in Jumbo Z with my good TE at the wing and my two converted OL TE on the line in 90s numbers.

Keep Offset Gun stuff for my trap game and my screen game plus some of my orbit/jet game, but just focus on being power run. I might even add back some of my 21 personnel Pistol stuff. Again, no FB and no blocking HB, but I could move the converted OL to TE to essentially have a 6 OL front and put my TE in the backfield to run my lead stuff.

I may change some of this stuff if the sliders end up changing, but at this point I don't think it makes any sense for me to be all spread out when I'm getting sacked, hit or pressured almost instantly.

 

[nofx94]

Decided I'm just going to design a multiple playbook and adapt it to personnel like I used to do. Right now it'll still have to be mainly shotgun on principle and mainly one-back because of personnel.

I really want to run 21/22 stuff but my fullbacks aren't there yet. I'm hoping to convert some of my backup receivers to TE and defense in the off season. I just want to muscle opponents. But I have more recruiting to do first.

Anyway, do y'all use any 13 sets? Jumbo and Jumbo Z... Pair, heavy? Does any of that work well for y'all?

 

[TXHusker05]

Decided I'm just going to design a multiple playbook and adapt it to personnel like I used to do. Right now it'll still have to be mainly shotgun on principle and mainly one-back because of personnel.

I really want to run 21/22 stuff but my fullbacks aren't there yet. I'm hoping to convert some of my backup receivers to TE and defense in the off season. I just want to muscle opponents. But I have more recruiting to do first.

Anyway, do y'all use any 13 sets? Jumbo and Jumbo Z... Pair, heavy? Does any of that work well for y'all?

I use Jumbo Z in Pistol, not often though. Typically it is a run only, 7 OL formation for me with FB/TE wing. Once in a while I'll max protect and do a PA Vertical concept with the WR out of it but that's rare (I use Pistol Train for that quite a bit). Jumbo Z isn't a bad short yardage set but not something I find myself in too often, mostly because the personnel on the field is radically different from any other formation I use and people would know I was doing nothing but running up the middle once they saw the personnel screen.

 

[TXHusker05]

Played my first game with my power/play action Pistol pro-style offense last night vs wpotty in Powerhouse. Really liked the power/counter/waggle aspect to it. I didn't run very many plays so didn't get too deep into the offense. I had a punt return TD, fumble return TD, started a drive inside the 5 and had a one play TD drive all in the first half but when my offense was on the field it was really good.

The PA Counter Waggle plays in Pistol are going to be deadly for me. I threw 8 of 9 in the game for 180 yards and I bet 7 of the pass plays were me calling PA Counter Waggle out of Pistol. Ever since I discovered that reversing the formation and canceling the PA animation once the mesh point occurs set a right handed throwing QB up perfectly to throw and timed the routes up nicely it's been huge for me. I'll still run PA Counter Waggle without reversing the formation from time to time, especially in Pistol Twin TE where you get a nice triangle read on PA Counter Waggle.

In Pistol Ace Twins and Pistol Trips, I hot route the TE to a shallow drag which essentially gives me mesh with the TE and inside slot receiver (or second TE). Then I have a deeper crossing route from the middle slot receiver and a deep home run post to the outside receiver. I have a route to beat any coverage and if I happen to get a man free or cover zero press look, I can alert the outside post to be a fade/vertical. The PA animation is really nice and will get quite a few user defenders to bite since it is just a really quick reverse out and then the QB is set to throw immediately.

In Pistol Slot, I hot route the TE to a flat route. His default route is a delay flat, but I don't like the delay routes so I just have him run a flat. That gives me a flat/comeback concept to one side and a cross/post concept to the other.

In Pistol Twin TE Slot, I package a 3rd WR at the wing position and then hot route the TE to the same flat route as above. This time it gets me Smash to the twin tight side and the same cross/post to the receiver side.

In Pistol Y Trips, I hot route the TE to the same flat route, but this time hot route the slot receiver to a smart in/dig route. That essentially creates an NCAA concept with a home run post from the solo WR and the 10 yard dig in the middle of the field and a flat/comeback to the other side.

I can create an NCAA concept with any of these PA Waggle plays with just a little hot route tweaking. In addition to the NCAA concept in Slot, I can get to it in Twin TE Slot by hot routing the wing WR/TE to a smart dig and hot routing the TE on the line to stay in and pass protect. I run it just like Malzahn does. I get a shallow, a dig and a post. Easy 3 read progression.

I kept a bunch of other PA concepts off of the read/dive action and a few PA boot plays off of stretch zone but I may just yank all of those and focus solely on PA Counter Waggle run each direction. Kind of adds a unique Wing T aspect to the offense but running a lot of reverse out waggle plays with Buck Sweep/Strong power and Counter GT as a base.

 

[TXHusker05]

Trying to find a way to put this Pistol pro-style offense together. I'm trying to balance my two back philosophy with a one back stuff. I listed out all the formations that I like and want and it is 50 formations long, trying to pare it down from there is tough. Two back formations add so much bulk to playbooks, whether it is two/three back Pistol sets, split gun sets or wing sets. By my count, about 20 formations are some form of two back sets and that doesn't even count my under center stuff.

Of course, this is easy if I completely ditch shotgun, but I'm not sure I can do that. At the very least I need the 4WR Gun stuff since Pistol 4WR stuff is terrible. I also prefer the screen and jet game out of Gun. I don't mind having 35 formations in a playbook (any more and it causes special teams to disappear) but I don't just want to shove random shit in the playbook. I always get out of sorts.

Ironically enough, I'm actually preferring to keep under center stuff in over Pistol/Gun stuff. It is a small part of my offense, at the moment just 8 formations and 30 total plays, but it is stuff I go to fairly consistently. I use Strong I sets a lot for short yardage and I go to my Ace stuff often, especially on first down. Ace Slot Flex HB Trap and PA TE Screen are deadly.

Maybe whenever NCAA 2020 comes out they'll go towards modular custom playbooks so that you can add formations and concepts separately. Make it so you can select whatever concepts you want and it automatically applies them to whatever formations you want.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

You multiple guys, I am working on a multiple book but it is topping out at around 30 formations, but I doubt there is anyway around this because I have trimmed out everything I don't need. Anyone having the same issues, any solutions?

 

[nofx94]

You multiple guys, I am working on a multiple book but it is topping out at around 30 formations, but I doubt there is anyway around this because I have trimmed out everything I don't need. Anyone having the same issues, any solutions?

If you want less formations, one thing to do is duplicate concepts across sets and then get rid of the ones they apply worst in. Or just keep using the playbook in practice and games and drop the formations you use the least.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

If you want less formations, one thing to do is duplicate concepts across sets and then get rid of the ones they apply worst in. Or just keep using the playbook in practice and games and drop the formations you use the least.

Think that's the direction I'm leaning towards.

 

[PSUEagle]

I always max out at formations with 40 (really 39, as I always keep Goal Line Normal since removing it messes up the order of my other sets when I make PB's). Never had any issues with the game removing special teams plays, etc.

 

[TXHusker05]

I tend to top my playbooks out at 35 max, because I have run into situations where special teams got removed. The two things may not be connected, but I didn't ever really want to push my luck. I also don't really find that I need more than 35.

My Spread I Triple is currently 26, including the two Wishbone and two Pistol which are more special situation formations. My Spread I Pro is sitting at 32, but that includes 8 under center formations with 3 plays in each.

I would like to be down in the 20s with every playbook but I just don't see any way to make it happen. I just need too many formations and like having my concepts available in each. Since I'm not running a whole lot of tempo anymore, having a streamlined playbook really isn't all that important to me. I'd rather have what I need.

 

[JSU Zack]

I'd love to make a playbook with three formations and just shove it down someone's throat a la Montana. Bob Stitt uses Spread, Trips, and Empty about 85% of the time.

 

[TXHusker05]

I'd love to make a playbook with three formations and just shove it down someone's throat a la Montana. Bob Stitt uses Spread, Trips, and Empty about 85% of the time.

That's more or less what @bruin228 does. He basically sits in Spread (Flex) and Trio 4WR all game long. He'll go to some other stuff but that's pretty much his offense.

I love formations too much to do that, although I tend to focus on a dozen or so per game out of my 25-35 total formations. Ran my Spread-I Triple vs NavyHog tonight and grinded out a win. I bet of my 26 formations, I ran maybe half? 12-13?

Split Big
Split Y Offset
Split Offset
Slot F Wing
Normal Flex Wing (Jet)
Normal Offset
Wing Offset Wk
Wing Trips Offset
Wing Trips Offset Wk
Trio Offset
Trio 4WR
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
Wishbone Tight

I might have done a jump audible to Wing Offset from Wing Offset Wk once or twice but otherwise I stuck mostly that core. Ran a ton of motion option, ran a ton of my motion from Wing Trips Wk to Split Y Offset, ran a few Jets out of Normal Flex Wing including one for a 31 yard TD.

 

[JSU Zack]

My thing is even with 7 minute quarters, you maybe get 65-75 plays. What's the point of having a maxed out playbook when you're really just going to run 15 or so concepts.

I like to have options and different looks, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's just complexity for complexity's sake.

 

[bruin228]

Trey, not Trio. Trio's pretty bad for passing plays.

 

[nofx94]

My thing is even with 7 minute quarters, you maybe get 65-75 plays. What's the point of having a maxed out playbook when you're really just going to run 15 or so concepts.

I like to have options and different looks, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's just complexity for complexity's sake.

Well it allows you different looks. Besides in the same game, over the course of a season or series it gives you more of an opportunity to be unpredictable, from an alignment standpoint on. You move the defense in space and at the LOS by your formations.

 

[TXHusker05]

My thing is even with 7 minute quarters, you maybe get 65-75 plays. What's the point of having a maxed out playbook when you're really just going to run 15 or so concepts.

I like to have options and different looks, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's just complexity for complexity's sake.

Because you'll never know what you're going to need. Especially in OD play when in a three week span I can face a 425, 335 and 43 defense with some people heavy on aggressive option D, others heavy on conservative option D, others blitz heavy, others not. I have different ways of attacking each, both with concepts and formations. Without any way to advance scout or know what someone may or may not run, it is tough to really trim things down.

In the past, I've tried to have 3-4 really slimmed down, specialized playbooks. That was when we were doing pre-season and in-season scouting reports in the ODs and I could have a pretty good idea going into a game what someone would run. I had a special playbook for people running 3-3-5, I had a special playbook just for facing @NavyHog who traditionally plays me with conservative option defense (the only one who does) and I had a "full" playbook for people rolling with even fronts. Since we stopped doing scouting reports, I just can't risk needing something and not having it.

In my case, my offenses are all about having a handful of run and pass concepts that I can read and run perfectly against any front/secondary combination and having those concepts repeated across every possible formation. I may only use a dozen of those formations in any given game, but knowing I have answers to anything is important. I like being able to poke and prod with a few different types of formations, see how the defense reacts and then start hammering away with the same formations.

In my game vs @NavyHog tonight, we were both running option offenses and I think both of us had 5 possessions a piece over the entire game. I scraped together 52 plays out of it because of two extraordinarily long scoring drives (one was 16 plays, 99 yards) but the possessions were minimized and plays minimized. I think he only ran 39 plays.

All 52 of my plays were out of the 13 formations I listed above and of the 52, I bet I ran 5 individual plays repeatedly for close to half. Split Y Offset Triple Left and Right, Motion Triple Left out of Trio Offset, Motion Triple Left out of Normal Offset and straight read option out of Wing Offset Wk. I was able to hammer away with those plays quite a bit and then augmented it with one or two plays out of all the other formations when the situation dictated it. A game like that is obviously a rare situation, but you just never know going into a game what you may need. I wouldn't consider my playbooks bloated, just big. All told, I probably only have 25 "unique" plays in any of my offenses, but multiplied across all the formations, it gets big.

I go into user v user games aiming to run 50 plays on offense (60 in CPU games). But without being able to advance scout or game plan, I need to make sure all the answers are within the offense. For my Spread I Triple, I'm at 26 formations and 275 plays but after this BSCFL season I'm going to go through and start ripping out the stuff I didn't run much of. Hopefully I can get it down to the 230-250 range. My Spread I Pro that I've been running in Powerhouse is around 34-350 just because I'm kind of grasping at straws for what works in regards to both my personnel and the extremely brutal sliders. I would also say pro offenses in general lead to bloated books.

Once this season of BSCFL ends I will be able to really streamline the triple option offense and I don't really need to worry about changes in recruits as all 6 of my FB/TE players are Sophomores and I have QB and HB depth. I'll rip out what I don't run, aim to really get it to the bare minimum and go from there. For Powerhouse, I have no clue. My entire offense returns but without knowing what the sliders are going to look like there, it is tough for me to plan anything.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

OK, so what are the benefits of the slot receiver being on the line versus off the line? Or is it just preference? Comments du not have necessarily be just game related, real life explanation would be welcomed too.

 

[PSUEagle]

OK, so what are the benefits of the slot receiver being on the line versus off the line? Or is it just preference? Comments du not have necessarily be just game related, real life explanation would be welcomed too.

I like it in real life because:

1. harder to get a jam on #1
2. easier for #2 or #3 (whoever's on) to get deep and clear things out for #1 on a deep in cut (my personal favorite route)
3. can short motion #1 to form a stack with #2 and run the usual combinations (Bench, Stick, etc)
4. If the offense motions into a formation, I like when a receiver motions across the formation (i.e. from right to left or vice versa) and motions outside the farthest receiver on the side he's going to. What this does is force the defense to either expand out (indicating zone) or have a CB/safety follow the guy all the way out (indicating man). You don't see teams do it as much today, but it was a Martz staple back in the day for that reason.

In the game it probably mattered more in NCAA 13 than NCAA 14, especially if you wanted to run concepts where #2 or #2 runs a Corner or Out (like Smash) and have those routes be effective against man.

In real life and in the game I prefer certain receivers to be on vs off based on concept. For instance, I'd like #2 to be on in Smash so that he can threaten the CB faster with the Flag route. Same thing with Double Slants. With Stick, I want #3 on (assuming trips) so he can get into the LB level faster. And with something like Flood, I prefer #1 to be on assuming he's the one running the clear out (Go or Skinny Post depending on which version).

For me I usually end up going with sets that have #2 or #3 on more often than #1 on, mostly because I prefer most of the concepts that work better with that setup IRL. I'd like a world where sets like Trey/Trio/Trips didn't exist and receivers went off/on based on play, but since it's not that way I make concessions and stick with certain sets.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

I like it in real life because:

1. harder to get a jam on #1
2. easier for #2 or #3 (whoever's on) to get deep and clear things out for #1 on a deep in cut (my personal favorite route)
3. can short motion #1 to form a stack with #2 and run the usual combinations (Bench, Stick, etc)
4. If the offense motions into a formation, I like when a receiver motions across the formation (i.e. from right to left or vice versa) and motions outside the farthest receiver on the side he's going to. What this does is force the defense to either expand out (indicating zone) or have a CB/safety follow the guy all the way out (indicating man). You don't see teams do it as much today, but it was a Martz staple back in the day for that reason.

In the game it probably mattered more in NCAA 13 than NCAA 14, especially if you wanted to run concepts where #2 or #2 runs a Corner or Out (like Smash) and have those routes be effective against man.

In real life and in the game I prefer certain receivers to be on vs off based on concept. For instance, I'd like #2 to be on in Smash so that he can threaten the CB faster with the Flag route. Same thing with Double Slants. With Stick, I want #3 on (assuming trips) so he can get into the LB level faster. And with something like Flood, I prefer #1 to be on assuming he's the one running the clear out (Go or Skinny Post depending on which version).

For me I usually end up going with sets that have #2 or #3 on more often than #1 on, mostly because I prefer most of the concepts that work better with that setup IRL. I'd like a world where sets like Trey/Trio/Trips didn't exist and receivers went off/on based on play, but since it's not that way I make concessions and stick with certain sets.

Handsome and intelligent, solely based on your team preference (and I'm not biased in any way). But seriously, great response. Thanks.

 

[nofx94]

I almost never use motion unless it's built into the play. It's lazy and uncreative of me but typically I'm pretty married to the setup I call from the huddle. I could use more variety.

 

[TXHusker05]

I almost never use motion unless it's built into the play. It's lazy and uncreative of me but typically I'm pretty married to the setup I call from the huddle. I could use more variety.

I used motion a ton prior to NCAA 14. Once they programmed the game to force manually motioned receivers to block or take like 5 seconds to start their route unless they were allowed to come set, I stopped. You used to be able to make some nasty route concepts motioning an outside receiver who was off the line in and snapping the ball right as he got behind the slot. That was the best way to counter the press whores that populate this game online. But of course EA got rid of it. The auto-motion pass concepts that are in game just don't do the trick.

I still do some manual motion though, I motion my H-Back back and forth in my Wing Offset formations, usually to get him in a better position to lead block for either the QB or HB. I'll also motion TEs back and forth to change the strength of the formation, especially to run something like Counter in Pistol. No real WR motion though. I'll occasionally motion a WR to try to create a crack block but it rarely, if ever, works.

 

[JSU Zack]

I wish there were more Y Off plays in NCAA like there is in the latest Madden. The Y lead plays (wham, counter, etc.) are downright deadly these days when teams like Bama & Michigan run them.

 

[Craig7835]

@JSU Zack

I attended my very first JSU today when they played Murray State. The Gamecocks kicked their asses & they ran your version of the Spread-I to a tee.I enjoyed watching them play

 

[nofx94]

I hate to think I've contributed too much to this thread and the spread thread (and the option thread) bleeding together too much schematically, but I just really enjoy talking videogame Xs and Os with y'all. I feel like I learn so much. Lol.

 

[PSUEagle]

I wish there were more Y Off plays in NCAA like there is in the latest Madden. The Y lead plays (wham, counter, etc.) are downright deadly these days when teams like Bama & Michigan run them.

I really like Ace Wing Trips for this reason: the Counter play in that set is a GY version (meaning Guard and TE pull), which is how most teams run the play IRL as opposed to the GT that's in the game.

I've had a check with me thing going for awhile where I'd run Counter if I got a single high safety (indicating the weak side DE is the contain player) and check to Off Tackle if it's two high with a CB rolled up tight to the boundary (indicating he's the force player). Note that in the latter instance I almost always flip the run to go towards the TE: because he's in a wing I've found that he'll end up combo-ing with the OT more rather than base blocking a DE, giving me a better opportunity for a bounce out.

 

[JSU Zack]

@JSU Zack

I attended my very first JSU today when they played Murray State. The Gamecocks kicked their asses & they ran your version of the Spread-I to a tee.I enjoyed watching them play

They've been kicking ass all year. Best games were Chattanooga and Auburn. Both times, the used zone & trap to run all over them.

 

[JSU Zack]

@JSU Zack

I attended my very first JSU today when they played Murray State. The Gamecocks kicked their asses & they ran your version of the Spread-I to a tee.I enjoyed watching them play

You got a good show with the band too. Reunion day is when they play all the favorites.

 

[Craig7835]

They've been kicking ass all year. Best games were Chattanooga and Auburn. Both times, the used zone & trap to run all over them.

They were using a little bit of that yesterday plus some Shallow Cross plays as well

 

[JSU Zack]

They were using a little bit of that yesterday plus some Shallow Cross plays as well

They're a run heavy air raid. The coach was a Rush Propst assistant when he was at Hoover in the early 00's.

 

[bruin228]

Run heavy air raid?

 

[JSU Zack]

Run heavy air raid?

Yep. All the passing concepts are Air Raid staples. Big plays off playaction. Almost exclusively 11 personnel with some 12 &10 mixed in.

They haven't used it as much this year, but they do some jet & buck stuff. The coach does a great job adapting every year to strengths and self scouting. They throw a lot more this year ~25 per game, but they typically rack up 300+ yards on the ground with just basic stuff. The war pigs kick ass, and the RB & QB are great runners.

 

[bruin228]

If you run more than you throw, you shouldn't be allowed to call yourself air raid.

 

[TXHusker05]

If you run more than you throw, you shouldn't be allowed to call yourself air raid.

An air raid with a strong infantry never hurt anyone.

Except Germany. And Japan.

 

[Craig7835]

@JSU Zack

What base defense does your team use? I noticed they used some 4-3 Over with some Big Nickel packages in.

 

[Craig7835]

 

[JSU Zack]

@JSU Zack

What base defense does your team use? I noticed they used some 4-3 Over with some Big Nickel packages in.

No 4-3 over. Chris Landrum (OLB) is basically a stand up DE. Very similar makeup to JPP in that regard.

David Blackwell calls the plays. Good, fiery guy every team needs at DC. JSU uses a 3-4 Over & Bear front on running downs. Nickel with two wide 9's on passing downs. The OVC is a passing league, so they keep 5 DBs on the field pretty often.

Very efficient on D. Mostly pattern match Cover 3 with Cover 2 Buc & Cover 4 mixed in. JSU is the only team I've seen in D-1 consistently stop every team's screen game. Last week, Landrum went ten yards from OLB to tackle a slot receiver on a bubble screen.

 

[Craig7835]

No 4-3 over. Chris Landrum (OLB) is basically a stand up DE. Very similar makeup to JPP in that regard.

David Blackwell calls the plays. Good, fiery guy every team needs at DC. JSU uses a 3-4 Over & Bear front on running downs. Nickel with two wide 9's on passing downs. The OVC is a passing league, so they keep 5 DBs on the field pretty often.

Very efficient on D. Mostly pattern match Cover 3 with Cover 2 Buc & Cover 4 mixed in. JSU is the only team I've seen in D-1 consistently stop every team's screen game. Last week, Landrum went ten yards from OLB to tackle a slot receiver on a bubble screen.

Yeah I saw ol' coach Black on the sideline hollering his fool head off lol.There was one play they came out in a Bear front but it had a Flex look to it. They also ran some Cover 2 Man in several plays that I saw.Murray State's QB was straight garbage in that game.He had his tight end WIDE open for 3 straight plays & didn't pass to him,so instead he checkdown to the running back for disasterous results. JSU's offense in the 1st play of the 4th quarter,the QB had every fooled the defense into thinking they were going play action but instead he faked the PA & took off straight up the middle for a 70 yard run.I wish I could upload the video but my damn phone went dead.

 

[nofx94]

As UC 20/21/22 stuff goes, do y'all prefer I or I-offsets? I find that I have a propensity to use strong much more than weak.

 

[JSU Zack]

As UC 20/21/22 stuff goes, do y'all prefer I or I-offsets? I find that I have a propensity to use strong much more than weak.

Almost never use weak. Strong has the most WCO concepts, but the twins formations lack inside zone. If I'm running a two back set, it's typically I because it has both outside & inside zone in every formation. But I do use Strong Normal, Close, and Y Over.

Y Over gives you a nice motion option with the FB to make what looks like a twin TE set that's unbalanced.