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Principles of Pro Style Offenses

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
To me it sounds like the sliders are the problem not the strategy. Why would you play on sliders that makes pasiing impossible? Forget undercenter, what if some wants to run air raid, or run and shoot, are they s.o.l?

I mean yeah your going to have problem with any type of prostyle offense if you can't pass. The numbers dont add up.

Allow me to beat a dead horse.

I've said QBA 5 was a bad idea from the day it was first suggested. The problem is the guys running ODs don't have a dog in the fight because spread passing has half the problems under center does due to less footwork/better protection. When 80% of your leave is a spread option team, you're considered a bitch for complaining. The result is everyone's a spread option team with a 5th grade passing game. *rant over*
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
It forces everyone to run the same plays... Screen left, screen right, hitch, rinse and repeat! Everyone is spread whether they admit it or not. You're not doing nothing through the air otherwise.

Then with blocking set like it is... You'd never finish your drop with a pro style offense. I keep saying... If it puts everyone that doesn't run that style of offense at a disadvantage... Why would they want to change it?

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fanoftgame

Active Member
Allow me to beat a dead horse.

I've said QBA 5 was a bad idea from the day it was first suggested. The problem is the guys running ODs don't have a dog in the fight because spread passing has half the problems under center does due to less footwork/better protection. When 80% of your leave is a spread option team, you're considered a bitch for complaining. The result is everyone's a spread option team with a 5th grade passing game. *rant over*

I guess I see your problem. Do normal handoffs in spread work? If so you can still adopt the same strategy to a prostyle spread offense. The same logic applies. I like run with two tes if you have at least one thats decent recieving the ball.

Line him up in the slot and use the mismatch and run oz and counters to his side. Also his alignment should pull lbs out of the box where you can exploit an open gap.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I guess I see your problem. Do normal handoffs in spread work? If so you can still adopt the same strategy to a prostyle spread offense. The same logic applies. I like run with two tes if you have at least one thats decent recieving the ball.

Line him up in the slot and use the mismatch and run oz and counters to his side. Also his alignment should pull lbs out of the box where you can exploit an open gap.
I've been trying this and it rarely works! In a gm yesterday I watched as on several runs the Cb or Safety just sidestepped the TE. He didn't really try to engage them at all. This is a TE with 80 pass and run block. Smh!

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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I've been trying this and it rarely works! In a gm yesterday I watched as on several runs the Cb or Safety just sidestepped the TE. He didn't really try to engage them at all. This is a TE with 80 pass and run block. Smh!

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In all honesty, you may have better luck with Madden 16. I have a Errickson style one back offense on there, and it is almost OP in the run game.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I may need to buy it... Haven't played Madden since 06 or 07

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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
This issue is the game, not the sliders. Sliders impact different plays/formations/backfield alignments differently. In order to make pass blocking good under center, it leads to it being massively overpowered in the gun. In order to make run blocking gun under center, same thing, it leads to it being incredibly overpowered in the gun. There was a year I averaged 400 yards rushing per game because we had cranked the run block slider up so other people could run the ball and that stopped quick.

QBA 5 is an all or nothing slider. If the QBA slider went up in increments of 1, this wouldn't be a problem. There would be a nice middle somewhere around 7 or 8 and we'd be fine. Unfortunately the choices are QBA 10 where everyone is able to complete 75%+ of their passes and QBA 5 which puts up more realistic passing numbers because of what the fuck moments that make you want to throw your controller through the screen. Why 5 and 10 are the only working options on a 0-100 slider, I do not know, but that is NCAA for you.

The biggest issue is that there is no real way to have "typical" incompletions. Passing isn't easy in real football, there is so many variables that have to go right from pass protection to route running to the actual throw and catch. In the game, we have to create incompletions via QBA 5's what the fuck moments and via drops. Both of those are infuriating to people because they are seemingly random and don't have any sort of reflection in ratings or stats or game situation. But without them, everyone would complete 75-85% of their passes, which is exactly what happens with the QBA slider at 10. That isn't fun at all. I think most of us would rather create artificial defense than have games that are just one dimensional pass fests.

Passing is not impossible with QBA at 5. @bruin228 was probably the most prolific passer in our ODs and he usually threw around 70%, but he ran a pretty true to life air raid. I typically sit around 60% running a pro option offense, although admittedly my passing game is very basic (screens, slants, spot, smash, verts).

I wish there were ways around this and a nice middle ground but there isn't. Recruited players coming in with vastly different skill sets than original roster players is another problem as well. The only other workable solution would be to go through and edit the rosters to lower the ratings of each player, specifically QBs and Kickers/Punters. That effort probably isn't worth it though and too be honest, I'm not entirely sure even the commissioner can edit the rosters and have them save. I remember trying early on in NCAA 14 and it wouldn't save it.

Basically, just have to work with what we have at this point. I suppose at one point we could try QBA 10 but with WR Catching dropped to like 0 and pass defense cranked up, but I just think that would create more issues.
 
Has anyone checkout NC State this year? Their offense is mesmerizing. Their first 3 three games are on YouTube in their entirety. I know they are playing inferior competition and this weekend will go a long way to show who they are, but damn they look good. The OC is Matt Canada, of Bert/Wisconsin fame, and it looks like the natural evolution of that offense, very multiple, tons of jet sweep/fakes, shifts, movement and even a little option sprinkled in. It's just tons of fun to watch!



 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
So after getting my ass handed to me last night by @TXHusker05 I went back to the drawing board again - this is almost a daily affair now. Current offense in the powerhouse OD has two great TEs, a statuesque but accurate QB, & a few fast receivers. So who does this sound like? The obvious answer is the Bama dynasty ('09-'12 RIP), PAWLLLLL.



So I went back and watched some film of Bama @ LSU in 2012. This was McElwain's last year as OC, McCarron's junior year, Lacey's senior year, & Cooper's freshman year. While the Alabama offense never got the credit it deserved during the championship runs, they were balanced & efficient for what many considered a grind it out team. In 2012, they were 4th in offensive S&P+. This year, they're first (WHAT?!) in the country, but I hate the way the offense is going away from its smashmouth identity.

So that brings us to the common concepts Bama runs:
Zone & Counter Trey in the running game (seriously, that's it)
A ton of playaction (waggle, verts, dagger, etc.)
Crossing routes for days (mesh, shallow cross, Y cross)
Perimeter passing on 1st down (snag, smash, spot, stick, curls, & fade/out)
HB screens & the occasional now/bubble screen

All of this comes out of 12, 11, & 22 personnel. Bama ran very little 4 WR sets and for good reason; they had athletes at TE that they moved all over the field (Vogler was the best example of this). They used under center, pistol, & the gun evenly and for few reasons other than to give the D a different look or change the QB's field of view.

Alabama of old based out of 12 personnel in a 2x2 formation (Ace Big in NCAA 14). They also used a bunch formation with two tight ends when they wanted to get the playaction game going.

My new playbook looks something like this:
[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Ace{/td}
{td}Pistol {/td}
{td}Gun {/td}
{td}I Form {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Big{/td}
{td}Ace{/td}
{td}Normal Flex{/td}
{td}Tight{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Big Twins{/td}
{td}Ace Twins{/td}
{td}Normal Y Flex{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Twin TE Slot{/td}
{td}Wing Over{/td}
{td}Y Trips HB Wk{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Twin TE{/td}
{td}Slot Flex{/td}
{td}Trio{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Wing Trio TE{/td}
{td}Trips{/td}
{td}Trips TE HB Wk{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Bunch Base (Twin TE){/td}
{td}Wing Trips{/td}
{td}Bunch HB Wk{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Slot Flex{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td}Empty Trey Flex - Packer{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Y Trips{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td}Ace{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td}Ace Twins{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td}Twin TE Slot{/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Here's what McElwain's offense looks at Florida with Doug Nussmeier at OC. This is last week's game vs. Rocky Top.

 
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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
The freeze frame on the Florida video is click bait if I've ever seen it.

The formations and concepts look good, I would just make sure you're getting that TE isolated around the field. Both as a WR (Gronk style) or as a TE away from twins/trips. That guy is too big and talented to not target 10+ times a game. Let Gronk be your guide @JSU Zack
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
The freeze frame on the Florida video is click bait if I've ever seen it.

The formations and concepts look good, I would just make sure you're getting that TE isolated around the field. Both as a WR (Gronk style) or as a TE away from twins/trips. That guy is too big and talented to not target 10+ times a game. Let Gronk be your guide @JSU Zack

Racks = views.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Went back and added a lot of 12 personnel sets to my cpb. Really want to make this a base of my offense. I played several cpu OD games yesterday. There is a lot you can do with this if you have 1 solid TE. Having two solid or one that's a beast... Takes it to another level!

But having two avg TE's or one below avg... and things go south quickly! I easily ran for over 200+ in my OD's with the solid TE's. I ran mostly counter and slam based on the looks the defense gave me.

In the OD with 1 solid TE... I struggled to get 100 yds rushing. Even though my offensive line is solid... The below avg TE caused all kinds of missed blocking assignments. I was hurried and sacked all game long. He just caused mass confusion.

His Ovr is not bad... But his blocking is 67 & 65. I didn't think it would be that bad. I thought his blocking was ok... Looking at the ratings. But in game it was really tough... Had to go to 11 personnel.

The cpu played like a user stacking the box and spreading out. Guys shot the gaps and dragged my back down from behind a dozen times. This never happened with the other games with solid TE"s. I had to go full on trips to make cpu defense change.



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@TXHusker05

What is Mike Riley doing with the Nebraska offense, one back stuff similar to what he was doing at Oregon State? I watched a bit of last week's game to catch the return of the fullback, quite enjoyable! Seems doubtful, but hopefully he continues to utilized the FB.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@TXHusker05

What is Mike Riley doing with the Nebraska offense, one back stuff similar to what he was doing at Oregon State? I watched a bit of last week's game to catch the return of the fullback, quite enjoyable! Seems doubtful, but hopefully he continues to utilized the FB.

The concepts are the same but they are dressing it up a bit differently. They've seemed to embrace the Gun a lot more, a few options concepts. Riley has always been inside zone, fly sweep plus a fairly diverse screen game, that's basically what it is now. A lot of H-back Gun stuff, split zone has been a staple this year out of just about every possible formation from single back under center with an H to two back under center with a true FB to spread gun stuff with an H. Maybe a few option plays a game as well, either as speed option or a read off split zone. Might see more of it in conference play.

Fly/jet sweep still there, both under center and now in the gun. The fly/jet has mostly been window dressing though, in part because De'Mornay Pierson-El has been injured and there really isn't another receiver who is an effective fly/jet type player. They actually give on fly/jet maybe twice a game, he's supposedly healthy this week though so it's possible that happens more.

The Southern Miss game did bring the return of the FB Trap, which was delightful. Wouldn't be shocked to see some more of that. They also started to run a bit more one back power both under center and in the gun. Don't think that was a big staple in the Oregon State offenses and it wasn't here for the first few games but they must have seen something with Southern Miss because there were a bunch of pull schemes used.

Pass game is the same, although Armstrong doesn't really seem to grasp it that well. He's better on the move rather than trying to do the standard drop back pro style passing game.

Biggest gripe is that play calling tends to get a little cute in plus territory, especially 20 and in. They don't seem to be confident in the ability to punch forward so there is a lot of cute stuff like end arounds, the occasional trick play and screens. Not sure if it is because they don't trust the OL or they just don't want to run as much, could be a bit of both. Pass protection has been god awful though, in part because of some weird protection schemes. The idea of having your tailback step to cut down a middle linebacker is sound... except when your tailback is 5'10", maybe 185. A lot of sacks/hurries have been caused because the back can't pick up a linebacker. I think they are starting to understand that and have been doing more roll out/sprint out stuff plus slide protection but it is still a worry. I don't think Newby is a particularly good tailback to begin with though, wish they'd give some other guys a crack at it.

All things considered I enjoy the offense. It is exactly what I figured it would be. Basically what they have done at Oregon State, but from the gun with option concepts that better take advantage of Armstrong's skills. Will be interesting to see how Pierson-El's return changes things. He was supposed to be a huge chunk of the offense.
 

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
@JSU Zack

No 3 TE sets under center? Feel like that was McElwain/Nussmeier's go to in the 4th when trying to run out the clock.

Tell me what your thought process is when it comes to choosing whether to call a play from the gun, pistol, or under center from the same formation. I've tried dabbling in pistol before but found that the only thing that might be better is the 5/7 step game along with that Horn play ("Strong Power" in the game). I've found that play action is way better under, 3 step is easier to execute (especially "Stick") and IZ/Dive hits quicker/harder.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
@JSU Zack

No 3 TE sets under center? Feel like that was McElwain/Nussmeier's go to in the 4th when trying to run out the clock.

Tell me what your thought process is when it comes to choosing whether to call a play from the gun, pistol, or under center from the same formation. I've tried dabbling in pistol before but found that the only thing that might be better is the 5/7 step game along with that Horn play ("Strong Power" in the game). I've found that play action is way better under, 3 step is easier to execute (especially "Stick") and IZ/Dive hits quicker/harder.

I left out the 3 TE sets because It's so difficult to recruit three 70+ TEs.

The main advantage of the pistol is the screen game while still allowing me to run to either side. I just wish stretch was everywhere.

The gun is there for pass pro.
 

fanoftgame

Active Member
Went back and added a lot of 12 personnel sets to my cpb. Really want to make this a base of my offense. I played several cpu OD games yesterday. There is a lot you can do with this if you have 1 solid TE. Having two solid or one that's a beast... Takes it to another level!

But having two avg TE's or one below avg... and things go south quickly! I easily ran for over 200+ in my OD's with the solid TE's. I ran mostly counter and slam based on the looks the defense gave me.

In the OD with 1 solid TE... I struggled to get 100 yds rushing. Even though my offensive line is solid... The below avg TE caused all kinds of missed blocking assignments. I was hurried and sacked all game long. He just caused mass confusion.

His Ovr is not bad... But his blocking is 67 & 65. I didn't think it would be that bad. I thought his blocking was ok... Looking at the ratings. But in game it was really tough... Had to go to 11 personnel.

The cpu played like a user stacking the box and spreading out. Guys shot the gaps and dragged my back down from behind a dozen times. This never happened with the other games with solid TE"s. I had to go full on trips to make cpu defense change.



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What happenes if you put the below avg te in the slot. By alignment he should block his man and if they go nickle he has a blocking mismatch to his side.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
What happenes if you put the below avg te in the slot. By alignment he should block his man and if they go nickle he has a blocking mismatch to his side.
Haven't tried it!

I usually just put my good TE there.. Heh, funny that it nvr crossed my mind. I've tried twin TE from SG Normal and flex.. but didn't care for it. The TE usually let his guy run through freely while looking for a safety or just running up field blocking no one.

But, if I put him as X or Z should work pretty good setting the edge... I hope!

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Craig7835

Well-Known Member
I've been noticing that Memphis head coach Justin Fuente is using some Erhardt Perkins elements in his offense like he did back when he was OC at TCU but with a few Sid Gillman packages. They'll mix with Spread,One Back everything & it's working .The Tigers haven't racked up points like this since the DeAngelo Williams days
 
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fanoftgame

Active Member
Haven't tried it!

I usually just put my good TE there.. Heh, funny that it nvr crossed my mind. I've tried twin TE from SG Normal and flex.. but didn't care for it. The TE usually let his guy run through freely while looking for a safety or just running up field blocking no one.

But, if I put him as X or Z should work pretty good setting the edge... I hope!

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Yea the only thing about putting them at x or z they maybe so wide that it won't matter anyway. If you are going to do it. Make sure they are to the boundary where they are close enough to have an effect.

Thats why I like them in slot they are close that can get a block but far enough away they arent point of attack so you only look to bounce it behind the if they have a mismatch.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
After my last game vs @LEGEND where I had to throw 30+ times to win because my run game is garbage, I'm kind of thinking about ways to be more pass based. The previous owner was clearly pass heavy and I think that just fits the personnel a bit better. My receivers have been shockingly good, with the 3rd and 4th WR stepping up big time. My backs are bad and I need to get this converted QB out in space. He can't juke or spin which really limits what I can do in the run game, I need to get him the ball out wide where it is just straight ahead running.

Guess the question is how to I throw more? In NCAA, people who want to throw pretty much default to spread gun formations and air raid. I can't really afford to do that with my depth. Even if I used my TE at WR and the QB/HB at WR, I would still only really have 6 players I trust to play receiver and I need 2 of them to play other positions. I'm trying to think of some pro-style offenses to base off of that are more pass to run but take advantage of multiple formations but without sacrificing the option concepts.

I feel like something similar to what the Packers do isn't far off from where I should be, but I'm not sure how well that can be replicated in game. They do a bunch of H-Back stuff and the H-Back stuff in the game doesn't exactly come with a lot of pass concepts. If I focus more on college systems, I really like what Utah does offensively, which isn't a whole lot different from what Utah did with Urban Meyer and Alex Smith. I always liked what Malzahn did with Morris and Herb Hand under Todd Graham at Tulsa. That was a nasty offense that threw a bunch. Maybe that's a good place to start since it could probably be done within the framework of my current offense.

I mainly want to get one big WR and my TE involved in the pass game more. I struggle getting them the ball and I'm not really sure how to go about fixing that.
 

fanoftgame

Active Member
After my last game vs @LEGEND where I had to throw 30+ times to win because my run game is garbage, I'm kind of thinking about ways to be more pass based. The previous owner was clearly pass heavy and I think that just fits the personnel a bit better. My receivers have been shockingly good, with the 3rd and 4th WR stepping up big time. My backs are bad and I need to get this converted QB out in space. He can't juke or spin which really limits what I can do in the run game, I need to get him the ball out wide where it is just straight ahead running.

Guess the question is how to I throw more? In NCAA, people who want to throw pretty much default to spread gun formations and air raid. I can't really afford to do that with my depth. Even if I used my TE at WR and the QB/HB at WR, I would still only really have 6 players I trust to play receiver and I need 2 of them to play other positions. I'm trying to think of some pro-style offenses to base off of that are more pass to run but take advantage of multiple formations but without sacrificing the option concepts.

I feel like something similar to what the Packers do isn't far off from where I should be, but I'm not sure how well that can be replicated in game. They do a bunch of H-Back stuff and the H-Back stuff in the game doesn't exactly come with a lot of pass concepts. If I focus more on college systems, I really like what Utah does offensively, which isn't a whole lot different from what Utah did with Urban Meyer and Alex Smith. I always liked what Malzahn did with Morris and Herb Hand under Todd Graham at Tulsa. That was a nasty offense that threw a bunch. Maybe that's a good place to start since it could probably be done within the framework of my current offense.

I mainly want to get one big WR and my TE involved in the pass game more. I struggle getting them the ball and I'm not really sure how to go about fixing that.


Wasn't the old byu air raid a lot 21 and 11 personel stuff
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Wasn't the old byu air raid a lot 21 and 11 personel stuff

It was, I actually considered some split gun stuff with a TE in the backfield in the sort of FB/H role but I'm not sure I'd be able to get the ball to him. I'd be better off with wing gun, easier to get him the ball.

I'm leaning towards just doing the same thing Malzahn did at Tulsa and when that random white dude was quarterback at Auburn, same formations and concepts just a bunch more passing. Some Pistol as well. I've been looking at some under center Ace/Strong (H) stuff, but it is hard to find concepts I like. The playbooks site used to be so useful for just finding where certain plays/concepts are and searching by personnel, having to search within the playbook creator in game sucks.

The one thing I know I can't keep trying to do is force these heavy 21/12 personnel formations with this team. I cannot run the football at all out of compressed sets and there's no sense using them just to pass.

I'm going to see if I can get away with a 50/50 Pistol/Offset Gun playbook and then start pulling formations and plays out.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
@JSU Zack How is your Bama offense coming along? I'm thinking of doing something similar but with my own spin and when do you like to go under center as opposed to pistol or shotgun?

It's coming a long great. I'm still doing some tweaking, but some new plays have emerged as the keys to my offense as counters to what a lot of users play on defense.

I'm probably a 50/10/40 split right now re: QB depth. I go under center to run the dang bawlllll, Pawllllll, and to get the playaction game working. Gun is there for blitzing defenses. Pistol is there for teams that overplay the non-RB side when I'm in gun.

If a defense doesn't cause me many problems, I'll stay under center until they force me out of it.

My only real issue with this offense is the lack of zone split plays from the pistol 2 back sets. Madden has a shit ton split plays out of Pistol Weak/Strong & Strong I under center. That natural cut back lane is deadly.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
It was, I actually considered some split gun stuff with a TE in the backfield in the sort of FB/H role but I'm not sure I'd be able to get the ball to him. I'd be better off with wing gun, easier to get him the ball.

I'm leaning towards just doing the same thing Malzahn did at Tulsa and when that random white dude was quarterback at Auburn, same formations and concepts just a bunch more passing. Some Pistol as well. I've been looking at some under center Ace/Strong (H) stuff, but it is hard to find concepts I like. The playbooks site used to be so useful for just finding where certain plays/concepts are and searching by personnel, having to search within the playbook creator in game sucks.

The one thing I know I can't keep trying to do is force these heavy 21/12 personnel formations with this team. I cannot run the football at all out of compressed sets and there's no sense using them just to pass.

I'm going to see if I can get away with a 50/50 Pistol/Offset Gun playbook and then start pulling formations and plays out.
IMHO... the reason you passed so well against me was because I was so afraid of your run game! I sold out to stop you from gashing me. Once you where able to make big plays passing...I had to back off.

I know you're a run 1st, 2nd, and 3rd type of player... So I kept looking for you to run. Had to pick my poison! I rather force you to pass for 300 yds then have you cash me for 300 rushing.

Just my opinion... but I wouldn't change much if I was you.

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It's coming a long great. I'm still doing some tweaking, but some new plays have emerged as the keys to my offense as counters to what a lot of users play on defense.

I'm probably a 50/10/40 split right now re: QB depth. I go under center to run the dang bawlllll, Pawllllll, and to get the playaction game working. Gun is there for blitzing defenses. Pistol is there for teams that overplay the non-RB side when I'm in gun.

If a defense doesn't cause me many problems, I'll stay under center until they force me out of it.

My only real issue with this offense is the lack of zone split plays from the pistol 2 back sets. Madden has a shit ton split plays out of Pistol Weak/Strong & Strong I under center. That natural cut back lane is deadly.

Are you only using the 3 running concepts you mentioned earlier: iz, oz and counter? Also, are you using the same formations or have you tweaked that as well?
 
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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Are you only using the 3 running concepts you mentioned earlier: iz, oz and counter? Also, are you using the same formations or have you tweaked that as well?

It's been tweaked, teased, & tasered. I'm planning on writing an e-book called "How to lose in NCAA but be schematically sound" over the course of the next week. It will be free unless you want to just give me money for shitty advice.:thumbsup:
 
It's been tweaked, teased, & tasered. I'm planning on writing an e-book called "How to lose in NCAA but be schematically sound" over the course of the next week. It will be free unless you want to just give me money for shitty advice.:thumbsup:

O boy, so that scheme isn't working either thus killing all hopes of a successful pro style offense in this game!?!?
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
O boy, so that scheme isn't working either thus killing all hopes of a successful pro style offense in this game!?!?

It's actually done quite well and keeps me in the game. I passed for 300+ yards and rushed for 180 in my last OD game, but my defense is a different story...
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
IMHO... the reason you passed so well against me was because I was so afraid of your run game! I sold out to stop you from gashing me. Once you where able to make big plays passing...I had to back off.

I know you're a run 1st, 2nd, and 3rd type of player... So I kept looking for you to run. Had to pick my poison! I rather force you to pass for 300 yds then have you cash me for 300 rushing.

Just my opinion... but I wouldn't change much if I was you.

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Unfortunately that is the same approach everyone takes against me. Typically I have the personnel where I can just blunt force my way into rushing yardage, not really the case here. I'll still be running the ball, I just need a good answer through the air.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
My offense is garbage right now at Nebraska and I have no idea how to make it better. The personnel don't fit, there is no depth and my recruiting is going to be awful. I'm trying to make it work but I have no idea how. @Walter323 shut me down completely and I was just outmatched from the start, I beat Sands 40-0 and had the ball literally 75% of the game (21 of 28 minutes) and barely cracked 300 yards and had to kick 4 FG and score a defensive touchdown for half of that.

I decided to go pro pass vs Walter using the same base playbook I have been. My QB started bad and the game went bad in a hurry. Defense kept me in it but still a loss. I decided to take the same pro pass offense into the next game vs Sands, but with the added focus of jet/fly sweep because I feel like that's the only run play that has really been doing anything for me this season. And the jet sweep stuff worked, but the passing was garbage. QB started bad again, got replaced by the running QB and I ended up running Pistol option/jet/fly and had to grind out 3-4 yards a play. Luckily my defense owned that game.

I'm kind of at a loss here. I don't have the personnel and I don't know how I can even get the personnel. I would hate to bail on Nebraska but I'm not totally sure I'll ever be able to make this work. I'm going to keep trying but this is kicking my ass. Can't consistently throw because my QB sucks, can't consistently run because my offensive line and running backs suck.

I feel like I'm on to something with Jet and Fly Sweep, I just don't know how to apply it. I ran a TON of end around, Ace Big/Weak I Fly Sweep and Jet vs Sands and they were my best runs. I ran every Jet play I had in the book. Even had a huge run out of Jet Wildcat. Maybe that's my answer, just go to form of the Gun Wing T I talked about before. Or just do whatever until the season ends and then find what works next year.
 

fanoftgame

Active Member
My offense is garbage right now at Nebraska and I have no idea how to make it better. The personnel don't fit, there is no depth and my recruiting is going to be awful. I'm trying to make it work but I have no idea how. @Walter323 shut me down completely and I was just outmatched from the start, I beat Sands 40-0 and had the ball literally 75% of the game (21 of 28 minutes) and barely cracked 300 yards and had to kick 4 FG and score a defensive touchdown for half of that.

I decided to go pro pass vs Walter using the same base playbook I have been. My QB started bad and the game went bad in a hurry. Defense kept me in it but still a loss. I decided to take the same pro pass offense into the next game vs Sands, but with the added focus of jet/fly sweep because I feel like that's the only run play that has really been doing anything for me this season. And the jet sweep stuff worked, but the passing was garbage. QB started bad again, got replaced by the running QB and I ended up running Pistol option/jet/fly and had to grind out 3-4 yards a play. Luckily my defense owned that game.

I'm kind of at a loss here. I don't have the personnel and I don't know how I can even get the personnel. I would hate to bail on Nebraska but I'm not totally sure I'll ever be able to make this work. I'm going to keep trying but this is kicking my ass. Can't consistently throw because my QB sucks, can't consistently run because my offensive line and running backs suck.

I feel like I'm on to something with Jet and Fly Sweep, I just don't know how to apply it. I ran a TON of end around, Ace Big/Weak I Fly Sweep and Jet vs Sands and they were my best runs. I ran every Jet play I had in the book. Even had a huge run out of Jet Wildcat. Maybe that's my answer, just go to form of the Gun Wing T I talked about before. Or just do whatever until the season ends and then find what works next year.

I dunno about that jet sweep stuff. I have played a ton of user games and I have never seen that stuff work as part of someones base offense. I dont feel the blocking is consistent enough even when you have the optimal look.

Just my .02
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I dunno about that jet sweep stuff. I have played a ton of user games and I have never seen that stuff work as part of someones base offense. I dont feel the blocking is consistent enough even when you have the optimal look.

Just my .02

I always have a ton of success with Jet and Fly Sweep, but I assume that is because the base of my offense is inside zone and people are loaded up inside. I ran the hell out of Jet/Fly vs @SandS2910 and it was my best run play.

I think I had a 70 yard TD run off Wildcat Jet, a few ~10 yard gains on Ace or Weak I Fly Sweep and a few decent cut-up plays out of offset jet. Plus a couple good dive plays off of fly motion in Ace and Weak.

The question is, if that stuff becomes the "base" of my offense, does it get stopped more easily than if it stays as a change of pace look. And, if I do use it as a base, what is my change of pace off of it? Offset Gun has good Fk Jet Dive plays but traditional gun doesn't. I could use PA Jet but then I get into the whole my team can't throw for shit thing.

I don't know. If I base in traditional gun plus Wildcat, I think there is enough to make it work. But I would lose a lot of my good Pistol/Offset stuff. Either way, I need more east-west to my offense because my team is just not good enough to grind it out north-south and try and blunt force big plays.
 

SandS2910

Well-Known Member
I always have a ton of success with Jet and Fly Sweep, but I assume that is because the base of my offense is inside zone and people are loaded up inside. I ran the hell out of Jet/Fly vs @SandS2910 and it was my best run play.

I think I had a 70 yard TD run off Wildcat Jet, a few ~10 yard gains on Ace or Weak I Fly Sweep and a few decent cut-up plays out of offset jet. Plus a couple good dive plays off of fly motion in Ace and Weak.

The question is, if that stuff becomes the "base" of my offense, does it get stopped more easily than if it stays as a change of pace look. And, if I do use it as a base, what is my change of pace off of it? Offset Gun has good Fk Jet Dive plays but traditional gun doesn't. I could use PA Jet but then I get into the whole my team can't throw for shit thing.

I don't know. If I base in traditional gun plus Wildcat, I think there is enough to make it work. But I would lose a lot of my good Pistol/Offset stuff. Either way, I need more east-west to my offense because my team is just not good enough to grind it out north-south and try and blunt force big plays.
Nah, I was speaking my safeties and lb's out to stop that and bringing 8 every play.... I really thought you might pass it more... With that being said-run block should be lower, out qb reading should be higher. One of the two

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Nah, I was speaking my safeties and lb's out to stop that and bringing 8 every play.... I really thought you might pass it more... With that being said-run block should be lower, out qb reading should be higher. One of the two

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I think everyone plays him the same... Everyone knows he's run heavy. I think it's a problem only because he doesn't have a solid passing Qb.

A win is a win @TXHusker05!

Better to win ugly than lose pretty! Just my opinion.

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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Ace book is where I want it now. RB ran for 180 yards last night & the QB passed for around that much too. Perfect balance of what I want to do.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I always have a ton of success with Jet and Fly Sweep, but I assume that is because the base of my offense is inside zone and people are loaded up inside. I ran the hell out of Jet/Fly vs @SandS2910 and it was my best run play.

I think I had a 70 yard TD run off Wildcat Jet, a few ~10 yard gains on Ace or Weak I Fly Sweep and a few decent cut-up plays out of offset jet. Plus a couple good dive plays off of fly motion in Ace and Weak.

The question is, if that stuff becomes the "base" of my offense, does it get stopped more easily than if it stays as a change of pace look. And, if I do use it as a base, what is my change of pace off of it? Offset Gun has good Fk Jet Dive plays but traditional gun doesn't. I could use PA Jet but then I get into the whole my team can't throw for shit thing.

I don't know. If I base in traditional gun plus Wildcat, I think there is enough to make it work. But I would lose a lot of my good Pistol/Offset stuff. Either way, I need more east-west to my offense because my team is just not good enough to grind it out north-south and try and blunt force big plays.

Idk if you've noticed this yet, but the end around out of Ace Twin TE has a weird WR split that isn't the same as the Slash Fk or the PA pass out of that set. Just a suggestion that if you have that one to gut it. It has a nice wing TE slice block, but it's a dead giveaway.
 
Ace book is where I want it now. RB ran for 180 yards last night & the QB passed for around that much too. Perfect balance of what I want to do.

I've been doing this, ala Joe Gibbs and his "East Coast Offense", out of pistol and love it. I am gonna follow your lead and make a multiple oneback book for shits and giggles.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Went back to my Erickson one back offense! Swapped some formations... And seem to be rolling along nicely. I was trying to do too much... Had to cut back on trying to run the entire playbook.

Still can use some more trimming... But I like it's feel.

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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Nah, I was speaking my safeties and lb's out to stop that and bringing 8 every play.... I really thought you might pass it more... With that being said-run block should be lower, out qb reading should be higher. One of the two

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I want to pass it more but it just isn't working. I wanted to throw more screens against you but you were giving me some weird alignments that made me a little unsure what the coverage was and I didn't want to throw a screen into an interception.

I'm just caught in between right now. There are a bunch of things I really like doing, but doing it all together isn't the best. I need to just pick something and run with it. Just don't know what.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Spent the night creating a traditional gun/wildcat jet Wing T style offense to use annnnnd that sucked. I ran for 431 yards and 4 TD, but barely 70 of that was via Jet Sweep or any corresponding plays. The majority of that came on option and QB Power just trying to eek out a 38-35 win against a garbage CPU controlled UNLV team. Admittedly the CPU plays Jet a little differently than humans do but if I was getting smashed up front by UNLV, users would eat it alive as a primary offense.

The playbook was entirely traditional gun and wildcat and the only stuff that worked was option and straight QB power. A few Jet Counters worked including one for a TD, but that was more of a factor of just out-manning UNLV rather than necessarily good scheme. I threw 5 INT in the game and only threw for 76 yards because I can't pass for shit out of that offense. I ended up moving the QB turned HB back to QB for the entire second half. He threw 4 of 7 for just 25 yards but did run for 181 and 4 TD. I started my backup QB in the game since he's a runner, and he ran well, 8 for 63... but threw 3 INT in just 9 pass attempts.

I'm about to say screw it and just run whatever until the season ends. This is a disaster all the way around. My defense is carrying me all season, I just need to run an offense that can hold the ball, control the clock and not screw up until I can get some better personnel. I'll probably just keep running my Pistol Spread I and try to 3 yards and a cloud of dust people.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Don't feel bad. I built an all-pistol one back book last night in Madden 16 and got hammered by the CPU. How does 130 yards rushing and 190 yards passing sound? Blah...

I'm almost to the point of pulling a Nick Saban and joining the herd of spread clones.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Tested out my new and improved passing game against two users last night!

Went much better than expected! Even on 5 Qba... I made a lot of throws that I usually don't. I missed a couple throws that hurt me... On those throws I resulted to my old ways. Looking forward to trying plays that I was too afraid to try before.



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