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Principles of Pro Style Offenses

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Some of my best TE's where 69 ovr! I recruited two 6'8" beast... One was extremely athletic and the other was athletic enough! I eventually moved the 1st to WR in pos changes.

That was a mistake! LoL

He took a big hit and was never quite the same. He did put up numbers though!

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Yeah with TEs, it is better to just leave them. You can still put them on the WR depth chart and/or formation sub/package them around but moving them officially to WR always seems to cause issues. I assume it is something in the athleticism ratings that ends up taking a hit.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Only thing I feel I'm lacking or falling short with is my screen game. I have a couple nice wr screens that I create HB screens from. They usually work very well... I know I don't use them enough!

I need to run more bubble screens too! I might run one every 3-4 games. I really need to spend some time working on that!

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
What concepts are you running?

I fooled around with a few concept books last night and stalled out on offense. Old school one back IZ/OZ ONLY (no counter, read, etc.). Mostly Air Raid concepts with Dagger added in.

Here are the formations in the new book:
Ace Slot Flex
Ace Y Trips
Ace Trips
Ace Bunch Swap
Ace Big
Ace Big Close
Ace Big Twins
Ace Jumbo
I Tight
Gun Normal Flex
Gun Y Trips HB Wk
Gun Trio HB Wk
Gun Bunch HB Str
Gun Normal Y Slot
Here are my formations:
Ace Slot
Ace Y Trips
Ace Trips
Ace Bunch
Ace Big
Ace Big Flip
Ace Twin TE
Ace Jumbo
Ace Spread
Pistol Ace
Pistol Trips 4 Wr
Pistol Strong slot
Gun Normal
Gun. Normal HB Wk
Gun Bunch HB Str
Gun Normal Y Slot
Gun Trips TE offset

As you can see... my formations are the same or very similar. Since I run stretch a lot.. the play action off stretch is killer!

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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Here are my formations:
Ace Slot
Ace Y Trips
Ace Trips
Ace Bunch
Ace Big
Ace Big Flip
Ace Twin TE
Ace Jumbo
Ace Spread
Pistol Ace
Pistol Trips 4 Wr
Pistol Strong slot
Gun Normal
Gun. Normal HB Wk
Gun Bunch HB Str
Gun Normal Y Slot
Gun Trips TE offset

As you can see... my formations are the same or very similar. Since I run stretch a lot.. the play action off stretch is killer!

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Gun Normal HB Wk has a killer bubble off of OZ action so if you're looking for bubble, I'd start there for sure. If you want it as a quick audible, you'll probably have to remove every other PA in the formation though.

Ace Spread has a draw bubble, bubble, bubble slant combo of plays that might be interesting for you. I've never really been fond of running bubble under center because the QB tends to get weird but if you can make it work it is great.

Also look at Pistol Weak Slot, has some great air raid concepts including 3 HB auto-motion plays out of the backfield. Add in Draw, Dive and Lead Read as your 3 runs. Make the only PA in the formation Bubble, put one of your TEs in the backfield at FB and you're good to go.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?

Lane Kiffin used this a lot with Cooper and now Ridley. PA Slant Bubble is great on any down. All you have to do is read the alley defender.

In real life, this is typically an RPO.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Just lost to a guy in madden that all he did was FB dive, toss, and mesh. Three fucking plays. My god, EA.
Heh, I remember nearly losing to a guy in a ranked match on NCAA 14. All he did was throw hb screens... Literally! Screen left screen right the entire game. Another guy ran counter from wing formations the entire game.... And only mixed in read option here and there.

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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Heh, I remember nearly losing to a guy in a ranked match on NCAA 14. All he did was throw hb screens... Literally! Screen left screen right the entire game. Another guy ran counter from wing formations the entire game.... And only mixed in read option here and there.

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What I don't understand is people actually consider that fun. What's worse is EA celebrates this style of play.

For those of you that remember NY_KIA31, he still streams on Twitch and uploads his gameplay to YouTube. He typically doesn't discuss the game he's playing but instead talks about meta football/Madden topics.

His reaction to the EA SPORTS MADDEN CHALLENGE DERP was spot on. The guy that won the tournament called the same two run plays (strong power & counter) and relied on three passes the whole tournament.

The commentators said he was "sick on the sticks" with his usered off-the-line DE.

What's worse was he was be most "sim" player there. GTFO with that lobby shit.

What did he say after he won? "I spent three years in my parent's basement training for this."

How much money did he win? $10,000. He wasted three years for $10,000. That doesn't even buy a Scion.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
If EA has a "competitive gaming" division, this type of ass hattery has to end. Anyone that knows anything about football can see these "competitive gamers" picked up their schemes from the money play dairy farm. ZFarls and those guys are jokes.

Did I mention all the players at the tournament were in hoodies and sweatpants? The hosts weren't much better. An exec signed off on this?
 

Craig7835

Well-Known Member
If EA has a "competitive gaming" division, this type of ass hattery has to end. Anyone that knows anything about football can see these "competitive gamers" picked up their schemes from the money play dairy farm. ZFarls and those guys are jokes.

Did I mention all the players at the tournament were in hoodies and sweatpants? The hosts weren't much better. An exec signed off on this?
I follow ZFarls on youtube,but the guy that I like watching is 4wardProgressMadden. Dude is very DETAILED just like @NY_KIA31 on schemes & stuff of that nature.He doesn't believe in all that Money Plays & Money Routes BS
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Was introduced to some new Ideas yesterday for my offense... Thanks to @Noles run wild!

Going to completely overhaul my playbook again! LoL

It served me well in both user games last night... But I liked stuff we worked on.



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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
@JSU Zack

You could try thegamingtailgate, but I haven't been there in years so I'm not even sure if he's active anymore.

We had a lot of great communication a few years ago (he was able to get a couple of my ideas into the game which was pretty cool) but I think he grew frustrated at the whole process and how things work over in EA land. @Travis7401 will tell you: the guy who handles the playbooks for both series is a total fucking dolt who doesn't know what he doesn't know, if you get what I'm saying.
Quick update on this. I contacted the admin over there, and he didn't have any info on One Back. I'm talking with another user that used to play with him, but the trail may be cold.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I have a series I run usually once a gm or every other game.... Where I go HUNH. It's usually very effective and leads to a score every time. It's basically 3-4 formations... Trey TE offset, Gun Normal Y slot, and Gun Empty spread. Every now and then I'll run an Ace formation also... Either Ace slot or Y-trips!

Decided to take a page from TXHusker05 playbook and go light speed. I've noticed my reads are much better.. I've also broken some big runs! Played two users and noticed offense was much more efficient.

Besides the efficiency the biggest advantage for me is.... I can dictate if it's a quick strike or 10-15 play drive. So I can be ball control while being fully uptempo!

I'm working on going lightning speed full time. I tried it in two cpu games last night. In the first game... I used the three basic formations I always use and threw for 400+ and ran for 300+

Just about all the runs where big plays the usually went to the house. In the second game I combined the three basic formations with UC Ace Slot, Trips, Spread, and y slot.

I don't remember those stats but it was definitely morning drawn out 15-17 play drives. I'm gonna continue working on this.

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I have a series I run usually once a gm or every other game.... Where I go HUNH. It's usually very effective and leads to a score every time. It's basically 3-4 formations... Trey TE offset, Gun Normal Y slot, and Gun Empty spread. Every now and then I'll run an Ace formation also... Either Ace slot or Y-trips!

Decided to take a page from TXHusker05 playbook and go light speed. I've noticed my reads are much better.. I've also broken some big runs! Played two users and noticed offense was much more efficient.

Besides the efficiency the biggest advantage for me is.... I can dictate if it's a quick strike or 10-15 play drive. So I can be ball control while being fully uptempo!

I'm working on going lightning speed full time. I tried it in two cpu games last night. In the first game... I used the three basic formations I always use and threw for 400+ and ran for 300+

Just about all the runs where big plays the usually went to the house. In the second game I combined the three basic formations with UC Ace Slot, Trips, Spread, and y slot.

I don't remember those stats but it was definitely morning drawn out 15-17 play drives. I'm gonna continue working on this.

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Do you have an Xbone/Madden? Interested in playing you in the newer game. Otherwise, we should lab soon on NCAA.
 
Last night was pretty interesting. I'm working on diversifying the run game a little bit by adding Trap to my core runs. I studied Dino Babers ('Cuse HC) and his guide to offensive gameplanning, which is an excellent read.

Against an online opponent (cheese ball), I started out my first drive running Iso, IZ, and then an incomplete pass for a 3 & out. I did this to mess with his head and test his interior defense. The 2nd drive, I started by a 50-yard Trap run. That set the tone for the rest of the game and gave me mostly 1-high looks.

As most of you know, I'm more of a pass first guy when I run a more traditional offense, but I'm still a firm believer in the running game. Ideally, my back will have around 15 carries. If I run more than that, the game typically doesn't go well for me.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Do you have an Xbone/Madden? Interested in playing you in the newer game. Otherwise, we should lab soon on NCAA.
We could lab anytime! Haven't sprung for a Xbone yet... The two games I play (MW3 & NCAA) aren't on there! Haven't played Madden since 07... I just enjoyed NCAA much more!

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How many formations have a package moving the TE2 out wide? My backup is the much better reciever but I dont know how to get him out wide without making him the #1 which Id rather not do
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
How many formations have a package moving the TE2 out wide? My backup is the much better reciever but I dont know how to get him out wide without making him the #1 which Id rather not do
I can't think of any that puts TE2 at receiver, outside of the Dual TE packages that put both TEs in the slot in Spread Flex/Spread formations.

Why don't you want to put him at TE1? Always put your best receiving tight end at TE1, regardless of his overall ratings. It just works better and it is so much easier to manipulate some combination of packages to get the receiver all over the field and a blocking TE at TE2 as a true on the line TE. The way packages are set up, pretty much every single formation in the game has at least one of the following:

TE Sub
TE Flip
TE Slot
TE Solo

If your TE1 is the receiver, that lets you do anything you could want with him as a receiver while being able to get a blocking TE as a pseudo-6th OL or replacing the receiving TE all together (TE Sub).

Never be afraid to put lesser OVR players at the top of your depth chart, OVR very rarely is a true indicator of a player's skill level or their fit in what you're trying to accomplish offensively. I doubt I've played a single season of an OD in NCAA where my depth chart was ordered best OVR players top to bottom at every position, even on defense.

The OVR rating formula for each position is different, weighing certain individual ratings excessively. Awareness in particular is a rating that carries excessive weight for some positions, in some cases rating OVR +1 just by going up 2. QB and HB are most notable, AWR is arguably the most weighted rating for QBs but for a user, AWR has 0 impact on gameplay because you user control the player the second you snap the ball. AWR is canceled out. I actually normalize every position's ratings independent of awareness when I do depth charts. It helps immensely.

The quirks of who to play where on both sides of the ball in NCAA is one of the many, many things I've spent way too many hours of my life figuring out. Examples:

- My most athletic HB, regardless of OVR, is HB1 for the same reason my most athletic TE is TE1... it's easier to use packages to move them around the field.

- My best press break WR is WR1, no matter how good his ratings are because that position is almost always on the LOS or split to the solo side in my offense. My most athletic WR is WR3, again, regardless of other ratings. Sometimes that means my best OVR WR is WR3, sometimes it means my 4th best OVR WR is WR1.

- My best acceleration OL plays RG, my best impact block OL plays LG (because I don't flip formations and only run Counter one direction).

- My quickest DE plays RE and my best block shredding run stopping DL plays LE (most users have a tendency to run the ball to the camera's right, so I want my RE to be quick enough to chase plays down from behind and my LE to set the edge). The reverse is true for DTs, my best pass rusher is DT1, my best run blocker is DT2. I don't shift my fronts often so both DT play a 2-tech most of the game, I feel like doing it that way compliments the DEs better and my DTs routinely lead my team in sacks and TFL because of it.

- I play a field corner and a boundary corner, using CB Flip to put my best coverage corner to the wide side of the field. If there is no real difference between coverage ratings of my two corners, I won't bother. Except...

- When my best coverage corner is also my best tackling corner. Because I tend to play 4 CB on the field in my 425 (2 CB at SS1 and SS2) when depth allows it, I prefer to have my best tackling CB at SS.

- My best tackling DB overall, regardless of position, will always play FS. That's who I user control nearly all game and I need that guy to be a sure tackler because if I miss a tackle with him, I'm screwed. Typically it works out that my best tackling DB is my FS by default just through recruiting and position changes, but there have been times I've played a SS, CB or even athletic LB at FS in my 425. I won the National Championship in Powerhouse last season playing with 3 and even 4 LB on the field in my 425 by default because 1 played SS2 and 1 was my backup at both safety positions.

All that stuff really proves is that I spent way too much time figuring out the quirks of this stupid game, but if they handed out post graduate degrees in NCAA I'd have a double doctorate by now.
 

Wolfman21

Well-Known Member
Anyone had any luck with power backs in this game? I've always recruited speed backs because it's easier to out run guys than run them over but I wanna start goin after power guys
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Anyone had any luck with power backs in this game? I've always recruited speed backs because it's easier to out run guys than run them over but I wanna start goin after power guys
From my experiences it depends on the back and the scheme! I've had some that were absolute beast! I've also had some that were absolute bust! Some formations aren't good for power backs because the give is just too slow. Add that with a power back that doesn't have great acceleration and it's disastrous.

The good part of power back is most always fall forward. So they're really good for the right scheme. I'd just be careful on trying to run stretch or counters with them. If the acceleration is good you can pull it off. Otherwise I'd look to stay between the tackles and grind out yds with them.

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
My offense is really transforming into more of a multiple offense each day. I've tried to stay the course and remain true One back but it's just not working as I intended.

Much of that is my fault... I've gotten into doing less but from more looks! I pretty much stayed in 11 or 21 personnel. Now I'm showing a bit of everything! I'll still go 11 & 21 to pound the run... but in between you're likely to see every grouping known to man.

I think i'm going to run with this for a while.... I want to see where it takes me!



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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Placed a TE in my slot receiver spot... I really like the versatility it gives me! I was use to placing my fastest wr in the slot or the one with highest acceleration.

By using the position subs in each formation... I can move him around and wreck havoc! My #1 wr usually flops with him when I want speed there! I've changed my offensive strategy so speedy receivers aren't as important to my scheme anymore!

It gives me blocking on the edge and a guy I can move around for added blocking with motion. It also allows me in position packages to get two TE's on the field in spread looks. With the scheme I'm running now... It's a perfect match!

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
It's funny.... Played a user in an OD yesterday. My team is pretty good but you could clearly see the difference between the two teams! His team looked like track stars running all over the field... While mine looked like they were stuck in mud!

His defensive lineman were blowing my guys off the LOS. His LB's were faster than my wr's as well. It didn't help that both my QB's are 5 Qba nightmares! One is very athletic... but of course he didn't make it to the 2nd Qtr.

Even with all that the new scheme worked perfectly! I threw 3 picks but they were due to the aforementioned issues. It seemed like I wasn't breaking any nice runs... But at games end my starter had 249 yds on 30 carries. My back up and QB put up some nice rushing numbers too!

Although I'm spreading guys out... I'm controlling the clock with a lot of 12-15 play drives. The big plays are there but I'm sticking to the script.


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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Can't seem to stay with a scheme for long. I've been running a quick passing run heavy scheme lately. As that has developed it's made me take another look at my Erickson scheme.

I find myself returning to this scheme over and over. My biggest problem with the Erickson scheme was.... I didn't run it right! The play action was non existent. This time around... I'm going to lean heavily on the PA pass!

I've never ran bootlegs or roll out passes in this game.... but plan to include some. Any advice on some of the better ones?

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PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
If you're not running PA passes from under center (I, singleback, whatever) ur doing it wrong: the animation in this version is setup so that blitzers automatically get picked up because they attempt to tackle the faking back instead of attacking the QB.

At this point I probably run the ball more from the gun and pass from under center.
 

guardman23

Well-Known Member
If you're not running PA passes from under center (I, singleback, whatever) ur doing it wrong: the animation in this version is setup so that blitzers automatically get picked up because they attempt to tackle the faking back instead of attacking the QB.

At this point I probably run the ball more from the gun and pass from under center.
You should join our new dynasty
 
Can't seem to stay with a scheme for long. I've been running a quick passing run heavy scheme lately. As that has developed it's made me take another look at my Erickson scheme.

I find myself returning to this scheme over and over. My biggest problem with the Erickson scheme was.... I didn't run it right! The play action was non existent. This time around... I'm going to lean heavily on the PA pass!

I've never ran bootlegs or roll out passes in this game.... but plan to include some. Any advice on some of the better ones?

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Go back and watch the film of some of the better one back college offenses (Bama, Stanford, etc.). Folks gave Greg McElroy shit, but he could execute the rollout and play fake game to perfection.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
If you're not running PA passes from under center (I, singleback, whatever) ur doing it wrong: the animation in this version is setup so that blitzers automatically get picked up because they attempt to tackle the faking back instead of attacking the QB.

At this point I probably run the ball more from the gun and pass from under center.
That was my issue with me running this scheme. I tried running it with no play action! It worked a bit... but would eventually bog down.

I've reworked my play book and scraped a lot of the stuff I actually liked. Now it's just 2-3 run plays and 6-8 pass plays. Since I run stretch a lot.... I added play action off this. It's taken my scheme to another level.

I'm in singleback about 90% of the time.. . between Ace big & Ace slot mostly. So my results are exactly what I was looking for. My next step is adding draws to my run game. I added only two so far... (ace big & Ace slot) I'm trying to see if draws actually work?

I had a little success last night early on with them. But I see at least vs cpu twice a game is max.

Anyone have success with running draws from under center? Preferably from Ace formations.

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I've never had any success UC or in the Gun with draws. I stopped calling them.
I ran a couple last night in dyn cpu games. They went for between 3-6 yds early... The first two went for 6 yds each.

After... there were a couple TFL's. Never really worked... even though I passed a lot!

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Created an all Pistol version of my one back offense. It's nice... but the passing is not the same in pistol! Will probably mix the two... But definitely can't do all pistol!

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Don't know if it's me... but Pistol just doesn't seem complete. If it was set up like it's counter parts it would be amazing! I think it works nicely with the one back scheme though.

It has allowed me to practically get away from Shotgun with the exception of 3 formations. It also allows for a power run game... As well as some option. It gives the one back more to attack a defense with.

I've also had some success recently with running the draw. Had some nice 15-20 yd runs. I'm still ironing out my scheme.

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Been really doing a lot of research on the one back offense. Mostly Dennis Erickson's version... but looking at everything.

It's really a lot of fun and a lot if it works in game! The more I research it... I realize how simple a scheme it is. It's an easy scheme to run... But at the same time it's not easy to stop.

If you pay attention to your keys/reads you can tell what the defense is trying to do and exploit it every play! I gotta set my audibles up and work on being patient.

If you have athletic TE's... you can really do some damage. I'm really starting to see all the ways this offense can attack a defense.

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SandS2910

Well-Known Member
Been really doing a lot of research on the one back offense. Mostly Dennis Erickson's version... but looking at everything.

It's really a lot of fun and a lot if it works in game! The more I research it... I realize how simple a scheme it is. It's an easy scheme to run... But at the same time it's not easy to stop.

If you pay attention to your keys/reads you can tell what the defense is trying to do and exploit it every play! I gotta set my audibles up and work on being patient.

If you have athletic TE's... you can really do some damage. I'm really starting to see all the ways this offense can attack a defense.

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Let's go then...

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Let's go then...

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You had a taste of it... What did you think?

The blocking in Ace under center seems to be my toughest issue to overcome. I have way too many WTF sacks from linemen just turning and letting guys run through! Or they morph or warp through blocks for instant sacks.

My play book is up to 30 formations now! I have some with as many as 20 plays and others with as few as 4. I like having a lot of plays available at the LOS.

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guardman23

Well-Known Member
You had a taste of it... What did you think?

The blocking in Ace under center seems to be my toughest issue to overcome. I have way too many WTF sacks from linemen just turning and letting guys run through! Or they morph or warp through blocks for instant sacks.

My play book is up to 30 formations now! I have some with as many as 20 plays and others with as few as 4. I like having a lot of plays available at the LOS.

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Straight drop back passing from under center is hit or miss play action is alright mostly because they tackle the back lol
 
I say you keying the Mike
I meant on flanker drive. The deep post.
The problem I have on madden and ncaa is that unless the alert is a streak or corner I pretty much won't throw it. I'm looking for rules that would tell me that the post is good to throw.

@PSUEagle

What are your rules for hitting the alert type passes like the deep post and others in the passing game?
 
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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Straight drop back passing from under center is hit or miss play action is alright mostly because they tackle the back lol
Str8 back is like a lot of things in this game... Busted! You have to find out what works or what you need to adjust to make It work. The blocking in most Ace under center is lousy at best. Once you understand that... you can make pretty much everything work!

You'll have more time against most users in the pocket than against the cpu. You need to have a quick passing scheme from Ace! The play action works great... But you'd be better served canceling the PA in most cases.



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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I meant on flanker drive. The deep post.
The problem I have on madden and ncaa is that unless the alert is a streak or corner I pretty much won't throw it. I'm looking for rules that would tell me that the post is good to throw.

@PSUEagle

What are your rules for hitting the alert type passes like the deep post and others in the passing game?
From my experience you want to throw it based on what look you're getting. I throw it versus two deep... but I hot route the slot or TE on a streak to occupy the SS. Once the Wr breaks inside you throw it upfield at the goal post. The Wr will dart inside past the FS and separate to make the catch.

Actually... You pretty much throw it the same each time....Against man or zone! Let the Wr take a few steps inside and throw it up top. If you don't wait for the Wr to get a few steps inside b4 you throw... It will be picked every time!

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Craig7835

Well-Known Member
I meant on flanker drive. The deep post.
The problem I have on madden and ncaa is that unless the alert is a streak or corner I pretty much won't throw it. I'm looking for rules that would tell me that the post is good to throw.

@PSUEagle

What are your rules for hitting the alert type passes like the deep post and others in the passing game?
Oh my bad. I know when I run the Flanker Drive play, I always hit that deep post,but when he corner & safety run a double team on the DP route, I hit the tight end running the wheel.
 
Does anyone have info on throwing alerts in general? I know the wco used to have them alot and so does air raid as well but they really don't give much info on when to let it go, other then timing it with the end of your drop which I'm not sure works really well in the videogame world.
 

guardman23

Well-Known Member
Does anyone have info on throwing alerts in general? I know the wco used to have them alot and so does air raid as well but they really don't give much info on when to let it go, other then timing it with the end of your drop which I'm not sure works really well in the videogame world.
If the corner is deep I try to throw an out route idk if that's what you mean
 
If the corner is deep I try to throw an out route idk if that's what you mean
No neccessarily. Generally the "alerts" are deep posts, streaks, and corners. Now streak are pretty easy, to an extent the corner is too. But that post is tricky for me.

Is it based leverage of cb, vs. 2 high, leverage of safties ect.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
No neccessarily. Generally the "alerts" are deep posts, streaks, and corners. Now streak are pretty easy, to an extent the corner is too. But that post is tricky for me.

Is it based leverage of cb, vs. 2 high, leverage of safties ect.
It is based on the CB leverage.... IMO. I glance at the safety to see if he's coming over top. The play breaks in to the post... So the CB always jumps inside in man coverage. That's why I said you need to wait b4 releasing it. Once he's jumped inside you bullet pass up top and he'll run right past the CB. The safety for some reason doesn't get there in time.

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