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Principles of Pro Style Offenses
- Thread starter JSU Zack
- Start date
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
Yeah it is really poorly designed as compared to NCAA.. What is just as bad is the scouting feature in CFM... I really wish there was a new NCAA in the works.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Honestly, I try to keep things simple and have some tricks to make things semi-organized.
I find a book that has the formations I want, typically in this order;
1. Ace
2. I
3. Strong
4. Weak
5. Pistol
6. Gun
With those, I trim down to what I want - typically Ace, Strong, & Gun. Those are my core sets. From there, I remove every formation from bottom to top in each formation set and leave the "Normal" set (e.g. Ace Big, Strong Normal, & Gun Normal, Double Flex, or Split Backs).
I then add my formations in from heaviest to lightest personnel with the exception of short yaradge sets, which are last. An example of this is:
Ace Big, Ace Big Twins, Ace Pair, Ace Pair Twins, Ace Z Slot, Ace Y Trips, Ace Trio, Ace Bunch, Ace Jumbo Z
Strong Normal, Strong Twins, Strong Y Over, Strong Close, Strong Slot, Strong Twin TE
Gun Normal, Gun Trio Falcon, Gun Y Trips, Gun Double Flex, Gun Trey Open, Gun Trips Y Iso, Gun Bunch, Gun Bunch Open, Gun Bunch Open Offset, Gun Split Flex, Gun Ace Offset, Gun Empty Saints, Gun Empty Base Flex, Gun Ace Patriot, Gun Empty Trio, Gun Empty Trey
Play organization is impossible, so I instead use the gameplan feature combined with audibles to call most plays. I pick my favorite play in each set as the gameplan call and copy/paste across situations. I make a few tweaks for special cases (Goalline, 4th & short, 3rd & long). I then set the audibles to complement the plays in the gameplan. For example, I'll set up Y Shallow Cross as the Double Flex play in the gameplan for all downs. I then set inside zone, PA comebacks, Z spot, and Y Cross as the audibles. That gives me a man beater, run, zone beater, and two deep shots to use as a "check with me" at the line. Almost all of my plays have check with me calls, regardless if it's Madden or NCAA.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
This is the part that basically kills it for me: I'm so used to calling plays by formation that I can never do it any other way.
Something like this should be an easy fix considering they already have NCAA's architecture/design team in house, right? Who should be hearing about this on Twitter?
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Rex Dickerson is the creative director. He would be my first guess.
https://twitter.com/rexdeafootball
Craig7835
Well-Known Member
Houston & New England are both pass happy, but Arizona's is pretty good also
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Been trying to upload a video from my phone... but it keeps timing out @ 90%.
Anyway.. I wanted to ask when do you guys lob and when do you bullet pass? I lost a game last night after a int allowed my opponent to tie score and convert a 2pt play for a 22-21 win.
On the play... I needed a 1st down to seal the victory. He loaded the box. I notice his DB was cheating inside over the slot guy. I audible to a streak. My wr has 99 acceleration but only 86 speed.
He beats the slot guy and is open... I lob the pass deep only to watch the pass be under thrown by my QB. His DB makes the easy pick. I don't understand... My QB has 88 thp! The pass was 35-40 yds... I've seen 77 thp qb's make that throw!
I showed it on group me and one guy said I should have bullet passed it. Another said what I felt... My Qb has a weak arm!
Thoughts on when to bullet and when to lob?
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Anyway.. I wanted to ask when do you guys lob and when do you bullet pass? I lost a game last night after a int allowed my opponent to tie score and convert a 2pt play for a 22-21 win.
On the play... I needed a 1st down to seal the victory. He loaded the box. I notice his DB was cheating inside over the slot guy. I audible to a streak. My wr has 99 acceleration but only 86 speed.
He beats the slot guy and is open... I lob the pass deep only to watch the pass be under thrown by my QB. His DB makes the easy pick. I don't understand... My QB has 88 thp! The pass was 35-40 yds... I've seen 77 thp qb's make that throw!
I showed it on group me and one guy said I should have bullet passed it. Another said what I felt... My Qb has a weak arm!
Thoughts on when to bullet and when to lob?
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Is this the "hardcore" OD? If so, leave it. Those ratings should make that an easy pitch and catch unless you used the sticks to pass lead.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Yes it is the so called "Elite" OD!
I did push up on the stick so I guess I did pass lead?
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I'll be home in an hour or so
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I'm at work until 4pm then have a gm against NavyHog.
Maybe later?
My bullet passes all seem to be line drives directly to a trailing defender. I press up on stick to throw high... but it never seems to do so!
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Like @bruin228 said I rarely, if ever, lob. It always seems to result in an underthrown ball that only the defender makes a play on. You would think pressing forward and lobbing would result in a deeper pass that your receiver can run under but that just isn't the case. Sometimes you can lob it and then take control of your receiver and sort of slow down to "interfere" with the DB and then speed up as the ball gets there but that is tough to do and still isn't always successful.
When it comes to deep passes, unless my receiver has cleanly beat the DB by 5-10 yards, I'll throw a bullet pass and aim it just inside so I can take control and sort of wall off the DB to make the catch.
Come to think of it, there are really only two types of passes I ever lob. My swing screen where I want to lead my HB up the field and on the occasional 10 yard dig where I want to float it into the space just behind a LB in an aggressive hook zone.
When it comes to deep passes, unless my receiver has cleanly beat the DB by 5-10 yards, I'll throw a bullet pass and aim it just inside so I can take control and sort of wall off the DB to make the catch.
Come to think of it, there are really only two types of passes I ever lob. My swing screen where I want to lead my HB up the field and on the occasional 10 yard dig where I want to float it into the space just behind a LB in an aggressive hook zone.
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
Use L1/LB button with bullet passing. It will throw a high ball that guys with high Spec Catch can grab...similarly left trigger/L2 throws a low ball that is really effective when throwing between zones.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
On Madden 16 it is
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
My pro spread offense has been doing pretty good. With the exception of a couple of brain farts in play calling... it's worked perfectly.
What I need to do... is start utilizing my playmakers better! I have guys that are elite talent and I'm not putting the ball in their hands like I should. I'm going to start moving guys around and really exploit the problems they give defenses.
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What I need to do... is start utilizing my playmakers better! I have guys that are elite talent and I'm not putting the ball in their hands like I should. I'm going to start moving guys around and really exploit the problems they give defenses.
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Not sure how many formation subs you use, but don't be afraid to put your main players in a different position and utilize them in small packages. Just as an example, I formation subbed my 99 WR Mike Williams to HB in my Slot Offset package to throw the PA Swing pass to him. Same with my big TE Leggett, who I formation subbed to be the solo side WR in 4WR Trio which gives me 3 WR to the trips side and a huge athletic TE to the solo side usually matched up on a short CB.
There are times where you just have to accept the OVR/AWR hit to get a guy in a good spot.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's a pretty good book: one of my favorites in that game and one of the few that isn't a rehash of seemingly all of the other PB's (5-6 SB, a few I, and the rest Gun). NE is also decent IMO.
Like I've said previously, custom PB's in NCAA ruined it for me: I literally can't play with stock playbooks anymore even if they're pretty good (like the two mentioned above). This is something that needs to be addressed (and should be a simple fix for the development crew) but no one on OS gives a shit and I don't have the time/energy to campaign for it
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
The gameplay is on point. Very few issues, which is amazing considering the history of the franchise. I think EA is trying to hard to match Microsoft's tile interface and out elements of it into the playbooks. They need to make something and keep it consistent for 5 or 6 years. I loved the older 3x3 play selection screen. You could get to everything quickly.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I really don't use formation subs at all! What I am starting to use are the different packages each formation has. I've been moving my TB & TE's around.
I've really taken to the one back offense! I'm running it how Erickson ran his at Miami with QB runs added and a bit of option. With the packages my slot wr is my TB/RB like Erickson. I'm going to add some motion to that like he does.
What I've also been doing is lining trips up to the boundary as well. I've been recruiting a lot of athletes that I usually make QB's or WR's.... I'm going to start making more TB's. I do very well recruiting FB's so they will be lined up behind the Qb like Erickson does.
My run game is simple.... IZ/OZ. I basically have only two run options in my under center formations. Pistol and Shotgun is where I have more like read option, QB power/wrap, Slot option etc...
So far so good!
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Yeah if you know how to manipulate the depth chart, the packages within each formation can really do a lot. I love the ones that give you like a TE Solo/TE Receiver package where your #1 TE goes to the single side WR position and your second TE replaces him. If you have a really athletic Gronk-ish #1 TE, you can put him anywhere on the field using packages alone. Then you can end up with your #1 WR in a slot against a linebacker or safety and have mismatches all over the field. Traditional gun is way better for packages than offset gun is, which is why I have to use so many formation subs to get what I want in offset.
Trips to the boundary is under rated, I try and do it a lot with Trio Offset where I have the 3 WR to the boundary and the closed TE to the field and I run a shallow cross concept with the HB running a wheel out of the backfield. I think the base play is TE In or something like that, with the hot route wheel added in. It is borderline impossible for a defense to cover that play from that alignment. Urban Meyer is someone who runs the shit out of trips to the boundary. He runs a bunch of speed option to the field out of that look. When I ran Pistol, I would go Pistol Trips to the boundary and run lead option to the field for like 25 yards a pop, that shit cut through defenses like a hot knife through butter.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I'm doing! I have a Gronk look alike in one of my OD's. He's 6'5" 265 with 98 acceleration and 87 speed. My other TE is 6'6" 275 with 80 spd but he's a devastating blocker!
I run a lot of Twin TE packages with them. I've taken so much to this offense that I went from 17 SG formations down to 5 or 6. My offense is basically UC with 2 pistol sets. I've been recruiting some beastly FB's that will get more touches. But they will also help with pass protection!
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Damn 98 ACC and 87 SPD from a TE is a beast, that pretty much eliminates any hope the defense has of pressing if you play him outside and no LB in the game could cover him inside. My favorite TE combo is a really athletic pass catcher at TE1 and a big blocker at TE2. Between the TE Solo and TE Slot packages, you can get the athletic guy anywhere you want him and get the blocker in the game.
Do you put the athletic guy at the wing/H position in the Twin TE formations? Whenever I've had a TE situation like that, I loved putting the TE1 at the wing (usually via TE Flip/Swap package) and then putting the Twin TE to the field and motioning him out. You get the same sort of TE Solo look, but because you motioned too it often times you might not even get a corner out there covering him but a safety or LB alone. Plus if you don't like the look for passing you can always just run the ball to the Twin TE side and have two great blockers.
Twin TE formations are my favorite formations in football. You can do anything and everything. If only there was an Empty Twin TE formation in game.
---X---------------------T-G-C-G-T-Y---------
----------Y-----Z----------------------H-------
-------------------------------Q----------------
Imagine the possibilities
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
That would be a great formation to have! I don't get as much use from him as I should! I'm really not good at passing so many passes I'm to afraid to even try.Damn 98 ACC and 87 SPD from a TE is a beast, that pretty much eliminates any hope the defense has of pressing if you play him outside and no LB in the game could cover him inside. My favorite TE combo is a really athletic pass catcher at TE1 and a big blocker at TE2. Between the TE Solo and TE Slot packages, you can get the athletic guy anywhere you want him and get the blocker in the game.
Do you put the athletic guy at the wing/H position in the Twin TE formations? Whenever I've had a TE situation like that, I loved putting the TE1 at the wing (usually via TE Flip/Swap package) and then putting the Twin TE to the field and motioning him out. You get the same sort of TE Solo look, but because you motioned too it often times you might not even get a corner out there covering him but a safety or LB alone. Plus if you don't like the look for passing you can always just run the ball to the Twin TE side and have two great blockers.
Twin TE formations are my favorite formations in football. You can do anything and everything. If only there was an Empty Twin TE formation in game.
---X---------------------T-G-C-G-T-Y---------
----------Y-----Z----------------------H-------
-------------------------------Q----------------
Imagine the possibilities
He's open 99% of the time but since my ball placement sucks I look elsewhere. Yeah I do use him in wing position... But lately I've been using the wr package and doing the same thing! Probably should use him more for that!
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Not sure if you have Gun Spread or Ace Spread or any formation like that, but I believe both have a Dual TE Slot package which sounds like it might be up your alley as well. I definitely understand being hesitant to throw, it hasn't really been until this year in Powerhouse that I've really started to open up my offense. I'm just too worried about making a mistake through the air or having QBA 5 go haywire and then ending up behind the chains on 2nd and 3rd down.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Damn 98 ACC and 87 SPD from a TE is a beast, that pretty much eliminates any hope the defense has of pressing if you play him outside and no LB in the game could cover him inside. My favorite TE combo is a really athletic pass catcher at TE1 and a big blocker at TE2. Between the TE Solo and TE Slot packages, you can get the athletic guy anywhere you want him and get the blocker in the game.
Do you put the athletic guy at the wing/H position in the Twin TE formations? Whenever I've had a TE situation like that, I loved putting the TE1 at the wing (usually via TE Flip/Swap package) and then putting the Twin TE to the field and motioning him out. You get the same sort of TE Solo look, but because you motioned too it often times you might not even get a corner out there covering him but a safety or LB alone. Plus if you don't like the look for passing you can always just run the ball to the Twin TE side and have two great blockers.
Twin TE formations are my favorite formations in football. You can do anything and everything. If only there was an Empty Twin TE formation in game.
---X---------------------T-G-C-G-T-Y---------
----------Y-----Z----------------------H-------
-------------------------------Q----------------
Imagine the possibilities
You can sub a 2nd TE in Empty Trey TE.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Hahaha you just described me! I have ace spread!
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I think I tried that one time and used the solo side TE at WR to crack block but it always seemed awkward. What I really want that Empty Twin TE formation for is to run Empty Wing T. Put the tailback as the inside slot and run Jet, Jet Buck, Read, Inverted Veer, Q Counter/Power (with and without jet). Plus a double screen with the jet player one way and then a now or tunnel back towards the receiver side would be devastating.
I think at one point I tried to experiment with Empty Y Flex with a HB in the left slot and then doing my jump audible to Trips Y Flex to run a pseudo-Empty Wing T series but it was clunky and took 3 audibles just to get the 3 core plays (Buck, Lead Read, Wrap).
Craig7835
Well-Known Member
In my Road To Glory Mode,I had 2 TE's like that. I would stay running the TE Slot package & by being creative with the depth chart I would put my 2nd TE in as a fullback to block.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Heh... been putting up crazy stats with this offense. I have SR RB on same team with Gronk like TE. Been moving him around from backfield to slot wr and X wr positions. He had an 18 catch 220 plus game with 301 yds rushing on 20+ carries!
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
What concepts are you running?
I fooled around with a few concept books last night and stalled out on offense. Old school one back IZ/OZ ONLY (no counter, read, etc.). Mostly Air Raid concepts with Dagger added in.
Here are the formations in the new book:
Ace Slot Flex
Ace Y Trips
Ace Trips
Ace Bunch Swap
Ace Big
Ace Big Close
Ace Big Twins
Ace Jumbo
I Tight
Gun Normal Flex
Gun Y Trips HB Wk
Gun Trio HB Wk
Gun Bunch HB Str
Gun Normal Y Slot
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
My book looks a lot like yours actually.... I've been running a lot of Air Raid concepts as well! Mainly shallow and digs. I focus on flats early with outs to open up defense. I then start mixing in drags and digs. I do so from a bunch of different looks.
Once that's going now comes my attack with the run game.. It's just IZ early on. Now I begin going up top with play action. Now I've given them a lot to account for. So now comes my option game with load, read, and wr slot options. After that it's rinse and repeat for the most part.
The play action is deadly from Ace formations!
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LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I can get into more detail later... Currently at work!
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LEGEND
Well-Known Member
It's only sprinkled in... I'm not looking to run that way. I'm just trying to Give the defense a lot to think about! My biggest runs are from My 12 personnel sets ace big, twin te, big flip.
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
If Bug Flip had all the bunch concepts and OZ, it would be deadly. There's just not enough meat there to make it a major part of my offense. Opponents that are familiar with that formation know what's coming:
Texas, Counter, or IZ.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I pass a lot from big flip... so I really don't have opponents geared up looking for the run. When I recreated my Oneback offensive playbook... The main concern was sets I could run and pass from equally! In most my formations there is only IZ & OZ run plays. So it's not hard to figure out... But you need to be ready for anything!
My Qb ran for 104 yds on 4 attempts against NavyHog. That's because I came out in ace big.. but I audible to SG Normal and ran QB power! I had two TE's and my RB escorting me to the house. From that same grouping I can go to Shotgun TE flex and hit inside zone or a pass play.
I can audible and be in Ace slot, SG Normal Y flex or empty spread. From just about every formation... So you can't just load up looking for the run.
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LEGEND
Well-Known Member
What I love most about this offense is the ability to put guys all over just from package subs! Putting the TE as the flanker or to the solo side like @TXHusker05 said is deadly!
You get LB's trying to cover wr's plus you have a big TE with a small CB on him. But it gives you huge blocking on the edge. I sub in two te's on all my 11 personnel formations.... I then motion to create twin TE or to get strength and blocking to the point of attack. With the two TE's I can run to either side and I have their blocking leading me.
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You get LB's trying to cover wr's plus you have a big TE with a small CB on him. But it gives you huge blocking on the edge. I sub in two te's on all my 11 personnel formations.... I then motion to create twin TE or to get strength and blocking to the point of attack. With the two TE's I can run to either side and I have their blocking leading me.
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I think one of the big revelations I had in my HUNH offense was realizing that by putting TEs in unique places, I could attack the defense in so many different ways without needing a ton of new formations to do it. All I did was formation sub Leggett my athletic TE to the single side WR in Y Trips Offset and I could then go HUNH with a TE at receiver through all my 11 personnel formations. That let me play Williams in the slot and run stuff like Stick/Stick Nod and sprint smash with my 99 OVR WR inside and then a big TE outside to isolate to run slants vs press.
I also took Flanker Close Wk and put two WRs to the "wide" side and two TEs to the compressed side. I like it because I could run trap towards the TE and get good blocks and then run stuff like stick or wheel/post or Bench with those TEs. Then again, go no huddle and I can get to all my 10 personnel formations with 2 TE outside.
There is nothing I love more than a nice athletic TE in this game. Well, except having one nice athletic TE and one big facesmashing blocking TE. The amount of things you can do with a thunder/lightning TE combo in this game is just staggering. Doesn't matter if you're under center, two back, pistol, gun, option, air raid, pro style. TEs are universal currency in this game. It's unfortunate they become so hard to recruit as seasons go on in ODs.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I think it has a lot to do with what your base playbook is.... If your base is not a pro style or One back base it seems to affect you recruiting TE's. Same with FB's I've noticed. A Pistol base seems to allow you to recruit basically everything too!
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And another big part of it is the statistics that position group put up in previous years. Higher stats and/or awards = more interest from those positions the following year. The problem there being, if you don't have a tight end, you can't use a tight end to get other tight ends interested. Or, if you only use TEs to block but aren't registering a ton of pancakes, the game doesn't really recognize the role the TE played in your offense even though he may have been vital.
One of the things I really started looking for when picking a team in an OD was TE depth. You can work around depth issues at any other position because things HB/WR/DL/DB/ATH are plentiful but TEs are just damn hard to come by. TE is one of the two position groups that I will go out of my way to recruit upper 60s OVR type players (the other being OL) because even a ~68 OVR TE with decent athleticism or blocking skills will eventually develop into a serviceable starting player in just a few off-season training cycles. If you get in the habit of doing that, eventually you'll have a decent pipeline and a ton of depth. Maybe not one standout TE, but you can pair a receiving TE with a blocking TE and using packages make one really good TE.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Some of my best TE's where 69 ovr! I recruited two 6'8" beast... One was extremely athletic and the other was athletic enough! I eventually moved the 1st to WR in pos changes.
That was a mistake! LoL
He took a big hit and was never quite the same. He did put up numbers though!
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