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2015 NFL Offseason/Draft Thread

Southpaw

Southpaw

Fuckface
Utopia Moderator
Russell Wilson ain't a spread qb though. He ran pro style offenses in college. He runs a spread now but he at least learned how to do more in college than look at a poster board and kick his leg. That ain't playing quarterback.
 
Lloyd Carr

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
I don't think Kaepernick is the worst quarterback in the league. I just don't think he's that good.

I wouldn't actively try and pursue Kaepernick if I was a team that needed a quarterback. But I also don't think there's anyone out there who would be worth pursuing to replace Kaepernick if I were the 49ers. Truly good/great quarterbacks, who can put the team on their shoulders and throw the ball to a victory, are hard to find.

I tend to group Kaepernick, Cam, RG3, and Wilson together. Out of those four, Wilson is the best. He seems to have the best decision making, and can hit a lot of throws. RG3 is just bad, and Kaep and Cam are a wash in the "about average, but I don't want them on my team" category. Not the worst guys, but certainly not great either.
 
PSUEagle

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
Travis7401 said:
I hate Matt Ryan doe. You think it is an accident he's losing games the last few seasons despite gaudy throwing numbers? He's got a combined 31 Ints in those seasons and it is a huge part of why Atlanta loses games. If you credit his upside in his ability to win games for Atlanta (which I don't dispute) you must also note the multiple INT games where he kills them.

Also lol @ using Alex Smith as a negative example when he's had almost as good of a career as Matt Ryan, especially once he started playing safer and throwing 5-6 INTs per season instead of trying to force the PRO STYLE QB thing. Look at his record since 2011 when he adapted his game to not force the ball (38-16-1). I don't give a fuck if it isn't sexy, that's the type of QB play that wins games. He's obviously not giving you the huge upside as Ryan, but he's not killing you either. He's a better pro than any of these mong QBs that threw 15 ints per season in college, and that's my point.

I'm not saying that TD:Int Ratio is everything, but I'm saying that when the elite QB candidates have already been narrowed down to the top 3 or 4, you can take anyone who couldn't manage a 3:1 ratio in college and throw them out. They either aren't making good enough decisions or they aren't accurate enough. Show me a successful NFL QB in the last decade who didn't have a +3:1 TD:Int ratio in college. I honestly can't think of any. (Luck had 10 Ints his last year in college, which I think is too high, but at least he offset it with 37 TDs). Plus, I don't want a QB who tries to throw a 20 yard dig route with a foot of separation when he could just take off for a 5 yard gain. I almost destroyed my TV last season because Robo-Manning tried to do that instead of walking for a first down.

To me, Winston is one of the worst first round QB prospects in years. For whatever his upside might be, he also has every. single. red. flag. I think Johnny Footbaw was less of a mong.
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Matt Ryan's had to throw the ball a lot on a team who's talent level has gradually eroded over the last couple years (through no fault of his own). Still, his first five years he posted a winning record every time while going to the playoffs four of those years. After his first couple years in the league his running game collapsed, while the defense gradually got worse (biggest reason the Falcons haven't been a good football team last two years). Plus his OL has been ass for awhile, too.

I'm not going to get into a debate about him vs Alex Smith. Suffice it to say I guarantee you that all 32 GM's in the league would take Ryan over him every single day and twice on Sunday. Including Andy Reid/John Dorsey.

When I watch QB prospects, I try to look at several different areas that I feel translate. Accuracy is my number one, and Jameis is flat out special in that category. I value it so highly because having QB's who won't make throws to tightly covered guys (Chip Kelly refers to this as "NFL Open," FWIW) limits how effective your offense can be. Being able to make those 7-8 stick throws in a game that most guys can't/won't is why Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Luck led offenses are consistently among the best in football, and the flip side is the game manager types will never lead great units on that side of the ball.
Either way, I'm glad you are on Team Winston here because that pretty much assures me being right about him :trollface:
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Fuck you, you stupid fucking administrative faggit
 
PSUEagle

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
We can debate how good plenty of QB's are. The reality is that a lot of what most guys do is based on what teams and situations they end up in.

For example, Russell Wilson landed on a team that's had the best defense and running game in football every year he's started. I don't think he's ever had a game where he's had to throw the ball more than 40 times in a game. Put him on a team like the Eagles in 2012 where he has a lot more pressure to score/convert 3rd down and I'll bet he looks significantly worse.

Kaepernick is a guy who needs to play for Chip Kelly. I was a big fan of his at Nevada and still think he has a lot of ability, but he's the perfect QB for a spread system that asks the quarterback to make quick decisions and run the ball. He also has the size to be able to stand up to the pounding he would take, IMO.
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
PSUEagle said:
Matt Ryan's had to throw the ball a lot on a team who's talent level has gradually eroded over the last couple years (through no fault of his own). Still, his first five years he posted a winning record every time while going to the playoffs four of those years. After his first couple years in the league his running game collapsed, while the defense gradually got worse (biggest reason the Falcons haven't been a good football team last two years). Plus his OL has been ass for awhile, too.

I'm not going to get into a debate about him vs Alex Smith. Suffice it to say I guarantee you that all 32 GM's in the league would take Ryan over him every single day and twice on Sunday. Including Andy Reid/John Dorsey.

When I watch QB prospects, I try to look at several different areas that I feel translate. Accuracy is my number one, and Jameis is flat out special in that category. I value it so highly because having QB's who won't make throws to tightly covered guys (Chip Kelly refers to this as "NFL Open," FWIW) limits how effective your offense can be. Being able to make those 7-8 stick throws in a game that most guys can't/won't is why Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers/Luck led offenses are consistently among the best in football, and the flip side is the game manager types will never lead great units on that side of the ball.


Fuck you, you stupid fucking administrative faggit
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I agree with you that all 32 teams would pick Matt Ryan over Alex Smith. Most of them would probably take Jay Cutler over Alex Smith too. I think that's because humans fundamentally tend to place too much value on the elite performances, while placing too little value on the terrible performances. You see that upside and hope you can eliminate the downside. I'm not really knocking Ryan here, because I'll admit that I'd take him over Smith as well (because I like watching WRs catch TDs at least once a season) @bruin , I'm just saying that when it comes to actually winning games, Having a QB who doesn't hurt the team is probably equally important as having a QB who can "win" the game for you. I think Smith's winning % in his low INT years is a testament to that.
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
I love ARM TALENT especially when the QB has like one throwing speed. Kaep seems like that to me at times watching him. 5 yard dump off to wide open receiver? Hope that motherfucker taped his fingers together or he might end up losing one!

I grew up watching Horseface throw 900mph fastballs to RBs 3 yards away on check down routes. Sammy Winder must have had the best hands in NFL history because he was the only RB I ever saw who would occasionally catch those mong throws :laughing: Screen pass to Bobby Humphrey? TIME TO LOAD UP THE VORTEX MEGA FLIGHT

 
mongoose

mongoose

Well-Known Member
it had to be done

hahaelway_zpsj9omcis6.gif
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
Can we have a .gif as an avatar? Give me a still pic of horseface and I'll oblige. I'll be watching his ARM STRENGTH protege (@Brick Osweiller) soon enough. That will match my expression.
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
You can't even read "vortex" really. Looks like a cloud and a corndog or something. The avatar is inexplicable, ha ha.

I love it.
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
DeadMan said:
:laughing: Travis really is a monkey in front of a computer screen. I am impressed with how poorly that worked, monkey :laughing:
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I told you'll it wouldn't work, lol. Just happens that the first frame of the .gif is blank like that I guess
 
ZackMills

ZackMills

Have mercy
Travis7401 said:
You can't even read "vortex" really. Looks like a cloud and a corndog or something. The avatar is inexplicable, ha ha.

I love it.
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If you click on it, it is large enough read. So now everyone will get their nose against the screen to try and read it, click, then say, "Vortex?"
 
Wuf

Wuf

Desensitized and Willing
Can't wait to hear the sobs from my neighbor with the "NO. 18, THERE IS NO PLAN B" bumper sticker
 
Southpaw

Southpaw

Fuckface
Utopia Moderator
Paul Dawson is going to be a steal for some team who needs a LB. His stock dropped because he ran a 4.93. I put zero value in 40 times for almost every position, but especially for LB. #measurables #salads
 
Southpaw

Southpaw

Fuckface
Utopia Moderator
Yep. I was high on Burfict before that draft too. I understand he had off the field issues that caused his stock to drop some as well, but just watch these guys play. They move laterally and sideline to sideline with instincts, avoiding blocks and taking proper angles and make shit loads of tackles and plays.
 
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