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2015 NFL Offseason/Draft Thread

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
I don't worry about the INT's that much once I've really studied Winston: Matt Ryan threw a similar number his final year in college and I still loved him as a prospect.

Honestly, I was actually more impressed with Winston than Mariota when the two faced off against each other in the Rose Bowl, despite FSU being blown out. If you go purely by film, Winston is a no brainer over Mariota. Really, on film he's the second best QB prospect I've seen in the last dozen years I've been watching college football. He makes tons of anticipatory throws, keeps his eyes downfield if his first look isn't there (as opposed to immediately ducking his head like most crappy QB's), has special accuracy, and showed the ability to handle multiple play packages and make changes at the LOS. And he's shown repeatedly that the moment is never too big for him: I love all of the late drives he led in his career. In fact, that quality is very similar to Tom Brady when the latter was at Michigan: that dude authored several impressive comebacks.

His two biggest weaknesses are he doesn't have a cannon for an arm and he's a little too cocky in some of the throws he thinks he can make. The first one isn't a huge deal since he makes up for it with excellent anticipation, while the second one he can get better with as he plays more and matures.

Mariota has excellent athletic ability, seems like a smart/coachable kid, and is very careful with the football. It's the last trait that actually concerns me in projecting him to the NFL: it's great that you don't want to put your team in harms way, but you can't be a great QB if you're unwilling to take any risks and throw to receivers who aren't open by four feet plus. In fact, there's a name for guys who play like that: Alex Smith.

That's not to say he's not a good prospect because I think he is, but based on what I've seen we don't know if he can hit guys in stride on a 20 yard dig with a foot of separation. We don't know if he can handle multiple play packages at the LOS. We don't know if he can redirect protections. And while he shows flashes as a pure dropback passer, when you compare him to Winston the latter is far more polished/consistent.

With Marcus it's more of a projection than Jameis, IMO. To me Mariota's best case actually reminds me of Russell Wilson, to me. He'll protect the ball, be a great teammate, and be average in the pocket while making up for it by running around like an asshole and giving you several big plays a game that way.
 

Lightningwar

Administrator
IMO the 40 yard dash argument in favor of Mariotta and against Winston is kind of amusing. What NFL team is looking for another running QB anyways after the recent disasters of Griffin, Vick, and Kaepernick? I also find it really funny Southpaws hate of everything Winston.

On the interceptions. Working with 2 true freshman at WR and a true freshman at RB in this system will have something to do with that rate. Quite a number of those were due to WRs stopping routes when Winston was anticipating them to keep running it. That didn't happen as much in 2013 due to have vets in there. And two of them being drafted(freeman, Benjamin) and another signing with an NFL team(Shaw).
 

Southpaw

Fuckface
Utopia Moderator
At least I'm consistent. No reason to root for someone I find detestable just because he might end up on a team I root for. I find it funny that anyone could root for him. Does anyone that doesn't root for FSU even pretend to? I haven't ever talked to one.
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
So Byron Jones broad jumped 12 ft 3 inches.. they think it might of broken the all time WORLD RECORD
 

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
I don't worry about the INT's that much once I've really studied Winston: Matt Ryan threw a similar number his final year in college and I still loved him as a prospect.

Honestly, I was actually more impressed with Winston than Mariota when the two faced off against each other in the Rose Bowl, despite FSU being blown out. If you go purely by film, Winston is a no brainer over Mariota. Really, on film he's the second best QB prospect I've seen in the last dozen years I've been watching college football. He makes tons of anticipatory throws, keeps his eyes downfield if his first look isn't there (as opposed to immediately ducking his head like most crappy QB's), has special accuracy, and showed the ability to handle multiple play packages and make changes at the LOS. And he's shown repeatedly that the moment is never too big for him: I love all of the late drives he led in his career. In fact, that quality is very similar to Tom Brady when the latter was at Michigan: that dude authored several impressive comebacks.

His two biggest weaknesses are he doesn't have a cannon for an arm and he's a little too cocky in some of the throws he thinks he can make. The first one isn't a huge deal since he makes up for it with excellent anticipation, while the second one he can get better with as he plays more and matures.

Mariota has excellent athletic ability, seems like a smart/coachable kid, and is very careful with the football. It's the last trait that actually concerns me in projecting him to the NFL: it's great that you don't want to put your team in harms way, but you can't be a great QB if you're unwilling to take any risks and throw to receivers who aren't open by four feet plus. In fact, there's a name for guys who play like that: Alex Smith.

That's not to say he's not a good prospect because I think he is, but based on what I've seen we don't know if he can hit guys in stride on a 20 yard dig with a foot of separation. We don't know if he can handle multiple play packages at the LOS. We don't know if he can redirect protections. And while he shows flashes as a pure dropback passer, when you compare him to Winston the latter is far more polished/consistent.

With Marcus it's more of a projection than Jameis, IMO. To me Mariota's best case actually reminds me of Russell Wilson, to me. He'll protect the ball, be a great teammate, and be average in the pocket while making up for it by running around like an asshole and giving you several big plays a game that way.

I hate Matt Ryan doe. You think it is an accident he's losing games the last few seasons despite gaudy throwing numbers? He's got a combined 31 Ints in those seasons and it is a huge part of why Atlanta loses games. If you credit his upside in his ability to win games for Atlanta (which I don't dispute) you must also note the multiple INT games where he kills them.

Also lol @ using Alex Smith as a negative example when he's had almost as good of a career as Matt Ryan, especially once he started playing safer and throwing 5-6 INTs per season instead of trying to force the PRO STYLE QB thing. Look at his record since 2011 when he adapted his game to not force the ball (38-16-1). I don't give a fuck if it isn't sexy, that's the type of QB play that wins games. He's obviously not giving you the huge upside as Ryan, but he's not killing you either. He's a better pro than any of these mong QBs that threw 15 ints per season in college, and that's my point.

I'm not saying that TD:Int Ratio is everything, but I'm saying that when the elite QB candidates have already been narrowed down to the top 3 or 4, you can take anyone who couldn't manage a 3:1 ratio in college and throw them out. They either aren't making good enough decisions or they aren't accurate enough. Show me a successful NFL QB in the last decade who didn't have a +3:1 TD:Int ratio in college. I honestly can't think of any. (Luck had 10 Ints his last year in college, which I think is too high, but at least he offset it with 37 TDs). Plus, I don't want a QB who tries to throw a 20 yard dig route with a foot of separation when he could just take off for a 5 yard gain. I almost destroyed my TV last season because Robo-Manning tried to do that instead of walking for a first down.

To me, Winston is one of the worst first round QB prospects in years. For whatever his upside might be, he also has every. single. red. flag. I think Johnny Footbaw was less of a mong.

Either way, I'm glad you are on Team Winston here because that pretty much assures me being right about him :trollface:
 
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Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
Can't wait to see Winston on grudens qb camp.

I wonder what he is going to fake scribble on dat pad like newton did
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
IMO the 40 yard dash argument in favor of Mariotta and against Winston is kind of amusing. What NFL team is looking for another running QB anyways after the recent disasters of Griffin, Vick, and Kaepernick? I also find it really funny Southpaws hate of everything Winston.
i don't see how vick and griffin can be considered disasters when they were playing in mong offenses that don't know how to use their skill set. even so, griffin had a great rookie year and has dealt with injuries and his shitty personality since. vick had his moments along the way.

cam newton, despite playing in a mong offense, has fared fairly well.

kaepernick? lol. if he was joey garroaaplpopl he would have one of the biggest contracts in the league right now.

in the past 3 years

kapernick made it to a super bowl and a conference shampship
wilson won a super bowl and was a yard from another

both guys average 6 YPC and gain ~500 yards per season on the ground and have amazing TD/INT ratios. they don't turn the ball over and are an extra runner on the field.

yet people are still very critical of both players for some unknown reason.

big disasters there, brah.

mariota will get a shitty lifetime footbaw league corch instead of carroll or pwnbaugh, doe. don't worry.

name one pocket QB outside of andrew luck drafted in the last 5 years that has done shit in the league, that didn't play in a spread offense in college. hint: there are none

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
just answer this.

how many times in the game will a QB like ryan or flacco make a TIGHT THROW COVERAGE 20 YARDS OUT SIDELINES DIG FOOTBAW?
how many times in a game will a QB like wilson, kapernick, mariota save a crucial third down conversion by running around like a trog?

the spread QBs can do A sometimes, and B many times. flacco/ryan QB can do A moar than spread QB, but can NEVER do B.

think of the amount of execution and practice it takes to master A. and how many things have to happen between the timing of the receiver, offensive line blocking, QB reading coverage, passing practice.

B is all natural ability and takes zero practice.

online NCAA trolls had it right all along
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
anyone ripping kaepernick or wilson is a fucking trog, i'm sorry.

not only do they DURRR JUST WIN DURRR, but they are super efficient.

they have a combined career 122/47 ratio. that spans six seasons. matt ryan has throw 80 interceptions the past 6 seasons. HMMMMMMM
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
anyone ripping kaepernick or wilson is a fucking trog, i'm sorry.

not only do they DURRR JUST WIN DURRR, but they are super efficient.

they have a combined career 122/47 ratio. that spans six seasons. matt ryan has throw 80 interceptions the past 6 seasons. HMMMMMMM

Not every quarterback has the benefit of players the Packers defense like Kap and Wilson have the last few years.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
anyone ripping kaepernick or wilson is a fucking trog, i'm sorry.

not only do they DURRR JUST WIN DURRR, but they are super efficient.

they have a combined career 122/47 ratio. that spans six seasons. matt ryan has throw 80 interceptions the past 6 seasons. HMMMMMMM

Yeah but Kaepernick was only 19/10 ratio this year. He sucks now.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Not every quarterback has the benefit of players the Packers defense like Kap and Wilson have the last few years.

This is technically true, out of his career totals, 42 TDs and 6800 yards were on the Packers. And of those 500 yards a year he averages, 427 are also from Green Bay
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
Matt Ryan also has thrown the ball 1000+ more times over the course of those "six" years. A lot more chances for error.
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
Matt Ryan also has thrown the ball 1000+ more times over the course of those "six" years. A lot more chances for error.
Maybe he shouldn't be throwing so much?

Wilson and Kaepernick too busy rushing 600 times at 6 YPC clip.

Wilson ran for more yards last season than Ryan has his entire career.

Wilson has fumbled 9 times. Ryan 3. Kaepernick 15. Lots more risk for Wilson and Kaepernick. Add 24 fumbles (don't know if those are all TOs) and they are still +23 in TOs to Ryan.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Maybe he shouldn't be throwing so much?

Wilson and Kaepernick too busy rushing 600 times at 6 YPC clip. Wilson has fumbled 9 times. Ryan 8. Kaepernick 15.

Be careful brick.. Now that Jed cleared out everybody and then had to hire them back because nobody wanted to corch there, Kaep is going to probably be worse
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
People never consider the value add of having an extra runner on the field outside of INJURIES INJURIES. Not like Rodgers, Brady, and fetus head never get hurt.
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
Be careful brick.. Now that Jed cleared out everybody and then had to hire them back because nobody wanted to corch there, Kaep is going to probably be worse
Oh I have no doubt Kaepernick will be awful now and that will be the mong offense rallying cry. Who is the new OC?
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
Maybe Steven Jackson would be decent in an offense where every carry he gets isn't almost entirely predictable.

Well that's just bad corching by the Falcons. Maybe if they called better plays, Ryan wouldn't throw as many picks?
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
If I had to choose between Ryan/Kaepernick/Wilson to quarterback my team, I'd probably take Ryan. Wilson isn't bad, but I want to see him play for a non-championship contending team. He's been extremely lucky with the teams he's been able to play on since coming to the NFL.

Kaepernick is just bad.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
If I had to choose between Ryan/Kaepernick/Wilson to quarterback my team, I'd probably take Ryan. Wilson isn't bad, but I want to see him play for a non-championship contending team. He's been extremely lucky with the teams he's been able to play on since coming to the NFL.

Kaepernick is just bad.

2qdDUkc.gif
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I know everyone thinks Kaep is awful... but is 60% completion, 3400 yards, and a 19/10 split with 640 rush yards really bad?
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
If I had to choose between Ryan/Kaepernick/Wilson to quarterback my team, I'd probably take Ryan. Wilson isn't bad, but I want to see him play for a non-championship contending team. He's been extremely lucky with the teams he's been able to play on since coming to the NFL.
yeah, what if he went to a team that went 7-9 this year?
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
I'd take Kaepernick over EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Johnny Football, RG3, and probably a couple other guys.

He's definitely not the worst quarterback in the league, but even with a solid team and a great coach he was still a disappointment. Put him on a bad or average team, with a bad or average coach, and I think he'll be a giant turd.
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
yeah, what if he went to a team that went 7-9 this year?

You take away the solid coaching, defense, and running game and I think Wilson turns into what we saw of Johnny Football this year.

Take a look at Wilson's performance in the first half of the Super Bowl. Take away the great supporting cast he's had in his career, and you're going to get 16 games of that.
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
I am dead serious look at the numbers he has put up against GB, pull that out he has been pretty average against the other 31 teams. I would still take him over Matty Ice
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I'd take Kaepernick over EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Johnny Football, RG3, and probably a couple other guys.

He's definitely not the worst quarterback in the league, but even with a solid team and a great coach he was still a disappointment. Put him on a bad or average team, with a bad or average coach, and I think he'll be a giant turd.
Was he tho? This year half the starters were hurt.
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
He had one "bad" year, if you can even call it that.

Eli Manning had a 18/27 ratio last year. Ben Roethlisberger shits all over hisself every other year.

But they both won two Super Bowls. If Wilson has a bad season people will be writing him off despite being a yard away from having the same number of rings. lol horribad spread qb got figured out where ur defense now?

He won't get credit for those Super Bowls like fatty and drunk will doe.
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
Was he tho? This year half the starters were hurt.

He still benefited from having a great coach, a solid running game, some quality receiving targets, and a solid defense.

The defense was top-10 in pts against per game and top-5 in yards against. And their rush game was top-10. 30th in passing.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
He still benefited from having a great coach, a solid running game, some quality receiving targets, and a solid defense.

The defense was top-10 in pts against per game and top-5 in yards against. And their rush game was top-10. 30th in passing.
I can tell you didnt watch much :laughing:
 

Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
He still benefited from having a great coach, a solid running game, some quality receiving targets, and a solid defense.

The defense was top-10 in pts against per game and top-5 in yards against. And their rush game was top-10. 30th in passing.
Pretty sure that's a recipe for winning the SB no?
 

Lloyd Carr

Well-Known Member
I can tell you didnt watch much :laughing:

I saw maybe two to three games this season. I'm not an expert on the 49ers or Kaepernick.

But based on the games I've seen and the stats to accompany it, Kaepernick isn't a great quarterback. Not the worst guy in the NFL, but I wouldn't ever go out of my way to acquire him.
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
i'm not even coming back to see if my psueagle troll worked. nfl mong culture too firmly entrenched in even our most open-minded utopians.

rmdSxh.jpg
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I saw maybe two to three games this season. I'm not an expert on the 49ers or Kaepernick.

But based on the games I've seen and the stats to accompany it, Kaepernick isn't a great quarterback. Not the worst guy in the NFL, but I wouldn't ever go out of my way to acquire him.

I'm not going to try to make Kaep above average at reading defenses or throwing the ball because he isn't. That's not the point though. He didn't have a great corch to lead him this year, the play calling of Roman was actually one of the excuses Jed used to get the whole staff out. He had a great QB corch to work on his game but not a great playcaller putting him in a position to succeed.

So even with that he had a really solid year. You say he sucks, he doesn't. He's actually really good at game managing already* and has the chance to get really good at it.

*Asterisk because all year he made bad plays in huge situations, so regardless if you believe in clutch genes or whatever he hasn't been that good in tight situations. That can come with time though.

Either way there are a lot worse than him, a lot. that's just as a passer, he can run too which puts him above some of the better passers IMO.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Well they did go to the NFC Championship last year, and the Super Bowl the year before.

Without very many injuries, last year they got REKT so 7-9 was actually pretty crazy. Think about it, every single starting linebacker was out most of the year. Two starting CBs missed 2-3 games each, lineman got hurt (O and D).

It was a shit show
 
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