2014/15 NBA Thread pelican and okc bitches

[NML]

I'll use a mak argument against him:

If the question on whether or not to match the offer sheet is "are we better with Kanter?" then why didn't they give max deals to all their free agents? They could have! Why didn't they offer Reggie Jackson a max contract instead of limping in at $10m a year or whatever? They'd be better with Jackson than without, right?

Obviously that's a stupid way to look at things because of the salary cap, luxury tax, and flexibility. But, as I said, they decided to throw that all out for Kanter.

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

I believe no one here has posted about the Harden trade yet. What are your thoughts?

 

[GuyIncognito]

Durant and Presti (and I, while we're on the subject) probably understand why they can't bring players to Oklahoma better than you could.

 

[NML]

Who is coming to OKC

Might as well lure max players to Minnesota too

Durant and Westbrook seemed to be well liked in the NBA, and they are on all the Olympic and All Star teams. I'm sure they have friends.

That's why a lot of these stars get together, they want to play with their buddy.

 

[GuyIncognito]

They thought they could replace Jackson, and I think they're right. They don't think they could replace Kanter, and again they're right.

 

[NML]

Durant and Presti (and I, while we're on the subject) probably understand why they can't bring players to Oklahoma better than you could.

Never seen someone get on such a high horse about knowing Oklahoma.

 

[OU11]

I'll use a mak argument against him:

If the question on whether or not to match the offer sheet is "are we better with Kanter?" then why didn't they give max deals to all their free agents? They could have! Why didn't they offer Reggie Jackson a max contract instead of limping in at $10m a year or whatever? They'd be better with Jackson than without, right?

Obviously that's a stupid way to look at things because of the salary cap, luxury tax, and flexibility. But, as I said, they decided to throw that all out for Kanter.

No, I don't think they would.

 

[OU11]

Durant and Westbrook seemed to be well liked in the NBA, and they are on all the Olympic and All Star teams. I'm sure they have friends.

That's why a lot of these stars get together, they want to play with their buddy.

I truly doubt it. I may be wrong. lebrin got Love to stay in Cleveland somehow so it is possible I guess. I wouldn't want to bank on that though. To evaluate those two options you have to do a risk analysis and betting Durant and RUSS can bring in another guy next year is pretty high on risk.

 

[Bucksin04]

Ty Lawson picked up his second DUI in a year last night. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....-dui-2/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[GuyIncognito]

Never seen someone get on such a high horse about knowing Oklahoma.

Then you just answered your own question about why they don't jettison Kanter and hope an All-Star just falls in their lap.

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

well..they did the same thing OKC did with Kanter

I know you not changing the narrative now are you?

Plus, word on the street is that between Tyreke and Gordon, they've lost a combined 22lbs this offseason. Take from that what you will.

Also, those unlikely incentives were based on things he wasnt able to do last year and the probability of him doing those are pretty non existent, so, $11M p/yr

Gordon always looked kinda fat.

Not Theon, Tyreke didnt need to lose weight doe

 

[NML]

Ha, apparently everyone that leaves OKC is garbage then.

Jackson is better than everyone on that team other than Durant, RUSS, and Ibaka. Maybe Morrow.

 

[OU11]

well..they did the same thing OKC did with Kanter

I know you not changing the narrative now are you?

Plus, word on the street is that between Tyreke and Gordon, they've lost a combined 22lbs this offseason. Take from that what you will.

Also, those unlikely incentives were based on things he wasnt able to do last year and the probability of him doing those are pretty non existent, so, $11M p/yr

With Gordon? Was he hurt before that contract? I can't remember that far back but I remember him getting hurt and them resigning him to that deal. A 15M deal back then would be like a 23M deal now probably. Not changing the narrative, just understanding inflation and cap levels outchea.

 

[NML]

Then you just answered your own question about why they don't jettison Kanter and hope an All-Star just falls in their lap.

If it's that bad, then Durant is gone either way.

 

[Bmack]

Ty Lawson picked up his second DUI in a year last night. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....-dui-2/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The rich fuckers really like driving.

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

Kanter is a fuckin midcard jabroni

 

[GuyIncognito]

If it's that bad, then Durant is gone either way.

Maybe so, but they'd be stupid not to make their best case for him.

 

[OU11]

Ha, apparently everyone that leaves OKC is garbage then.

Jackson is better than everyone on that team other than Durant, RUSS, and Ibaka. Maybe Morrow.

Please kill yoself. He isn't garbage at all. He's a good player and I think individually you are right. He wanted to be the man though, and he dominated the ball. We don't need a poor man's RUSS leading the chairs.

This is also why I'm so-so on Payne, I really would rather have Augustine running the show when RUSS is out than Jackson or Payne. A level headed PG who manages the game is a great thing for KD.

 

[OU11]

I think I'm getting trapped up in NML's trolling of mak so I'm gonna bow out

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

Wasnt Augustin on the Longhorns with KD anyway? Chemistry brah, do you even play Ultimate Team?

Augustin went to the same Catholic HS in NOLA as my brother, so Ive followed his whole career. I thought he would be an allstar, after watching him dominate HS and NCAA

 

[NML]

The other thing is that if this free agency taught us anything it's that small market teams can sign big names. Aldridge almost went to the Suns. Monroe chose less money to go to Milwaukee. DeMarre Carroll went to the Raptors. Monta Ellis went to Indiana.

Who's the biggest free agent the big markets got? Robin Lopez in NY? Lakers couldn't get anyone and brought in Hibbert! Celtics are still waiting for Love to return their phone call (who, by the way, went to Cleveland and still stayed). Mavs missed on everyone (other than a broken Wes Matthews). Miami got no one.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I think I'm getting trapped up in NML's trolling of mak so I'm gonna bow out

I'll keep at it until NML successfully convinces me I'm supposed to be pissed at the Thunder instead of happy about them.

 

[NML]

I think I'm getting trapped up in NML's trolling of mak so I'm gonna bow out

I'm truly not trolling. I'm making two points:

1 - you can't frame the question the way Mak did. For someone who preaches that so much in the srs forum, he was way off here.

2 - I summed up this point pretty well here: That's what's so amazing about this thing - OKC ownership, and by extension their fans, have preached looking at the bigger picture and long term moves and cap flexibility. Well all of that went out the window with this one move on a player who just isn't that great.

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

The other thing is that if this free agency taught us anything it's that small market teams can sign big names. Aldridge almost went to the Suns. Monroe chose less money to go to Milwaukee. DeMarre Carroll went to the Raptors. Monta Ellis went to Indiana.

Who's the biggest free agent the big markets got? Robin Lopez in NY? Lakers couldn't get anyone and brought in Hibbert! Celtics are still waiting for Love to return their phone call (who, by the way, went to Cleveland and still stayed). Mavs missed on everyone (other than a broken Wes Matthews). Miami got no one.

Its a glorious time to be a small market fan, all those rigged lotteries have paid off. You are even omitting the small market resignings like Anthony Davis, and still awesome to read. Fuck NY and LA

 

[NML]

I'll keep at it until NML successfully convinces me I'm supposed to be pissed at the Thunder instead of happy about them.

I never said I wanted you to be pissed. In fact, I told you to be happy and enjoy ur second round exit and 55 wins, which you yourself have said you enjoy. Fantastic!

You have all the power to stop responding to my comments. I, personally, just think you are a homer and since you are thinking with emotion so I'm pointing out ur mistakes.

 

[Reel]

With Gordon? Was he hurt before that contract? I can't remember that far back but I remember him getting hurt and them resigning him to that deal. A 15M deal back then would be like a 23M deal now probably. Not changing the narrative, just understanding inflation and cap levels outchea.

Phoenix offered the deal, the Pels matched it.

Yes he was hurt among other things. I think he never really wanted to be in Nola in the first place, but last year, after the surgery on his shoulder, he played pretty much the rest of the season and was shooting at a very nice clip on catch and shoot 3's.

That is his role now but it shouldn't be for $15M. When he said his heart was in Phoenix, so was Gentry. If anybody is going to maximize his ability, I'm hoping it's Gentry.

 

[GuyIncognito]

If you think the Thunder would have a chance to win more games and go deeper in the playoffs without Kanter this year, I can't help you man.

 

[NML]

Its a glorious time to be a small market fan, all those rigged lotteries have paid off. You are even omitting the small market resignings like Anthony Davis, and still awesome to read. Fuck NY and LA

True - a bunch of players decided to stay at home in small markets. Lebron, Davis, Love, Gasol, Brandon Knight, Khris Middleton, Tobias Harris, etc...

 

[NML]

If you think the Thunder would have a chance to win more games and go deeper in the playoffs without Kanter this year, I can't help you man.

Keep moving those goal posts man.

Why are you only thinking about this year? Isn't that EXACTLY what OKC doesn't do?

 

[OU11]

I'm truly not trolling. I'm making two points:

1 - you can't frame the question the way Mak did. For someone who preaches that so much in the srs forum, he was way off here.

2 - I summed up this point pretty well here: That's what's so amazing about this thing - OKC ownership, and by extension their fans, have preached looking at the bigger picture and long term moves and cap flexibility. Well all of that went out the window with this one move on a player who just isn't that great.

Things change when your star is a year away from leaving. I really think the only way Durant stays is if they make a deep run. Kanter helps with that. I think this team is good enough to win as well. They may not, but they are good enough to contend. They threw the flexibility out to make the run that will keep Durant. That's all it comes down to. If they keep putting it off and putting it off then what does that show Durant? They already screwed him over with the Harden trade.

It just seems like you are so biased against them you can't see this clearly. I think it's because you're trying to beat mak in a debate or something, but if you look at this objectively I don't see how you can say it is a bad move. No, Kanter isn't worth it. No, he isn't going to win games by hisself. Yes, he is being paid like a star this year. Yes he will be paid like a role player in years 3/4 (albeit that's heavy speculation, but a good chance it's true).

I think it is hard for me to talk about the thudner because most outside fans hate thudner fans so much so my points get read in a different way than intended. I'd say the same about any team in this situation though, it's a shit contract but they were in a position they couldn't refuse. Kanter had to get his, and he did.

Here is your real litmus test, leach. If the Thudner trade Augustine to save money, then you'll know what's what. Because having him run the team while RUSS is out is as big of an upgrade as having a big who can score. If they let him go, then you can preach on and be right.

 

[OU11]

Keep moving those goal posts man.

Why are you only thinking about this year? Isn't that EXACTLY what OKC doesn't do?

Durant. They were thinking of the future for Kanter lol. Yay small market.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Keep moving those goal posts man.

Why are you only thinking about this year? Isn't that EXACTLY what OKC doesn't do?

Not when this year has a direct impact on getting the stars to re-sign.

I like that your operating assumption here is that Sam Presti is just some moron who has no idea what he's doing or why.

 

[Southpaw]

 

[NML]

It doesn't sound like you are disagreeing with me, @OU11. I agree with your points, for the most part.

I'm coming from someone who thinks the Harden trade was one of the worst in my lifetime, certainly while I've been a basketball fan the past 10 years. And the front office defended themselves but saying things like "cap flexibility" and "no luxury tax" and "don't overpay" - yet they threw that all out to sign Kanter of all people.

That's all, I don't have some huge point to make.

 

[OU11]

We're going to assume Durant is healthy because otherwise none of this matters.

If you are Durant and entering your prime, what would you do if your team who already fucked you over let the only big on your team that could score go? Remember that in this situation the team has no flexibility with or without Kanter this next year and the Wizards are doing everything to create the perfect fit for you. Going into your last year the FO made the choice of having nobody than signing a big who can score.

I'd demand a trade.

 

[NML]

Not when this year has a direct impact on getting the stars to re-sign.

I like that your operating assumption here is that Sam Presti is just some moron who has no idea what he's doing or why.

I never said anything like that. I don't think Presti is very good at trades, but his talent evaluation is top notch. I've never commented about him otherwise - other than in the grand scheme of the "front office."

 

[OU11]

It doesn't sound like you are disagreeing with me, @OU11. I agree with your points, for the most part.

I'm coming from someone who thinks the Harden trade was one of the worst in my lifetime, certainly while I've been a basketball fan the past 10 years. And the front office defended themselves but saying things like "cap flexibility" and "no luxury tax" and "don't overpay" - yet they threw that all out to sign Kanter of all people.

That's all, I don't have some huge point to make.

Well the flexibility was so they could hopefully do this at some point. And they've always said they'd go into the tax at the right time, but not for multiple years where you start getting punished by multipliers. So while maybe they thought they would do this for someone better than Kanter, this was the end game this whole time.

 

[NML]

We're going to assume Durant is healthy because otherwise none of this matters.

If you are Durant and entering your prime, what would you do if your team who already fucked you over let the only big on your team that could score go? Remember that in this situation the team has no flexibility with or without Kanter this next year and the Wizards are doing everything to create the perfect fit for you. Going into your last year the FO made the choice of having nobody than signing a big who can score.

I'd demand a trade.

Well if my options are the Wizards and a "perfect situation" or staying in OKC where they have 0 cap flexibility to make a move other than resign me, I'm leaving anyways.

I've said that a couple times, I don't see how limiting yourself for a guy that Durant hasn't even played with is going to help him stick around over going somewhere else.

 

[OU11]

I think Presti has done well in trades to be honest. That's with my disclaimer I've posted about 100x that the trade wasn't his deal. I really think ownership forced his hand and made it known there was no other option. Every team knew Presti had to deal him and that there wasn't a chance Harden would play it out and go to FA. I'm not sure anyone would get good return in that situation, it's an obvious buyer with high leverage situation. If you don't agree with that, then yeah he's been terrible

 

[PrimoReemo]

Somebody get Travis in here to start the jihad again

 

[NML]

Maybe they make a deeper run - maybe - but most players are bigger thinking than that.

Go back to Lebron - he left because he had the perfect storm of options in Miami, resign Wade, bring in Bosh, recruit everyone else. I think the season before Miami got swept by the Celtics in the first round.

 

[OU11]

Well if my options are the Wizards and a "perfect situation" or staying in OKC where they have 0 cap flexibility to make a move other than resign me, I'm leaving anyways.

I've said that a couple times, I don't see how limiting yourself for a guy that Durant hasn't even played with is going to help him stick around over going somewhere else.

Wizards aren't a perfect situation, but they are lucky in their timing. Is Wall locked up? If he is than that helps a lot with flexibility as the cap rises. I mean his hometown, young good roster, the east, WALL... to me, it's a pretty nice deal to me.

And I've said more than a few times, he's in his last year and OKC could either make the team worse or better. They chose better for once in their miserable tenure.

 

[NML]

I think Presti has done well in trades to be honest. That's with my disclaimer I've posted about 100x that the trade wasn't his deal. I really think ownership forced his hand and made it known there was no other option. Every team knew Presti had to deal him and that there wasn't a chance Harden would play it out and go to FA. I'm not sure anyone would get good return in that situation, it's an obvious buyer with high leverage situation. If you don't agree with that, then yeah he's been terrible

Like I said, the Harden trade was awful. I'll even give him a pass for that since you may be right on him being forced to do it. But for me, and as a C's fan this trade has been dissected by me a million times, how he gave up Jeff Green to bring in Perkins is unreal. Then give Perk the big contract (which they knew they would when they made the trade).

Another really short sighted move - Perkins was literally going to whatever conference had Dwight Howard, because that's really all he had going for him: defending Howard really well. Both teams were short sighted, to be honest.

 

[NML]

That move actually, by extension, may have kept them from keeping Harden.

 

[OU11]

Like I said, the Harden trade was awful. I'll even give him a pass for that since you may be right on him being forced to do it. But for me, and as a C's fan this trade has been dissected by me a million times, how he gave up Jeff Green to bring in Perkins is unreal. Then give Perk the big contract (which they knew they would when they made the trade).

Another really short sighted move - Perkins was literally going to whatever conference had Dwight Howard, because that's really all he had going for him: defending Howard really well. Both teams were short sighted, to be honest.

I'd agree but Perk changed the whole team dynamic. I hate the "locker room guy" thing as much as anybody but they really did seem to turn a corner with him in there. His contract was lolworthy but that's not a trade. Jeff was great though, if they just waited a year or two they could have signed perk to a FA deal for less. I'll give you that one too. So he's been average. I really liked the Jackson trade though, he just wasn't going to work here with his wanting to start. I'm not mad at him for wanting to, he should get the chance. Just wasn't going to be over RUSS and I'd rather have a shooter at the 2 than a worse RUSS

 

[OU11]

It's the offseason, it happens every year

 

[Southpaw]

Oh I know, it's just super fucking boring. I'd rather have our yearly best hot sauce or proper cooking temperature of a steak than this.

 

[Southpaw]

Or even better, let's tom bout Street Outlaws and the OKC street racing scene. Any of you 'Homans street race? Is Big Chief really the best street racer in the 405?

 

[kella]

Why does this thread have so much activity 3 weeks after the season ends

 

[Southpaw]