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Warm Butts and Merry-Go-Rounds - Corches Hot Seat/ Coaching Carousel

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
And leave the current staff twisting in the wind until January? Ugh. Harbaugh isn't coming back to the 49ers. Everybody knows that. We can easily reach out and ask him how interested he is in Michigan. Our AD played when Jack Harbaugh was a coach at Michigan. 3 phone calls and you know if Harbaugh is coming.

I don't think it matters. If Harbaugh isn't coming, you move on to Mullen or (ugh) Miles. Hoke cannot get another year here. It would be a disaster worse than this year, because the stadium would be half empty.
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
And leave the current staff twisting in the wind until January? Ugh. Harbaugh isn't coming back to the 49ers. Everybody knows that. We can easily reach out and ask him how interested he is in Michigan. Our AD played when Jack Harbaugh was a coach at Michigan. 3 phone calls and you know if Harbaugh is coming.

I don't think it matters. If Harbaugh isn't coming, you move on to Mullen or (ugh) Miles. Hoke cannot get another year here. It would be a disaster worse than this year, because the stadium would be half empty.

And Sugar Shane Morris would be QB until Hoke realizes Morris is concussed again.
 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
You can't just fire Hoke and wait on Harbaugh. What if he wins the Super Bowl or is offered another big job? Do you really want to wait 2 months for a coach only have to goto plan c?
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
You can't just fire Hoke and wait on Harbaugh. What if he wins the Super Bowl or is offered another big job? Do you really want to wait 2 months for a coach only have to goto plan c?

Considering Plan C is either John Harbaugh or Les Miles.....yes.

both are upgrades from Hoke even taking into consideration the questionable clock management skills of Miles.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
You can't just fire Hoke and wait on Harbaugh. What if he wins the Super Bowl or is offered another big job? Do you really want to wait 2 months for a coach only have to goto plan c?

Normally, I would agree with you, but even Lane Kiffin would probably be an improvement on Hoke. There isn't a case for keeping him. You should be able to gauge Harbaugh's interest quickly and be able to move on if necessary. Sure, Harbaugh could screw you by leaving you twisting in the wind until January and then back out, but I still think that's better than Hoke.

For what it's worth, I don't think Harbaugh comes here. And I think we're losing a step on someone like Mullen by not firing Hoke quickly. We're now competing with both Florida and Nebraska. The longer we wait, the fewer options there will be.
 
I reel e think Michigan is just waiting for the 49ers season to end. It's already been rumored Harbaugh told everyone in the 49ers' organization he's not coming back next season. Michigan would be a great fit for him as well. Harbaugh vs. Meyer in the annual rivalry between Mich-tOSU? Fap.


Harbaugh can finish what Hoke started and completely set Michigan's offense back to 1978.
 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
I hope you take Mullen. I still love the rumor Urbs wouldn't let him talk on recruiting trips so he didn't say something stupid.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Just saw on twitter from a guy who would know that the AD and Hoke will have a meeting tomorrow about Hoke's future. So we should be firing Hoke tomorrow. Or not firing him, I guess.
 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
Normally, I would agree with you, but even Lane Kiffin would probably be an improvement on Hoke. There isn't a case for keeping him. You should be able to gauge Harbaugh's interest quickly and be able to move on if necessary. Sure, Harbaugh could screw you by leaving you twisting in the wind until January and then back out, but I still think that's better than Hoke.

For what it's worth, I don't think Harbaugh comes here. And I think we're losing a step on someone like Mullen by not firing Hoke quickly. We're now competing with both Florida and Nebraska. The longer we wait, the fewer options there will be.
Wait so do you want Harbaugh or do you want someone in that Mullen range? You can't have both. You have to pick one due to the NFL schedule.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
I want Harbaugh, but I don't expect to get him.

What I'm saying is that Michigan could easily put out feelers to see if Harbaugh is interested. If he is, then you wait until the end of the NFL regular season - 49ers aren't making the playoffs - to hire someone (hopefully it will be him). If he's not, you move on to others now.
 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
I want Harbaugh, but I don't expect to get him.

What I'm saying is that Michigan could easily put out feelers to see if Harbaugh is interested. If he is, then you wait until the end of the NFL regular season - 49ers aren't making the playoffs - to hire someone (hopefully it will be him). If he's not, you move on to others now.
Dude..the Niners are up against the Cowboys, Lions, and Cardinals for 2 spots. They getting in.
 

Craig7835

Well-Known Member
Current leaders in clubhouse for Nebraska job:
From my local...... Jim Tressel - Unemployed -120 Scott Frost - Oregon OC +200 Jim McElwain - Colorado State HC +300 Mark Richt - Georgia HC +400 Joe Moglia - Coastal Carolina HC +500 Craig Bohl - Wyoming HC +600 Gary Patterson - TCU HC +700 Pat Narduzzi - Mich State DC +800 Justin Fuente - Memphis HC +900 Jerry Kill - Minnesota HC +1000 Ed Orgeron - Unemployed +1000 Tom Herman - Ohio State OC +1000 Kirby Smart - Alabama DC +1000 Mike Norvell - Arizona State OC +1000 Rhett Lashlee - Auburn OC +1000 Matt Wells - Utah State HC +1000 Bret Bielema - Ark HC +1000 Greg Schiano - Unemployed +1500 Jim Harbaugh - 49ers HC +1500 Bud Foster - Virginia Tech DC +1500 Jake Spavital - Texas A&M OC +1500 Bill Lazor - Miami Dolphins OC +1500 Todd Bowles - Arizona Cardinals DC +1500 Art Briles - Baylor HC +1500 David Cutcliffe - Duke HC +1500 Mack Brown - Unemployed +1500 Will Muschamp - Unemployed +2000 Mike Bobo - Georgia OC +2000 Jeremy Pruitt - Georgia DC +2000 Bob Sutton - Kansas City Chiefs DC +2000 Mel Tucker - Chicago Bears DC +2000 Kyle Whittingham - Utah HC +2000 Turner Gill - Liberty HC +2000 Pete Lembo - Ball State +2500 Jon Gruden - Unemployed +4000 Mike Shanahan - Unemployed +5000 Gus Malzahn - Auburn HC +5000 Justin Wilcox - USC DC +5000 B Callahan - Cowboys OC +10000


Really Mel Tucker?! Have any if you all watched the Bears defense lately?
 

Craig7835

Well-Known Member
What defense?? They haven't played D since Lovie left. I am now apathetic to my Bears, which is the worst place to be.


As much as I didn't care much for Lovie as far as his choices for OC,he defenses were top notch. I think Trestman wanted to keep Marinelli,but that didn't happen
 
Dude..the Niners are up against the Cowboys, Lions, and Cardinals for 2 spots. They getting in.

Well, technically the Cards would be NFC West champs as of right now and Seattle would be in the Wild Card hunt. But I agree that won't be the case in a month.

And I don't think the 49ers are a slam dunk. That team is dysfunctional and the offense is putrid.
 

fonzilla

Well-Known Member
As much as I didn't care much for Lovie as far as his choices for OC,he defenses were top notch. I think Trestman wanted to keep Marinelli,but that didn't happen
Well even Trestman's supposed strength(offense) has sucked ass this year. He is in over his head... Fucking idiot only ran Forte 6 times against the Lions.. so when is it right not to use your best player???
 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
Well, technically the Cards would be NFC West champs as of right now and Seattle would be in the Wild Card hunt. But I agree that won't be the case in a month.

And I don't think the 49ers are a slam dunk. That team is dysfunctional and the offense is putrid.
You don't understand. They just have to get past Drew Stanton and Jim Caldwell.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
You don't understand. They just have to get past Drew Stanton and Jim Caldwell.

And Tony Romo.

The problem is that they have to get to at least 10-6 to have a shot at the playoffs, maybe even 11-5. 10-6 is doable, but they're not going to win out. Hell, I think they go 2-2. That team is a mess right now.
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
Last week SF had about a 37% chance of making the playoffs, that will probably fall about 10% after their Week 13 loss.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
I don't know who should coach at Nebraska, or who would be successful. I don't think anyone does know. Coaching is a coin flip, you do some supposition and just hope for the best. That said, I think Harbaugh is about the closest thing to a sure thing there is. He is not coming to Lincoln, but I wish he would.

I am on board with a Scott Frost move if they want to nab him. I don't know if he is really ready or not, but sometimes you have to roll the dice based on what might be. What if Scott Frost turns out to be great? Then you have a great coach at his alma mater who is more likely to stay long term and keep them great. He might give you the home town discount too. He knows the situation, the culture, the area...He is an up and coming coordinator, why not roll the dice and see what happens. My only complaint would be if he runs a spread offense, which would make me cringe, but then what are the odds of avoiding it in this crappy era of CFB?

If they are not going to take a chance on an up & coming coach, they had better have a top flight coach ready to go. You don't fire an annual 9 win coach for a lateral move.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
Holy crap. Wooly accepting a spread offense. Mind blown.

What are the odds of getting a new coach who DOESN'T run a spread? I am preparing myself for what seems inevitable.:( Besides, I watch more for defense anyway these days, unless one of the teams actually runs between the tackles. I have just about given up on offense in CFB today.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
cfburbanmeyer_zpsdmdsw360.gif
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
We'll always have Nebraska I-Option, @Wooly Nothing was more frightening than watching Tommy Frazier running down the line. Will he pitch it? Will he pass it? Will he keep and take it to the end zone hisself?

 
What are the odds of getting a new coach who DOESN'T run a spread? I am preparing myself for what seems inevitable.:( Besides, I watch more for defense anyway these days, unless one of the teams actually runs between the tackles. I have just about given up on offense in CFB today.

Oh, an offensive neo-Luddite. Neat.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
A Malzahn style spread offense would be magical at Nebraska. It is literally identical to Tom Osborne's old Nebraska offense when you break it down to the core concepts, it just looks different and has the fun spread it out window dressing that high school kids love playing in. As long as we run the fucking ball, I don't care if we do it from the Power I or an Empty formation.

That said, if Jim Tressel comes to Nebraska, I have plenty of other schools I can cheer for.
 
A Malzahn style spread offense would be magical at Nebraska. It is literally identical to Tom Osborne's old Nebraska offense when you break it down to the core concepts, it just looks different and has the fun spread it out window dressing that high school kids love playing in. As long as we run the fucking ball, I don't care if we do it from the Power I or an Empty formation.

That said, if Jim Tressel comes to Nebraska, I have plenty of other schools I can cheer for.

Rhett Lashlee would be thinking out of the box.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
No I disagree, I don't think they are identical, and I don't think they use the same core concepts. How would argue that? You could only argue that if you are talking about core concepts that ALL of offensive football uses. But if you do that, than you are saying everything in offensive football is the same, and there can be no distinctions. That doesn't seem like a useful analysis.

Let's look at the Nebraska offense under Tom Osborne. Osborne's Nebraska was a power run offense first, with some options, not an option first offense. Nebraska really didn't start running the option until the 80s. In the 70s they were a pretty standard pro-form. Nebraska's options changed some over time, but when they ran them, they were double options, never triple options, and he didn't use a spread OL either. Triple options require different set ups, meshes, blocking, and now days formations than double options. Also, Nebraska didn't spread teams out, they tried to get more blockers as the point of attack instead. You can always say that teams are trying to get the ball carrier into space in every system (to a degree), but how they do it certainly differs, and it the two styles can't be run from the same concepts. There is a fundamental difference in using multiple blockers at the point of attack to open up a running whole, and spreading out the defense to open a hole. That is not the same thing. They are difference philosophies. Outmanning at the point of attack actually requires extra blockers at the point of attack, which is the antithesis of spreading teams out. You can argue that you might try and do both (Oregon and Auburn),= by spreading a defense out then using 1 blocker to get an advantage at the point of attack, but the vernacular usually defines "getting more men at the point of attack" to be using a power formation with lots of offensive players "in the box" or "between the tackles". That philosophy usually pulls and traps and brings 2-3 blockers at the point of attack. A spread run philosophy wants maybe one blocker at the point of attack. You can argue that the result either way is just maybe 1 extra blocker at the point of attack, but there is a significant difference between using 2-3 blockers and 1 blocker at the point of attack. Think Wisconsin a few years ago with Christ as OC and Bielma as HC. They had plenty of set up plays, but their bread and butter run for yards was their counter trap, where they had 3 or more blockers running a train off tackle after a counter step. It has two pulling lineman and a FB all going into the gap. That is a mass of football players running in a small area to clear a whole. Contrast that with Oregon running Inside Zone with 3-4 WR from a single back shotgun. I don't see how you can call them the same. Again, if you are calling them the same because they both try and get a whole at the point of attack, get 1 extra blocker maybe, etc, etc...then what is the difference between ANY style of run play. They all try and do that. If you take it to that level, every run play is the same. That doesn't seem like a useful analysis.

The truth is that EVERY offense I can think of only uses a small handful of plays, and they just run them from different alignments and formation, using motions and different shifts to disguise the same plays over and over. However, most teams do not use a lot of different philosophies in those small handful of plays. They usually stick to one style of running, and the differences do matter.


The real magic of Osborne's offenses was Osborne himself, and that is hard to duplicate. He was great at in game adjustments and timing. He had a great feel for what plays to run, and when to run particular play. He had a lot of patience and picked his moments.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
No I disagree, I don't think they are identical, and I don't think they use the same core concepts. How would argue that? You could only argue that if you are talking about core concepts that ALL of offensive football uses. But if you do that, than you are saying everything in offensive football is the same, and there can be no distinctions. That doesn't seem like a useful analysis.

Let's look at the Nebraska offense under Tom Osborne. Osborne's Nebraska was a power run offense first, with some options, not an option first offense. Nebraska really didn't start running the option until the 80s. In the 70s they were a pretty standard pro-form. Nebraska's options changed some over time, but when they ran them, they were double options, never triple options, and he didn't use a spread OL either. Triple options require different set ups, meshes, blocking, and now days formations than double options. Also, Nebraska didn't spread teams out, they tried to get more blockers as the point of attack instead. You can always say that teams are trying to get the ball carrier into space in every system (to a degree), but how they do it certainly differs, and it the two styles can't be run from the same concepts. There is a fundamental difference in using multiple blockers at the point of attack to open up a running whole, and spreading out the defense to open a hole. That is not the same thing. They are difference philosophies. Outmanning at the point of attack actually requires extra blockers at the point of attack, which is the antithesis of spreading teams out. You can argue that you might try and do both (Oregon and Auburn),= by spreading a defense out then using 1 blocker to get an advantage at the point of attack, but the vernacular usually defines "getting more men at the point of attack" to be using a power formation with lots of offensive players "in the box" or "between the tackles". That philosophy usually pulls and traps and brings 2-3 blockers at the point of attack. A spread run philosophy wants maybe one blocker at the point of attack. You can argue that the result either way is just maybe 1 extra blocker at the point of attack, but there is a significant difference between using 2-3 blockers and 1 blocker at the point of attack. Think Wisconsin a few years ago with Christ as OC and Bielma as HC. They had plenty of set up plays, but their bread and butter run for yards was their counter trap, where they had 3 or more blockers running a train off tackle after a counter step. It has two pulling lineman and a FB all going into the gap. That is a mass of football players running in a small area to clear a whole. Contrast that with Oregon running Inside Zone with 3-4 WR from a single back shotgun. I don't see how you can call them the same. Again, if you are calling them the same because they both try and get a whole at the point of attack, get 1 extra blocker maybe, etc, etc...then what is the difference between ANY style of run play. They all try and do that. If you take it to that level, every run play is the same. That doesn't seem like a useful analysis.

The truth is that EVERY offense I can think of only uses a small handful of plays, and they just run them from different alignments and formation, using motions and different shifts to disguise the same plays over and over. However, most teams do not use a lot of different philosophies in those small handful of plays. They usually stick to one style of running, and the differences do matter.


The real magic of Osborne's offenses was Osborne himself, and that is hard to duplicate. He was great at in game adjustments and timing. He had a great feel for what plays to run, and when to run particular play. He had a lot of patience and picked his moments.

I am well aware about what Nebraska's offense was. They do, in fact, run the same concepts. Not only that, they run them the exact same way. Malzahn runs more true Power than Osborne ever did (Osborne preferred zone stretch and Pitch to Power O), but the core concepts are identical and coached in the exact same manner. They look different, but they are identical in both their concepts and philosophies.

Your assessment of Malzahn's offense is wrong. It is a smashmouth offense. It is not spread it out to get holes in the defense to run, they create those holes with misdirection and lead blockers just like Nebraska did. Their misdirection and lead blockers just look different. Instead of running Counter Trap or 41/49 Pitch with a TE and FB and pulling OL out in front, they use backs and receivers to misdirect and use H-Backs (Fullbacks) and receivers to lead block. They have the same numbers at the point of attack as Nebraska did in those days, it just looks different because it is 11 personnel and the Gun with a ton of moving parts.

Tell me, in what way is this:

Twins+Left+Tight+-+GF+Left.jpg

Different from this:
42-48CTPlay.jpg

They aren't different. They are the same play. Blocked the same, coached the same. Who is executing is the only difference.

How is this:
Empty+Heavy+-+Zone+Right.jpg


Different from this:

11-19ArcOption.jpg


They might look different and they may get results in slightly different ways, but I assure you the two offenses are identical in the ways that matter. What you're describing about series football and plays set up with lead blockers and operating in a this and then that manner is exactly what Malzahn does. The things you're describing are what makes Malzahn's offenses great.
 
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