Spread Offense

[PaHsFootballRules]

I think I'm going to expand my under center stuff in both of my spread playbooks. I talked about some under center formations in my Spread I 2.0 write-up because of how Malzahn uses fire alarm quick huddle plays to run a quick crack toss or PA or other plays coming out of the huddle to disguise formation. I'm thinking about doing that some now. I never really did it my first time through because my playbook was so huge, but I have a bunch of room now that I ripped a ton of stuff out. Just put in like a handful of special formations tailored to my personnel and go from there.

It'll mostly be stuff like Ace Bunch and some Strong/Weak stuff. Ace has the good End Around/End Around Slash/PA End Around series, Strong has some good HB Sweep, FB Dive (with fake Sweep action) and PA FB as well. Plus there is GL Twins Over that has some nice stuff and a QB Sneak. Weak Normal has the Y Over Fly Sweep series. There is some good stuff. I think I need to get into at least a little under center just to provide a few different looks. My Spread-I especially suffers because despite having around 25 total formations, they are really only 4 different formations to opponents. 2x1, 2x2, 3x1, 3x2.

I've been going back over a ton of Malzahn materials and film for some inspiration and I really like what the under center stuff can do as a change-up to a typical spread.

Hey I know you aren't a fan of power under center, but I think I figured out how to make it work: treat it old school and run it like an A gap play. Admittedly, I have only tested this in a handful of games but it has been more successful than running counter for me.

 

[TXHusker05]

Hey I know you aren't a fan of power under center, but I think I figured out how to make it work: treat it old school and run it like an A gap play. Admittedly, I have only tested this in a handful of games but it has been more successful than running counter for me.

Wouldn't there still be run-through from the backside A Gap where the pulling guard comes from? I haven't run under center power in a long time so I might not be remembering it right but I feel like the main problem is that the game blocks Power with outside blocking rules and just adds the BSG puller. So instead of everyone blocking down, FB/H-Back kicking out and guard pulling through, everyone reach blocks outside leaving a huge hole where the BSG pulls from.

I would really like to have Power in my under center series, especially at NIU where I have a great FB and HB, I just don't know if it would end up working right. I suppose I could always put it in and give it a try. At the moment I have 9 under center formations, all of them are 4 plays or less. I have a couple Ace Bunch formations to run End Around/End Around Slash/PA End Around, a few strong formations to run HB Toss, FB Dive, PA FB Dive and a Weak formation to run Fly Sweep/Fk Fly Sweep Dive. Then GL Twins Over.

I really like GL Twins Over and/or Strong Twins Over as a series opener/first down formation because I can run PA or Sprintout and hot route the TE lined up at tackle to run up the seam. That can be a big explosion play if a user isn't paying attention or sits in a 2 high safety look.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

I did not have any run through, but this is only versus the cpu. I don't have time to play against human opponents.

 

[KATOblaze]

There's no run through that's how I run it in the pistol in my offense the end man on the backside is left alone and the tackle goes second level

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

There's no run through that's how I run it in the pistol in my offense the end man on the backside is left alone and the tackle goes second level

Its a crime that power doesn't exist in most of the two back sets in pistol.

 

[TXHusker05]

Hmm, I may have to try it. Right now the only Power I have is in Normal Flex Wing or straight QB Power, both of which I treat as a sweep play rather than a tight power play. If I could get a working tight power play, that would certainly be helpful. For the most part, I treat Counter as my tight power play.

At UNC, I'm planning on running the equivalent as a Gun Wing T the rest of the way. I usually use the first 3-4 games of the season to determine what is working best, what isn't working or being used and rework things. For the most part, my offense there has turned into Power (QB and Inverted Veer) and Outside Zone (mostly option and Jet) and PA off Veer, Option and Jet. All traditional gun, plus some under center sweeps/end arounds. Nothing really complicated, I don't have the depth to mess around with much else, especially at WR and TE. I'm entering a stretch of user games so this should be interesting.

At NIU, I have the depth to do pretty much anything I want. We'll see how things shake out after the second game before I really get into trimming things down. I'm starting to really enjoy Jet and Inverted Veer quite a bit. I like being able to attack downhill with my QB.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

Hmm, I may have to try it. Right now the only Power I have is in Normal Flex Wing or straight QB Power, both of which I treat as a sweep play rather than a tight power play. If I could get a working tight power play, that would certainly be helpful. For the most part, I treat Counter as my tight power play.

At UNC, I'm planning on running the equivalent as a Gun Wing T the rest of the way. I usually use the first 3-4 games of the season to determine what is working best, what isn't working or being used and rework things. For the most part, my offense there has turned into Power (QB and Inverted Veer) and Outside Zone (mostly option and Jet) and PA off Veer, Option and Jet. All traditional gun, plus some under center sweeps/end arounds. Nothing really complicated, I don't have the depth to mess around with much else, especially at WR and TE. I'm entering a stretch of user games so this should be interesting.

At NIU, I have the depth to do pretty much anything I want. We'll see how things shake out after the second game before I really get into trimming things down. I'm starting to really enjoy Jet and Inverted Veer quite a bit. I like being able to attack downhill with my QB.

Are you reading inverted veer or using as a series based on what the use has his option set to?

 

[TXHusker05]

Are you reading inverted veer or using as a series based on what the use has his option set to?

I'll usually get into Inverted Veer after a few options/reads to see what the option defense setting is. I still read it so even if there is a surprise I won't run right into a defensive end, but I do try to run it only when I'm getting conservative option D. I won't totally abandon it if I am getting aggressive option D though, if I get aggressive option D, I'll run Inverted Veer out of F Twins Over or Wildcat because that additional speed helps get the ball carrier around the end safely.

I'm trying to limit the amount of reads and options I'm running lately. I want to dictate who is carrying the ball rather than have my opponent dictate it. When I call reads and options, I'm usually doing it knowing what the option D setting is and calling options to exploit that. IV vs Conservative, Read/Triple vs Aggressive.

 

[JSU Zack]

Hmm, I may have to try it. Right now the only Power I have is in Normal Flex Wing or straight QB Power, both of which I treat as a sweep play rather than a tight power play. If I could get a working tight power play, that would certainly be helpful. For the most part, I treat Counter as my tight power play.

At UNC, I'm planning on running the equivalent as a Gun Wing T the rest of the way. I usually use the first 3-4 games of the season to determine what is working best, what isn't working or being used and rework things. For the most part, my offense there has turned into Power (QB and Inverted Veer) and Outside Zone (mostly option and Jet) and PA off Veer, Option and Jet. All traditional gun, plus some under center sweeps/end arounds. Nothing really complicated, I don't have the depth to mess around with much else, especially at WR and TE. I'm entering a stretch of user games so this should be interesting.

At NIU, I have the depth to do pretty much anything I want. We'll see how things shake out after the second game before I really get into trimming things down. I'm starting to really enjoy Jet and Inverted Veer quite a bit. I like being able to attack downhill with my QB.

Run the trap in the offset formations. That's the closest thing I have found. It's also in Ace Normal Flex.

 

[JSU Zack]

Done a lot of research lately in my roosts of the air raid and west coast. Looked at playbills from Leach, Holmgren, and Rush Propst (Hoover Bucs).

Holmgren's playbook is ridiculously huge. Leach's OU playbook from '99 is all under center. Propst has arguably the best book of them all. It's almost all two back old school air raid. Maybe 20 formations total with about 25 plays.

This eventually led me down what I like to call the high school air raid coaching tree. Found a guy that does basically clinics on YouTube. Also discovered my alma mater's head coach was on Propst staff @ Hoover as OC the year the playbook was made. The funny thing is Grass' offense looks nothing like this book. It's all shotgun and pistol spread running.

Since NCAA playbooks can't get all the concepts in al the formations, I've been making playbooks in PowerPoint like real coaches. I'll share later.

 

[JAR201166]

Done a lot of research lately in my roosts of the air raid and west coast. Looked at playbills from Leach, Holmgren, and Rush Propst (Hoover Bucs).

Holmgren's playbook is ridiculously huge. Leach's OU playbook from '99 is all under center. Propst has arguably the best book of them all. It's almost all two back old school air raid. Maybe 20 formations total with about 25 plays.

This eventually led me down what I like to call the high school air raid coaching tree. Found a guy that does basically clinics on YouTube. Also discovered my alma mater's head coach was on Propst staff @ Hoover as OC the year the playbook was made. The funny thing is Grass' offense looks nothing like this book. It's all shotgun and pistol spread running.

Since NCAA playbooks can't get all the concepts in al the formations, I've been making playbooks in PowerPoint like real coaches. I'll share later.

There was a documentary on Propst wednesday night on espnu. It was interesting to say the least...

 

[JSU Zack]

There was a documentary on Propst wednesday night on espnu. It was interesting to say the least...

I've seen it in bits and pieces. The guys is a mess in his personal life, but he knows football.

 

[TXHusker05]

I got my Spread Wing-T playbook set up, after a lengthy struggle dealing with corrupted playbooks and then getting the formation sets ordered the way I wanted.

It ended up being 34 formations, but it is only 249 plays. A big chunk of the formations are under center (9) and Wildcat (8), most of which I probably don't need but I wanted to be safe and see how much of it I used before I started pulling things out. At the moment, the playbook looks like this:

Ace

Twin TE
Bunch
Bunch Base

Each of these only have End Around/End Around Slash/PA End Around.

Weak I

Normal

Only Y Over Fly Sweep and Y Over Fly Sweep Dive.

Strong I

Normal
Twins
Twins Over
Y Trips
Twin TE

Most of these formations have just HB Toss/Sweep, FB Dive and PA FB Dive. A few also have a rollout/sprintout play and in Strong Normal I have the FB Screen.

Shotgun

Heavy
F Twins Over
Twin TE Slot
Twin TE Slot Wk
Monster
Normal
Normal Wk
Normal Y Slot
Y Trips
Y Trips Wk
Spread
Empty Trey
Empty Wing Trio
Empty Spread
Empty Quads
5WR Trio

Wildcat

Heavy Ace
Normal
Slot
Spread
Spread Flex
Twin TE
Wing
Fight Song

Goal Line

Twins Over

Depending on how much I use it, some of the Empty stuff will probably be removed and I'll probably trim down the Wildcat depending on how much of it I use. Wildcat Wing is really the only formations I'm attached to since I can get to it via tempo out of Twin TE Slot.

Concepts are pretty much Sweeps and Power. Buck Sweep, Buck Read, Dart Read, Inverted Veer, QB Power, HB Power, Jet Sweep. Some options and wrap plays here and there. A big piece of my offense here is coming out in Empty Trey, with 11 personnel subbed in like so:

WR------------------OOOOOY-------------------
---------HB-----------------------WR-----WR---
------------------------Q-----------------------

I use the Jet/Jet QB Power/PA Jet series as a base in this formation; however, I also have 2 audibles to Shotgun Normal. One of them is Inverted Veer (frontside read) and the other is Dart Read (backside read). When you audible from Empty Trey to Gun Normal, the slot WR to the right motions into the backfield with everyone else staying put so it is a fairly seamless audible. Some great passing concepts in that Empty formation as well to stretch the field.

I'm going to work on including that small series of plays into my other offense at some point, either Empty Trey to Gun Normal or Empty Y-Flex to Wing Trips Wk.

 

[Atmore]

I got my Spread Wing-T playbook set up, after a lengthy struggle dealing with corrupted playbooks and then getting the formation sets ordered the way I wanted.

It ended up being 34 formations, but it is only 249 plays. A big chunk of the formations are under center (9) and Wildcat (8), most of which I probably don't need but I wanted to be safe and see how much of it I used before I started pulling things out. At the moment, the playbook looks like this:

Ace

Twin TE
Bunch
Bunch Base

Each of these only have End Around/End Around Slash/PA End Around.

Weak I

Normal

Only Y Over Fly Sweep and Y Over Fly Sweep Dive.

Strong I

Normal
Twins
Twins Over
Y Trips
Twin TE

Most of these formations have just HB Toss/Sweep, FB Dive and PA FB Dive. A few also have a rollout/sprintout play and in Strong Normal I have the FB Screen.

Shotgun

Heavy
F Twins Over
Twin TE Slot
Twin TE Slot Wk
Monster
Normal
Normal Wk
Normal Y Slot
Y Trips
Y Trips Wk
Spread
Empty Trey
Empty Wing Trio
Empty Spread
Empty Quads
5WR Trio

Wildcat

Heavy Ace
Normal
Slot
Spread
Spread Flex
Twin TE
Wing
Fight Song

Goal Line

Twins Over

Depending on how much I use it, some of the Empty stuff will probably be removed and I'll probably trim down the Wildcat depending on how much of it I use. Wildcat Wing is really the only formations I'm attached to since I can get to it via tempo out of Twin TE Slot.

Concepts are pretty much Sweeps and Power. Buck Sweep, Buck Read, Dart Read, Inverted Veer, QB Power, HB Power, Jet Sweep. Some options and wrap plays here and there. A big piece of my offense here is coming out in Empty Trey, with 11 personnel subbed in like so:

WR------------------OOOOOY-------------------
---------HB-----------------------WR-----WR---
------------------------Q-----------------------

I use the Jet/Jet QB Power/PA Jet series as a base in this formation; however, I also have 2 audibles to Shotgun Normal. One of them is Inverted Veer (frontside read) and the other is Dart Read (backside read). When you audible from Empty Trey to Gun Normal, the slot WR to the right motions into the backfield with everyone else staying put so it is a fairly seamless audible. Some great passing concepts in that Empty formation as well to stretch the field.

I'm going to work on including that small series of plays into my other offense at some point, either Empty Trey to Gun Normal or Empty Y-Flex to Wing Trips Wk.

I wouldn't want to play against this but want to see it in action lol.... Defensively it looks like a headache....

 

[NavyHog]

I wouldn't want to play against this but want to see it in action lol.... Defensively it looks like a headache....

Get an X-Box buddy.

 

[TXHusker05]

Well if these CPU test games are any indication, this Spread Wing T is going to be devastating. I usually run 5 or 6 games at max tempo just to see if I uncover any formation quirks or motions/options where the hand-off glitches out, I've finished with over 600 yards in every game. Surprisingly, most of it is passing yards. Part of that is me just testing some things out but some of the compressed formations open up the passing game a lot more than I am used to. A lot of great sprintout plays and some good plays off of PA.

First human test should come later tonight so I guess we'll see what happens. After that game, I'll go back and trim it down and add/subtract some things. Really liking Inverted Veer lately, especially starting in Empty and motioning into the backfield.

 

[TXHusker05]

Damn, game one running Spread Wing-T wasn't bad at all. Won 56-18. Ended up with 427 yards on 45 plays. 30 rushes for 304 yards and 5 TD and 9 of 15 passing for 123 yards and 3 TD. QB threw also added 67 yards rushing and 2 TD. WR ran 8 times for 167 yards and 2 TD and caught a TD pass. I hit a few big Jet plays with him but the biggest gains were actually End Around out of Ace Bunch and an option play. I also threw a TD on the fake end around and probably could have had another TD on a PA Fake FB to the tackle eligible TE in Twins Over but the throw was awful.
All things considered, not so bad. Wasn't that great of a test though, it was a blow out early and I ended up facing Double A Gap blitzes damn near every play which was not very fun at all.

Did throw 2 INT in the game, both of them were forced throws I really did not need to make but they were in a blow out and I was trying some things out. Did not use Wildcat at all in that game, so I might start removing some of that stuff.

 

[KATOblaze]

Only if shallow cross worked like it's supposed to against man coverage or that would definitely be my base play in passing game

 

[JSU Zack]

Only if shallow cross worked like it's supposed to against man coverage or that would definitely be my base play in passing game

I've ran into a lot of route mirroring lately with shallow cross, especially on 3rd down.

 

[KATOblaze]

I think I remember seeing NyKia consistently throwing the dig against man coverage

 

[KATOblaze]

I've ran into a lot of route mirroring lately with shallow cross, especially on 3rd down.

Only ways to really beat man for me seem to be Smash/Y Corner and the backside slants I attach with stick

 

[bruin228]

Hit the dig vs man right when he cuts, it's a completion most of the time.

If you get off man, you can HR your X or Z to a curl or 12 yard out. Press man, if you're running Z or X shallow, you can tag your H or Y to a 12 yard out as well. With 11 or 12 personnel, you can use a corner from your TEs, like they do in that Drag Under play.

There are few things you can do.

 

[JAR201166]

I like to throw to the back if the shallow gets mirrored.

 

[JSU Zack]

Hit the dig vs man right when he cuts, it's a completion most of the time.

If you get off man, you can HR your X or Z to a curl or 12 yard out. Press man, if you're running Z or X shallow, you can tag your H or Y to a 12 yard out as well. With 11 or 12 personnel, you can use a corner from your TEs, like they do in that Drag Under play.

There are few things you can do.

I've had success with what you mentioned above. These days, I typically base out of a snag concept and run backside slants. Sometimes, I'll hot route the snag to a shallow cross along with the backside to create the mesh concept.

I've also discovered through YouTube some teams run a curl, snag, flat concept where the Y runs a snag in space to put the linebacker in conflict between the swing pass and snag while the outside receiver does the same thing to the cornerback.

This concept is actually in the game, but you have to motion the TE out to get the right read. Otherwise, the snag is covered by the Mike.

 

[JAR201166]

I've had success with what you mentioned above. These days, I typically base out of a snag concept and run backside slants. Sometimes, I'll hot route the snag to a shallow cross along with the backside to create the mesh concept.

I've also discovered through YouTube some teams run a curl, snag, flat concept where the Y runs a snag in space to put the linebacker in conflict between the swing pass and snag while the outside receiver does the same thing to the cornerback.

This concept is actually in the game, but you have to motion the TE out to get the right read. Otherwise, the snag is covered by the Mike.

I think you could run this with the z spot play just hotroute the corner to a curl

 

[JSU Zack]

I think you could run this with the z spot play just hotroute the corner to a curl

That's actually what I typically instead of hard calling it. Z Spot is my base passing play as I like to run the ball and kill it if they're losing the box. I do some interesting stuff with the play.

 

[TXHusker05]

Shallow used to be a staple of my offense but I can't ever seem to recruit athletic receivers and the slower possession types I do recruit get mirrored the whole time. Z Spot has probably become my primary passing play as well, mostly out of 3x1 sets (4WR Trio or Y Trips) but I do run it out of 2x2 and Empty quite a bit. I like Z Spot out of Empty Wing Trio in short yardage situations because you can call it in the huddle and kill out to QB Power if everyone is covered.

I'm becoming more and more reliant on sprintout plays in my offenses. Rollout/Sprintout Smash, Z Spot, etc. I've also started doing some naked bootleg stuff off of PA, slowly rolling/shuffling away from the play action fake. You have to be a little careful if the DE is coming right up the field, but I like the passing lanes I get when I move the QB a bit.

I'm also fairly reliant on Y Corner, I feel like it is a good compliment to Z Spot and beats zone and man equally. Y Corner is pretty easily to create via hot routes. I run Smash from time to time, but I prefer running it as Rollout Smash rather than a straight drop back. Otherwise the majority of my passes are off of PA or hot routes. I do a ton of hot routing lately, a lot of backside slants/hitches/fades as well as hot routing a TE/H-Back for a quick pop pass up the seam. Working so far, I finally feel like I have a coherent passing attack.

Should have another user game later with my Spread Wing T to see how things are working. Really liking it so far. Have my newer Spread-I set up at NIU, but not liking it quite as much. It's a big playbook. Trying to see if I can blend a smaller Spread-I package with a smaller Wing-T package and see what happens.

 

[LEGEND]

Ran into the mirrored possesion receiver crap yesterday. Couldn't get any separation at all the entire gm! Even shake routes are mirrored with these guys.

Couldn't throw slants or anything... what do you guys do in cases like this?

 

[JSU Zack]

Ran into the mirrored possesion receiver crap yesterday. Couldn't get any separation at all the entire gm! Even shake routes are mirrored with these guys.

Couldn't throw slants or anything... what do you guys do in cases like this?

Run the damn ball.

 

[bruin228]

 

[NavyHog]

If your WRs are good enough as soon as they break on the slant they will get enough separation to where your QB can fit it into a tight window. It won't be there every time (which is fine since nothing is automatic), but more often than not.

The best play against man is Switch from SG Halfback Normal. The TE (A) will leave any safety or LB in the dust as soon as he makes his break towards the middle of the field. The HB out of the backfield is also a man beater if you have time to wait for him to make his break towards the sideline.

 

[KATOblaze]

Run the ball, 11 personnel for me is a must though as that TE on any route against a LB is murder, then 6 DBs means it's time to move the TE in the backfield and run the ball

 

[LEGEND]

Tried that exact play multiple time...it was mirrored or the route jumped each time! Tried running and couldn't get anyting going. Guy played man under pinched his line and spread LB's. That shut down everything!

LB's or DB's shot gap everytime on runs and mirrored pass routes. Only time I'd seen stuff like that was with the qtr's run commit glitch. Every route wss mirrored... looked at highlights that I could. There was not one replay where a receiver was open.

 

[JAR201166]

Throw to the back @LEGEND or run the ball. I have noticed Kiffin putting Cooper in the backfield a lot here lately

 

[TXHusker05]

Ran into the mirrored possesion receiver crap yesterday. Couldn't get any separation at all the entire gm! Even shake routes are mirrored with these guys.

Couldn't throw slants or anything... what do you guys do in cases like this?

Well, like others say, I run the ball. Then again, my entire offense is running the ball and I pass as a last resort/to keep the defense honest. I do need to be a bit better at passing on early downs, but it gets tough when my run game gets me loaded boxes and press man defense most of the time. Eventually I hope to recruit receivers good enough to press break 9/10 times to counter that but right now I'm stuck with some fairly slow possession receivers everywhere.

It sucks that I have a 99 CTH receiver at NIU who I can rarely get the ball to because he's 84 speed and not very big. He just cannot shake defenders, most CB recruits come in at 90 SPD at a minimum and are up to the mid-90s by the time they are Seniors. Possession receivers have no such luck. He did make a huge game saving one handed catch last night to beat Flann though. He was mirrored pretty well but he made the play.

 

[TXHusker05]

Much better game with the Spread-I tonight against @LEGEND, although my team was about 12 OVR points better than his. His D didn't really have a shot. I scored touchdowns on my first two plays, a 75 yard triple option keeper and a shorter counter play after a turnover. I only got to run 35 plays since it was 28-0 in the 1st quarter and I didn't want to go tempo in a blowout. 393 yards, 28 rushes for 246 and 5 TD and 6 of 7 passing for 147 yards and a TD.

QB ran for 124 yards and 2 TD on just 4 carries, HB ran for 107 yards and 3 TD on 19 carries. Most of my runs were either zone triple or something off of Jet Sweep. Very little Dive, very little gap stuff, although I did run a few QB Power/Counter plays including a lot TD. A lot more option in that game than I usually run, I really wanted to test it and get a feel for it.

Did a lot of motioning into Split Offset to run Triple Option. The opening play of the game was a 75 yard TD run starting in Wing Trips Offset Wk and motioning the slot player into the backfield to run Triple Option out of Split Y Offset. I really liked how that worked. Good way to ambush people with option early. Later on it was a lot of motioning from Wing Offset Wk to Split Offset (H-Back FB comes into backfield as dive back) or motioning from 4WR Trio to Split Offset. I like those looks because the defense has to spread out to protect against bubble and other screens, but then if they do, I can bring the back/slot back in and run option.

Legend did a good job of altering his option defense setting so I really couldn't predict a give/keep read, that took my inverted veer game out. I still tried running it a few times, but got give reads each time and it sucked. He was in a Bear front quite a bit as well which forced me out of some of my bread and butter stuff.

One thing I would kill for is a QB Wrap play out of Gun Wing Offset formations. Make it identical to the Lead Read except the H-Back loads the defensive end if he stays home rather than bypasses to block at the second level. I think that would make people rethink aggressive option defense.

 

[TXHusker05]

Another very good game at UNC with the Spread Wing-T vs @NavyHog. Won 34-13. Started very slowly including an option fumble but once the kinks got ironed out, it worked really well. 422 yards of offense, 39 rushes for 223 yards and 3 TD and 10 of 14 passing for 199 yards and a TD.

Had to go to my secondary stuff pretty quickly in that game because Navy was all over my Jet Sweep and option game. Navy always causes havoc for my offenses, especially option, this time was no different. My WR only managed 8 yards rushing on 9 carries, luckily my QB stepped up. In addition to the 10 of 14 for 199 yards and a TD he ran 22 times for 131 yards and 2 TD. My tailback ran 7 times for 81 yards, most of which was on a 43 yard TD on buck sweep. The WR did score a TD on a screen pass and did have a key run on an under center toss play to convert a first down late.

Had a few good runs off of QB Power, I formation subbed 6 OL and 2 TE into Twin TE Slot so I could solely run QB Power and scored a TD off of it. Ran a few Buck Sweeps, ran one midline read, a few dart reads off of my Empty Trey -> Gun Normal motion. One went for a TD. Option is damn tough to run against Navy, he is too good at manual run support with conservative option D.

I think I need to install some more QB run stuff, Blast and Power and maybe a few more Wraps. That way if my Option game gets destroyed, I can at least keep the ball in my QBs hands. The under center stuff was pretty great though, my WR lined up at HB and HB at FB. I ran a few FB Dives and a few toss plays to the WR. Also one Power Option keep when I caught Navy in a bad alignment. Had a pop pass to my TE out of Twins Over.

Really like this playbook. I may need start running it at NIU if the Spread-I keeps having issues.

 

[TXHusker05]

Add another huge game for the Spread Wing-T, this one over Flann, 42-9. No stats available because the game froze at the end, but it was a huge game on the ground. My WR must have run for 120 yards between Jet, Counter and under center Toss. Passing game was solid, hit a few good screens including a long TD on Strong I Normal F Screen which is one of my shock plays after a change of possession.

The Spread Wing T serves as both a ball control offense and a quick attack offense, I can adjust according to the pace of the game. Had a 10 play 88 yard 4 minute TD drive in the game, had a one play TD drive in the game. Not sure what I'll do with it next year when the WR graduates, but that's a problem for another day.

The problem for today is the disaster that my Spread-I is. The playbook is bloated, I can't run tempo because I'm scrolling through so many formations and I feel overwhelmed by it. In my game vs @bruin228 tonight, he completely shut me down until the last quarter of the game. I ended up with 461 yards, 349 and 5 TD rushing on 35 carries but that isn't really fair. At least 200 of those rushing yards came in the final 7 minutes of the game. Big plays really skewed my total yardage, I probably had about 250 yards on 8 plays including touchdowns of 34, 66 and 81 and then the remaining 100 on 27 carries.

I feel like my Spread-I has no identity. It is obviously run first, but trying to mix inside zone and zone stretch (Jet) and reads and options and sweeps plus a power/counter game gets a little tough to handle. I have a ton of guys I want to feature, both top HBs, my FB, my QB. and I want to have different combinations of receivers on/off the LOS. I think I need to just commit to one thing, either focus on being power/counter/sweep ala the Wing-T offense or focus on being more of an inside zone option (read/triple) based offense.

If I went Spread Triple, I would need to have an answer for people playing games with my reads. Bruin did a great job messing with my reads but I also have a very limited option playbook. Power/Counter did nothing in that game. Jet didn't do much either. Wrap, Trap and Triple were my best plays.

 

[KATOblaze]

Have you ever considered the less is more way of thinking as in just having what you need or go to the most formation wise

 

[bruin228]

I need to figure out how to run better with my Mizzou spread. Finesse spread teams are hard for me to run the ball with.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I need to figure out how to run better with my Mizzou spread. Finesse spread teams are hard for me to run the ball with.

I have gotten a lot better at running the OZ/Sweep out of gun spread formations. I have also figured out which Counters are more effective than others. With that said, I still see those as complimentary runs. I need to have something downhill in the mix, whether it is Inside Zone or something out of the Pistol.

 

[TXHusker05]

Have you ever considered the less is more way of thinking as in just having what you need or go to the most formation wise

I've considered it, but it is tougher to do that in Offset Gun. In reality, my entire offense is 5 formations:

2x1 Split
2x1 Stack
2x1 Slant
2x2 Spread
3x1 Trio

But in practice, those 5 formations are 13 formations in the playbook because I have different players off/on the line of scrimmage so I can throw bubble/run Jet. So those formations turn into:

Split Y Offset
Split Offset
Normal Flex Wing
Normal Flex Wing Wk
Normal Offset Wk
Wing Offset
Wing Offset Wk
Wing Trips Offset
Wing Trips Offset Wk
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
4WR Trio
4WR Trio Str

If it was just those 13 formations, that wouldn't be so bad but once you start adding Normal Offset, Y Trips Offset, Trio Offset, Trio Unbalanced, Emptys, etc it ends up at 30 formations and 325+ plays very quickly. My Spread Wing-T is very simple, it is 30 formations, but 15 of them are Wildcat and under center and the total play count is 250.

If I can decide between going power/counter and being inside zone/spread triple, then I should be able to trim things down. Last night against @bruin228, I ran mostly 4WR Trio/Trio Str, Spread Flex/Offset, Split Offset. That grouping worked fairly well, so if I were to base off of option, I would focus on those 5 formations with the Wing formations serving as sort of a change-up.

If I went to power/counter, I might ditch the entire idea of offset gun and run my Wing-T, slightly tweaked. The issue with that is getting my FB involved. The guy is an awesome player and arguably my best blocker and needs to be on the field. For some formations I can line him up at HB and let him lead block for Jet/QB Power, but I'm not sure about the rest.

Right now, I'm leaning the option route.

 

[JSU Zack]

Since I swapped to the Xbone, I only have Madden to play, so I've been working on an under center version of the Gulf Coast. The fun thing is it actually has better plays with better execution in madden. I've converted most of the offense to what I'm calling the Bunch offense. It's mostly 3x1 tight formations from various personnel groups.

It's all about passing. Spot and Mesh are the base plays with the Waggle and Verts as constraints. Runs include blast, stretch, power, counter, and the jet (end around) series.

 

[KATOblaze]

I've considered it, but it is tougher to do that in Offset Gun. In reality, my entire offense is 5 formations:

2x1 Split
2x1 Stack
2x1 Slant
2x2 Spread
3x1 Trio

But in practice, those 5 formations are 13 formations in the playbook because I have different players off/on the line of scrimmage so I can throw bubble/run Jet. So those formations turn into:

Split Y Offset
Split Offset
Normal Flex Wing
Normal Flex Wing Wk
Normal Offset Wk
Wing Offset
Wing Offset Wk
Wing Trips Offset
Wing Trips Offset Wk
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
4WR Trio
4WR Trio Str

If it was just those 13 formations, that wouldn't be so bad but once you start adding Normal Offset, Y Trips Offset, Trio Offset, Trio Unbalanced, Emptys, etc it ends up at 30 formations and 325+ plays very quickly. My Spread Wing-T is very simple, it is 30 formations, but 15 of them are Wildcat and under center and the total play count is 250.

If I can decide between going power/counter and being inside zone/spread triple, then I should be able to trim things down. Last night against @bruin228, I ran mostly 4WR Trio/Trio Str, Spread Flex/Offset, Split Offset. That grouping worked fairly well, so if I were to base off of option, I would focus on those 5 formations with the Wing formations serving as sort of a change-up.

If I went to power/counter, I might ditch the entire idea of offset gun and run my Wing-T, slightly tweaked. The issue with that is getting my FB involved. The guy is an awesome player and arguably my best blocker and needs to be on the field. For some formations I can line him up at HB and let him lead block for Jet/QB Power, but I'm not sure about the rest.

Right now, I'm leaning the option route.

You need to look at every formation and write down the reason you have it in there like for me I know I keep Trio Unbalanced or Trips TE to formationally attack a 3-3-5 defense I myself want to hover towards 8 formation

 

[Craig7835]

Since I swapped to the Xbone, I only have Madden to play, so I've been working on an under center version of the Gulf Coast. The fun thing is it actually has better plays with better execution in madden. I've converted most of the offense to what I'm calling the Bunch offense. It's mostly 3x1 tight formations from various personnel groups.

It's all about passing. Spot and Mesh are the base plays with the Waggle and Verts as constraints. Runs include blast, stretch, power, counter, and the jet (end around) series.

So basically you running a Compression Set Spread Offense with the Bunch sets?

 

[TXHusker05]

You need to look at every formation and write down the reason you have it in there like for me I know I keep Trio Unbalanced or Trips TE to formationally attack a 3-3-5 defense I myself want to hover towards 8 formation

Yeah, I wouldn't keep the two closed 3x1 sets if it weren't for the constant 335/425 defenses I face. Bruin's 335 was kicking my ass until I went 3x1 late in that game. I really like having multiple formations, but I do need to trim down a little bit. I think if I can decide what I'm going to focus on for concepts, I can trim formations down. Right now I'm trying to run A LOT. The entire offense is basically:

Inside Zone/Zone Split/Read/Lead Read/Triple
Counter
Power/Q Power/Inverted Veer
Buck Sweep
Jet including Wildcat (Plus some fake Jet stuff)

PA off of IZ and PA off of Jet, as well as a couple PA off of Inverted Veer in the formations I have it.

Pretty generic drop back passing game. Y Cross/Corner, Shallow, Drive, Smash, Verts.

It's a lot. If I focused more on just being inside zone and option, I could rip a ton of formations out. I could probably limit myself to about 12, plus some special formations for short yardage. It would basically be IZ/IZ Split/IZ Read/Triple (Split, Motion and Slot) and PA off of IZ. I'd need a counter to people playing games with my reads, Wrap could probably do the trick there, it did against Bruin. I've never really run a Spread Triple, most of my offenses are power based. Even my Spread-I was.

If I focused on Power/Counter, I would probably ditch offset gun and go with something similar to what I'm doing with my Spread Wing-T. Not really sure how to get my FB involved there.

 

[JSU Zack]

So basically you running a Compression Set Spread Offense with the Bunch sets?

Basically that with an air raid/west coast passing game.

 

[JSU Zack]

Yeah, I wouldn't keep the two closed 3x1 sets if it weren't for the constant 335/425 defenses I face. Bruin's 335 was kicking my ass until I went 3x1 late in that game. I really like having multiple formations, but I do need to trim down a little bit. I think if I can decide what I'm going to focus on for concepts, I can trim formations down. Right now I'm trying to run A LOT. The entire offense is basically:

Inside Zone/Zone Split/Read/Lead Read/Triple
Counter
Power/Q Power/Inverted Veer
Buck Sweep
Jet including Wildcat (Plus some fake Jet stuff)

PA off of IZ and PA off of Jet, as well as a couple PA off of Inverted Veer in the formations I have it.

Pretty generic drop back passing game. Y Cross/Corner, Shallow, Drive, Smash, Verts.

It's a lot. If I focused more on just being inside zone and option, I could rip a ton of formations out. I could probably limit myself to about 12, plus some special formations for short yardage. It would basically be IZ/IZ Split/IZ Read/Triple (Split, Motion and Slot) and PA off of IZ. I'd need a counter to people playing games with my reads, Wrap could probably do the trick there, it did against Bruin. I've never really run a Spread Triple, most of my offenses are power based. Even my Spread-I was.

If I focused on Power/Counter, I would probably ditch offset gun and go with something similar to what I'm doing with my Spread Wing-T. Not really sure how to get my FB involved there.

Why closed trips instead of trey? Just curious.

 

[TXHusker05]

Why closed trips instead of trey? Just curious.

I like having my TE aligned away from trips vs 425 and 335 because of the alignment issues in game. It guarantees a linebacker or safety (or both) on slot receivers and a corner as the force player to the TE side. 425/335 is very frustrating to me because of the alignment issues, but it is pretty much all I see anymore so I need answers. @RamesuThe1's 425 kicked my ass in the ACC Championship Game. It is so hard to run outside against that look because there is always an overhang player, it funnels everything between the tackles which is not the strength of my Gun Wing T.

Overall a very good season at UNC in the first year of that offense, but the horrible failure in the ACC Championship game to ruin an undefeated season is tough to take. I'll put up my final stats when I get on NCAA later, it was a huge statistical year rushing... I threw 50 passes in my bowl game though.

 

[TXHusker05]

@JSU Zack tell me about your pro spread. I've got an odd set of personnel at UNC this year and think I want to run something a little bit more diverse and balanced. I'm struggling to decide between Ace and Pistol with some Gun mixed in. I have two mid-90s OVR HBs, but both are very slow at top speed and very slow to accelerate which kind of screws me in a lot of ways.

I have a few great pass catching TEs including a true freshman ATH/WR/TE that is 6'5" and 87 SPD. Not a great blocker and I took an OVR hit from 77 to 70 to move him to TE, but I figured he'd be useful. I don't want to be full on spread pass, I need to run with these backs (and my QB) but I'd be silly not to throw to these TEs. I also have 6 really solid receivers, all true freshmen plus 2 returning Sophomores.

I want to isolate the WRs to one side of the field and do some things like that where I can get a size mismatch. I also have a 6'6" WR that I want to use the same way.