Spread Offense

[RedmondLonghorn]

I forgot about those. That works. It'd be great to have a wheel behind a mid screen though, so you could hit that when the corner follows the screen.

And then have it negated by an OPI call.

 

[TXHusker05]

I forgot about those. That works. It'd be great to have a wheel behind a mid screen though, so you could hit that when the corner follows the screen.

That's all my Double Screen concept is. Mid Screen coming from one way, TB (or H-Back) Wheel going behind it. Triple Screen adds a now screen backside. All passes are completed at or behind the line of scrimmage so no OPI.

Biggest issue is that the read gets a little dicey, I've misread the throw on that double screen concept a few times and it is a pick 6 if you do.

 

[TXHusker05]

Here are my equally awesome paint skills at work for my Triple Screen:

Hot route X to a now screen (Right Trigger hot route), Hot route RB to Wheel. You can hot route B to a shallow, but it negatively impacts the timing so I stopped doing that.

Pre-snap read is the CB over X. If he is off, it will be a simple snap and throw instantly to X. Don't forgot X's hot route though, if you throw his route as designed he'll run backwards. If the corner over X is tight, you're going back to the other side. If the CB follows the Mid Screen down the line, it is an automatic Wheel throw. Just lob it, once you get the timing and reads down, your back will catch the wheel right at the LOS. If the CB does anything else, throw the mid screen.

You do have to be careful on this play though, there will be times it is man coverage and the CB will follow the WR down the line... BUT the player assigned to the HB in man coverage will come up field completely unblocked and intercept the Wheel. If that happens, you're probably either going to have to eat it or quickly rifle it to the HB and take the TFL.

This is the Triple Screen version but you can run it as a Double Screen out of 3x1 sets as well. I've experimented with the Double Screen concept out of 4x1 Quads sets but with a shallow and flat concept. Works from time to time, but not too confident in it.

 

[bruin228]

I sort of found a way to do that Double Screen but with the wheel run by a WR like I wanted. Using the Mid Screen in Empty Wing Trio, you can hot route the TE to a wheel route to go to the area vacated by the corner following the screen.

 

[TXHusker05]

I sort of found a way to do that Double Screen but with the wheel run by a WR like I wanted. Using the Mid Screen in Empty Wing Trio, you can hot route the TE to a wheel route to go to the area vacated by the corner following the screen.

That's not a bad idea, wing players in the backfield are treated like backs when you hot route them. I wonder if there are any other formations like that. Probably not many, at least not with a mid screen.

Have you tried doing a Mid Screen but with the slot receiver hot routed to like a vertical or something? That one might get an OPI flag but it would get you something similar. I had been creating my own Bubble/Hitch concepts out of 3x1 sets from time to time. Stick Bubble is already in the game in quite a few formations but not in any formations I like.

 

[KATOblaze]

I think I might just attack with the all the quick game stuff early so they're not thinking about pinching their line or anything like that then start attacking inside again, especiallyespecially from 3x1 sets which I think are the hardest to defend in football

 

[JSU Zack]

There's a curl wheel play in Trips or Trips HB Wk that would work better than a fake screen since that weird animation is not there. Just got route the curl receiver (Z) to a now screen.

 

[JSU Zack]

Went in last night and retooled the Gulf Coast book with more under center and the core shotgun/pistol sets. QB racked up 6 TD's.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

There's a curl wheel play in Trips or Trips HB Wk that would work better than a fake screen since that weird animation is not there. Just got route the curl receiver (Z) to a now screen.

Trips Curl Flat Wheel

I tried it out hot routing the outside receiver on the trips side to a now screen. It doesn't work very well. At least not from the middle of the field. The receiver running the wheel route runs into the outside receiver about 60% of the time. Even when he slips by he doesn't get free against man (there is no pick effect). It might work better from either of the hashes, I haven't tested that yet.

Hot routing to a shallow, slant or whip works much better, depending on the coverage that is shown.

I was testing all of this against the Texas secondary, which is pretty darn good though.

 

[TXHusker05]

I've got some free time coming up so I think I'm going to rededicate myself to my Spread-I. I discovered a few quirks/tweaks that I can make, especially with motion that should help solve some of my problems. I've been watching a ton of Auburn stuff just to get a few ideas and I want to put more focus on series based play calling. For example, IZ Split->IZR Lead->Counter->PA F Slide. All identical backfield motions with the mesh and H-Back coming across the formation. That paired with some window dressing motion with my Z WR could help some of my problems.

I've also noticed it is a lot easier to threaten the perimeter if I use some manually motion. For example, if I go Normal Flex Wing Wk where the base alignment is:

--------Y-------OOOOO---------X---
Z-------------------H---------------
-------------------Q-----------------
-----------------T-------------------

I can motion my Z to either crack a LB or motion him all the way across. That should force the outermost defender to tighten up and, in turn, help me get leverage to get outside. The idea initially started because I was trying to find a way to create Auburn's double lead read play where two H-Backs arc block and I kind of ended up with this. I can also use the same motion on pass plays and just have Z run a Shallow (which isn't impacted by snapping the ball while a WR is in motion).

Motion has always been one of the missing ingredients in my Spread-I. It is usually the most effective part of my Osborne offense so hopefully I can figure out a way to make it work here. Another interesting quirk is that if you put a non-WR in that Z spot (like a HB or TE) and audible or go no-huddle, he actually swaps spots with the Y. That is both good and bad. Good because I can put a HB out there to run Jet or bluff motion, then go tempo and get him in the slot to run bubble or option. Bad because it gets my less athletic slot (Y) player outside.

I'm actually excited to get working on this though, I finally have some good ideas and a grasp on how I want to do this.

 

[bruin228]

That Trips Curl Flat Wheel play is awesome. Basically the same play Mumme and Leach used to beat Alabama when they were at Kentucky.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

That Trips Curl Flat Wheel play is awesome. Basically the same play Mumme and Leach used to beat Alabama when they were at Kentucky.

It can lead to some very big plays, especially against a Cover 2 zone or similar. However I get fixated on trying to hit the wheel deep and end up taking too many sacks on that play.

 

[bruin228]

Yeah, the curl pops open far more often so just hit that until they creep up. The post in that play is also fantastic.

 

[TXHusker05]

That Curl Flat Wheel play is weird because all the other Curl Flat Wheel plays in the game actually have a Flat route. That one in Trips turns the Flat into a Post for some reason, I think it is the only play like it in the game.

Here is the one in Pistol:

Here it is in Gun:

I like the Post version a lot better, but I can't stand "traditional" gun formations out of 10 personnel. The run game is mediocre at best unless you're running a ton of option and I hate having pass-only formations. I wonder if I can create that concept or something close to it out of Offset Gun. Maybe use this play:

Just hot route B to a curl. Should be the same result. At least from the Curl/Wheel perspective. I would probably keep X and A the same since that gives me Shallow Cross to the middle of the field and curl flat to the other.

I could also try using some of the Fake Screen Wheel plays to create it.

Just hot route the outside WR to a curl or even a 10 yard dig/in route would work. Not all of those Fake Screen plays have the pump fake animation for the QB which would help avoid taking a sack.

I could probably create it out of Wing formations too with the H-Back running a Wheel, but the timing may be off since he has farther to go. Worth a shot though.

 

[TXHusker05]

Some other options for that type of concept depending on what type of offense you run:

Not to mention all the RNS routes in various formations. I love a good wheel route, I need to run more of them.

 

[bruin228]

The Curl TE Wheel one is good. Flanker Dig is hard to read though. I run that for my Air Raid stuff and I swear I almost always throw a pick.

I use this one a lot to get that same Trips concept (minus the post) into a 2x2 set.

 

[TXHusker05]

The Curl TE Wheel one is good. Flanker Dig is hard to read though. I run that for my Air Raid stuff and I swear I almost always throw a pick.

I use this one a lot to get that same Trips concept (minus the post) into a 2x2 set.

I was thinking about installing either Pistol Spread or Gun Spread just for those RNS concepts, those are really great plays, especially that one. Flanker Close Wk has them as well, which is an Offset Gun formation. Could maybe go that route.

 

[JSU Zack]

That Curl Flat Wheel play is weird because all the other Curl Flat Wheel plays in the game actually have a Flat route. That one in Trips turns the Flat into a Post for some reason, I think it is the only play like it in the game.

Here is the one in Pistol:

Here it is in Gun:

I like the Post version a lot better, but I can't stand "traditional" gun formations out of 10 personnel. The run game is mediocre at best unless you're running a ton of option and I hate having pass-only formations. I wonder if I can create that concept or something close to it out of Offset Gun. Maybe use this play:

Just hot route B to a curl. Should be the same result. At least from the Curl/Wheel perspective. I would probably keep X and A the same since that gives me Shallow Cross to the middle of the field and curl flat to the other.

I could also try using some of the Fake Screen Wheel plays to create it.

Just hot route the outside WR to a curl or even a 10 yard dig/in route would work. Not all of those Fake Screen plays have the pump fake animation for the QB which would help avoid taking a sack.

I could probably create it out of Wing formations too with the H-Back running a Wheel, but the timing may be off since he has farther to go. Worth a shot though.

I get my best gains from 10 personnel. What are you running? The inside zone plays in spread and trips are almost unfair. Automatic five yards against MOFO.

 

[TXHusker05]

I get my best gains from 10 personnel. What are you running? The inside zone plays in spread and trips are almost unfair. Automatic five yards against MOFO.

Is that against the CPU or against users? I haven't seen a user who matches personnel in a long time so going 10 personnel still results in base defense or maybe Nickel if I'm lucky. I'm run first/run heavy and I do not face much Cover 2 in anything except obvious passing downs. I'm mostly facing Cover 3 with an invert safety (plus user controlled LB or FS) or Cover 1 Press Man. Most users realize you really don't need to defend the width of the field in this game so I face loaded boxes all day, even when I go 10 personnel, which is rare because I'd rather just put the extra player(s) in the box and block the loaded box than worry about going 10 personnel and having to throw to loosen things up.

The "traditional" gun run game is at its best when you are pass first. At least in 10 personnel spread formations. If I was a good enough passer to use the pass to set up the run, I probably would do that and I'd be in traditional gun. Traditional gun has far better pass concepts than Offset Gun does as well as some really good option plays. Maybe if I was a heavier option player I'd like traditional gun more because of the different dart/counter/etc read/option plays but I really don't run a ton of option, mostly because users just use aggressive option D.

 

[JSU Zack]

Is that against the CPU or against users? I haven't seen a user who matches personnel in a long time so going 10 personnel still results in base defense or maybe Nickel if I'm lucky. I'm run first/run heavy and I do not face much Cover 2 in anything except obvious passing downs. I'm mostly facing Cover 3 with an invert safety (plus user controlled LB or FS) or Cover 1 Press Man. Most users realize you really don't need to defend the width of the field in this game so I face loaded boxes all day, even when I go 10 personnel, which is rare because I'd rather just put the extra player(s) in the box and block the loaded box than worry about going 10 personnel and having to throw to loosen things up.

The "traditional" gun run game is at its best when you are pass first. At least in 10 personnel spread formations. If I was a good enough passer to use the pass to set up the run, I probably would do that and I'd be in traditional gun. Traditional gun has far better pass concepts than Offset Gun does as well as some really good option plays. Maybe if I was a heavier option player I'd like traditional gun more because of the different dart/counter/etc read/option plays but I really don't run a ton of option, mostly because users just use aggressive option D.

I only play the CPU now. I don't get much enjoyment from versus games unless it's the occasional game with my brother on Madden for shits and giggles.

My distaste for the "community sliders" I helped develop with BJC is well documented. It neuters the passing game to the point every offense is one-dimensional. I've since returned to the default sliders and decide to take the game as it is: an arcade football game (not a sim). I still apply sim-style gameplay methodologies, but I'm not going to make the game more unbalanced than it is just because defense can't stop anything.

Spoiler

Offenses are still unbeatable even without the passing game if you know what you're doing, so the sliders we made to make things even on both sides of the ball did not work.

 

[TXHusker05]

I only play the CPU now. I don't get much enjoyment from versus games unless it's the occasional game with my brother on Madden for shits and giggles.

My distaste for the "community sliders" I helped develop with BJC is well documented. It neuters the passing game to the point every offense is one-dimensional. I've since returned to the default sliders and decide to take the game as it is: an arcade football game (not a sim). I still apply sim-style gameplay methodologies, but I'm not going to make the game more unbalanced than it is just because defense can't stop anything.

Spoiler

Offenses are still unbeatable even without the passing game if you know what you're doing, so the sliders we made to make things even on both sides of the ball did not work.

We've had slider issues recently in both of the ODs still going. Part of the issue has been that the game changes as you go on in a dynasty. Edited roster players and CPU generated recruits are drastically different in their initial ratings, especially when it comes to things like blocking for backs and receivers so we've had issues there. I also feel like the game sped up drastically as we went on, probably because of how quickly players advance in the off-season when it comes to speed and acceleration. A 90 SPD player can come in and leave as a 94-95 SPD player when it is said and done, that's just silly to me.

I wish there was a slider or toggle to slow training progression, just like there is a toggle to slow coach skill tree XP.

 

[TXHusker05]

@JSU Zack Do you run any inverted veer in your offense?

I've been going back and forth on if I want to start using IV. Right now the only IV I have in my offense is the Jet IV in F Twins Over and WC Spread Flex. I've always seen IV as a QB-centric play and I haven't had a QB I want to feature as a runner recently, but now I'm thinking that it might be a good counter for the few people who run Conservative Option D vs me. I've had a lot of people lately realize I don't have a runner at QB and so they dare me to keep it with him on options and then try and clean up the tackle manually. I'm wondering if IV will help me there because I imagine that's a much harder user tackle.

Inverted Veer for me has two issues, 1) The obvious formation tell and 2) The ease with which the DE can tackle the HB despite a give read. #1 is avoided a little bit by going up-tempo where users won't have time to adjust. #2 is a huge issue though because IV would be mostly destroyed by anyone running Aggressive D.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I have never gotten an Inverted Veer play to work right. It is like the pistol read option circa NCAA '12 to me.

 

[TXHusker05]

I have never gotten an Inverted Veer play to work right. It is like the pistol read option circa NCAA '12 to me.

Yeah I've never really run it because it seems like the HB gets tackled no matter what. The issue is that the QB doesn't take any shuffle steps like inverted veer should have to help clean up the read. It is great if you get a keep read, but that is rare since most people play aggressive option D.

I'd love to make it work though.

 

[JSU Zack]

@JSU Zack Do you run any inverted veer in your offense?

I've been going back and forth on if I want to start using IV. Right now the only IV I have in my offense is the Jet IV in F Twins Over and WC Spread Flex. I've always seen IV as a QB-centric play and I haven't had a QB I want to feature as a runner recently, but now I'm thinking that it might be a good counter for the few people who run Conservative Option D vs me. I've had a lot of people lately realize I don't have a runner at QB and so they dare me to keep it with him on options and then try and clean up the tackle manually. I'm wondering if IV will help me there because I imagine that's a much harder user tackle.

Inverted Veer for me has two issues, 1) The obvious formation tell and 2) The ease with which the DE can tackle the HB despite a give read. #1 is avoided a little bit by going up-tempo where users won't have time to adjust. #2 is a huge issue though because IV would be mostly destroyed by anyone running Aggressive D.

I only get big gains off the keep read.

 

[TXHusker05]

I only get big gains off the keep read.

Yep that's my experience with it. Could be a good answer to the few people who constantly play me with Conservative Option D. I'm not sure I would run Inverted Veer if I was facing Aggressive Option D and forcing give reads. The give read is a disaster more often than not. Even if the DE doesn't reach out and grab you as you run by, it's tough to get the edge. Jet IV out of F Twins Over is kind of nice.

 

[JSU Zack]

Yep that's my experience with it. Could be a good answer to the few people who constantly play me with Conservative Option D. I'm not sure I would run Inverted Veer if I was facing Aggressive Option D and forcing give reads. The give read is a disaster more often than not. Even if the DE doesn't reach out and grab you as you run by, it's tough to get the edge. Jet IV out of F Twins Over is kind of nice.

Just add it in one formation and consider it a trick play.

 

[TXHusker05]

Just add it in one formation and consider it a trick play.

I did that in my playbook at UNC just to see there before I mess with it at NIU. At NIU it'll depend who I start at QB. Originally it was going to be a 90 SPD JUCO JR ATH that I signed, but my two returning QBs, a SO and JR are 88 and 86 OVR and I'm not sure I can sit those guys.

I'm planning on giving the quick guy a series or two early in my first game to see how it works. If he's solid, I'll probably install a little inverted veer specially for him. Maybe out of a formation like Split Slot.

 

[TXHusker05]

Well I had an interesting game vs Ram tonight in BSCFL. Defensive battle, won 20-7. I threw 3 INT and fumbled once. I managed just 331 yards on 53 plays, running 42 times for 222 yards and a TD and throwing 5 of 11 for 109 yards and a TD. Take out a 62 yard TD pass and 64 yard TD run, I did not do much of anything. I actually ran a surprising amount of Inverted Veer in that game, mostly because it was all that was working. I think Ram had Conservative Option D on so I was stuck with a ton of keeps. My QB ran 28 times for 126 yards, my WR ran 9 times for 84 yards but 64 of those yards were that TD run.

Jet did not work until that long run, Fly Sweep did not work at all, End Arounds did not work at all. Option was hit or miss, against mostly because they all turned into QB keep plays. I ran Midline 2 or 3 times and went nowhere. I ran Buck Read a couple times for a decent gain. It was pretty ugly. Some of it might have been sliders but the rest was just hideous offense. Outside of the two big plays, my best runs came on Inverted Veer keepers. I started in Empty Quads with my speedy WR in the inside slot and audibled to Gun Trips Inverted Veer. It results in pretty seamless motion into the backfield and I can run a quick play before people really catch on what is happening.

The bad news was that my HBs were god awful. I didn't get them the ball much, which is probably my fault, but when I did they were terrible. Outside runs were going nowhere. I might need to go back to some Offset Gun stuff just to get my HBs involved.

 

[JSU Zack]

Well I had an interesting game vs Ram tonight in BSCFL. Defensive battle, won 20-7. I threw 3 INT and fumbled once. I managed just 331 yards on 53 plays, running 42 times for 222 yards and a TD and throwing 5 of 11 for 109 yards and a TD. Take out a 62 yard TD pass and 64 yard TD run, I did not do much of anything. I actually ran a surprising amount of Inverted Veer in that game, mostly because it was all that was working. I think Ram had Conservative Option D on so I was stuck with a ton of keeps. My QB ran 28 times for 126 yards, my WR ran 9 times for 84 yards but 64 of those yards were that TD run.

Jet did not work until that long run, Fly Sweep did not work at all, End Arounds did not work at all. Option was hit or miss, against mostly because they all turned into QB keep plays. I ran Midline 2 or 3 times and went nowhere. I ran Buck Read a couple times for a decent gain. It was pretty ugly. Some of it might have been sliders but the rest was just hideous offense. Outside of the two big plays, my best runs came on Inverted Veer keepers. I started in Empty Quads with my speedy WR in the inside slot and audibled to Gun Trips Inverted Veer. It results in pretty seamless motion into the backfield and I can run a quick play before people really catch on what is happening.

The bad news was that my HBs were god awful. I didn't get them the ball much, which is probably my fault, but when I did they were terrible. Outside runs were going nowhere. I might need to go back to some Offset Gun stuff just to get my HBs involved.

I think if you simply add one package, pistol wing trio, you'll have enough to run downhill.

 

[TXHusker05]

I think if you simply add one package, pistol wing trio, you'll have enough to run downhill.

I was thinking about a little Pistol last night, it probably would have been helpful in that game since my 2nd half offense was pretty much Gun Ace (7 OL) QB Power/Blast. Work pretty well but obviously don't want to be doing that too often. I could always do the same thing in Pistol Ace with 7 OL, but run Power/Counter.

 

[bruin228]

How's running in the Cluster formations?

 

[JSU Zack]

How's running in the Cluster formations?

Pretty amazing. Cluster HB Wk has the backside zone read that kills man and the better mesh concepts (no automotion). Cluster strong has the QB Power play that works exceptionally well with basically four blockers on the edge. Those are two of my favorite formations hands down.

 

[TXHusker05]

Now that I've finally figured out to quirks and figured out where I went wrong, I think I'm about ready to put my Spread-I back together. Again, going to be very similar to a Malzahn/Morris offense but I'm going to tweak some things because a lot of the stuff Malzahn does just doesn't exist in the game. I'm going to use motion to create some of the double arc block plays and use various forms of triple option to replace packaged Inside Zone + Bubble plays. It isn't perfect and I don't think I've ever seen Malzahn run a true triple option play, but at least it gives me a third option off of Inside Zone.

I'm also going to trim down the offense and focus more on series play calling. Base play -> Counter -> Counter off that -> Pass. Nothing more. So a basic series would be IZ Split, IZ Lead Read, Counter, PA Read. I also think I'm going to work on re-ordering plays within the playbook itself. Up until now, I ordered my plays Run-Option-Specials-PA-Drop Back-Screens top to bottom. So it might look like:

Wing Offset Wk

Counter Y - Inside Zone Split - Power O
Speed Option - Read Option - PA Boot
Jet - Motion Option - PA Jet Wheelies
Curls - Flood - Verts
HB Slip Screen

Unfortunately, doing it that way causes me to lose out on linked plays which I think would help quite a bit, especially for PA. So instead what I'll probably do is Base Play-Counter-PA left to right. So the above formation would be IZS - Counter - PA Boot. Then Speed - Read - Power below it. It'll take adjustments in various formations but that should get me linked plays as long as they are on the same level.

As far as total formations, I'm not sure yet. It'll probably be a lot. I'm going back to just a handful of base plays and pass concepts so I'm going to need to vary my formations. Additionally, I want to use a lot of formation subs. I'm going to have a few formations where my H-Back aligns as the farthest WR and then motions in to block. Then a few formations where the farthest WR is a RB to throw screens to as well as run Jet (Normal Flex Wing for example).

Biggest issue so far is going to be audibles. I want to be able to do a lot of shifts both at the LOS and going up-tempo but not all of them will be within the same personnel group. I know at least one of the audibles I will have is Split Offset Triple Option so I can either motion my H-Back into the backfield or motion a slot into the backfield. My H-Back is a great FB so he can carry the football. I'm also going to have at least one Wing formation as an audible. I've been toying with starting in an Empty formation and audibling to a formation to run Inverted Veer. Works great, just not sure I can afford the audible.

 

[KATOblaze]

Yea the motion triples are what I decided on using as a bastardized version of the IZ+Bubble as well

 

[TXHusker05]

Yea the motion triples are what I decided on using as a bastardized version of the IZ+Bubble as well

Yeah it is the only option there is, even in formations with bubble I really want to have that third option to at least force the defense to account for that third player post-snap. I'll probably use both Split Gun triple and some motion triple and a few slot options.

I'm working on organizing my audibles so that I can audible shift into a few different formations to run triple option. Wing Offset Wk to Split Offset for example. My wing is a great FB so could run him easily. Or Wing Trips Offset Wk to Split Y Offset. Various things like that to at least have someone account for a third option on some plays.

 

[KATOblaze]

Only if there were better ways to counter aggressive option d like the give on inverted veer not being an automatic tackle

 

[TXHusker05]

Only if there were better ways to counter aggressive option d like the give on inverted veer not being an automatic tackle

I prefer people playing me with aggressive option D because I can just run inside zone read all day and hand to my HB, which is what I want to do anyway. The DE blocks himself by standing there and doing nothing, usually I get a pretty good cutback lane just underneath the DE and in front of a LB. Even if I have an exceptionally athletic QB, I want my backs running the ball so I'm all for aggressive option defense.

What I struggle with is conservative option defense. That's what I need a counter to. I encounter a lot of people going conservative option D and then putting an overload blitz behind it or manually defending the QB. That takes away a significant part of my offense. I am hoping inverted veer and some additional triple option plays help counter that, but I haven't actually been able to test it.

 

[KATOblaze]

You could make use of the speed option and run inside of the DE taking the HB or use some load option from pistol sets but you have to make use of it in your regular offense

 

[TXHusker05]

You could make use of the speed option and run inside of the DE taking the HB or use some load option from pistol sets but you have to make use of it in your regular offense

Yeah that's a big part of my problem. I want to have the answers built in, I don't want to just run one thing and then go to another formation to run something totally different. That's just a bunch of plays with no real series or system. I do run a lot of speed option, it is in the majority of my formations which helps. That's a good counter to people running aggressive option D because you can attack outside and pitch.

I really like some plays in Pistol, especially Load/Lead Option, but I think introducing a Pistol series of plays into my normal offense would just be too much. I couldn't integrate both gun and pistol together without having bad tendencies. I would probably only go Pistol to run Strong Power or PA off the Dive/ZR look. Probably not enough.

 

[JSU Zack]

I've finally got my offense down to a science. I've went back and forth over the last week or so, but it's finally done.

It's got the air raid passing I love as well as option football with Spread Option (Johnson)/Wing T influences.

My true test is against two-gap defenses, particularly the 3-3 stack. Historically, it's always been a tough D to face for option offenses. Won 26-23 with 204 rushing and 295 passing.

The best part? It's five formations:
Split Offset (base set with option runs and air raid passing)
Spread Flex HB Slot Package (jet series with flexbone style motion option, rollout passing, and air raid passing)
Twin TE Slot HB Wk (Wing T series)
Twin TE Slot (QB run and air raid passing)
Heavy (jet series, QB run game, and motioned air raid passing)

Yes, I use lots of motion and misdirection. I also discovered you can motion in the Z receiver in the Wing T package to create the "nasty" alignment most Wing T and Johnson Spread Option teams use.

 

[TXHusker05]

Well after an off-season and bye week I finally got to try things out at NIU against the CPU. After giving it some thought, I decided to start my 77 OVR JUCO JR recruit at QB over 88 and 86 OVR passers. The JUCO kid is huge and quick and I felt like I needed the run threat. He ended up throwing 16 of 26 for 180 and a TD and ran 20 times for 164 yards and 3 TD. My returning Heisman winner at HB ran 20 times as well for 143 yards and 2 TD. My other two HBs added 7 carries for 61 yards and a TD. In total, 73 plays for 548 yards. 47 rushes for 368 and 6 TD and 16 of 26 passing for 180 and a TD.

Some good and bad in the game. The good: I didn't turn the ball over which is a miracle, I am a turnover machine lately. I rarely go a game without 2-3 turnovers. I needed to hold the ball too because it was a 1 score game until late. The bad: I didn't have time to set up my formations subs the way I wanted them before I had to play so I couldn't utilize some of my best players. My best gains were off of triple option, QB Power (out of Twin TE Slot and F Twins Over) and inverted veer. Regular inside zone didn't do much, counter and power were only marginally better. Didn't help that the CPU team had the light a fire coach skill upgrade working. I was getting beat up inside.

The last minute decision to start the quick QB left me a little unprepared, I had no wildcat in the playbook and only one inverted veer play and two QB power plays. If I am going to play him, I might as well install some designed QB runs for him. I'm still going to be HB-centric considering I have a Heisman winner and 2 equally rated backups behind him but a 6'4" 223lb QB with 90 SPD, 90 AGI, 92 ACC, 74 BTK, 88 ELU, 85 SPM and 90 JKM should probably have some designed plays. He has 80 THP/84 THA compared to the 86 THP/91 THA of the 88 OVR RS SO that was going to start but I value run ability more than passing ability so long as they aren't a total disaster through the air.

Another bad: I couldn't get my fullback involved. The guy is 86 OVR with 84 SPD and devastating block skills but without formation subs it was tough to get him involved. He probably only saw the field for 15 of the 73 snaps and recorded 2 pancakes including one to spring a TD. He is a perfect H-Back, but he's a great runner as well so I need to somehow involve him more in the offense that way. I'd like to figure out a formation or two where I can line him up at HB to block for QB Power similar to what Kansas State did for Klein and does still for Waters.

A lot of kinks to work out but at least things are headed in the right direction and I'm not turning the ball over like crazy.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I prefer people playing me with aggressive option D because I can just run inside zone read all day and hand to my HB, which is what I want to do anyway. The DE blocks himself by standing there and doing nothing, usually I get a pretty good cutback lane just underneath the DE and in front of a LB. Even if I have an exceptionally athletic QB, I want my backs running the ball so I'm all for aggressive option defense.

What I struggle with is conservative option defense. That's what I need a counter to. I encounter a lot of people going conservative option D and then putting an overload blitz behind it or manually defending the QB. That takes away a significant part of my offense. I am hoping inverted veer and some additional triple option plays help counter that, but I haven't actually been able to test it.

The best user Defense against the option is utilizes the conservative setting and the user playing the force player. An opponent with good stick skills who is disciplined can pretty much neutralize the read option. I don't find too many guys like that in random online play, but I imagine that in a good Online Dynasty there would be more.

 

[JSU Zack]

The best user Defense against the option is utilizes the conservative setting and the user playing the force player. An opponent with good stick skills who is disciplined can pretty much neutralize the read option. I don't find too many guys like that in random online play, but I imagine that in a good Online Dynasty there would be more.

Your best Attack against that is to pick on the user and make him choose through play action, screens, and quick passes. Make him wrong. He will get frustrated and then back off.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Your best Attack against that is to pick on the user and make him choose through play action, screens, and quick passes. Make him wrong. He will get frustrated and then back off.

No doubt. But that is a lot easier to do against an undisciplined hit stick monkey than against somebody who knows WTF he is doing.

 

[TXHusker05]

The best user Defense against the option is utilizes the conservative setting and the user playing the force player. An opponent with good stick skills who is disciplined can pretty much neutralize the read option. I don't find too many guys like that in random online play, but I imagine that in a good Online Dynasty there would be more.

Yep, like @NavyHog. He's the absolute best at it. Conservative option D and then user control the FS in run support. Even my usual tricks to counter that stuff like jump motion (Wing Offset Wk to Wing Offset quick audible) or going to Pistol so I don't have a tell in my backfield doesn't really work. I need some other answers. I think I have a few ready, but I need to figure a few more things out at NIU. Since I decided to start that quick dude at QB some of my original plans got changed. I went in thinking the 88 OVR 73 SPD passer would start so I ripped all my QB runs out. After thinking about it, I figured the 11 OVR difference points were mostly because of awareness which doesn't matter. Skill for skill, the quick guy gave me more.

Knowing that though, I want to do some more designed QB runs. Option can only get you so far. Not just because people can use option defense settings to control who carries the ball but because users are getting better and better at gaming my reads and doing other tricks to mess with option. I almost, ALMOST, want to get back into some of the stuff I'm doing at UNC.

Formation sub Gun Normal to look like this:

WR---------------OOOOOTE--------------------
---------HB-----------------------------WR----
---------------------Q-FB----------------------

Run Jet, PA Jet, QB Power. My FB is a good enough runner I could run motion option as well. I could probably make it a smaller package within the normal offense, just don't want to get too bloated.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

Yep, like @NavyHog. He's the absolute best at it. Conservative option D and then user control the FS in run support. Even my usual tricks to counter that stuff like jump motion (Wing Offset Wk to Wing Offset quick audible) or going to Pistol so I don't have a tell in my backfield doesn't really work. I need some other answers. I think I have a few ready, but I need to figure a few more things out at NIU. Since I decided to start that quick dude at QB some of my original plans got changed. I went in thinking the 88 OVR 73 SPD passer would start so I ripped all my QB runs out. After thinking about it, I figured the 11 OVR difference points were mostly because of awareness which doesn't matter. Skill for skill, the quick guy gave me more.

Knowing that though, I want to do some more designed QB runs. Option can only get you so far. Not just because people can use option defense settings to control who carries the ball but because users are getting better and better at gaming my reads and doing other tricks to mess with option. I almost, ALMOST, want to get back into some of the stuff I'm doing at UNC.

Formation sub Gun Normal to look like this:

WR---------------OOOOOTE--------------------
---------HB-----------------------------WR----
---------------------Q-FB----------------------

Run Jet, PA Jet, QB Power. My FB is a good enough runner I could run motion option as well. I could probably make it a smaller package within the normal offense, just don't want to get too bloated.

I don't know if you have Spread Flex HB Weak in your book, but if you do, you should add the Tackle Trap Read Option to your arsenal. Whenever I run it I am hoping that the DE plays contain, because it is really well blocked.

 

[NavyHog]

@TXHusker05 Sometimes conservative option hurts me. There was a slight lag and @LEGEND hurt me big time with split slot options. Some of it was rust, but I gave a lot of big QB gainers. The best strategy is to mix up your calls on cons/agg.

 

[TXHusker05]

I don't know if you have Spread Flex HB Weak in your book, but if you do, you should add the Tackle Trap Read Option to your arsenal. Whenever I run it I am hoping that the DE plays contain, because it is really well blocked.

At the moment, I don't have any "traditional" shotgun sets except for F Twins Over and Wing Trio. I believe Wing Trio has one of the tackle trap read plays but I don't have it in my playbook. I keep looking at some of those new for 14 option plays like midline and tackle trap and counter read but I just don't think they are worth it. Most aren't blocked too well and again, relying on option is going to lead to issues for me I think.

I would absolutely kill for a QB Buck Sweep.

@TXHusker05 Sometimes conservative option hurts me. There was a slight lag and @LEGEND hurt me big time with split slot options. Some of it was rust, but I gave a lot of big QB gainers. The best strategy is to mix up your calls on cons/agg.

Yeah lag is a huge issue in games, makes user tackling on defense next to impossible and you can't play the ball in the air. I tend to mix my option coach setting based on down & distance and the type of team I am playing. I would prefer being conservative just because the type of defense I play, a lot of Cover 3 with a manual FS, it is easier to make a play on a QB on the perimeter than on a HB in traffic.

 

[TXHusker05]

I think I'm going to expand my under center stuff in both of my spread playbooks. I talked about some under center formations in my Spread I 2.0 write-up because of how Malzahn uses fire alarm quick huddle plays to run a quick crack toss or PA or other plays coming out of the huddle to disguise formation. I'm thinking about doing that some now. I never really did it my first time through because my playbook was so huge, but I have a bunch of room now that I ripped a ton of stuff out. Just put in like a handful of special formations tailored to my personnel and go from there.

It'll mostly be stuff like Ace Bunch and some Strong/Weak stuff. Ace has the good End Around/End Around Slash/PA End Around series, Strong has some good HB Sweep, FB Dive (with fake Sweep action) and PA FB as well. Plus there is GL Twins Over that has some nice stuff and a QB Sneak. Weak Normal has the Y Over Fly Sweep series. There is some good stuff. I think I need to get into at least a little under center just to provide a few different looks. My Spread-I especially suffers because despite having around 25 total formations, they are really only 4 different formations to opponents. 2x1, 2x2, 3x1, 3x2.

I've been going back over a ton of Malzahn materials and film for some inspiration and I really like what the under center stuff can do as a change-up to a typical spread.