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Major League Soccer Thread

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
Thats the first Inter and the first CF in MLS, right? Still need a Lokomotiv, AC, and heck, throw in a Borussia in there.
Does the Chicago Fire count as CF? CF97 is very common in social media. We’re going to be Legia Chicago soon though.

We have a IMFC (Montreal) and a IMCF (Miami) now. Can’t see any possible confusion there.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
IF they went full pro/rel, took off salary cap handcuffs, etc.... I actually think it'd be an incredible league and idea. But I doubt any of that is close to happening.

I wonder if this is being pushed by a TV partner (Univision or ESPN or FOX) because that's the only way I see it happening. A giant, we can't possibly refuse US TV rights deal.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
The travel is already horrendous, this just makes it worst.

There’d be too much backlash from people like the Krafts if you tried to consolidate some clubs, and you can’t combine because you are talking 50ish teams.

I have no idea how this would work. They should just focus on getting prize/TV money for the CONCACAF Champions League
 
MLS is probably just trying to snag America, Tijuana, and a couple others and leave the rest of the middling Liga MX teams to rot.

One nice thing would be that new league getting Libertadores spots, I guess. Of course, that would be even more absurd travel
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
MLS is probably just trying to snag America, Tijuana, and a couple others and leave the rest of the middling Liga MX teams to rot.

One nice thing would be that new league getting Libertadores spots, I guess. Of course, that would be even more absurd travel
Seattle in a Liberatdores match against Defensor Sporting down in Uruguay would be an interesting road trip.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I mean for some teams, the travel would be easier and some about the same. If they made geographical divisions, I don't think there'd be a huge change in travel.

If you guarantee that second division teams are making as much as current MLS teams in TV money, they'll be fine with it. TV money wise I think Liga MX is looking at how they can make the most in the US English wise and I'm guessing this is their idea.

They've been trying to make CONCACAF Champions League a priority for years and it still hasn't worked. There are tons of B/C-sides in it.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
There’s never been money in the CCL. That’s all it takes. Only incentive financially is the club World Cup, which is why you see starters in the later rounds. Find $8m for the winner and I bet you no longer see those second teams.

Libertadores spots would be nice, but they could probably get those without combining with Liga MX.

There’s no chance you can get tv money for a second division - they can’t even get money for MLS, which is why it’s packaged with the national team.

There’s value to be added for MLS by trying new things, but combining with Mexico isn’t it
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
I think Liga MX will get rid of relegation before it merges with MLS.

Liga MX relegation is a joke anyway. Got relegated? No problem, just buy the license of the promoted team and move them to your city.

Only 6 out of the 16 teams were eligible for promotion last season. The promotion playoff ended up between two teams not eligible for promotion. Instead they got prize money from the team that was supposed to be relegated, Lobos BUAP.

Only 60% of the Ascenso is eligible for promotion this year.
 
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Well they have suspended it in order to expand the league to 20, or so I heard. If anything I think a merger makes much more sense for Liga MX, they want in on the MLS roster rules and lack of Pro/Rel. I could see their proposal being something like a 48 team league, 6 divisions of 8 and two conferences or something like that, Liga MX gets 18 or 20 teams, MLS gets the rest (Vegas, PHX, Sacramento, San Diego (-1 +Detroit?) probably the obvious expansion candidates to get to 30 MLS teams) It would definitely be messy though. There's also the matter of Mexico needing to switch to Spring-Fall in order to do so.

That large of a league all under MLS rules is probably unsustainable talent-pool wise, so roster rules would need to change if there's no pro/rel. Seems like too big of a hurdle to me to me.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
Do they want in on the salary cap though?

Just looking at the all-time Liga MX table from 1943, there is a sharp drop off from 17 to 18. Just eliminate Tecos (now in the third division) and you would have a 16 team league as such:

Monterrey
UANL
Santos
Atlas
Guadalajara
Atlas
Veracruz
Leon
Atlante
Necaxa
Cruz Azul
America
UNAM
Toluca
Pachuca
Morelia

Yeah Tijuana gets kind of screwed but I guess an MLS team in San Diego might soften the blow.
 
The one suggestion on reddit I did find interesting would be a split season (but somehow split Spring-Fall) with the Clasura/second half being a 16(or whatever) team group of US, Mexico, and Canadian teams, which would provide the mixing desired without the travel being all year round. That said, I think that would still be weird, because there are plenty of Mexican cities that are closer than US to US anyways. Vancouver to Veracruz is shorter than Vancouver to Orlando, for example. It would defeat the point to have a potential San Diego team in a different league than Tijuana, so a split season probably defeats the purpose without drawing division/conference lines without regard to national borders.
 
Do they want in on the salary cap though?

Just looking at the all-time Liga MX table from 1943, there is a sharp drop off from 17 to 18. Just eliminate Tecos (now in the third division) and you would have a 16 team league as such:

Monterrey
UANL
Santos
Atlas
Guadalajara
Atlas
Veracruz
Leon
Atlante
Necaxa
Cruz Azul
America
UNAM
Toluca
Pachuca
Morelia

Yeah Tijuana gets kind of screwed but I guess an MLS team in San Diego might soften the blow.
If mixing the leagues, you could always add Tijuana, since that group + the Canadian trio makes 20, then the remaining teams can be US-based. Tijuana is by itself geographically, so it could easily fit in a "Southwest" Division of some kind, even with a SD, Vegas, and Phoenix expansion. really depends on how things are split up though, since minimizing travel and time zone changes for the Cascades teams is key. The rest of Liga MX is in the Central Zone, so if anything a 3 conference league may work out better?

It is too hard to say without knowing what the limit for league size would be, and thus what teams would expand. To me adding 16 Mexican teams means a no brainer for more Southwest U.S. teams, of which Phoenix or Vegas are probably most prepared. The only teams in Mexico that could slot into a good local group would be Tijuana with the Southwest teams, and then Santos, Tigres, and Monterrey with Dallas, Houston, and a potential Austin, San Antonio, or add KC there. The remaining ~13 teams are pretty far though, and there's no obvious configuration beyond just giving them their own division or two.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
Got some time on my hands so here goes:

48 team MLS/Liga MX merger

Western Conference

Pacific Division: Los Angeles, LA Galaxy, Portland, Sacramento, San Jose, Seattle, Tijuana, Vancouver
Midwest Division: Austin, Colorado, Dallas, Houston, Kansas City, Phoenix, Saint Louis, Salt Lake

Eastern Conference

Central Division: Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, Cincinnati, Miami, Minnesota, Nashville, Orlando
Atlantic Division: Detroit, DC United, Montreal, New England, New York, New York City, Philadelphia, Toronto

Conference MX

Division Oeste: Atlas, Guadalajara, Leon, Monterrey, Morelia, Necaxa, Santos, UANL
Division Este: America, Atlante, Cruz Azul, Pachuca, Puebla, Toluca, UNAM, Veracruz

Schedule: Division x2 (14), Conference x1 (8), Non Conference 2 games from each division (8), 30 games
Playoffs: 24 teams, Division winners plus two best non division winners get byes. H/A throughout

64 team CPL/MLS/Liga MX merger (this should be fun)

Western Conference

Pacific Division: Las Vegas, Los Angeles, LA Galaxy, Phoenix, Sacramento, San Diego, San Jose, Tijuana
Mountain Division: Calvary (Calgary), Colorado, Edmonton, Pacific (Victoria, BC), Portland, Salt Lake, Seattle, Vancouver

Conference MX

Division Oeste: Atlas, Guadalajara, Leon, Morelia, Necaxa, Queretaro, San Luis, Santos
Division Este: America, Atlante, Cruz Azul, Pachuca, Puebla, Toluca, UNAM, Veracruz

Central Conference

Southwest Division: Austin, Dallas, Houston, Juarez, Kansas City, Monterrey, Saint Louis, UANL
Midwest Division: Atlanta, Chicago, Cincinnati, Columbus, Indy Eleven, Minnesota, Nashville, Valour (Winnipeg)

Eastern Conference

Northeast Division: Detroit, Forge (Hamilton), Halifax, Montreal, New England, Ottawa, Toronto, York
Atlantic Division: Charlotte, DC United, Miami, New York, New York City, Orlando, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay

Schedule: Division x2 (14), Conference x1 (8), Non Conference 2 games from each division (12), 34 games
Playoffs: 32 teams, top 4 in each division advance, World Cup style tournament, higher seed host until the final which will be at a neutral venue. Sample Group would be 1st SW, 4th MW, 2nd NE, 3rd AT

After doing all that, I'm not sure I like this merger idea.
 
That 48 team setup is probably as good as we could hope for if they chose to keep it as one division. Maybe swap St. Louis and Minnesota for travel purposes
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
So this is interesting.

Precourt to move to Austin but Browns owner Jimmy Haslam to buy an “expansion” franchise in Columbus. Name and players possibly to stay past this year.

I still have significant reservations about a team in Cincinnati and Columbus. I don’t think they both survive.
 

wolverine318

Well-Known Member
Mod Alumni
Interesting. Columbus would keep the Cleveland and Akron fans I'd guess, but lose cincy of course. Who knows about other sort of close cities. I tend to agree though.

I wonder if it would help if they played some games at browns stadium.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
There’s never been money in the CCL. That’s all it takes. Only incentive financially is the club World Cup, which is why you see starters in the later rounds. Find $8m for the winner and I bet you no longer see those second teams.

Libertadores spots would be nice, but they could probably get those without combining with Liga MX.

There’s no chance you can get tv money for a second division - they can’t even get money for MLS, which is why it’s packaged with the national team.

There’s value to be added for MLS by trying new things, but combining with Mexico isn’t it
Where's the money coming from for CCL? The TV rights were on something this year that folded after it ended. It's been around a long time and still the money sucks.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
It’s a catch 22 - they won’t play their big players unless there’s a prize pool, but sponsorship and TV money doesn’t come in because they aren’t sure people are going to watch if they play their back ups.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I don't think teams were keen to play their best players in CCL because of roster size and quality of back ups. MLS Travel is another factor where lots of teams don't even travel their best players.

This year TFC going from arguably best MLS team ever to 14 points out of the playoffs probably killed teams going for it in CCL too. They went all in on it and were a huge flop. The (lack of) depth in MLS rosters + the moronic travel rules will keep teams from trying in CCL even if you significantly raised the prize money.

I think SuperLiga was ahead of it's time though. It'd be good to bring back and allow the best non-CCL teams go against Liga MX teams.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
MLS playoffs totally irrelevant again due to idiotic scheduling. Knockout games no one knows are happening. Fans have 2-3 days between Decision Day and the Knockout Round. Sunday matches terribly attended (again tix are on sale for 2-3 days) and all taking place during NASHNUL games.

I just don't get who the hell are the people making these decisions. If MLS had competent leadership with good ideas, they'd be way further along than with Garber & co.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
There’s got to be a week between Decision Day and the Knockout Round. I remember in 2012 DC and Chicago playing to a draw thus the Fire got to host a knockout game. You’d think they would start selling tickets for that game (on Halloween no less!) right after the final whistle but they started selling tickets on Monday for a Wednesday night game on Halloween. Attendance was under 9,000 that night.

I am absolutely not in favor for single leg rounds throughout though. You’re just going to see road teams bunkering to get to penalties or get a goal on the counter and that’s not entertaining either. I’d only like that if the away team has to win the game in 90 minutes to advance. I’d rather bring back best-of-three, first-to-five but that’s not coming back unless MLS commits itself to playing Wednesday/Thursday and Saturday/Sunday throughout the playoffs.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
MLS Cup - who’s watching?

Ebobisse is a fringe camp cupcake call up. Villafana and Garza probably will get brought in. Otherwise, it’s a pretty underwhelming representation for the USMNT.

Atlanta is arguably the most talented MLS team in history (although Giovinco, Jozy, Bradley Toronto is up there too), but I still took Portland +1.5 because they’ve bunkered in all postseason. Valeri is probably the third best player on the field but top ten in the league.

Most interested to see Ebobisse. A bit of a throwback center forward who has shown flashes of a less physical, more mobile Jozy in his game.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
Still like Ebobisse, but if ur not able to beat Jeff Larentowicz 1v1, ur ceiling may not be that high.

Had some nice touches and hold up play doe
 

NML

Well-Known Member
I thought Garber saying “we need to be a selling league” was the best thing I’ve heard from him in a while.

I think two things happened this year that should signal to the league the proper way to operate: Atlanta and Tyler Adams

From a player development standpoint, Adams is the blueprint. Sign a talented player when they are 16, let them play for your second team for 1-2 seasons and get friendlies against big clubs (remember Adams first got on the radar when he scored against Chelsea), then move to the main club and hopefully break through. A talented player like Adams can be an all star and NT member before they are 20, and now he moves onto a big club. They obviously won’t release his transfer fee and it’ll be slightly skewed since it’s Red Bull to Red Bull, but I imagine it would be around $2.5m? That pays for about a third of NYRB’s entire payroll for the season. It probably covers YEARS of their entire youth set up. That has to be what other clubs are striving for.

And then you have Atlanta, which is showing how MLS should operate in terms of buying players. MLS needs to be the middle chain, not the dead end. They buy Almiron for $8m from a South American club, he lights up the league for two seasons, and now they’ll flip him for $15m to Newcastle. Are they sitting on their money? No, they shatter the MLS transfer record an activate the $17m release clause for Pity Martínez, who’s about to hit his prime at age 25, just won the Copa Libertadores, and was capped by the Argentina National Team a couple months ago. HMMMMM I wonder how he’ll do playing against the Tim Parker’s of MLS.

If they can make those adjustments, MLS can and should become the best league outside of Europe. The struggle will be the Revolution/Dynamo/etc of the league, how they keep up. I think they’ll have to focus more on the former than the latter. But, what they have that other small market clubs all over the world don’t have, is security. So they’ll be able to try new things without finding themselves relegated.
 

kella

Smug know-it-all
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
Signing relevant foreign players is a complete shock TBH. It's been a retirement league for so long. Henry still had some mileage left on him, but all the other significant European signings have been victory laps.
 

BasinBictory

CHICKEN NUT BREAD
Signing relevant foreign players is a complete shock TBH. It's been a retirement league for so long. Henry still had some mileage left on him, but all the other significant European signings have been victory laps.
Is it the USA's favorable tax structure that is luring them?