International Soccer

[Travis7401]

Edson Buddle never struck me as having really solid skills (at the international level, anyway) but I'd also say injuries and timing prevented him from getting a real solid chance. I'd rather have us developing players like Buddle than players like Wondolowski, doe.

 

[NML]

The nightmare combo of Edson Buddle and Robbie Findley off the bench... Bob Bradley deserves a raise, or at least a hug, for winning the group with that junk as back-up options to Altidore. Not to mention, Altidore was 20 at the time. LAWD. It's not until now that I see how very little we had to work with back then.

As I get more into this US Soccer scene, I think I realize that Travis is right; currently, we simply can't produce the players that will have comparable technical skill to the best in the world. But, where I think he's wrong, is that we can't ever do it. I think Germany's current coaching and youth set-up is probably best in the world, and that's thanks to Jurgen. He's implementing that here as well. It's a long, long process but every day the US is making improvements going forward - which is why we have our deepest team and pool ever, even if it isn't necessarily high on world class quality.

2018 is a long ways away, but I could definitely see us being the dark horse, Belgium team of that World Cup. I think if we make the same jump in quality that we did from 2010 for the next few cycles, the US will be contenders moving forward. I'd say, without doubt, we have the best chance of any country to win a World Cup outside of Europe and South America, even if it's 50 years from now.

 

[Travis7401]

I agree that we need to continue to improve the skills of our national team, but I already think we are making great strides in that area. I'd say we are getting closer to the rest of the world in that department with every passing cycle, but I also see us topping out in the skill department with players like Zusi/Bradley/Dempsey level skills. They are skilled enough to play well in any league in the world, but they aren't the most skilled players in the world like Iniesta or Xavi either. I think once we get to the point where we have a team FULL of players who are skilled enough to be competitive, our athleticism will be what carries us over the top (again by 2038). I've never said we should just ignore soccer skill development and focus on athleticism, I'm just saying we need to recognize that our soccer skill development is never going to reach the level of the elite teams, so if we want to beat the elite teams we need a different edge.

I do get frustrated when I see half the national team made up of guys who don't appear to be skilled OR athletic. WTF is that thing called a Timmy Chandler doing on my field? GTFO. Give that roster spot to Landon Donovan or Eddie Johnson, at least they can both run. Timmy Chandler was bumblefucking around looking like he'd never seen a soccer ball and on top of that he looked slow as fuck.

Yedlin is my new favorite player doe, you see how fast he was? He looks like he has good soccer skills (or at least potential) too! That's the type of player that I see being the backbone of future USMNTs. Even more important than the speed, he looked really strong on the ball for a little dude. I saw some mong Azerbyjohn player run into him and he was Strong, and I say we strong then.

Altidore pissin me off too. If you are going to have such terrible first touch, I'd at least hope you would be big enough to not constantly get knocked over by some fucking cab driver. So he isn't really skilled and he isn't really big (he certainly doesn't play big). HMMMMM. Hummels gonna eat his lunch.

I also think it is worth noting that in my experience, better natural athletes tend to pick up skills faster. It is up to the coach to develop those skills, or they might become too reliant on their natural athleticism when only facing low level competition, but Utopia tries to make this a "skills or athleticism" thing too often when I have experienced the opposite when coaching. As long as you are focused on teaching your natural athletes the proper skills, they will pick those skills up faster than lesser athletes. If a player who is athletic enough to beat low level competition with shear athleticism never develops their skills, it is the coaches fault for taking the easy way.

 

[DeadMan]

Edson Buddle never struck me as having really solid skills (at the international level, anyway) but I'd also say injuries and timing prevented him from getting a real solid chance. I'd rather have us developing players like Buddle than players like Wondolowski, doe.

Yeah, I mean, I know we've discussed this before, but I think there's two problems with what you think. First, I think we do have some great athletes in our talent pool. I think you're just wishing we could see a bunch of NFL safeties play for us. Okay, we don't have the players that are 6'3" and run 4.4 40s on the team, but we have several very good athletes (in terms of speed - Yedlin, Bedoya; endurance - Jones, Bradley, Dempsey; strength - Gonzo, Altidore; etc.). And we always have. Hasn't gotten us past the quarterfinals. Look, the one position that the US has produced world class players is goalie. That's the position where athleticism is the most important, and where you can learn the technique quickly and at a later age. Our superior athletes do matter there.

But the real problem with developing athletes to play soccer is that it's just not that simple. To be even a CONCACAF quality player, you have to have played soccer all of your life. It's not just as simple as give some Div II CBs soccer cleats after high school. You literally need to play soccer from probably 4-5 years old just to be a player on an average CONCACAF team. Now think about when you figure out who the best athletes are. 12 years old at the earliest, maybe? Well, if you hand that guy soccer cleats, he's already 8 years behind the rest of the world. There's no amount of practice, games, whatever that will overcome that.

So anyways, I do like where we're headed now. I'm not just sure about this current iteration of the US.

 

[NML]

ur wrong about Jozy - he had some nice hold-up play. He's got the euro-flopping now, doe...

There's a reason Yedlin and Green are in camp, and it's because they've got the combination of athleticism and potential technical ability. JAB falls into this group as well. 6'4" leftie with the best touch of our backline?

Chandler was good at one point - not with us, but in Germany - but I honestly haven't seen him play in a year or so (before last night), so I can't really comment as to where he is now. Looked like the worst player on the field yesterday. But, now that you've called him out, I have no doubt that he'll become our starting left back and score the game winner against Ghana.

 

[Travis7401]

ur wrong about Jozy - he had some nice hold-up play. He's got the euro-flopping now, doe...

There's a reason Yedlin and Green are in camp, and it's because they've got the combination of athleticism and potential technical ability. JAB falls into this group as well. 6'4" leftie with the best touch of our backline?

Chandler was good at one point - not with us, but in Germany - but I honestly haven't seen him play in a year or so (before last night), so I can't really comment as to where he is now. Looked like the worst player on the field yesterday. But, now that you've called him out, I have no doubt that he'll become our starting left back and score the game winner against Ghana.

I saw Jozy hold the ball up well about 25% of the time. 50% of the time he took a horrible first touch and turned the ball over and the other 25% of the time he flopped. HMMMM

Agree about the athleticism of the young players, and it has me hopeful for the future. I was more bummed with the middle age group of ours. The old guys (Eddie Johnson, Beasley, Donovan) were great athletes but most of the dudes in their mid 20s just seem kind of "meh" to me. I'm fine with the players who are skilled enough to provide that aspect to the team, but the rest of them can just gtfo and make way for Yedlin.

 

[Bmack]

I would honestly guess that Landon Donovan runs a 4.5-4.6 40 yard dash in his prime and is probably slower than Utopia's own Connor Shaw. Barry Sanders ran a sub 4.4 which is pretty amazing for someone with his build.

As a fifteen year old Wilber Marshall was 6-2 218 with a 4.6 40. He could stand flat footed under the basket with a basketball in both hands and dunk both.

i will infect every thread with this before I'm done.

 

[DeadMan]

As a fifteen year old Wilber Marshall was 6-2 218 with a 4.6 40. He could stand flat footed under the basket with a basketball in both hands and dunk both.

i will infect every thread with this before I'm done.

So you're basically a more benign version of G8R? I can handle that.

 

[Travis7401]

Yeah, I mean, I know we've discussed this before, but I think there's two problems with what you think. First, I think we do have some great athletes in our talent pool. I think you're just wishing we could see a bunch of NFL safeties play for us. Okay, we don't have the players that are 6'3" and run 4.4 40s on the team, but we have several very good athletes (in terms of speed - Yedlin, Bedoya; endurance - Jones, Bradley, Dempsey; strength - Gonzo, Altidore; etc.). And we always have. Hasn't gotten us past the quarterfinals. Look, the one position that the US has produced world class players is goalie. That's the position where athleticism is the most important, and where you can learn the technique quickly and at a later age. Our superior athletes do matter there.

But the real problem with developing athletes to play soccer is that it's just not that simple. To be even a CONCACAF quality player, you have to have played soccer all of your life. It's not just as simple as give some Div II CBs soccer cleats after high school. You literally need to play soccer from probably 4-5 years old just to be a player on an average CONCACAF team. Now think about when you figure out who the best athletes are. 12 years old at the earliest, maybe? Well, if you hand that guy soccer cleats, he's already 8 years behind the rest of the world. There's no amount of practice, games, whatever that will overcome that.

So anyways, I do like where we're headed now. I'm not just sure about this current iteration of the US.

You mongs keep mis-attributing that argument to me. I'm not saying (other than in jest) that we turn athletes from other sports into soccer players when they are already college aged. I'm saying that there is a lack of athleticism among soccer players that is troubling when you compare it to all the others sports in our country. We typically have the most athletic players in the world in whatever sport we compete in due to our delightful huge and multi-ethnic pool of athletes.

I'm not saying that we need to turn DI level football players into soccer players, I'm saying it is telling that none (or very few) of our soccer players are athletic enough to make a DI football team. It is an entirely different argument.

I also disagree that you NEED to be born with a soccer ball in ur hands feets to become a great soccer player, because kids don't start REALLY playing sports until they are like 10 or 11 anyway (later for some kids) because of limitations of physical development. A great natural athlete can certainly pick up any sport in the world at age 12 and not be "too far behind" to catch up. GTFO with that nonsense. If you think otherwise, you've never seen 8 year olds play sports. Even people who grow up to be world class athletes can look borderline retarded in 3rd grade because 3rd graders are basically just tiny little drunk people. Besides, the "we don't start them early enough" argument is another strawman anyway because youth soccer participation isn't our problem. Most kids in this country do start with soccer as their first sport, before leaving to play something else. We don't need to identify good athletes after the fact and then convert them to soccer, we need to identify them before they LEAVE soccer. Kobe Bryant and Andrew Luck, as the commercials lead me to believe, both grew up playing soccer and loved it. Why did soccer let them get away?

 

[fsuprime]

All this talk about speed and being strong getting me all hot and bothered for fsu 2014.

 

[Travis7401]

To me, American soccer fans are typically unathletic fragile kids like deadmong who stuck with the sport because they were too little/slow to play something else, so they push their preconceived notions of "back in my day" type thinking about the sport. They are like segregation era sports fans talking about how the opaques can't make bounce passes and layups and practice fundamentals well enough to beat out the hard working plucky white dudes. Then I turn on the TV and watch guys like Lukaku/Gareth Bale/Ronaldo/Toure/Ramos/Di Maria just dominating the fuck out of less athletic players and I wonder if I'm even watching the same sport?

You wanna know what makes me hard? Watching a freak athlete just flat out run past a defender and then have the physical strength to shrug him off like a little babby fly before finishing calmly with a nice display of skill. The skill is still important, certainly, but the athleticism puts you in the position to make the skill matter.

fap fap fap fap fap.

Right now we have guys who are "athletic" but they aren't the best athlete in the world at their position either. By 2038 we are going to have 5-6 dudes on the USMNT who have the size/power/speed combination of a Bale and you all gonna admit defeat.

 

[OU11]

Travis, Bale's game is predicated on 75% skill and only 25% athleticism, it just isn't that important.

 

[Wooly]

When is China going to get good at soccer? Given it's prestige on the world stage, and China's obsession with image, you would think they would put all their sports efforts into developing soccer players. They may not have a very athletic gene pool, but they do have 1.3 Billion people or some reeediculous number. There has to be a few Yao Mings outliers in that giant pool. All they have to to is force kids to play soccer, pick out the best ones, steal them from their parents and put them into state run soccer indoctrination camps, and voila, you have a good national team.


America should start a soccer green card system for Latin America. We bring over the most promising players from Mexico, Central America, and South America, then give them green cards and/or citizenship in return for service on the national team. We accept promising soccer players and their families when they are young and help them immigrate. Why not, the Carribean single handedly supplies middle infielders for MLB.

 

[Wooly]

To me, American soccer fans are typically unathletic fragile kids like deadmong who stuck with the sport because they were too little/slow to play something else, so they push their preconceived notions of "back in my day" type thinking about the sport. They are like segregation era sports fans talking about how the opaques can't make bounce passes and layups and practice fundamentals well enough to beat out the hard working plucky white dudes. Then I turn on the TV and watch guys like Lukaku/Gareth Bale/Ronaldo/Toure/Ramos/Di Maria just dominating the fuck out of less athletic players and I wonder if I'm even watching the same sport?

You wanna know what makes me hard? Watching a freak athlete just flat out run past a defender and then have the physical strength to shrug him off like a little babby fly before finishing calmly with a nice display of skill. The skill is still important, certainly, but the athleticism puts you in the position to make the skill matter.

fap fap fap fap fap.

By 2038 we are going to have 5-6 dudes on the USMNT who have the size/power/speed combination of Bale and you all gonna admit defeat.

As I said a few posts ago, America has 300+ million people, tons of resources and leisure time, a huge sports culture, and a good gene pool for athleticism. We can produce a Ronaldo. Maybe not every year, but at least once a decade. Hell, we have players like him now, just in other sports.

 

[Yankee151]

All of China's athletes are in Table Tennis or Gymnastics

 

[OU11]

As I said a few posts ago, America has 300+ million people, tons of resources and leisure time, a huge sports culture, and a good gene pool for athleticism. We can produce a Ronaldo. Maybe not every year, but at least once a decade. Hell, we have players like him now, just in other sports.

There just isn't enough of a focus on soccer to get a kid to stick with it from birth and have elite trainers and have elite athleticism. If he is truly elite, he'll try to play another sport until he can't anymore. We could produce Ronaldos if soccer replaced the NFL in terms of money/fame

 

[Wooly]

All of China's athletes are in Table Tennis or Gymnastics

They just have to adapt that eye hand coordination to their feet, then watch them pass that ball around 90 miles a minute, even Spain will be in awe.

 

[ZeekLTK]

I also disagree that you NEED to be born with a soccer ball in ur hands feets to become a great soccer player, because kids don't start REALLY playing sports until they are like 10 or 11 anyway (later for some kids) because of limitations of physical development. A great natural athlete can certainly pick up any sport in the world at age 12 and not be "too far behind" to catch up. GTFO with that nonsense. If you think otherwise, you've never seen 8 year olds play sports. Even people who grow up to be world class athletes can look borderline retarded in 3rd grade because 3rd graders are basically just tiny little drunk people. Besides, the "we don't start them early enough" argument is another strawman anyway because youth soccer participation isn't our problem. Most kids in this country do start with soccer as their first sport, before leaving to play something else. We don't need to identify good athletes after the fact and then convert them to soccer, we need to identify them before they LEAVE soccer. Kobe Bryant and Andrew Luck, as the commercials lead me to believe, both grew up playing soccer and loved it. Why did soccer let them get away?

Because it's a lot harder to make it big in soccer. Kobe Bryant sticks with soccer and MAYBE turns out to be as good as Henry, or maybe he only turns out to be as good as Ricardo Fuller (a good but not great CONCACAF striker of similar stature) and just piddles around playing for teams like Crystal Palace and Stoke City his whole career because there are too many other stars to make it on any of the big teams.

Because in soccer, you don't just compete with other similar sized guys for roster spots, you have to compete with all kinds of guys for roster spots. Ibrahimovic, Eto'o, Drogba, Messi, Crouch are all built differently and all play the same position. In a sport like basketball or football, there are only a handful of people who have the body-type to be able to play a certain position. You want to be a power forward in the NBA? You want to be a RB in the NFL? Only a very small portion of the population is even capable of playing those positions in those leagues just because of the way they are built, so if you have the body-type for it, you've got a good chance of making it in those leagues. You want to play soccer? Literally anyone in the world could theoretically challenge you for your position, it's a lot harder to earn a spot on the kind of roster that would pay you NBA/NFL money. The people with those body-types gravitate toward the other sports because it is "easier" to make it big there.

 

[Orlando]

I don't get why Travis has to repeat himself in every soccer thread. We need to improve technical skill, while also trying to attract elite athletes to the sport. This needs to be done at a very young age. Until American kids want to grow up and be Ronaldo instead of Lujaun or ADP, AND their parents want them to play the soccer, we will be an average team. There is no draw to soccer at this point. That needs to be fixed and then work on development since youth soccer is awful.

 

[Travis7401]

So NML gonna go kick a soccer ball through Muck City, Florida and recruit some kids to play for the next 4th grade team he coaches. I bet they don't even have youth soccer in Belle Glade, lol.

 

[chibob]

Zeek makes a brilliant point.

And also @OU11 , I quite like you but you are constantly missing the point. Bale is an elite athlete, but do you not grasp the how unbelievably skilful Bale has to be to keep control of that ball at that speed, he makes about four touches after his first one in order to get that ball into the position he needs it to be.

This isn't the NFL, he doesn't just have to hold onto the ball and let his legs do all the rest. So yes it is 75% skill and 25% athleticism.

Yes Travis is right if you can produce a team of super athletes with superior technical skills then youre going to have a great team, but youre pretty much asking for a team of Ronaldos at every position. It isn't going to happen.

Ronnie was technically gifted and then he worked on his athleticism to get where he is now. He was a bean pole when he first joined UTD.

 

[fsuprime]

So NML gonna go kick a soccer ball through Muck City, Florida and recruit some kids to play for the next 4th grade team he coaches. I bet they don't even have youth soccer in Belle Glade, lol.

Keep your gay out of muck city.

California probably better they don't care

 

[Orlando]

It can happen in 'murrica, an incredibly small amount of American athletes care about soccer doe. It's the least popular major sport by far because their is no money in it domestically.

 

[Travis7401]

Chi-bob, serious question here. How much of your soccer success was the ability to simply run past slow white Engerland goobers playing defense? I'd think that you of all people would recognize the fact that, all skills being equal, being faster makes you a better player. Wasn't speed ur niche?

 

[Yankee151]

One man's least popular major sport is another man's most popular minor sport

 

[chibob]

Yeh if all skills are equal then yes the faster player has the edge.

And yes, in my personal circumstances I have always benefited from my low centre of gravity and pace. But if I was a more technically gifted player, I would have probably got a lot further. And I mean much further, the ability to read a game, position ones self etc. things that sometimes go under-appreciated, they all matter.

 

[Karl Hungus]

Chi-bob, serious question here. How much of your soccer success was the ability to simply run past slow white Engerland goobers playing defense? I'd think that you of all people would recognize the fact that, all skills being equal, being faster makes you a better player. Wasn't speed ur niche?

Even in defending skill (and knowledge) is more important than you'd think. In one of my leagues there are a couple guys in their early 40's who played D1 soccer and are amazing defenders still, mostly because of their positioning at this point. They know exactly where to be to pick out the longer passes and can see so many offensive moves beginning that they can snuff them out simply by being in the right place. Combine them with a younger guy who is still fast and other teams are hard-pressed to create anything.

 

[Orlando]

Rec league comparisons FTW. Can't wait for more of Travis' intramural soccer stories

 

[adchester]

We've had this exact argument like 10 times already. GJGE Chicago Robert.

 

[chibob]

Good contribution.

 

[Travis7401]

Yeh if all skills are equal then yes the faster player has the edge.

And yes, in my personal circumstances I have always benefited from my low centre of gravity and pace. But if I was a more technically gifted player, I would have probably got a lot further. And I mean much further, the ability to read a game, position ones self etc. things that sometimes go under-appreciated, they all matter.

So hear me out here (no trolling/trog trapping).

I think that US players, due to the role soccer development plays in our country, will reach a top end of skill development that will never be able able to match Spain/England/Germany/Brazil/etc. At best we will have players who are skilled enough to be good/solid players in top leagues (Bradley, Dempsey), but I honestly don't think we'll have a team full of very top end skilled players like Spain. Given that fact, we need to look for the winning edge in athleticism.

So I'm assuming our skill level is essentially capped at a certain level, we'd benefit as a nation from having faster and more athletic players with those skills, because all skills being equal, the faster/more athletic player has the edge. As a nation, we have the ability to find plenty of athletes and get them up to that "solid" skill level.

 

[goblue96]

We've had this exact argument like 10 times already. GJGE Chicago Robert.

It's nUtopia. We argue the same shit over and over. It's what we do best beside change servers every year.

 

[ZeekLTK]

If only Paulo Wanchope had been born about a thousand miles north, we could have tested this theory out 15 years ago to know for sure.

 

[Travis7401]

Even in defending skill (and knowledge) is more important than you'd think. In one of my leagues there are a couple guys in their early 40's who played D1 soccer and are amazing defenders still, mostly because of their positioning at this point. They know exactly where to be to pick out the longer passes and can see so many offensive moves beginning that they can snuff them out simply by being in the right place. Combine them with a younger guy who is still fast and other teams are hard-pressed to create anything.

Would those players be better if they were faster? Yep. Again, this isn't an either/or argument.

 

[OU11]

Zeek makes a brilliant point.

And also @OU11 , I quite like you but you are constantly missing the point. Bale is an elite athlete, but do you not grasp the how unbelievably skilful Bale has to be to keep control of that ball at that speed, he makes about four touches after his first one in order to get that ball into the position he needs it to be.

This isn't the NFL, he doesn't just have to hold onto the ball and let his legs do all the rest. So yes it is 75% skill and 25% athleticism.

Yes Travis is right if you can produce a team of super athletes with superior technical skills then youre going to have a great team, but youre pretty much asking for a team of Ronaldos at every position. It isn't going to happen.

Ronnie was technically gifted and then he worked on his athleticism to get where he is now. He was a bean pole when he first joined UTD.

Awesome you still miss the point, we're back hone.

Nobody is asking for Ronaldos. You aren't understanding anything that is being said, we have better athletes in America than what is being displayed on the team. What is being argued is that if you take our current skill level (that is continually getting better) and couple that with getting our better athletes into soccer, we will be better. Nobody is saying that skill should be neglected, you are still trying to argue that being a better athlete makes you worse at soccer if skill is held equal. The better athlete is worse, I have no idea why you think that but to argue against Travis' point that is what you have to do. Congratulations.

 

[OU11]

Would those players be better if they were faster? Yep. Again, this isn't an either/or argument.

I really cannot comprehend why these soccer folks are devoid of logic. It's like arguing with politicians in here where they just divert and make up points for you.

 

[chibob]

Travis ill write up a proper response when I get back from work. I tried to write something but I keep getting interrupted.

 

[Karl Hungus]

Rec league comparisons FTW. Can't wait for more of Travis' intramural soccer stories

This one is pretty serious, but yeah, still a rec league. The one we go straight from games to the bar, on the other hand...

 

[OU11]

Travis ill write up a proper response when I get back from work. I tried to write something but I keep getting interrupted.

Here is what you need to argue against so your proper response doesn't completely miss the point again.

You have two players, both of the same skill. One is an above average athlete, and one is a below average athlete. Remember same skill level, who would you rather add to your team? If you say the more athletic one, welcome to our side. I'd love to hear the argument for the below average athlete if you want to try though.

 

[Travis7401]

I think the problem is that for a lot of years US Soccer just picked fast kids and didn't develop their soccer skills well enough. The fast kids ran away from the lower level competition without ever developing their skills. So our Soccer fans on Utopia have a bunch of examples of athletic but poorly skilled players who didn't do well on the national stage. That doesn't mean we should abandon the athletes and focus on the players who are already skilled, as if skills and athleticism were inversely correlated. It means we need to do a better job of coaching our great athletes instead of failing them. I agree with Utopians that pure athleticism is NOT enough to make a great soccer player at the international level. That isn't the point I'm trying to make.

In my coaching experience it is tempting to just let a kid rely on their natural ability to carry them because they are good enough to dominate low level competition with their raw talent. It is tempting to let that kid be naturally decent and then spend all the rest of your time coaching up the slow kids so that they aren't complete liabilities. A GOOD coach, however, will recognize that those naturally athletic kids will often learn the skills at a FASTER rate than the less athletic kids. So if you give them the coaching attention they need, you'll soon have a kid who is more athletic AND more skilled.

 

[Orlando]

Travis is finally understanding why our youth system is terrible. Murricans care too much about winning. Developing skill doesn't matter.

 

[chibob]

@OU11 yeh we get this. yes if you have a guy who is a great technical player but an average athlete and you put him up against a similar great technical player with great athleticism as well. Then yes the latter is going to be better.

But the point youre missing is that in a lot of cases it is an either or thing. There are only a handful of players who are both world class athletes and also world class technical players - these guys are the best of the best. Well call him Bale.

But there are also a lot of great technical players who are average athletes but they are still in the upper echelons of the sport. Well call him Iniesta.

And then you have the third type of guy, the average technical player, who is strong and rapid. And they aren't even close to being regarded as one of the best players. Well call him Gevinho.

 

[NML]

The strong black fellow won't answer my calls though wat do?

 

[NML]

And don't say his mom, dat bitch told me he'd be at tryouts

 

[OU11]

@OU11 yeh we get this. yes if you have a guy who is a great technical player but an average athlete and you put him up against a similar great technical player with great athleticism as well. Then yes the latter is going to be better.

But the point youre missing is that in a lot of cases it is an either or thing. There are only a handful of players who are both world class athletes and also world class technical players - these guys are the best of the best. Well call him Bale.

But there are also a lot of great technical players who are average athletes but they are still in the upper echelons of the sport. Well call him Iniesta.

And then you have the third type of guy, the average technical player, who is strong and rapid. And they aren't even close to being regarded as one of the best players. Well call him Gevinho.

Yes, but if we attract more athletes into our youth system where development is the focus, we will have better players as a result. I understand you don't need to be an elite athlete if you have elite technical ability, but name one elite technical player from the US. Name just one. Thanks, now that you've drawn a blank what is our strength as a country? Athletes. Try to draw better athletes into soccer at a younger age with a focus on developing skills and it will benefit the team.

 

[Orlando]

Chi-bob still not getting that we will prob never develop world class skill players. Travis' point is develop the elite athletes we have into soccer players. Guys with Bradley/Dempseys skill level.

 

[chibob]

My computer at work wont let me quote but yes OU11 I addressed that already.

 

[chibob]

No reason why you cant develop technical players, I mean that's a trainable skill. Speed and strength isn't always trainable, some people will just not get faster, and or be able to get big enough to get stronger.

Ball skills, passing, marking, movement, mentality, positioning, these are all teachable.

If youre flat out saying that because Soccer isn't a big enough sport to even warrant the training these skills then well yeh youre kinda fucked.

 

[OU11]

My computer at work wont let me quote but yes OU11 I addressed that already.

Right, we aren't talking about soccer as a whole. We are talking about US soccer specifically. So your Iniesta and Xavi comparisons are shit because we won't have players of that caliber technically. We have Bale athletes who run track. Grab the Bales at a young age and develop them. After a while you might get 2-3 great athletes with average technical ability instead of average athletes with average technical ability.

You are arguing about soccer as a whole, while we are tom bout our national team.

 

[OU11]

No reason why you cant develop technical players, I mean that's a trainable skill. Speed and strength isn't always trainable, some people will just not get faster, and or be able to get big enough to get stronger.

Ball skills, passing, marking, movement, mentality, positioning, these are all teachable.

If youre flat out saying that because Soccer isn't a big enough sport to even warrant the training these skills then well yeh youre kinda fucked.

We are reverse trapped

I've never seen a post prove the opponent's argument so thoroughly, this is obviously a trap.