chibob
Well-Known Member
Yes. Clearly.
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International Soccer
- Thread starter Yankee151
- Start date
Yes. Clearly.
chibob
Well-Known Member
Yeh well no shit if that was the case, but he keeps comparing soccer players to other american sports players; making out that they are somehow ridiculously superior just because in most cases they are larger, or in his belief quicker.
You can't compare them. The sports are too different, and the importance of certain skill sets are too important. So its just the same moot point he keeps rehashing.
Well the crux of his argument is that getting our better athletes to play soccer will make us better. Milo NML and yankee all argue that being more athletic makes you a worse soccer player which is why he 'traps' you lot. You all just start going off about technical ability.
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
Kinda easy when everyone on here is drunk, drinking or hungover.
chibob
Well-Known Member
The thing is, we dont know if your 'better' athletes would be any good at soccer for one, and also who is to say that Barry Saunders is a better athlete than Landon Donovan? I mean these are guys essentially at the end of the athletic development, who knows how each wouldve turned out if they chosen soccer over football or whatever.
I take exception to the fact that none of your soccer players are considered in the same category as of your better athletes.
Well I'll just say that barry was a superior athlete.
What everybody knows here is that soccer is pretty low on the list for America's youth unless you count rich white kids who cant play anything else, number one for them
Getting more quality athletes involved in soccer at an early age WILL make the US better at soccer, overall. It increases the size of the talent pool. But for the umpteenth time, a lack of athleticism is not what holds the US team back. It's lack of technical ability. If every player on the US team got just a little more athletic (bigger, stronger, faster, or whatever else), would it help the team? Sure. But not nearly as much as every US player getting just a little better at dribbling, passing, and shooting.
Arguing that certain soccer players aren't great athletes because they don't look like elite athletes in other sports is moronic. Michael Essien was built like an NFL tailback, and knee injuries robbed the guy of his prime. Multiple team doctors said his leg muscles were essentially too big, and with the constant running and cutting that soccer requires, those muscles put too much torque on his knees, and shredded them.
Look at Eden Hazard. Arguably the most dangerous player with the ball his feet in the entire Premier League. Dude has a big ass and looks borderline skinny fat (by professional athlete standards). There's no real upper body muscle tone. Hell, he's sort of built like a woman; big hips and narrow shoulders. I'd bet the US team has a good number of players who are all bigger/faster/stronger than he is. But not one with such quick feet and close control of the ball.
chibob
Well-Known Member
This whole discussion just gets redundant after a point.
At the end of the day its just not about a team of the quickest and the strongest, technical ability always come out as the most important factor in 9 out of 10 players in every sport.
I think if you compare the NFL and college football, players who cant make the grade to step it up to the NFL arent neccesarily slower or weaker, its usually because theyre skills are too raw, and theyve got so far on pure athleticism rather than actual technical skill. I mean, youre not going to say Peyton Manning is a superior athlete are you?
Would it make us better? Yes. A lot better? No.
We're not suffering from some huge athleticism gap as it stands. I think our 'athletes' can more than hold their own against the Spain, Germany, Brazil, and Portugal's of the world. Our soccer players can't.
That's where we can start to close the gap. It won't happen immediately. But what's the alternative? Ignore it, and just focus on switching little kids in the hood from football and basketball over to soccer? Good plan.
Neither are Tom Brady or Drew Brees. Hell, Brees can't throw it more than 15 yards, amirite? Certainly not the quickness or the rocket arm of a Cam Newton or Kaep.
Bitch we need to outathlete if we cant out technical. You said we can be better if we had better athletes which means travis and i are right. BOOOOOOM
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
Well isnt that the problem is in every hood and favela in the world they play futbol not BBall or football.
chibob
Well-Known Member
The US is technically probably 10 years behind England who are ten years behind Spain.
In England now we have players like Barkley, Wilshere, Ramsey (yes I know hes Welsh) and arguably Lallana who are technically gifted to the extent of Spanish players at moving the ball around. If you look at the old guard of English midfielders, your Gerrards, Parkers, and Lampards, these guys are horrendous technically (the only old guard exception being Paul Scholes who has been compared with the likes of Xavi and Iniesta) in comparison to the Spanish. But obviously the young Spanish guys are still years ahead but the gulf isnt as big as it was. So its not like the US cant catch up, its all about closing the gap slightly each generation of players.
The best central midfielder you guys produced was probably Stuart Holden, shame about his legs.
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
Getoff the Spanish dick dude. They are a bunch flopping pussies. They aren't winning this World Cup. I think I remember reading a couple years ago that only ARG, BRA and URU have won Cups in this hemisphere.
chibob
Well-Known Member
No team in the world are as good as Spain.
Brazil is only a favorite because theyre the hosts, their team is probably one of the weakest theyve taken to a WC in a while.
And yes the hemisphere thing is correct, but what does that even matter.
That mightve meant something back in the 1980s when players from northern hemisphere countries had only been to the seaside for a holiday.
Brazil is only a favorite because theyre the hosts, their team is probably one of the weakest theyve taken to a WC in a while.
And yes the hemisphere thing is correct, but what does that even matter.
That mightve meant something back in the 1980s when players from northern hemisphere countries had only been to the seaside for a holiday.
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
I would argue that Germany is as good maybe better
ZeekLTK
Well-Known Member
But only Spain and Brazil have ever won on different continents than their own.
chibob
Well-Known Member
Germany can potentially be as good. This tournament will tell.
Orangebird
Premier League Champs
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
Our athletes shouldn't just "hold their own," they should fucking excel because that's what we have as a strength as a country. I really disagree about how good our athletes are doe, I think you'll watch Germany, Portugal, and Ghanna all run circles around the US players. I think JK left 2 of the best athletes at home (GAM and Donovan). I think our best players on this team are actually better technicians than they are athletes at the moment anyway. Dempsey and Bradley aren't world class athletes but they are skilled enough to hold their own. The problem is we'll try to line Bradley and Dempsey up against the best in the world and their skills won't compare. I just don't see us producing better technical players than Dempsey and Bradley, so we have to make up that ground in other ares. We are never going to beat any European or any South American team if we try to play the same game as them. This is like trying to line up against Peyton Manning or Tom Brady and win a shoot out when your QB is David Carr.
I mean I'm not really trolling here, America's path to success is to get better athletes into our programs early and get the skills up to the level of our best current players. In a couple of decades we'll have players who are as skilled as Dempsey and Bradley, but they'll also be world class athletes and they'll run circles around our competition and we'll win the world cup. I
would think that Chicago Robert was the one trolling here, as he asked how I know Barry Sanders is a better athlete than Landon Donovan. Landon Donovan and Beasley were the "athletes" on our 2002 World cup team and they are now in their 30s and still arguably the best athletes on (or not on) the world cup team this go around. FUUUU. The fact that we have no real measurable for Landon Donovan to even compare with Barry Sanders is also worth noting, because it shows how far behind soccer is in athletic development because there aren't even measurable for players. If I was a soccer scout I'd have all soccer players I was looking into running a 10k (full game stamina), a mile (intermediate stamina) 40 yard dash (spring speed - certainly more applicable in soccer than football, vertical jump, F3cone and shuttle drills.
FWIW, I do think England should embrace the technical aspect and that's how they can always be competitive even though they have a small player pool. The nation loves soccer and they'll be able to compete technically with anyone if that is what they make a priority. I simply don't think that is the case in the US. What you should focus on all depends on what your strengths are as a nation. Spain finally won a world cup and went on this amazing international run by tailoring their play style to fit the types of players they produce. They did it by embracing possession soccer and playing to their national strength of tiny little house elves. Why would we try to beat them at that game? We should just be parking the bus with 9 super fast/strong/high work rate dudes playing defense to just maul them and knock them off their rhythm and putting a sub 10.5 second 100m guy out there at striker to run on a counter when fucking Pique and Ramos push too far forward. You think those guys are catching Randy Moss striker? Nah, B.
Will the US ever have a player with the technical ability of a Xavi/Iniesta? I really don't think we can based on our culture and how we play the sport. Can we ever have a 6'2 striker with solid skills who can jump and run a sub 11s 100m? I think we can.
I mean I'm not really trolling here, America's path to success is to get better athletes into our programs early and get the skills up to the level of our best current players. In a couple of decades we'll have players who are as skilled as Dempsey and Bradley, but they'll also be world class athletes and they'll run circles around our competition and we'll win the world cup. I
would think that Chicago Robert was the one trolling here, as he asked how I know Barry Sanders is a better athlete than Landon Donovan. Landon Donovan and Beasley were the "athletes" on our 2002 World cup team and they are now in their 30s and still arguably the best athletes on (or not on) the world cup team this go around. FUUUU. The fact that we have no real measurable for Landon Donovan to even compare with Barry Sanders is also worth noting, because it shows how far behind soccer is in athletic development because there aren't even measurable for players. If I was a soccer scout I'd have all soccer players I was looking into running a 10k (full game stamina), a mile (intermediate stamina) 40 yard dash (spring speed - certainly more applicable in soccer than football, vertical jump, F3cone and shuttle drills.
FWIW, I do think England should embrace the technical aspect and that's how they can always be competitive even though they have a small player pool. The nation loves soccer and they'll be able to compete technically with anyone if that is what they make a priority. I simply don't think that is the case in the US. What you should focus on all depends on what your strengths are as a nation. Spain finally won a world cup and went on this amazing international run by tailoring their play style to fit the types of players they produce. They did it by embracing possession soccer and playing to their national strength of tiny little house elves. Why would we try to beat them at that game? We should just be parking the bus with 9 super fast/strong/high work rate dudes playing defense to just maul them and knock them off their rhythm and putting a sub 10.5 second 100m guy out there at striker to run on a counter when fucking Pique and Ramos push too far forward. You think those guys are catching Randy Moss striker? Nah, B.
Will the US ever have a player with the technical ability of a Xavi/Iniesta? I really don't think we can based on our culture and how we play the sport. Can we ever have a 6'2 striker with solid skills who can jump and run a sub 11s 100m? I think we can.
Chase
Well-Known Member
Well if the NBA Finals is a short series, we can just send Lebron to Brazil to play striker.
I would honestly guess that Landon Donovan runs a 4.5-4.6 40 yard dash in his prime and is probably slower than Utopia's own Connor Shaw. Barry Sanders ran a sub 4.4 which is pretty amazing for someone with his build.
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
CM dude
Wooly
Well-Known Member
I think this is probably right on, but it also makes me sad. I want to see the US play an offensive style, where goal scoring is fun to watch, not just a counter-attack with a fast dude. I want to see a Messi, David Villa, Christiano Ranaldo, Forlan, etc kind of scorer for the US too. Can we really not produce one? I know we have a lot of big athletic types in America, that is something we excel at developing, but why can't one of them develop into a Ronaldo and have the size and skill, so it would be fun to watch them. I know soccer is sport number 3 here in the US, but damn we have 300 million people, with tons of resources and leisure time, and we have a sports nut culture.
Yeah, you can win by emphasizing big athletic defense and then some speed for a counter-attack, but it's just not very fun to watch. I will watch Spain any day of the week though, because they are fun to watch, they make skillful shots on goal. I don't care for long build ups, but I do like to see quality shots on goal, and they have that in spades. Just the fact that they take the corner kick short a lot tells you something about them (not just that they are little runts either). Please America, find some way to produce quality goal scorers so I don't have to watch Jozy Altidore style strikers in the future, or endless crosses for looking for headers crap either.
Spain are boring to watch to me. They piddle around too much without generating scoring opportunities and win a lot of 1-0 games.
fonzilla
Well-Known Member
Those guys are Drogba lite
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I don't care for the build up crap, but their forwards and strikers look like they have actually have skill when they do shoot on goal. I would watch David Villa shoot any day over any American I have seen in the past decade...although I admittedly don't know the US team really well. Who do we have of that skill level?
What kind of players do you like to watch?
Your point is nonsense. If you argue with travis you are saying that being a better athlete makes you a worse soccer player. That keeping skill equal, the worse you are athletically the better you are at soccer.
Keep fuckin that chicken robert
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
You mean Edson Buddle?