bruin
Well-Known Member
NATIONAL SIGNING DAY CHAMPS DOUGH
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Coaches' Hot Seat/ Carousel 2015-16
- Thread starter Rutgers Mike
- Start date
NATIONAL SIGNING DAY CHAMPS DOUGH
Wooly
Well-Known Member
I don't know if he will stick exactly with with the Flexbone option or not, but I have my doubts he cans stray from it too far. I have my doubts he can be hands off with the offense and turn it over to an OC. Most coaches can't do that, even good ones, and especially not coaches whose background is coaching on offense. It's the same way with defensive coaches. They tend to run the defense, even if they have a so called DC. When it comes down to it you teach what you know, because it's hard to effectively teach anything else, and it's hard to learn new things well after so many years of doing something else. Maybe he will get hired and shock everyone by running a different scheme, but I doubt it. The flexbone option is not just some other offense either, it's not one you can adapt and change much. It's not like an evolution from I form to West coast, to spread passing or air raid. It's a lot easier to adapt a zone read option game and single wing game with other offenses than the kind of option that Navy and GT run. Ohio St. adapted an option well when they made their title run two years ago because it was a run/pass option built off of core elements they already had. All kinds of teams have made similar small adaptations over the past decade. Running a true "spread option" from the flexbone is a different animal, and almost no one runs it.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
It's my experience that defensive coaches tend to be more willing to delegate than offensive guys: very few HC's with a defensive background call plays, while quite a few offensive guys continue to even when they run the whole show.
It's hard for me to see Niumatololo running something other than the Flexbone since that's basically all he's ever know as a coach and he's had a ton of success doing it that way. He's not the play caller at Navy though FWIW.
It's hard for me to see Niumatololo running something other than the Flexbone since that's basically all he's ever know as a coach and he's had a ton of success doing it that way. He's not the play caller at Navy though FWIW.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
I don't think BYU ever had elite talent at the skill positions, except sometimes at QB. I think their scheme was ahead of its time and created problems for defenses who were not used to seeing it , and then they had superior execution from guys who were coachable and good athletes, but not elite athletes. Their defenses were rarely that good, just adequate. BYU was also the big fish in a small pond (as was most of CFB before super conferences in the mid 90s). They beat up on the easy teams in their area, then had a few games a year against good teams where they went 50/50 in those games (same as everyone else in CFB btw, except the teams in conference with BYU were generally worse than then other conferences). The problem is that the world of CFB got a lot more competitive and expensive, and BYU has had a hard time keeping up given the constraints of their institution (honor code, white homgeneity, second tier finances) . I think they kept up well into the mid 2000s, then the recruiting disparities started to really show. Slowly but surely UofU started to compete for best athletes in the state. Programs all over the country started to recruit polynesians more. Programs all over the country started to put incredible resources into their programs and became win at all costs operations. BYU used to have pretty good money by CFB standards, but now they are an average P5 school in terms of money, and it's harder for them to woo athletes without questionable moral methods (bribes, campus parties, etc). Mormon athletes are not enough in the new ultra competitive environment of CFB, and non-Mormons don't really want to go to BYU. The non-Mormons BYU tends to get are kids that couldn't start at other schools and wanted to play right away for some kind of name D1 school with exposure. This is especially true at DB. BYU gets black CBs by going JUCO more often than they should have to for a program of their caliber.
Again, the money issue is getting bigger. Sure BYU makes more money now than ever as an independent with ESPN behind them. However, they can't keep up with the arms race when conferences are giving out 25 million a year, including instate rival UofU. Wittingham makes 2.6 million I think, and BYU will not pay that kind of money for coaches. Their cap is about 1.5 or so from what I read, surely 2 million tops, and they would prefer it to be closer to 1 million. You have to understand that LaVell never made that much money, BYU has never paid a ton to anyone.
People also don't realize how tough recruiting at BYU got over the past decade. Bronco was down to about 35 targets a year, hoping maybe 15 of them would sign, and the rest of every class were local fill ins who were not really D1 caliber. After ascertaining if a recruit actually had D1 talent, Bronco had two criteria that started the weed out process to get to 35:
1) Would they consider playing at BYU, meaning were they LDS, and/or would they accept the Honor Code (or least put up a good show of it).
2) What was their High School GPA?
Bronco wanted smart kids, but more importantly he wanted disciplined kids and motivated kids. This was especially true of the bottom of his class. He couldn't make those kids more talented, but he could coach them up to decent if they were teachable and put in effort. He needed those kids to fill out his recruiting classes, and that is what GPA meant to him. Anyway, the kicker is that BYU would get about 15 of their targets, kids that were actually talented, but they had little control over positions. They just got 15 athletes and hoped they could fit them into roles somehow. Whatever else they could not cover, they went after with JUCOs and kids from far away (non-mormon) that wanted a shot at exposure with a D1 school. These were often black athletes to play CB, the bane of BYU recruiting for years.
One of the reasons for this recruiting problem stemmed from around 2003 when Gary Crowten was coach. There were some rape allegations and it embarrassed the LDS church, and soon after Bronco was hired and he was told to fix the culture. He was told to recruit good kids who would not embarrass the church, and oh yeah, find a way to win doing that. I think Bronco did a great job all things considered with those limitations.
Let's get down to brass tacks and what BYU is up against. BYU simply can't attract top black athletes, and they never have, and you need them to play CB, WR, and HB if you want to compete nationally. Like it or not, black athletes have the top speed and agility that few other players have. Polynesians have incredible speed power quickness combinations, but they don't usually have top speed. They are awesome at defense at every position except CB. They make great power backs, but not top speed running backs. They can make good slot receivers due to quickness, but rarely do they have the top speed for X or Y receivers. That is not to say that some polys don't excel at those other positions sometimes, but at the highest levels of CFB, where do you see them play? Why? Mostly physical limitations. It's just their genetics, just like white athletes don't tend to have the top speed ability either.
What BYU has really hurt BYU the past 7 years, IMO, is disappointing OL play. Supposedly they get some decent recruits, but they don't seem to play as well as they are rated. I think that is largely a coaching issue, but it may also be a recruiting limitation that is finally being exposed too. Maybe the Utah area doesn't actually produce OL as well as they thought. The defenses have been very good since Bronco took over, and the passing game has been good at times, but rarely has the running game been up to snuff to compete nationally. In fact, since 2010, the running game is as bad as it has ever been at BYU. God bless Brian Kariya, but he would not make the roster of almost any P5 school. In the past 20 years BYU has not had a really good running attack other than the eras of Harvey Unga, Curtis Brown, and Luke Staley.
None of this is a knock on BYU. I have had season tickets in the past, I really like BYU, and I want them to succeed. This is just how I see it. BDub nailed it when he said build for defense and work on keeping your QB pipeline coming. BYU is actually getting some good WRs for the better part of a decade. Not elite WRs, but very good, which is all you need with top QBs. They have always had good TEs. If they keep the QBs coming and build for defense, they might be able to stay competitive nationally. I don't see the QBs coming with Ken Niumatalolo as HC either, and that will kill BYU. At least bring in a DC like Sitake or Anderson and pick a traditional OC to keep QBs wanting to pick BYU. I am saying this as a power running fan, because it's the truth. As much as I loved the year BYU had Harvey Unga, Manase Tonga, and Vakapuna in the backfield all at once
, that is not the way for BYU to stay competitive. Tanner Mangums are what BYU needs to stay competitive.TL
R - Build for defense, play an offense that keeps QBs coming, and hope you can still get a few top athletes that are either Mormon or will put up with the honor code. Or BYU could go the same route as almost every other school in the country, and stop caring what kind of kids it recruits so long as they win.
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Wooly
Well-Known Member
Thank all that is holy BYU is interviewing Sitake tomorrow.
Now if one of those wealthy BYU boosters will just get on a plane for California tomorrow and go talk to Anderson, that would be appreciated. Go knock on his door, tell him to call BYU and ask for an interview, then flash the cash for him, because BYU won't. Football is a lot funner in this state when Utah and BYU are both good.
Now if one of those wealthy BYU boosters will just get on a plane for California tomorrow and go talk to Anderson, that would be appreciated. Go knock on his door, tell him to call BYU and ask for an interview, then flash the cash for him, because BYU won't. Football is a lot funner in this state when Utah and BYU are both good.
You cray. Show me one post where I said anything about recruiting and ignoring on the field play.
I watch almost every game. They have improved by light years in his 3 seasons as Tennessee's corch if you can't see that, then you are just trolling. They were so damn bad and lacked any talent when he took over. Now they have a chance to win 9 games and next year looks like they have the chance to compete for the SEC if things fall their way. Their entire team is coming back.
GuyIncognito
pressure cooker full of skittles
Can't help but think of this thread when I saw this. Fire everybody!
College sports’ fastest-rising expense: Paying coaches not to work
College sports’ fastest-rising expense: Paying coaches not to work
Renegade
Charge on!
TL
What would you think of a run and shoot at BYU? It maximizes having smart players at WR and QB, and if you've got a good OL, you can get that running game going.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Does he lead them headlong into concussions?
fried rice
Who wants to sex Mutombo?
My mentor, who was also a great man, led me into concussions, and i tvuejrnnes ltijfn dlgkrh
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
Just the QBs.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Well, Football Scoop reports that the BYU job is Ken Niumatalolo's to take if he accepts, but that Sitake will accept it if Ken doesn't. If that is true I think they have it backwards. Who knows how anything will actually turn out, but I still think Sitake is clearly the better choice when it comes to football. It appears though that the LDS church is much more interested these days in the image of the program than actually winning football games. The seem to want Ken because of how devout he is. I do think Ken is a good coach, but I think Sitake will help BYU win more. A defensive guy who can recruit Utah is about the best BYU can hope for right now, and BYU appears to be more interested in the religious devotion of their coach for the sake of PR. If Ken brings the option to Provo, I think BYU is in a world of trouble. Or maybe I am just wrong.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
If Niumatalolo can make the option work at Navy, of all places, BYU can also be successful with it, IMO. The reasons you outlined in an earlier post.about why BYU can never be competitive with the top tier of CFB in terms of attracting top-shelf athletes goes double for Navy and any of the other service academies. I don't know how academically rigorous BYU is, but Navy is up there with the Ivy Leagues, laptops and all. On top of that, Navy players know that whatever happens on the football field as a collegian, the best years of their athletic lives, which could be spent in the NFL making millions whioe playing before thousands will instead be spent aboard ships and planes, directing munitions costing millions to blow up thousands. It's a recipe that means that almost any 5 star (or 4 star and many 3 star) athletes who think they have a shot at the NFL would place Navy at or near the bottom of schools they'd plan to play football for.
The main thing will be changing the roster and systems to be geared toward the option, a process which could take several painful seasons. Normally this could be painful enough to be fatal to a coach's career, but if, as you say, Niumatalolo would be shown a lot of patience due to his devoutness (and presumably, running a very tight ship wrt off field issues), he could take BYU and turn them into an even better form of Navy.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Well, the question is how successful Navy and Ken has been. Navy has won in lesser conferences against inferior opponents. I am talking about BYU staying ranked in the Top 25 almost annually, basically being nationally competitive. Ken has still done a terrific job, but the teams he plays against now in the American Conference, are the teams BYU needs to beat as their "gimme" wins if BYU wants to be nationally competitive.
Yes Navy wins against teams with more talent, but not much more talent, and not every year. They still need to get wins against bad teams to be bowl eligible. Will Ken get better talent at BYU? Yes, but probably not much better talent on offense than what he has now, IMO. Offensive talent doesn't want to play the option, and BYU needs to get QBs. The defense will be fine, the offense is the question, and I think Ken makes it harder. That means he will make it hard to stay nationally competitive with Ken.
The other issue with Ken is actually how devout he is. Will he look the other way on minor things and allow some better athletes with less adherence to the honor code? Almost certainly he will be more strict than Sitake, and that is problem for BYU to be nationally competitive. There are not enough talented devout Mormon athletes for BYU to be nationally competitive, there just isn't. BYU needs some kids who are not Mormon to come play, and they will likely have a hard time with the honor code, not because they are bad kids at all, but because almost no one else believes in that standard. Going forward, this is the crucial decision BYU has. If they pick Ken for his devoutness over Sitake, and it appears they have, they are deciding to not make national prominence their priority. That is fine if that is what you want. I like a nationally competitive BYU, so I want Sitake, or Anderson, etc. Hell, I am fine with a non-member coach. That is just how I see it.
Can BYU be nationally competitive, even with their current restrictions? Yeah, I think they can, but it would take a superior coach and a superior approach. And honestly, probably a less devout coach.
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Wooly
Well-Known Member
You say that, and maybe you are right, or right to an extent, but I don't see it. Maybe Ken modifies it to some other more palatable option, or maybe he lets some OC do their own thing entirely. I don't see that either, but think about this: What does Ken know? Option style offenses. If he runs something else, either himself or some OC, what value does Ken bring to the table? It's hard for Ken to actively coach and teach, or evaluate the teaching of others, if he is not well versed in it. If he was a defensive guy, it would work fine, because he can at least focus on the defense, and that is what matters at BYU now. But as an offensive coach who knows the option offense, he will be relying on other people for both the offense and defense, without an expert understanding of either.
Of course in the end I don't see him leaving the offense alone anyway, no matter who the OC is. Or maybe he will shock me, who knows.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Wooly, you are such a smart person, I can't believe you really think that Coach Ken would come to BYU and just throw away one of the positions BYU recruits the best just to go with the option. There's no way he's that dumb. That's why I stand by my comment that if he's hired the success of the team will rely on who he gets as the OC.
Karl Hungus
Here to fix the cable
Big white stiff QBs?
gilstein21
Well-Known Member
Doesn't he have some run and shoot experience from his Hawaii days too?
Craig7835
Well-Known Member
well everyone is talking coaches on the hot seat,I got some coordinators that are or will be on the hot seat after the season:
https://t.co/Ko2ReW5jTp
https://t.co/Ko2ReW5jTp
Wooly
Well-Known Member
That is what it's looking like right now. Nothing official, lots of news saying he is staying.
Sitake is assumed to be taking the position now, but I think just based on one source, Football Scoop. Still, Gary Anderson at OSU is saying 'no comment' which makes it all the more likely.
Watch Sitake bring back the Haka toward the opposing team, let the kids some slack on the honor code, and then all the polys start coming to BYU.
Sitake is assumed to be taking the position now, but I think just based on one source, Football Scoop. Still, Gary Anderson at OSU is saying 'no comment' which makes it all the more likely.
Watch Sitake bring back the Haka toward the opposing team, let the kids some slack on the honor code, and then all the polys start coming to BYU.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Don't get excited now
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Texas wishes that's the only kind of QB BYU got.
@Wooly You got your wish. But should we be wringing our hands worried that he's going to bring the press coverage that's basically the only thing he knows when that style of D doesn't work for the DB recruits BYU gets?
Bdub
Well-Known Member
Sitake brings the blitz and gets beat left and right. It's the extreme version of the defense Utah has been running for 30 years or more. In my opinion BYU can't recruit Defensive Backs good enough to play single coverage on the outside. I think the importance of having a Polynesian coach is overblown. Utah only had Sitake and now they have no Polynesian coaches and have not missed on any since he left. Oregon has no Polynesian coaches and recruits them as good as anyone. I also think if the church was so concerned about the image of their sports teams they would have put a stop to all the dirty play.
As far as being nationally relevant, the only people who think they can be are their fans who where delusional enough to believe all the crap Bronco told them.
As far as being nationally relevant, the only people who think they can be are their fans who where delusional enough to believe all the crap Bronco told them.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Sitake could still say no.
Sitake was not my first choice, just my preference between Navy's HC (too hard to spell) and Sitake. BYU pretty much narrowed it down to the two of them, not me. I think Anderson from Stanford would have a better choice (if he was interested), if you have to go the active LDS route. I would actually give up on going the active LDS route, but that is just me.
When I say nationally relevant, I mean being ranked in the Top 25 like 75% of the time or something. I think BYU can do that, even given their current obstacles, if they have the right coach and right situation. They should win 8-11 games a year, win 1-2 of their better matchups, and be ranked somewhere regularly. They can do that with their current schedules. They don't have a tough conference game every week. All they have to do is play defense and keep some decent QBs, WR, and TE coming through, and get their OL to play a little more like 8 years ago, and they can win 8-11 games out of 13 almost every year. BYU has enough of a brand and market following to get bowl games every year, and if they finish 10-3, they are almost certainly getting ranked. Look at this year, if they beat Utah in the bowl game, they will be 10-3, and they will likely be ranked. They will have zero wins against a ranked team, but they will be ranked. That is all they have to do.
I don't know that Sitake is a must for recruiting polys, but it can't hurt that he has been recruiting them in Utah successfully for a decade. He already knows everyone and has all the contacts. The HS football world in Utah is fairly small. BYU always brought in polys, but they still keep a few poly guys on their staff just to recruit them. BYU has been starting to slip in recruiting to UofU lately, and Sitake can only help in that regard. BYU has to keep up with local recruiting or they won't be nationally relevant. Sure they get players from elsewhere, but without polys (including locally) BYU would not have a real football program. Sending missionaries to Pacific Islands from the late 1800s on, is the most important thing to ever happen for BYU football. Look at the top players on defense for BYU, and they are mostly polynesians. They also make up FBs, RBs, TEs, and even a WR or two. Maybe you don't need Sitake for that to happen, but it can't hurt. Utah can recruit some black athletes, BYU doesn't very well, so they had better double down on polys.
No offense to Ken, I just don't think he will be as successful at BYU as at Navy, for reasons I have stated before. As for Sitake running the wrong defense, I don't know what he runs that much. Maybe he have problems, maybe he will suck. Maybe he will adapt it a bit. I think their is some reason to think he can keep BYU neck and neck with Utah for recruits, and that matters a lot. He at least has a shot because he is a defensive guy, and BYU will have to hang their hat on that going forward.
Sitake was not my first choice, just my preference between Navy's HC (too hard to spell) and Sitake. BYU pretty much narrowed it down to the two of them, not me. I think Anderson from Stanford would have a better choice (if he was interested), if you have to go the active LDS route. I would actually give up on going the active LDS route, but that is just me.
When I say nationally relevant, I mean being ranked in the Top 25 like 75% of the time or something. I think BYU can do that, even given their current obstacles, if they have the right coach and right situation. They should win 8-11 games a year, win 1-2 of their better matchups, and be ranked somewhere regularly. They can do that with their current schedules. They don't have a tough conference game every week. All they have to do is play defense and keep some decent QBs, WR, and TE coming through, and get their OL to play a little more like 8 years ago, and they can win 8-11 games out of 13 almost every year. BYU has enough of a brand and market following to get bowl games every year, and if they finish 10-3, they are almost certainly getting ranked. Look at this year, if they beat Utah in the bowl game, they will be 10-3, and they will likely be ranked. They will have zero wins against a ranked team, but they will be ranked. That is all they have to do.
I don't know that Sitake is a must for recruiting polys, but it can't hurt that he has been recruiting them in Utah successfully for a decade. He already knows everyone and has all the contacts. The HS football world in Utah is fairly small. BYU always brought in polys, but they still keep a few poly guys on their staff just to recruit them. BYU has been starting to slip in recruiting to UofU lately, and Sitake can only help in that regard. BYU has to keep up with local recruiting or they won't be nationally relevant. Sure they get players from elsewhere, but without polys (including locally) BYU would not have a real football program. Sending missionaries to Pacific Islands from the late 1800s on, is the most important thing to ever happen for BYU football. Look at the top players on defense for BYU, and they are mostly polynesians. They also make up FBs, RBs, TEs, and even a WR or two. Maybe you don't need Sitake for that to happen, but it can't hurt. Utah can recruit some black athletes, BYU doesn't very well, so they had better double down on polys.
No offense to Ken, I just don't think he will be as successful at BYU as at Navy, for reasons I have stated before. As for Sitake running the wrong defense, I don't know what he runs that much. Maybe he have problems, maybe he will suck. Maybe he will adapt it a bit. I think their is some reason to think he can keep BYU neck and neck with Utah for recruits, and that matters a lot. He at least has a shot because he is a defensive guy, and BYU will have to hang their hat on that going forward.
Renegade
Charge on!
Come on BYU, time to just accept that independence is a folly and join the best conference available to you - the American. We could have had a damned good conference had BYU wanted to jump on board when SDSU and Boise were.
West - BYU, Boise, SDSU, Houston, SMU, Tulsa
East - UCF, USF, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn
I'm sure the American would still accept BYU, but I'm guessing with the sweetheart MWC TV deal they got and no home for their Olympic sports that the Boise boat has sailed. So not sure what we'd do to balance you, but the American is clearly the P5.5 conference, well above the other G5 conferences in every way. It's a lot better than independence and nothing to play for but the Las Vegas Bowl and a super longshot playoff bid. And with the American's ESPN deal and nationwide footprint, you'd still get the publicity the church seems to want from the team.
West - BYU, Boise, SDSU, Houston, SMU, Tulsa
East - UCF, USF, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn
I'm sure the American would still accept BYU, but I'm guessing with the sweetheart MWC TV deal they got and no home for their Olympic sports that the Boise boat has sailed. So not sure what we'd do to balance you, but the American is clearly the P5.5 conference, well above the other G5 conferences in every way. It's a lot better than independence and nothing to play for but the Las Vegas Bowl and a super longshot playoff bid. And with the American's ESPN deal and nationwide footprint, you'd still get the publicity the church seems to want from the team.
Renegade
Charge on!
I feel pretty comfortable with where the AAC is. We're about where the Big East was post-2004. We just need to replicate this year a few more times and that will be completely apparent. Attendance struggles some at a few schools, but on-field play is similar quality, especially if you compare the top 8 to the 8 teams in the Big East. We do need Tulane, SMU, and Tulsa to get their shit together in terms of performance and attendance.
With the P5 conferences all heading toward 9 conference games, the CFP is going to end up at 6 teams with autobids to the conference champs. The last bid should be the winner of an AAC-MWC playoff.
Lightningwar
Administrator
So is Sumlin going to be on the hotseat after this exodus of players from College Station?
coogrfan
Well-Known Member
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
I like the comments being made that Coach Ken couldn't adapt his offense to fit BYU so he shouldn't be hired but Coach Sitake would be able to. Any coach worth his salt should be able to do that. That's why I wasn't concerned either way.
I'm comfortable with BYU's independence. Is it what we want? No. We would LOVE to be in a big conference. But independence is much preferable to us than joining the MWC, WAC, AAC, or anything like that. Perhaps if ESPN takes away their TV contract that may change. We know short-term it's not the best option. And we know short-term that it makes it more difficult to get into a New Years Six bowl game. But for now, independence is the best option. It doesn't mean fans are happy and just fine with it. But most fans agree it's what we need to be for now. Then we'll be ready to jump to any conference that will have us and not have to wait or pay a conference exit fee.
I'm comfortable with BYU's independence. Is it what we want? No. We would LOVE to be in a big conference. But independence is much preferable to us than joining the MWC, WAC, AAC, or anything like that. Perhaps if ESPN takes away their TV contract that may change. We know short-term it's not the best option. And we know short-term that it makes it more difficult to get into a New Years Six bowl game. But for now, independence is the best option. It doesn't mean fans are happy and just fine with it. But most fans agree it's what we need to be for now. Then we'll be ready to jump to any conference that will have us and not have to wait or pay a conference exit fee.
coogrfan
Well-Known Member
Honest question: why do you feel that independence is BYU's best option?
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
We can play around the country and show how well we travel and our national brand name. (Are we Notre Dame? No. But we've never claimed to be either.)
We don't have to share TV or bowl revenue with anyone.
The agreement with ESPN allows BYUtv to replay games, which may not sound like a lot but is a big deal to this fanbase (people like my dad who are too sick to attend and may not be able to watch live or have ESPNU and such).
No need to pay any fees or wait two years to join a bigger conference when/if an invite comes along.
If we were in the MWC, not a single one of those things would be true. Again, yes, it's near impossible for BYU to get a NY6 bowl in comparison to what it would be in a conference. But if we end up joining a P5 conference in the next few years it will have been worth it in the short-term. And we'd be in the conference right away which would be huge.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Great idea, Brick. We join the Big XII! Done deal. Man, if we'd known it was that easy we would have done it a long time ago!
And don't give me any "Join the MWC crap." If it's such a great landing spot, why don't YOU join the MWC?
Wooly
Well-Known Member
BYUs ultimate football goal is to be nationally relevant and in a P5 conference. Nothing else really interests them, and joining the AAC or MWC hurts those goals. New Years 6 bowls is not a big priority either. BYU gets a bowl every year no matter what, and that is fine with them, even if it's a lesser bowl. Getting to a playoff is more important than an NY6 bowl game when it comes down to it, and that will only happen from a P5 conference. It's actually better to be independent for BYU than to go back the MWC. BYU can win lots of games and be ranked all the time whether they go back the MWC or not. (BYU has a name brand enough to where if they win 10 games, they are going to get ranked and get a little publicity.) BYU can make more money as an Indy, and they have a better shot at a P5 conference if they stay Indy. Why not stay an Independent and keep trying for a P5 conference.
Being nationally relevant requires money, and BYU makes a LOT more money as an independent. Is it enough to stay with the P5 conf teams? No, but it's a lot better than MWC money. The MWC is not going to let BYU back in anyway, and certainly not with a TV distribution where BYU gets all the money. The MWC commissioner has already said there are teams in the MWC that will vote against BYU coming back anyway, because they don't want a big fish in their pond. Those teams will lose more games and hurt the progress their programs have made if BYU comes back. BYU doesn't want to go back, and the MWC doesn't want them back. It's a non-starter at this point.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's that easy though. You try and adapt, but it's hard to be good at something you don't know as well. It takes time, and CFB has no patience for long-term changes. At a major program, you have 3 years to show significant improvement. Try doing that if you have to learn something new. It's not as easy as hiring an OC either. Who evaluates if that OC is any good...an option style HC? What good OC will want to come to BYU and be under a HC who is offensive minded and runs the option for more than a decade?
Some adaptation is possible in the short run, but going from flexbone option to pro-style dropback passing is not an adaptation, it's a major change. Sitake can run the defense without major changes, and keep the same offense by bringing in an OC to run the same thing and stay out of the offense.
Bdub
Well-Known Member
Wooly I would agree with your assessment of them winning 10 games and being ranked and nationally relevant, but the way they are now scheduling would indicate they would rather lose more games and have a small shot at the playoffs. Whoever is their next coach will be lucky to win 7 games in 2016 or 2017, their schedule is P5 hard and they don't have the depth to succeed.
Lightningwar
Administrator
Without knowing numbers I tend to agree BYU is better off as independent than joining a mid-major conference. P5 conference however > independent. Notre Dame is going to join a conference in the future. The money is too much for them to pass. Vanderbilt had double what Notre Dame made in TV revenue last year.
Is that because ND Is still under an old contract when the revenue wasn't as high, though? When did they sign the current deal they are in?
Renegade
Charge on!
Notre Dame made $20m last year ($15m NBC + $5m ACC) compared to $31m for Vanderbilt. The ACC paid out $18-21m to each full-member. I believe the ACC is #3 in revenue as a whole, but to make up the difference they're going to have to get a conference network that is well distributed. But with the networks losing subscribers, that seems unlikely to happen, so Notre Dame isn't going to make more money unless they join the B1G or the SEC. Just joining the ACC (or the Big 12) won't increase their revenue unless one of those conferences adds a network. Last I heard, the ACC Network was on hold.
Lightningwar
Administrator
I didn't realize the ACC is paying them 5 million\year. That puts them in line with other ACC members with their current contract under NBC. Do you know if that 5 million increases as revenue for the conference increases? Or is it a flat 5 million\year?
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Well, that's a good point. They may have to back it off a bit, but I'd they get some improvement in recruiting, they may be able to eventually handle it.
Craig7835
Well-Known Member
So Texas A&M's chancellor is trying to get the gameplan together to get Sumlin & AD Hyman removed.I have to admit they haven't been shit Manziel left
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/tamu-football/is-kevin-sumlin-safe-into-2016/
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/tamu-football/is-kevin-sumlin-safe-into-2016/
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