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2014 MLB Thread: No Noodles

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
park_0f9l22gp_xloww2gw.jpg


But do they sell beer?
 

R2D2

Well-Known Member
Wat? Riverwalk is a damn nice AA stadium. The Civil War/railroad history alone makes it interesting.

Compared to the Barons, it's meh. I forgot the Biscuits aren't AAA, but I do agree on the history part being interesting.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
HEY DUMBASS CUB FANS! WE ARE A 90+ LOSS TEAM WITH JEFF SAMARDZIJA! WE ARENT PAYING HIM 100+ MILLION AND STILL BE A 90+ LOSS TEAM.

TRADING HIM FOR LONG TERM ASSETS IS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION.

rant over
What about keeping your good players so the process of rebuilding is quicker? You want to trade him for "long term" assets and just continue to be bad?

If I were a Cubs fan, I'd be in favor of trading maybe for some almost MLB ready players. But why trade for more younger long-term projects? Just to continue rebuilding forever? It's not like the Cubs are a small market team who can't afford to boost a 80-82 win core with a couple huge FAs.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
If i were a cubs fan id be patient and want them to lose as much as possible right now.
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
I am completely behind the rebuild plan, beat the Braves and Cardinals if possible lose every other game.

The thing with Samardzija is will he be here, when the Cubs are good? He is going to be 30 before next season, is 100+ million better spent somewhere else? The entire rebuilding process is behind the schedule, they haven't even started the Wrigley renovations. I would say get what you can for anyone older than 27ish that has trade value.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I am completely behind the rebuild plan, beat the Braves and Cardinals if possible lose every other game.

The thing with Samardzija is will he be here, when the Cubs are good? He is going to be 30 before next season, is 100+ million better spent somewhere else? The entire rebuilding process is behind the schedule, they haven't even started the Wrigley renovations. I would say get what you can for anyone older than 27ish that has trade value.
I agree it's a hard decision. The thing is he is only 29 and didn't pitch his entire life so he doesn't have as many miles as most other pitchers. He is probably entering his prime now too.

I'd probably pull the trigger on a deal that brought good players in AA/AAA and maybe a long shot type on low A. But again do you wanna roll the dice that you'll trade for someone good (look at the hauls teams get for players as good as him… very rare they get a player as good back) or just keep someone you know is good?
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I agree it's a hard decision. The thing is he is only 29 and didn't pitch his entire life so he doesn't have as many miles as most other pitchers. He is probably entering his prime now too.

I'd probably pull the trigger on a deal that brought good players in AA/AAA and maybe a long shot type on low A. But again do you wanna roll the dice that you'll trade for someone good (look at the hauls teams get for players as good as him… very rare they get a player as good back) or just keep someone you know is good?

If I'm Istanbul I'm sending a 3* pitcher to a contender for prospects every time.
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
What about keeping your good players so the process of rebuilding is quicker? You want to trade him for "long term" assets and just continue to be bad?

If I were a Cubs fan, I'd be in favor of trading maybe for some almost MLB ready players. But why trade for more younger long-term projects? Just to continue rebuilding forever? It's not like the Cubs are a small market team who can't afford to boost a 80-82 win core with a couple huge FAs.
samardzija is 29.. our big prospects wont be on the big club for another 2-3 yrs.. so he would be 31-32?? he wont be in our plans then.. selling him now at the peak of his value to acquire more "cheap" and hopefully "impact talent" is the way to go.. gathering as many cheap long term assets is the way to rebuild a team.. Cubs are more than several pieces away from being a good team.. so we keep payroll cheap, acquire as many long term assests as possible while keeping payroll down.. you develop those long term assets. and when they get to the big leagues and build a solid foundation..

that is when you spend money to fill in the blanks and start your run!

cubs are doing exactly that.. and spending 100's of million dollars to be an "80-82 win team" is pointless and basically just throwing money away..
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
samardzija is 29.. our big prospects wont be on the big club for another 2-3 yrs.. so he would be 31-32?? he wont be in our plans then.. selling him now at the peak of his value to acquire more "cheap" and hopefully "impact talent" is the way to go.. gathering as many cheap long term assets is the way to rebuild a team.. Cubs are more than several pieces away from being a good team.. so we keep payroll cheap, acquire as many long term assests as possible while keeping payroll down.. you develop those long term assets. and when they get to the big leagues and build a solid foundation..

that is when you spend money to fill in the blanks and start your run!

cubs are doing exactly that.. and spending 100's of million dollars to be an "80-82 win team" is pointless and basically just throwing money away..
You didn't get my point. Adding FAs to a 80-82 win core can get you to the playoffs. And yes adding long term assets is the way to rebuild a team but if you're a huge market team like the Cubs you don't have to be filled at every position with cheap players. You can afford to acquire some higher priced players. They aren't the Marlins or Royals. You shouldn't rebuild like they did.

They don't have to worry about keeping the payroll down like other teams do plus they barely have any long term deals. Edwin Jackson is really the only big dollar long term deal they have.

He's only been a full-time starter for two seasons before this one. It's not like this is Lincecum where he was abused in college then for years in the bigs throwing tons and tons of innings. 31-32 isn't that old for a pitcher especially for someone who has plenty of bullets left.

Trading Samardzija just continues the cycle of being a terrible team. AT some point you have to retain good players.
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
There are so many people in Chicago that want to see an 80 win team, that don't care about the big picture.

I think Jason Hammel is another one that should be traded, like Doh said you need to get something of quality back. Like they did in the Garza deal. He is going to be 32 this season, no way he in Theo's long term plan.

Guys like Travis Wood and Welington Castillo, who are both 27 should be kept and built around. Rizzo, Olt and Castro and the guys in the minors should be the future starting during the Sept. callups.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
You'd think so, but Yankee has been tanking for 20 years it seems if you count the UBL
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
You didn't get my point. Adding FAs to a 80-82 win core can get you to the playoffs. And yes adding long term assets is the way to rebuild a team but if you're a huge market team like the Cubs you don't have to be filled at every position with cheap players. You can afford to acquire some higher priced players. They aren't the Marlins or Royals. You shouldn't rebuild like they did.

They don't have to worry about keeping the payroll down like other teams do plus they barely have any long term deals. Edwin Jackson is really the only big dollar long term deal they have.

He's only been a full-time starter for two seasons before this one. It's not like this is Lincecum where he was abused in college then for years in the bigs throwing tons and tons of innings. 31-32 isn't that old for a pitcher especially for someone who has plenty of bullets left.

Trading Samardzija just continues the cycle of being a terrible team. AT some point you have to retain good players.
this is also a business.. its been shown and proven that typically people dont come out and buy tickets for 80-82 win teams.. because typically that "isnt" gonna get you into the playoffs.. so the 100's of millions you spend to be that "80-82" win team does nothing but hurt your bottom line and hurt you even more from what your are trying to accomplish.. which is ACQUIRE YOUNG IMPACT TALENT. the best way to do that is have a high draft pick.

the money you save, by not being stupid by spending 100's of million dollar over the hill free agents for trying to be an "80-82" win team that no one is coming to pay and see anyway can be used to actually get "big name free agents" when the waves and waves of young talent get to your big league clubs and help make that core become a perennial 90-95 winning playoff contender.. the exact type of team the people will actually spend money on to come out and see.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
this is also a business.. its been shown and proven that typically people dont come out and buy tickets for 80-82 win teams.. because typically that "isnt" gonna get you into the playoffs.. so the 100's of millions you spend to be that "80-82" win team does nothing but hurt your bottom line and hurt you even more from what your are trying to accomplish.. which is ACQUIRE YOUNG IMPACT TALENT. the best way to do that is have a high draft pick.

the money you save, by not being stupid by spending 100's of million dollar over the hill free agents for trying to be an "80-82" win team that no one is coming to pay and see anyway can be used to actually get "big name free agents" when the waves and waves of young talent get to your big league clubs and help make that core become a perennial 90-95 winning playoff contender.. the exact type of team the people will actually spend money on to come out and see.
You really don't read anything anyone writes. YOU ADD FA'S TO THE 80-82 WIN CORE YOU BUILD TO GET TO 90-95 WIN LEVEL. I've posted this three times.

And you really have no clue how a team is built. You don't just go from 70 wins to 95 in one season. There is going to be a year or two where you're on the cusp 80-85 win team. Happened with the Giants in 2009 before they won 2 WS in three years. There isn't some magic season where an entire team leaps from 70 wins to 95 without some major acquisitions.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I see what doh is saying, but I say they get 2 more top 5 picks and then go HAM.

HAM
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
You don't acquire impact talent in May trades.
no usually you acquire multiple pieces.. you add multiple piecese several times over you have a big number of players who can be solid contributors.. you get enough of em, you turn a bad team into an average team.. the high draft picks that you have been using should hopefully be you impact talent.. you add those to the multiple pieces.. that turns you into a decent team..

when you have a decent team.. then thats when you start spending money
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
WE ARENT A 80-82 WIN TEAM!!!!
No shit. You keep a Samajidza to get to that level in 2-3 years. You understand pitchers like him don't just grow on trees? You don't just magically automatically get one in a trade. You're going to need someone like him be your 3rd or 4th best SP if you want to go the playoffs. Or you can just trade him away and hope that you get someone who is as good as him in 2019 and continue the rebuild process.
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
No shit. You keep a Samajidza to get to that level in 2-3 years. You understand pitchers like him don't just grow on trees? You don't just magically automatically get one in a trade. You're going to need someone like him be your 3rd or 4th best SP if you want to go the playoffs. Or you can just trade him away and hope that you get someone who is as good as him in 2019 and continue the rebuild process.
we are 90-95 loss team with him now... what part of that dont you understand??
why give him homer bailey money to continue to be a 90-95+ loss team? to throw money away??

in 2-3 years he will be a declining pitcher, like I dont know.. CC Sabathia?? lol @ that albatross of a contract..
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
The Cubs can't cry poor, but I don't think they have money Theo and Jed expected. It's a family owned business, not a corporation like the Tribune anymore. They were supposed to break ground in the Wrigley renovations 2 years. They have lost out on a lot of expected revenue for the stadium and advertising because of the rooftops. They WGN TV hasn't been redone yet. Chicago is a 2 team city, with the 2.7 million split evenly (which it isn't) but puts them more on par with Phoenix and San Antonia. Attendance is down about 20% for 2008-09. We don't have to hold a bake sale anytime soon, but I don't think Theo knew some of this stuff would take so long.

The Cubs have spent a lot of money on training facilities in Latin American and Arizona. From what I have read they have also hired 100 more scouts and coaches throughout the organization since 2011.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
we are 90-95 loss team with him now... what part of that dont you understand??
why give him homer bailey money to continue to be a 90-95+ loss team? to throw money away??

in 2-3 years he will be a declining pitcher, like I dont know.. CC Sabathia?? lol @ that albatross of a contract..
lol @ comparing him to CC. He's thrown about 1,200 less innings than CC and weighs about 100 pounds less.

I don't think you grasp the concept that if the Cubs are going to be good in 2016, he will still be good then. He could still be a very good pitcher in 2018-2019 too considering his background.

My final point: why trade for someone who might be ready by 2016 when you have someone you know will be good in 2016? It's not like he is 32-33 right now. He's only 29 and has barely pitched in his life. It defies logic why you'd pass on someone good for someone who might be good. Especially when you're a big market team and have no other huge salary commitments down the road.

By your logic the Giants should've traded Bonds in 95-96 when they were bad. The Pirates should've traded Cutch when they were bad. Why ever have a good player on a bad team or sign him? You should just continue to trade for prospects forever cause it's cool.
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
lol @ comparing him to CC. He's thrown about 1,200 less innings than CC and weighs about 100 pounds less.

I don't think you grasp the concept that if the Cubs are going to be good in 2016, he will still be good then. He could still be a very good pitcher in 2018-2019 too considering his background.

My final point: why trade for someone who might be ready by 2016 when you have someone you know will be good in 2016? It's not like he is 32-33 right now. He's only 29 and has barely pitched in his life. It defies logic why you'd pass on someone good for someone who might be good. Especially when you're a big market team and have no other huge salary commitments down the road.
yes.. and we can spend money on a big free agent pitcher then or trade for 1. like winning teams are looking at samardzija now.. we dont have to throw money away now to get one then
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
I think they need to get back major league talent, at least AA talent ready to play in the bigs. The Cubs have a lot of assets now they can package and get better players back.
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
I think they need to get back major league talent, at least AA talent ready to play in the bigs. The Cubs have a lot of assets now they can package and get better players back.
we have to figure out which ones can actually play at the MLB level first.. once that is established, then that would most likely happen
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
Tickets sales don't mean they are showing up and paying for parking, buying jerseys, beers etc...
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cc-sa...DMTBsOXB2YTRjBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--

you have this kind of shit contract when you are a shitty team. guess what happens? you get run out of town!
Comparing the two and how they age is beyond dumb. One is fat as shit. One is in great shape. One was a great athlete the other wasn't. One thew 190+ innings six times and 253 IP the year before he signed the deal. The other has one year with about 190 and never more than 213.

Obviously signing a pitcher to a 8+ year deal is stupid too. Theo won't do that.
 
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