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122nd Annual Winter Meetings in BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA!!

Wooly

Wooly

Well-Known Member
Karl Hungus said:
Still laughing at Wooly saying that it's bargain to trade for a bum making $20m so you don't have to haggle (and save $10m) with a similar FA.


FYI, let's look at FA agent pitchers signed last offseason:

Javier Valdez, signed for $3m (quality move by GM Otto in Buffalo)

Harrie von Kralingen, $6m


Dave ha nowhere near the value you think he does.
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I didn't say it was a bargain. I said it might make sense to some people, some years. It depends on the need, and the supply. What about other years where SP did get 20m in FA? Paying 5m extra might be worth it rather than take a chance in FA when you have to compete. It just depends.

Christian is not a bum either. I might be wrong about his value, but I think you are off too.


It's hard to have a conversation with someone (whether you agree with them or not) when they either 1) misunderstand your posts because they don't really read them or 2) deliberately misconstrue with them hyperbole.
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
I've tried discussing it with you and why he's not valued that way, everyone is telling you the same thing. Don't get defensive, just understand the reality of the situation.

65/55/60 is 100% average. And that's if you think his ratings will hold, which there's plenty of evidence to suggest it won't. He's coming off a 4.21 ERA/102 FIP- year, which is slightly below average. I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp here.
 
Wooly

Wooly

Well-Known Member
TonyGin&Juice said:
If FIP, FIP-, ERA, WAR, SO/W, and number of HRs don't matter when grading a 35 year old pitcher what does?
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Why would you deliberately imply that I said all these metrics don't matter? I didn't say these metrics don't matter (except for pitching WAR). I did discuss how I think some of these values matter, which was the point of the conversation.

How is your trolling going this afternoon?
 
osick87

osick87

Well-Known Member
Community Liaison
osick87 said:
If you're wanting to trade a SP, I'd take Jose Medina or Watters off your hands.
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:rolleyes:. Those guys have more value.

If you're wanting to trade Christian due to the salary then put what prospects you'd be willing to give up. Maybe one of the rich tanking teams may be willing to take it on for the extra org depth.
 
Wooly

Wooly

Well-Known Member
osick87 said:
His FIP- (park adjusted) isn't good either.

Wins do nothing with FanGraphs pitching WAR (Which is what OOTP has licensed). It's FIP+ based
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Travis and I have both run plenty of stats on this game, and the park adjustments are not right in this game. That seems to be especially true with pitching. There are a lot of correlations with pitching that don't add up. I think randomness matters more than we think in this game. You can run your own test with the park factors to see it doesn't correlate with the parks like it should. Try a few different park factor algorithms, I don't any of them add up like they should.
 
Wooly

Wooly

Well-Known Member
NML said:
I've tried discussing it with you and why he's not valued that way, everyone is telling you the same thing. Don't get defensive, just understand the reality of the situation.

65/55/60 is 100% average. And that's if you think his ratings will hold, which there's plenty of evidence to suggest it won't. He's coming off a 4.21 ERA/102 FIP- year, which is slightly below average. I'm not sure what's so hard to grasp here.
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I am not defensive, I am explaining my position in a conversation, and when someone incorrectly represents my points, then I want to correct them. You didn't agree with my assessment of Christian's value, and so we are debating it. That is fine. Sometimes my points have been incorrectly represented though, and that is different.

I don't see why you think Dave Christian is average. I think he's clearly a good pitcher. He is coming off a 3.69 ERA season, with a 3.6 K/BB ratio, tons of productive innings without injury (also very important), 62% QS, and a 4.21 FIP.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
You guys...ran the numbers?

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Wooly

Wooly

Well-Known Member
osick87 said:
:rolleyes:. Those guys have more value.

If you're wanting to trade Christian due to the salary then put what prospects you'd be willing to give up. Maybe one of the rich tanking teams may be willing to take it on for the extra org depth.
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It's true they do, but I don't want to trade them. I don't have to trade Christian, I just want to. He only has one obligatory contract year left, so I can keep him, but I would rather trade him since I don't need SP this year, or next for that matter. You are right, giving up something would help move him, but I don't have to move Christian. I am just seeing if he fits any specific needs for any managers. One year contracts can sometimes work that way.
 
TonyGin&Juice

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
Wooly said:
Travis and I have both run plenty of stats on this game, and the park adjustments are not right in this game. That seems to be especially true with pitching. There are a lot of correlations with pitching that don't add up. I think randomness matters more than we think in this game. You can run your own test with the park factors to see it doesn't correlate with the parks like it should. Try a few different park factor algorithms, I don't any of them add up like they should.
Click to expand...

Do you watch MLB? Plenty of guys and stadiums don't follow the convention. Look at some of the guys that pitched at Great American Ballpark (one of the smallest stadiums in MLB) and how they did in a place like Petco where the ball is dead and the stadium is huge. Or guys that dominated at Citizens Bank Park (another bandbox) but got lit up in pitcher friendly parks.

As far as the randomness of OOTP and MLB goes: 2059 and the 2015 Royals called.
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
did he do the thing? I can release them all and re-upload real quick
 
TonyGin&Juice

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
Wolfman21 said:
Bahaha...wooly trades a guy he released. Anyone want chico lourinho? Hes a FA, but ill take a 6th rounder for him!
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He's trying to talk me into sending him Raul Robles and one of my top IFAs to clear salary with him throwing in Dave Christian. Never mind that Christian has 10-and-5 rights and Robles does fine in his role as part-time LOOGY.
 
TonyGin&Juice

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
By the way, anybody want some draft picks? Looking to move my entire draft since I'm broke. Will trade entire draft for cheap starter that's not a bum.
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
Soonerfan09 said:
He just won a gold glove in LF...back-to-back 3.5+WAR seasons, hit .317 in 2061, .294 in '62. Very solid two hole.

You started this guy in left, CF Carlos Aguirre (SAD!), perhaps you would like Yamada?
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I wasn't saying he was bad, I was only asking that you call him a LF, since that's what he is. :laughing:

Besides, comparing WARS straight up is a Wooly trap, since you've only got a certain amount of ABs to go around, and Carlos is a 4th OF, not a starting LF and he did extremely well in that role. He won 1.8 WARS in 394 ABs (Find me a better 4th OF!) vs Yamada's 3.5 in 623 ABs. Thus Carlos's WAR rate is only slightly lower (0.46/100 ABS vs 0.56/ 100ABs). I'll stick with my boy CARLOS since he enjoys fishing in the off season, and has the added benefits of covering 3 positions and them intangibles. I appreciate the offer doe.
 
Soonerfan09

Soonerfan09

Well-Known Member
Travis7401 said:
I wasn't saying he was bad, I was only asking that you call him a LF, since that's what he is. :laughing:

Besides, comparing WARS straight up is a Wooly trap, since you've only got a certain amount of ABs to go around, and Carlos is a 4th OF, not a starting LF and he did extremely well in that role. He won 1.8 WARS in 394 ABs (Find me a better 4th OF!) vs Yamada's 3.5 in 623 ABs. Thus Carlos's WAR rate is only slightly lower (0.46/100 ABS vs 0.56/ 100ABs). I'll stick with my boy CARLOS since he enjoys fishing in the off season, and has the added benefits of covering 3 positions and them intangibles. I appreciate the offer doe.
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I wasn't necessarily calling him a CF, I just copy/pasta'd his name and position from the site. I should probably change his position to LF, because he sometimes gets moved to CF when there are injuries or subs lol.
Yamada was a very nice surprise for me as an IFA. Nobody wanted him so I was able to get him cheap, and he's been very good for me. I'm just running out of room in the OF and wouldn't mind moving him.
 
Travis7401

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
Fwiw, That was just part of my position schtick from back when I gave a fuck and tried to do awards, but was frustrated by the fact that people would not only have their players labeled as the wrong positions, but then they would complain about my awards because their CF should have won the RF award because he played there all season! Like I keep tabs on some random fucking NL CF (but not really) player.
 
Soonerfan09

Soonerfan09

Well-Known Member
osick87 said:
@Soonerfan09 What happened to Garry Rodmell? I can't find him on your Minor league System page
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Right now I believe I have him in AA. He was there last night (in game), so unless I messed something up this morning, he should still be there. I haven't checked the site to see if he shows up there, though.
 
TonyGin&Juice

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
@osick87 - a couple of people have recently discovered IFAs in A and AA. I know @Mr. Radpants has a guy he just signed in AA for some reason. Might be some phantom "shadow realm" nonsense going on again.
 
osick87

osick87

Well-Known Member
Community Liaison
Soonerfan09 said:
Right now I believe I have him in AA. He was there last night (in game), so unless I messed something up this morning, he should still be there. I haven't checked the site to see if he shows up there, though.
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Ahh I wasn't looking far down enough.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Wolfman21 said:
Bahaha...wooly trades a guy he released. Anyone want chico lourinho? Hes a FA, but ill take a 6th rounder for him!
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The best is he released a 3B who is 27 and averages 4 WAR per 162 games set to make about $5m... I don't get it.
 
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