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USA National Soccer (M & W) Thread
- Thread starter Yankee151
- Start date
To me, he really put his job on the line by leaving Donovan at home. I honestly thought his job was 100% secure because of how tough the group is. Their run through qualifying was so good that he earned the right to flame out here, especially if they play really attacking soccer and look competitive at least.... but then he left Donovan at home. If you leave one of your best and most experienced players at home, it is a HUGE decision that will backfire if the team performs poorly. Especially when it appears to be personal rather than professional in nature because your kid is tweeting shit. If, as I expect, they finish with 1 point and show a lack of ability to finish on the offensive end, Klinnsman will face a lot of well deserved criticism and second guessing for that decision. I don't think it would be enough to fire him outright, but he'd be on a hot seat moving forward.
If he gets 0 points, fire him and hire NML as corch and me and OU as talent scouts.
If he gets 0 points, fire him and hire NML as corch and me and OU as talent scouts.
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WingedHelmet
Well-Known Member
No one expects to get out of the group with or without Donovan. If Klinsmann genuinely thought the team would be better without him (or that Donovan wouldn't play an important role and would instead be more of a distraction) then he absolutely made the right call. Regardless of what J.A. Adande and Grant Wahl think.
Taking Donovan because he's been (past tense) the best player on the team and the media would throw a fit otherwise shows me Klinsmann is trying to do the right thing. Make your decisions and fuck the media and folks who don't know anything about the inner workings of the team.
If he advances you (obviously) keep him. If he gets three points you keep him. If he gets one point you keep him. If he gets zero points you still keep him.
Taking Donovan because he's been (past tense) the best player on the team and the media would throw a fit otherwise shows me Klinsmann is trying to do the right thing. Make your decisions and fuck the media and folks who don't know anything about the inner workings of the team.
If he advances you (obviously) keep him. If he gets three points you keep him. If he gets one point you keep him. If he gets zero points you still keep him.
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What if Klinsmann's decision is entirely personal (what it seems like) and not at all professional? By all means, please look at this team and tell me with a straight face that Donovan does not provide value as at least a substitute? In this Diamond formation Klinsmann wants to play, Donovan has the skill set to effectively contribute at both outside midfield spots, at the CAM spot and arguably could even provide depth at a very thin striker position. There are 5 positions in that starting lineup where he could fit and we don't have loads of depth anywhere, so his versatility could make him very valuable as a sub. As for the "distraction" angle, leaving him off the roster has certainly become a distraction (and will be even bigger if we are anemic on offense) so I don't buy it.
I don't even like Donovan, but you are high if you don't think he provides value in a 23 man roster. If Klinnsman made this decision earlier when Donovan was playing pouty face and not contributing during qualification, I would completely understand. You aren't part of the team that qualified, you don't get to go to the world cup. He had the perfect chance to leave Donovan at home and he ham-fisted it instead and allowed it to become a distraction.
I'm not saying he should be fired for it if they don't perform well, I'm just saying that it is a very high profile decision that will be second guessed if they don't perform well. His seat gonna be very worm if they get 0-1 points as I predict.
I don't even like Donovan, but you are high if you don't think he provides value in a 23 man roster. If Klinnsman made this decision earlier when Donovan was playing pouty face and not contributing during qualification, I would completely understand. You aren't part of the team that qualified, you don't get to go to the world cup. He had the perfect chance to leave Donovan at home and he ham-fisted it instead and allowed it to become a distraction.
I'm not saying he should be fired for it if they don't perform well, I'm just saying that it is a very high profile decision that will be second guessed if they don't perform well. His seat gonna be very worm if they get 0-1 points as I predict.
For once, I agree with Travis on a soccer topic.
I don't care if Donovan is getting old, has lost a step, or is a sandy vagina. He's still more skilled AND a better athlete than most of this roster. I understand the idea of not choosing based on past performances alone, and I agree. But it's not like he went from America's best player to NOT one its best 23 in the last couple of years.
Even if he was a substitute only. Say the US is trailing late in one of its games.....who's on the bench that you would honestly rather sub into the game than Landon Donovan?
**EDIT: In case I didn't make that clear, I believe that Klinsmann made the decision for personal reasons, not professional ones. I'm not advocating that his seat should be warm. I'm not even sure I'd argue that if the US totally bombs at the World Cup; it would largely depend on who was out there to replace him. I hope it's a non-issue. I hope the US surprises everyone and gets through; or at the very least, has a positive showing. I hope everyone forgets that Landon was left at home because they're overjoyed with how the team did, and they're ready to make him Saint Jurgen. I applaud him for having the balls to make an unpopular decision that he thinks is the right decision.....IF......he made that decision for the right reasons. But I have my doubts.
I don't care if Donovan is getting old, has lost a step, or is a sandy vagina. He's still more skilled AND a better athlete than most of this roster. I understand the idea of not choosing based on past performances alone, and I agree. But it's not like he went from America's best player to NOT one its best 23 in the last couple of years.
Even if he was a substitute only. Say the US is trailing late in one of its games.....who's on the bench that you would honestly rather sub into the game than Landon Donovan?
**EDIT: In case I didn't make that clear, I believe that Klinsmann made the decision for personal reasons, not professional ones. I'm not advocating that his seat should be warm. I'm not even sure I'd argue that if the US totally bombs at the World Cup; it would largely depend on who was out there to replace him. I hope it's a non-issue. I hope the US surprises everyone and gets through; or at the very least, has a positive showing. I hope everyone forgets that Landon was left at home because they're overjoyed with how the team did, and they're ready to make him Saint Jurgen. I applaud him for having the balls to make an unpopular decision that he thinks is the right decision.....IF......he made that decision for the right reasons. But I have my doubts.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
It was definitely personal. Donovan takes a short sabbatical, and then comes back and plays extremely well for the US in a shitty tournament. Still left off the roster. Chandler doesn't accept US call ups for a long time, pulls out because of injures, and then plays shitty when he's called up on top of that. He makes the squad, Donovan doesn't. HMMMM.
I do love how quickly the soccer faggots turned on their hero when some dirty German corch comes in and leaves him off the roster. I've always disliked Donovan, but even I can see he got done dirty.
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
If Donovan's mom was born in Germany he'd be on the team
Truthfully, I'm not a huge Donovan fan either. Despite being the best 'Murrican player ever and the best Galaxy player ever.......I still can't fully jump on the pro-Donovan bandwagon. Something about him (read: emo personality) just rubs me the wrong way.
He still really good, doe.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
The only thing that really bugs me about Donovan is that he hasn't really shown much ambition to be anything beyond the best player in the MLS. He barely gave Leverkusen a shot, and then beyond that just went on loan a couple of times. He seems to shy away from the highest competition in that sense. The same thing bugs me about Bradley, too, for what it's worth. Leaving Roma for the MLS like he did is pretty weak.
Two sides to every story, though. I think Donovan got immense pressure from US Soccer to be the face of the MLS. If your elite national players play in your domestic league, it adds a little credibility to the league. I'm sure he liked being the BMOC. Who wouldn't? But I assume part of the reason he kept going back to Europe on loan was to prove that he can cut it overseas.
Plus if you are good enough to get paid one of those top spots in the MLS, why go live overseas and take part in some crackerjack fixed euro trash league that is full of corruption? That shit would probably be frustrating if you aren't on the team that is pre-ordained to win the title... I mean I'd go one of two ways... either go make ridiculous money for a few years and play for some oil baron in bumfuckistan and score a ton of goals against terrible competition (and just fly in for your games, lol at living in Makhachkala or some shit)... or go play in the MLS and live in LA and just have fun being the big man on campus.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
I mean, Donovan likely made more money staying with the MLS, but he could have easily played for a top 4 team in most European leagues and given that a shot. Hell, if he stays at Leverkusen and does well, that's pretty likely. And even if he went to a mid table EPL team, he probably would have made just as much money.
Its it's not that I don't see the appeal of what he did. I just think he might have been an even better player if he had stayed in Europe and done some hard work work.
Its it's not that I don't see the appeal of what he did. I just think he might have been an even better player if he had stayed in Europe and done some hard work work.
MLS gon' be better than the Prem in 10 years. Suck it, Chibob. Cam Newton is working on his spot kicks as we speak.
Brick
Well-Known Member
lol at anyone in the mls being "big man on campus". you're still playing in front of 2000 American poser soccer mongs who are just there to be contrarian sports hipsters who don't even like Landon Donovan because he's too mainstream. soccer guy is loving this right now because they love to have the right opinion about Donovan being 'snubbed'. I c u bitches.
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fsuprime
Well-Known Member
unless your playing in Oregon (hipster poser capital) or Seattle lol, those games always over 50% full
ZeekLTK
Well-Known Member
Interesting juxtaposition that we ditched our best ever player even though he is still more than capable of playing starting on the team, and at the same time Mexico calls in 41-year old Blanco to start in their World Cup warmup game against Israel just so that they can honor him.
http://soccer.si.com/soccer/planet-...temoc-blanco-mexico-israel-world-cup-friendly
http://soccer.si.com/soccer/planet-...temoc-blanco-mexico-israel-world-cup-friendly
WingedHelmet
Well-Known Member
There are unlimited professional reasons to exclude Donovan. What if he earned a beep test score equivalent to a middle schooler (as is rumored)? What if he indicated that he felt he should start no questions asked and pouts when not playing? What if his presence led to a deference of younger players? We're talking about a guy that said he was no longer capable of training hard for a week straight and bailed on his teammates during their most important qualifying stretch because he was tired.
Klinsmann has to convince 22 others that they can beat Ghana, Germany, or Portugal, and we're not doing it on technical skill. If we advance, it'll be because of effort and team chemistry and "getting each others' backs." Donovan doesn't strike me as someone I'd want to battle with.
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I'll go with you. Just pay for my flight. I'll trade you McHeshi.
Orangebird
Premier League Champs
NML
Well-Known Member
I can get on-board with @WingedHelmet's thinking.
I've gone back and forth on it, but I think he brings up an interesting point, which is that all the media says it's a personal issue between JK and Landon, when it very well could be a personal issue with Landon and the rest of the team. He's always been a diva - he's never gotten along with Dempsey, he's been with the same coach for almost all of his career because Arena loves him (Arena is the most outspoken supporter of starting "real" Americans), and there's been a multitude of rumors that he half-asses conditioning.
The US is about to face the best of the best, we can't have someone on the team who thinks he's above 1) conditioning and 2) the rest of the team.
Obviously we don't and probably will never know exactly what happened and why he didn't go, but I trust Jurgen. Only one of Jurgen and Donovan is going to be there in Russia in 2018.
I've gone back and forth on it, but I think he brings up an interesting point, which is that all the media says it's a personal issue between JK and Landon, when it very well could be a personal issue with Landon and the rest of the team. He's always been a diva - he's never gotten along with Dempsey, he's been with the same coach for almost all of his career because Arena loves him (Arena is the most outspoken supporter of starting "real" Americans), and there's been a multitude of rumors that he half-asses conditioning.
The US is about to face the best of the best, we can't have someone on the team who thinks he's above 1) conditioning and 2) the rest of the team.
Obviously we don't and probably will never know exactly what happened and why he didn't go, but I trust Jurgen. Only one of Jurgen and Donovan is going to be there in Russia in 2018.
Like I said, look how fast you'll turn on your hero...
I'll put it this way. As a coach, if you fail to integrate one of your most talented players, that by definition is coaching failure.
I'll put it this way. As a coach, if you fail to integrate one of your most talented players, that by definition is coaching failure.
It was mostly directed at Winged and the Landon haters in this thread, but I'll pew pew pew at you too. Would you defend a coach's decision that left them KG off the team in the playoffs?
The US already has enough of a talent disparity with the rest of our group... if our coaching staff can't even manage to get the best players we have on the field... LAWD
The US already has enough of a talent disparity with the rest of our group... if our coaching staff can't even manage to get the best players we have on the field... LAWD
Renegade
Charge on!
He's over 30...who's to say that he's still one of our best players? And while bringing Davis and Wondo makes you wonder if he's really focused on 2018, given the odds we have, is it that crazy to focus on getting younger players experience in preparation for the future, when we may have the talent to go deep in the tournament?
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
EA predicts Germany to beat Brazil in the final.
USA goes three ties and out.
Major red flag with the predictions: England wins in the round of 16 on PKs.
https://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugg...-cup--predicts-fifa-video-game-234726737.html
USA goes three ties and out.
Major red flag with the predictions: England wins in the round of 16 on PKs.
https://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugg...-cup--predicts-fifa-video-game-234726737.html
I think everybody is to say
lol 
For the sake of argument, I'll assume that he's dropped way off and isn't good enough to start. Lets say two of of Davis/Bedoya/Zusi combo actually are better and get the starts at those outside mid spots. Just with his versatility to play multiple positions alone, he'd add more value as a sub than about 8 other guys, and all at positions where we lack depth. What an absurd argument that Landon Donovan is not "good" enough to make a 23 man roster for the United States. Am I taking crazy pills?
So lets say your other argument is right and Klinsmann is "preparing for 2018." Well that just makes it even worse. Leaving good players off a team with limited talent in order to plan for something 4 years down the road (that you might not even be around for) is more absurd than leaving Donovan off for personal reasons.
I also don't buy the "out of shape" rumors. If he actually did show up out of shape, Klinsmann would/should have used that as a legitimate reason to leave him. The fact that he spoke vaguely about "other players being a bit ahead" of him tells you all you need to know. Vague answer = personal issue.
For the sake of argument, I'll assume that he's dropped way off and isn't good enough to start. Lets say two of of Davis/Bedoya/Zusi combo actually are better and get the starts at those outside mid spots. Just with his versatility to play multiple positions alone, he'd add more value as a sub than about 8 other guys, and all at positions where we lack depth. What an absurd argument that Landon Donovan is not "good" enough to make a 23 man roster for the United States. Am I taking crazy pills?
So lets say your other argument is right and Klinsmann is "preparing for 2018." Well that just makes it even worse. Leaving good players off a team with limited talent in order to plan for something 4 years down the road (that you might not even be around for) is more absurd than leaving Donovan off for personal reasons.
I also don't buy the "out of shape" rumors. If he actually did show up out of shape, Klinsmann would/should have used that as a legitimate reason to leave him. The fact that he spoke vaguely about "other players being a bit ahead" of him tells you all you need to know. Vague answer = personal issue.
Renegade
Charge on!
I'm not suggesting that he's not. Personally, I think he should be on the team, but we weren't in training camp, and his league form was obviously not good until after he was cut, so we can't completely say where he was both physically and mentally at that point.
I can only say where he was talently. Talently he was one of the best players, everybody is to say that.
All the Klinsmann apologists seem to be using this Fox news tactic of asking ridiculous rhetorical questions based on no sane version of reality. Rumors of poor fitness, questioning his ability, etc.
Who's to say that Landon Donovan didn't kick Klinsmann's puppy? Are you saying you want some puppy kicking psycho on the team?
EDIT: I edited some stuff into this post because I wanted to formalize the point I'm making instead of making another post. If you don't like it, you can GTFO. you heathens who don't appreciate the edit are the worst. Dionne at me.
Who's to say that Landon Donovan didn't kick Klinsmann's puppy? Are you saying you want some puppy kicking psycho on the team?
EDIT: I edited some stuff into this post because I wanted to formalize the point I'm making instead of making another post. If you don't like it, you can GTFO. you heathens who don't appreciate the edit are the worst. Dionne at me.