Discussion in 'NCAA Football Discussion' started by JSU Zack, Feb 13, 2014.
I love when people bitch about screens cause what are you spose to do when they blitz every down
I call very few screens but see 9 man boxes all game. There are other solutions that are honestly less risky if you know what you're doing.
That being said, EA made the screens damn near impossible to stop (along with the Texas and Bench concepts).
The reason they are "impossible to stop" is because they are typically being called against defenses they are intended to defeat. Screens really aren't that hard to stop in this game, even my screens. If someone has a sound defensive alignment pre-snap, I typically won't even call a screen and I'll check out of it. But if someone is blitzing heavy or loading the box and not covering slots or playing hyper aggressive with their user safety, I'll screen people to death.
One of the favorite tricks of people in our ODs is man across the board, but user controlling the defender assigned to the tailback. Most people know very few users in our ODs throw to backs and so they'll free roam with that defender, keeping man across the board and the deep shell intact. You have to get the ball to the back some how and my double and triple screens were designed specifically for that. "Hey look at those receivers over there" and then swing it out to the back they were supposed to be covering.
My new adjusted double screen from Split (from earlier in this thread) where I'm actually reading a player and running two screens to one side has been a bit more hit or miss than I anticipated. In practice mode, the underneath screen came open more than anything. In live game action, the swing screen is typically the one that is open but I'd really rather not throw that.
Found something I can add to my spread attack in Madden kind of like the ole Miss or Auburn play 4 verts slide protect the line to the side of the back hot route the back to a wheel sprint out to that side an read the flat defender if he stays with the back pull it down an run if he comes up throw it over his head to the back
Lame lobby heads do that all game with ORE, TA&M and Ohio St....then they mix in read option, audible to 5 wide just to scramble and bunch formations....
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If that's all there doing its easy to stop but I don't see nothing wrong with mixing it in
I didn't say it was hard but it's lame playing someone who does 5 plays all game.... Not saying you're one of them usually all of that goes together.... I know lobby is lobby but that's where I see what you described alot....
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@SyedSchemes did a great breakdown of the Carolina run game. When the hell did Shula learn this?!
By asking Cam Newton... "Cam, what are your favorite plays from your time at Auburn" and then writing them down. That's ripped straight out of Auburn's playbook from when Cam was there, just dressed a little differently (no receivers play side to crack the first LB, instead it's paired with a screen). Looks like they use pin & pull rules up front as well since the BSG and C switched roles because that 1 technique is shaded way over into a 2/2i.
From Cam's time at Auburn:
I assume Shula met with some spread coaches over the years, but that offense looks completely different to what he used in Tuscaloosa. He ran mostly zone from one back. Now, he's pulling guards like crazy.
That's the beauty of going of pin & pull. You're still "zone" and you're teaching zone rules and nothing really changes from an ID and communication perspective so you can add pullers without really changing anything.
I'd say it is a lot easier going from being zone only to integrating some gap schemes than being gap/man only and going to zone. Once you have the foundation set with zone, you can really tweak it to do anything you want. When you have a Cam Newton type talent, you put your stuff aside and figure out every possible way you can let him prosper.
Mike Riley's offense at Nebraska is another good example. Mike Riley was one back zone with a pro passing attack his entire career. Pretty much inside zone, fly sweep and the occasional draw and a ton of screens. That wasn't going to fly at Nebraska and didn't mesh with Nebraska's talent and so they really started plugging in a bunch of QB run stuff (power/counter), unique QB Sweep plays with OZ rules, two back under center stuff including a shit ton of traps and fullback trap is a good way to give Nebraska fans wood.
You can't be married to one thing as a coach, especially an offensive coach. Even guys like Malzahn and Meyer who are known for a very specific scheme have gone through a ton of changes year to year.
What are the best of the gun H-back formations?
I know there's Normal offset weak, Normal flex wing offset and weak, normal wing offset and weak, wing-trips offset and weak, and wing trio offset and weak. Which are the most effective passing and running? Which do y'all favor?
Oh man I could write a dissertation on this topic because I've spent an ungodly number of hours of my life trying to figure out which is best and why and also which I need/don't need. I'll give you a quick breakdown of each off the top of my head and then let you know which I typically use and why.
Split Y Offset - Fine if you're an option team and it has the 3 auto-orbit motion plays but otherwise lacking.
Slot F Wing - Killer formation *IF* you're a 21/12 personnel pro spread type of team. The combo of speed option, read option and dive are deadly and it has a shockingly good pass game selection. Don't sleep on HB Toss out of that formation as well (but only run it to the right).
Normal Flex Wing - Decent formation because it is one of the few formations in the game to have a Fk Jet Dive play (and the only 11 personnel formation with it). If you run Jet, I'd recommend it for that. Otherwise you can skip it.
Normal Flex Wing Wk - Possibly the best, if not the second best, wing gun formation in the game. Has all the core plays including Counter, Power, Read, Split Zone, Split Zone Read, Shovel plus a nice selection of pass plays including the only PA Read play in the game that is an NCAA route (Post/Dig). I'd say this is the best passing wing formation.
Normal Offset Wk - If Normal Flex Wing Wk is not the best, this one is because it has all the same stuff as above but adds PA Bubble (quick audible as long as you remove all the other PA) and it has the Mtn Swing Screen that I create.
Normal Wing Offset - Borderline useless formation unless you happen to like the 3 H-Back auto-motion plays. As someone who hates auto-motion, it's pointless.
Wing Offset - Really good formation because it has both Z Spot and PA Read (Flood) and it has a unique mix of jet/orbit auto-motion because because it is 20 personnel, it makes it really tough to use if you're a HUNH team.
Wing Offset Wk - Probably my third favorite of the group, if only because of the PA Jet Wheelies play. That play just wrecks people because so many people just ignore the H-Back out of the backfield.
Wing Trips Offset - Similar to Normal Wing Offset, this formation does not offer a whole lot BUT unlike Normal Wing Offset it does offer a PA Bubble and PA SE Screen combo. If you limit the plays in this formation to Dive, Read, Slot Option, PA Bubble, PA SE and Fk Screen Wheel, it can be really effective.
Wing Trips Offset Wk - Great formation but the lack of a bubble is frustrating. Does have the motion swing screen play though.
F Twins Over - Not offset but a great formation none the less, has just about everything you could need.
Empty Wing Trio - Underrated Empty formation because it's one of the few that has a HB @ QB package. If you want "wildcat" but don't want to go through the bother of actual Wildcat formations, it's great. I could run that QB Power all day, especially down on the goal line with HB1 at QB.
Pistol Wing Trio/Offset - Not Gun, but deserves a special shoutout because it's a hell of a formation. Wing Trio and Offset are the same but there's a glitch in the game that lists them separately when you create a playbook. Suffer from the same problem as Wing Offset in that its 20 personnel, but a great formation with really nice Power and Counter plays plus that Zone Wk play which is awesome. In the original version of my Spread-I, I used this as a base and then had LB/RB audibles to "jump" to Gun Wing Offset Wk/Wing Offset to counter people gaming my reads.
Personally, I settled on using:
Normal Flex Wing (for the 3 Jet plays only)
Normal Flex Wing Wk
Normal Offset Wk
Wing Offset Wk
Wing Trips Offset
Wing Trips Offset Wk
Empty Wing Trio
8 formations, ~70 plays. It is a lot and there is a TON of overlap, but each individual formation offers a subtle tweak that I felt I needed for my offense. Because I'm an entirely offset gun offense, I felt that I just needed the subtle changes each individual formation offered. In a perfect world, all I'd need is 4 formations: Slant Twins/Trips and Stack Twins/Trips with every concept available in each but this is EA world where shit makes no sense from an organizational standpoint so here we are.
Gun to my head, if I had to narrow it down, I'd pick Normal Flex Wing Wk, Normal Offset Wk and Wing Offset. In reality, I could probably get away with solely Normal Offset Wk. It's the one I use most by a long shot. It has all the core run plays for my offense, it has bubble to stress the alley defender when people try to load the box, it has the Motion Swing Screen I use as a base for my swing screen.
Which formations you pick really depends on what you're trying to do. If you're running option, I'd highly recommend sticking with the formations where the slot WR is off the LOS. Better selection of option plays including motion options. If you're running more inside zone/PA, the formations where the slot WR is on the LOS are better because most have both iso and split zone (with read off both) and the pass concepts are better. If you're more of a pro style power/counter team, Normal Flex Wing Wk and Wing Offset Wk are the only two formations with both. Power works great in those formations IF you treat it like a sweep play and take it around the tackle. If you try to run actual power (following the BSG) it will fail miserably. I'd highly recommend Pistol Wing Trio/Slot Flex Wing instead if you're more pro power/counter and/or Slot F Wing if you're more 21/12 personnel.
Best Passing: Normal Flex Wing Wk
Best Running: Normal Flex Wing Wk
Best Overall: Normal Offset Wk (Solely because of that PA Bubble)
@TXHusker05 mad thorough. I'm trying to get away from being so triple option focused and develop more of a passing game and rely on a downhill run. I'm thinking IZ, OZ, counter, ZR, and then QB blast, power, and wrap. Basing my passing game on stick, flood, smash, and cross.
So right now I've been brainstorming and rough drafting a playbook that's mostly inline gun 10 and 11 personnel with a couple 12 personnel sets and then corresponding pistol sets. But I love wing trips offset (pistol) and as I've recruited a bunch of tight ends I want to include some H-back stuff.
Trying to marry what I perceive as Air Raid and H-back concepts for a sophisticated but not over-complicated big-body spread.
I'm also trying to get away from being so two-back focused and use more one-back.
Definitely going to include Empty Wing trio. Thinking I need another empty set with it. Empty TE trips or Empty spread or quads. Idk
What I have written down right now:
Pistol: full house, strong, strong slot, weak slot, ace, twins, twin tight slot, trips, wing trips offset, y trips, trips 4-wide, spread
Gun: ace, twins, twin te slot, normal, normal wk, normal Y-flex, spread, spread flex, spread flex weak, trips, trips weak, trips open, wing trips offset
I could probably add normal flex wing weak and normal offset weak, and wing trio offset.
I just don't want to neuter my passing options because of additions of certain running foils. I definitely like jet and PA jet. So many options in seeking philosophic purity while using a lot of formations.
If like to add the other two pistol H formations:
Pistol Normal Flex Wing and Wing Trips are golden. The flanker screens in both formations are what QB coaches call "turn & rip it" plays - they allow you to throw the ball as soon as you catch the snap. This means the screens hit faster than another other in the game because the QB has 0 footwork other than turning to the receiver.
This pair of formations also have all your downhill runs, PA slide that works off the slice block, and the Hank variant of curls (curl/flat plus a settle in the middle).
Wing Trips has one of my favorite plays, rollout smash. This combined with the screens and playaction make this a great constraint formation for aggressive run defenses.
The flood concepts in both formations can be turned into shallow cross with a few hot routes.
Motion the H back to the slot for more passing options via hot routes.
Jacksonville State broke a record last year for single game rushing yards in NCAA history using these two formations exclusively.
Pistol Slot Flex Wing is great and I actually use it to create "Army Throwback" in Malzahn's offense.
Just flip the formation (if your QB is right handed), hot route the H-back to a wheel and then you can do whatever with the twin receivers. I prefer pivot/dig to sort of combine army throwback with little rock/NCAA (post dig). I love that play, that's one of my home run plays.
If you don't want to use option, I'd highly recommend sticking with the Pistol stuff and maybe Normal Flex Wing Wk and/or Normal Offset Wk. With Pistol you can be power/counter, sprinkle in a read here and there and still run legit bootleg play action plays and stuff like that.
So I had this cool Spread-I/air raid offense worked out in theory but it didn't translate well to practice with my current personnel. Replacing my 99 OVR (94 spd) QB Ayo Armstrong is new 99 OVR (83 spd) QB Chad Mackey (who I made left handed for fun) with a 90 OVR (79 spd) backup. And my top two backs left (graduation for the senior Ryan Reid, draft for the junior Ed Thomas), leaving Rasheed Huff (91 ovr senior) in charge. My top offensive players besides the quarterback are third-year starters at wide receiver, both designated impact guys. So I had to create an offense that utilizes their talents.
The current playbook is designated spread but is actually more one-back, if you're into splitting hairs.
ACE: Slot, Spread, Trio, Trio 4 WR, Trips, Trips 4WR, Y Trips
PISTOL: Slot, Spread, Trio, Trio 4WR, Trips, Trips 4WR, Trips Open, Y Trips
GUN: Normal, Normal HB WK, Split Offset, Spread, Spread Flex, Spread HB WK, Trips, Trips HB WK, Trips Open, Y Trips, Y Trips WK
I feel like I'm forgetting something, but I'm not sure what. It's all 10/11 except for Split Offset and I Normal (which I don't even think I've rolled-out in-game yet), and I know it's not many more formations than this. In my new conferences, Georgia is in the ACC North with Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Clemson, Georgia State and Florida State. ACCS is Florida, Miami, USF, UCF, FIU, FAU. We're 2-0 right now with 37-35 win over 79/80 OVR USF/UCF and 52-13 over 88/89 OVR South Carolina. After two early picks in the first game, Mackey threw four touchdowns and rushed for another. Huff ran for one. Against South Carolina, he threw six touchdowns and Huff ran for one and caught one. So he's got eleven touchdowns responsible against three turnovers (two picks, fumble first game). Easily my best passing start with this game on these sliders. Excited to see if we can maintain the momentum as the season progresses.
I've finally got around to really taking time and going through my offensive play book! I've gutted most of my formations down to 8-10 plays per formation. In some there are as little as 6 total plays.
At the current point I'm up to 24 formations.... The most I've ever had in any play book b4! I'm still trimming the fat and expect that number to rise. I thinking I may get as high as 30 by time I'm done.
The more I've removed... I've realized many of the plays I loved could be achieved with hot routes. Especially my 11 personnel formations. By adding normal, flex & y flex I'm able to use motion to change the formation to a more advantageous one. It's also funny the more I transition away from one back... The more I find myself using it!
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I'm pretty much doing the same thing! I'm running IZ/OZ/ read with QB power, Wrap, Blast etc.. My passing game is identical also! I'm in love with stick and mix that and the others you have in with levels and smash
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I gotta come up with something to combat 5 Qba! It's frustrating to play an entire game afraid to attempt a pass! I still don't agree with playing with 5 Qba... but whatever!
It's ridiculous when your 89 Ovr QB with 90 Thp & 83 Tha can't throw simple slants or outs! In my game last night... I had guys wide open! My QB misses by a city block directly to a safety just standing in the middle of field covering no one!
I wouldn't mind 5 QBA if it wasn't for that... It tends to always miss directly to a defender! This defender was no where near the intended receiver yet gets a gift pick!
I don't know... I'm going to try a offline dyn with the same sliders as the powerhouse dyn. If that doesn't correct some of my problems.... I'm just gonna quit playing dynasties with 5 QBA!
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