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New League Discussion

hayvis

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Reel said:
So, here it is

Baseball is not my first sport of interest. I keep trying to get into it and hockey but that's another thread for another day.

But to the uniniated, baseball sounds overwhelming af lol. My reverse development of players stemmed from my frustrations from not seeing immediate returns from my players. I get basketball or rather my understanding of it has gotten better throughout the years so the fact that I couldn't play my newly drafted no 1 pick in the majors was confusing af to me, then I thought, why tf not lol. This was probably the most fun I had if I'm being honest. Seeing y'all perplexed that I was having some success was kinda gratifying.

I would also get discouraged with the trolling that came as a result. I'm all for a good joke but one of the things that has run rampant on this site is the overkill that comes with someone being made fun of. Like after the 5th time or so, I'm like, let's move on.

Also, once my guard is up, I'm super suspicious of "advice" after that and start to question the sincerity of it.

I admitted to NML that I could've possibly mitigated a lot of things by googling but I wanted to take the "bar" approach and ask because I felt that was the best way to get advice broken down to a level where I could understand it and even that was hit or miss.

Add all this shit up with a ton of real life personal issues I was going through, trying to find 5 min felt like a chore and caused me to just fall back completely.

While I'm still very much busy these days, I'm willing to commit to this for the long term

Let's go
Click to expand...

@Reel , I can give you a stone cold guarantee that you will no longer be the shittest player in the league if you make a comeback.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Setting up my league for tutorial purposes and saw this option: Double Elimination for playoffs? Could have the first round be a standard "Sacrificial Lambship" With 5 home games for the top seeds, then go from there
 
hayvis

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
When all is said and done I think my main request is to have a live stream game of the week. Nothing would make me happier than to watch some stick men running around a screen with a Utopian struggling to see/commentate on it. immersion would be 80/80.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Something like this? (btw, tutorial manager will be named Reel E. Dracula)



It'll add another series or two (which may be more exciting) but I think it could be interesting. Everything is tweakable of course, but I think it could be fun to see every team that made the playoffs in your league en route to the title game (or something like that). The 4 seed is still in a rough spot (Could get eliminated in just 4, all away games), but the final two rounds are untouched (tweak this to Bo5 in the LCS? Drop LDS to 3 as well?) The #1 seed has, at most, 8 extra games to play, so it's not too absurd imo, though I wouldn't mind a second all-home series in the LDS either.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
jdlikewhoa said:
Didn’t having a rookie league break the game?
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The problem when we initiated rookie league is that was before international complexes. So you just had all of these 16-19 yo guys just sitting on A rosters.

I'd opt out of Rookie League if it was optional. I barely have enough players to field my A/AA/AAA teams. Some (like reel life) are just pure filler.

The only thing that would be interesting is if those 16-19 yo's in your IC would develop better playing in rookie league vs. staying in IC.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Actually I guess Bo3s for the first two rounds makes the most sense. Win 4 games and you're in the LCS game (and then back to normal Bo7 into Bo7 for the title), Lose 4 games and you are out. It also gives wiggle room for 1 seeds who lose since they can always get revenge on a lower seed who beats them in the smaller Bo3 format in a full Bo7 series.

Right now our playoffs have a potential for 21 whole games. With a double elim setup with Bo3s, a team that gets knocked down to the lower bracket then goes on to win the title would play a max of 23 games. With BO5s in the LDS instead, then that number only goes back up to 25 if losing round 1, or 27 if losing round 2.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Yankee151 said:
Setting up my league for tutorial purposes and saw this option: Double Elimination for playoffs? Could have the first round be a standard "Sacrificial Lambship" With 5 home games for the top seeds, then go from there
Click to expand...
OR.... what if we had a double-elimation regional round for teams 4-7 a la the NCAA for the final playoff spot.

So schedule would be:
Day 1: Opening round 4v7 (G1) 5v6 (G2)
Day 2: Losers play (G3 - elimination game), Winners play (G4)
Day 3: Winner of G3 v Loser of G4 (G5 - elimination game)
Day 4: Winner of G4 v Winner of G5 (G6) then another if the team with no losses loses:
Day 5: Game 7 winner take all
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
I think you can only modify so much with double elimination, so it probably wouldn't work. We could do a play-in with 4-5 in each league in single elim though, like MLB.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Just throwing stuff out there. I think our current system is fine but if people want to change it I'd rather keep the same number of teams involved and do something like double elim rather than 2 teams per league
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
Karl Hungus said:
1. Starting over seems drastic. There's no guarantee that we won't start shedding owners within a few months, and my immersion would go down the tubes if that happened in a new league that I'm not invested in
Click to expand...

This is where I don’t agree - of course there’s a risk that all the new owners bolt, but how does that leave the league any different than it is now?

There’s also, ya know, the chance that we properly support them and they stay?
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Yankee151 said:
Just throwing stuff out there. I think our current system is fine but if people want to change it I'd rather keep the same number of teams involved and do something like double elim rather than 2 teams per league
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I think we could expand the playoffs, make finishing higher more valuable AND make the playoffs quicker with a new system. I just think the current system means teams stop caring sooner in the regular season. It also means the difference between seeds isn't important. If it was, we'd see more trading.
 
Orlando

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
NML said:
This is where I don’t agree - of course there’s a risk that all the new owners bolt, but how does that leave the league any different than it is now?
Click to expand...
Well at that point I have to imagine things would be worse than now. There is also the possibility old owners bolt.
 
Orlando

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
doh said:
I think we could expand the playoffs, make finishing higher more valuable AND make the playoffs quicker with a new system. I just think the current system means teams stop caring sooner in the regular season. It also means the difference between seeds isn't important. If it was, we'd see more trading.
Click to expand...
I don’t think this last statement is true.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
One (minor) problem of starting a new league is player gen in the first 10 or so seasons: Another worldwide league (I quit if not) takes time to even out so all the players aren't from the home country, and of course there's the 42 year old GOATs that spawn at the start.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Anyone who doesn't think this isn't the highest form of Drama possible needs to WAKE UP



Budapest just barely missing out on their second chance against Krakow, Sofia battling through the lower bracket to win the championship, this format has it all!
 
Mr. Radpants

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
So...
  • New league: Kills current immersion for current owners. There might be some talent saturation issues in our current league, as evidenced by lack of trades? New uniforms would be cool tho. Get to work @Orlando!
  • New owners: good and necessary but they've all quit multiple times already. But, OU :love:
  • Stats only: This makes the game exponentially harder for everyone, especially new players. I don't see it.
  • Draft lottery: worst teams might not get top picks, don't see how this helps noobs and just seems frustrating, but I hate draft lotteries in general.
  • More tutorials for new owners: good, although the league has always helped new owners, and this accusation while people were helping @hayvis is annoying
  • Double elimination post season: lol
  • Killing IFA: I've always been anti-IFA but I don't think it's a problem now that we expanded the pool. Anyone, including small market teams, can make an investment here currently. Killing IFA raises the value of draft picks. It's basically just draft/trades/FA. Scouting discoveries will surge to compensate talent levels.
Anyway, I don't think the league is broken and I think most issues are fixed with a full league of owners.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Mr. Radpants said:
So...
  • New league: Kills current immersion for current owners. There might be some talent saturation issues in our current league, as evidenced by lack of trades? New uniforms would be cool tho. Get to work @Orlando!
  • New owners: good and necessary but they've all quit multiple times already. But, OU :love:
  • Stats only: This makes the game exponentially harder for everyone, especially new players. I don't see it.
  • Draft lottery: worst teams might not get top picks, don't see how this helps noobs and just seems frustrating, but I hate draft lotteries in general.
  • More tutorials for new owners: good, although the league has always helped new owners, and this accusation while people were helping @hayvis is annoying
  • Double elimination post season: lol
  • Killing IFA: I've always been anti-IFA but I don't think it's a problem now that we expanded the pool. Anyone, including small market teams, can make an investment here currently. Killing IFA raises the value of draft picks. It's basically just draft/trades/FA. Scouting discoveries will surge to compensate talent levels.
Anyway, I don't think the league is broken and I think most issues are fixed with a full league of owners.
Click to expand...
Other than the grave wound you've put towards my double elim hopes, I agree with most of this. Honestly, IFA can be fixed by just capping it at a hard cap, I think?
 
Mr. Radpants

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
What's wrong with IFA? I've lost the plot on that. Is it creating too much talent?

I hated IFA when the pool was smaller, because the large markets would eat up all the talent.
 
hayvis

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Mr. Radpants said:
So...
  • New league: Kills current immersion for current owners. There might be some talent saturation issues in our current league, as evidenced by lack of trades? New uniforms would be cool tho. Get to work @Orlando!
  • New owners: good and necessary but they've all quit multiple times already. But, OU :love:
  • Stats only: This makes the game exponentially harder for everyone, especially new players. I don't see it.
  • Draft lottery: worst teams might not get top picks, don't see how this helps noobs and just seems frustrating, but I hate draft lotteries in general.
  • More tutorials for new owners: good, although the league has always helped new owners, and this accusation while people were helping @hayvis is annoying
  • Double elimination post season: lol
  • Killing IFA: I've always been anti-IFA but I don't think it's a problem now that we expanded the pool. Anyone, including small market teams, can make an investment here currently. Killing IFA raises the value of draft picks. It's basically just draft/trades/FA. Scouting discoveries will surge to compensate talent levels.
Anyway, I don't think the league is broken and I think most issues are fixed with a full league of owners.
Click to expand...

I'm in full agreement. Keep everything the same, but I think we should spend more time asking people on this forum whether they have 5 minutes a day. Maybe we should recruit more people to ask more people. Just a thought.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Mr. Radpants said:
What's wrong with IFA? I've lost the plot on that. Is it creating too much talent?

I hated IFA when the pool was smaller, because the large markets would eat up all the talent.
Click to expand...
My only concern is more to do with budget, because larger budget teams drop 30M on it every other year. A hard cap (can be set at anything we want) would help the smaller teams be competitive. I think as a tool to provide alternative talent from the draft it does its job well.

Yes large markets don't have as much of a share now as opposed to when it was smaller, but they are still getting the top guys with consistency
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
IFA doesn’t work because it’s inconsistent from version to version, and as the O’s have said, it’s incredibly difficult to maintain a current talent level because of that
 
Orlando

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
Yankee151 said:
My only concern is more to do with budget, because larger budget teams drop 30M on it every other year. A hard cap (can be set at anything we want) would help the smaller teams be competitive. I think as a tool to provide alternative talent from the draft it does its job well.

Yes large markets don't have as much of a share now as opposed to when it was smaller, but they are still getting the top guys with consistency
Click to expand...
In general I think we should avoid solutions that the game can’t handle.
 
ZackMills

ZackMills

Have mercy
Looks to me there is enough interest to have pool of players "own" a team and a pool of players GM a team. No more lifetime contracts for decision makers! GM carousels!
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Yankee151 said:
Yes large markets don't have as much of a share now as opposed to when it was smaller, but they are still getting the top guys with consistency
Click to expand...
I thought markets were off/even? Budgets are just based off of how well your team does?
 
Orlando

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
It would be nice to get new or returning owners in here saying why they want to play and what is appealing about a new league vs the old one.
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Orlando said:
It would be nice to get new or returning owners in here saying why they want to play and what is appealing about a new league vs the old one.
Click to expand...
Yeah I would like specifically to hear why a new league is necessary. @Reel had a good post explaining his problems with the old setup and I think with tweaks and tutorials the current WBL could satisfy most if not all of those things without requiring a new league altogether.
 
hayvis

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Orlando said:
It would be nice to get new or returning owners in here saying why they want to play and what is appealing about a new league vs the old one.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly new and very open to change. I love playing the game, but as a part time baseball fan I think it could be more fun by being more accessible and having more gimmicks/live events, to promote more real life social interaction (which is the most fun bit for me). Part of me thinks a new league would help all of these things by breaking up a small clique and opening the world up. I like playing the game enough to bow down to the status quo, and am aware that my status is not able to hold any sway anyway, so in the end I will go with whatever. But I will always try to disrupt and stir up the shit, as since this thread started, it's the most fun I've had with the game. It's given everyone a much needed kick up the arse.
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Orlando said:
It would be nice to get new or returning owners in here saying why they want to play and what is appealing about a new league vs the old one.
Click to expand...

Honestly I’m open to either but I’d rather stay with the WBL if possible. I do know enough from our first league that sometimes a new league is necessary. I don’t think new owners wanting a new league is a good enough reason but it wouldn’t deter me. For a new league to be necessary there would need to be something broke that is not easily fixed by just changing a integer on the backend and simming forward. That’s just IMO of course.
 
Orlando

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
hayvis said:
I'm fairly new and very open to change. I love playing the game, but as a part time baseball fan I think it could be more fun by being more accessible and having more gimmicks/live events, to promote more real life social interaction (which is the most fun bit for me). Part of me thinks a new league would help all of these things by breaking up a small clique and opening the world up. I like playing the game enough to bow down to the status quo, and am aware that my status is not able to hold any sway anyway, so in the end I will go with whatever. But I will always try to disrupt and stir up the shit, as since this thread started, it's the most fun I've had with the game. It's given everyone a much needed kick up the arse.
Click to expand...
:laughing: I think we’ve heard from you
 
hayvis

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
OU11 said:
Honestly I’m open to either but I’d rather stay with the WBL if possible. I do know enough from our first league that sometimes a new league is necessary. I don’t think new owners wanting a new league is a good enough reason but it wouldn’t deter me. For a new league to be necessary there would need to be something broke that is not easily fixed by just changing a integer on the backend and simming forward. That’s just IMO of course.
Click to expand...

I'm think @NML was on board with the fact that you could tweak and sim forward effectively creating a new old league. Not sure but pretty sure. I thought we were now referring to this method as a "new league". I'm fucking confused most of the time, though....
 
Yankee151

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
I just think the Venn Diagram of "New features that New Owners would benefit from/rejoin because of" and "Things only a new league can do" isn't enough overlap to justify a brand new one. These are some of the things mentioned:
  • Tutorials for new players, Veteran GMs helping New ones
  • More Owners to help with trading/Lack of AI Unbalance
  • AI Teams sign FA to induce more scarcity to help with trading (if needed bc not full with owners)
  • IFA hard capped or removed
  • Revenue Sharing increased/Parachute payment of cash for new owners
  • Live Sims, Game of the Week, Live Drafts
  • Draft Grades, Forum posts, etc.
  • New/Relocated teams, uniforms
None of this is exclusive to a new league in the slightest, so why do so in the first place? Give it a few seasons of implmenting these changes in the WBL and if the new owners like it then we're good to go. Furthermore, there's no guarantees a new league is balanced player pool wise, I'll explain this when I go over my 8~ year sim tutorial but there's always going to be imbalance.
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
NML said:
IFA doesn’t work because it’s inconsistent from version to version, and as the O’s have said, it’s incredibly difficult to maintain a current talent level because of that
Click to expand...

This is my view on it. I like the idea of it more than I actually like it
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
hayvis said:
I'm think @NML was on board with the fact that you could tweak and sim forward effectively creating a new old league. Not sure but pretty sure. I thought we were now referring to this method as a "new league". I'm fucking confused most of the time, though....
Click to expand...

I’ve been out of the loop so if that is what a new league is then I’m definitely good either way
 
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