Employees vs. Student-Athletes

[PSUEagle]

Just wanted to point out that even at the DII/DIII level football players easily exceed the 20 hour limit that the NCAA arbitrarily imposed years ago. And this is at level of football where no more than 5,000 fans will show up at a given contest, not to mention the fact that the carrot of a possible future NFL career doesn't apply to 98% of these kids. There's just no getting around the fact that football requires a much greater commitment than something like volleyball/lacrosse.

And for the record, I agree with the article 100%. The whole "student athlete" concept vis a vis football and basketball players is a farce, and I'm glad that the general public at large seems to finally be waking up to that reality.

 

[fsuprime]

LOL @ Zeek's idea. Still, that would be going back to the early days of organized footbaw, when college teams actually DID play professional teams (and often won - being generally better organized, coached, and yes...funded, than the fledgling professional teams, which were more akin to circus acts than the hyper-augmented professional teams of today.

Question for the big baseball fans here (since I'm only a casual fan at best) - if a hotshot high school player is coveted by both the major league teams as well as colleges who would gladly award him a scholie for his services - which direction do they generally go?

I would imagine that the same decision process for 18-year old hotshot pitchers would hold true for 18-year old hotshot quarterbacks if the NFL had a true minor league/farm system. Well-off kids from middle class backgrounds would likely opt to suit up for a university team, while kids from poorer backgrounds would probably opt for the (perceived) quicker path to getting paid.

The sure fire kids go 95% of the time. Some kids truly want to play college ball though even as guaranteed 1st rounder.

Many kids go pro even in 20th round because college is not an option as there is not enough scholarships for everyone. Most college baseball kids r on 1/4 schollies or somshit.
This obviously affects minorities more, GJGE title 9 lulz.


I do not really count baseball up there with football and basketball like mak does.


Fuck u title 9

 

[GuyIncognito]

Mmm...

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Jim Brown is not a fan of the NCAA, a truth he made more than evident Saturday at the Pro Football Hall of Fame Fan Fest.

"The NCAA is probably the most reprehensible organization God ever created," the Hall of Fame running back said at a roundtable discussion on the NFL with Barry Sanders and Harry Carson on his right and host Larry King on his left. "Total exploitation. The kind of money they make, the kind of life they live, it's embarrassing."

The comment came in response to a question from a fan about why a player with a career-ending injury in college could not receive a payment to compensate for lost future income.

Brown said the NCAA is pretentious when it says it is "doing things for the young people."

"I'm totally for change and total change," Brown said. "And I think that body needs to be torn apart and put back together with everybody's best interests in mind."

Brown said what he said with a definite purpose.

"I wanted to say it as harsh as I could, because I want them to come at me in any way they want to," Brown said. "Because it's a shame the way that it happens."

http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=10877754&type=story

 

[DeadMan]

Along those lines, shit like this disgusts me: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...dical-bills-one-foundation-tries-to-fill-void

Want to take a great positive step towards helping student-athletes, NCAA? Mandate that colleges provide medical care for shit like this.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Yeah, I think that's an easy one and would be a good PR move to boot. Most college football players pay a lifelong toll for their efforts.

 

[DeadMan]

The problem is in the implementation, though. Is it possible for schools to provide healthcare for the rest of their athlete's lives? That's probably prohibitively expensive. If you go the route of only paying for injuries that the athletes got when playing for them, do you just go with just injuries sustained at the time of playing? What about the guy who needs two knee replacements at 50? It's probably because he played football, soccer, or whatever in college, but you can't know for sure.

Of course, questions like that are why the NCAA is supposed to exist, so they should just figure it out.

 

[worst2first]

Insurance companies deal with those questions all the time. They could set it up so that an independent evaluation is made to determine if the injury or condition was a direct result of playing college football. The programs have medical files on athletes. Those files should be transferred to the NCAA (or other entity tasked with this) and maintained for future reference. The athletes and former athletes should have full access to their files at any time and an appeal process if they disagree with the evaluation of an injury or condition.

 

[DeadMan]

Here's an interesting take on this debate. Thought it was worth sharing: http://mgoblog.com/content/way-forward

The bottom line is that the author is proposing degrees in sports. He's comparing it to a music degree, which makes some sense to me.

Let them graduate in their field, with a liberal arts distribution attached. Test them when they arrive and when they leave to make sure you're doing a good job of educating them. I'd much rather be affiliated with a university that takes kids with some academic questions and turns them into the guys I've met than one that snootily says "not you" because of things outside that kid's control.

Was curious on others thoughts about this.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Don't many schools already essentially have that, with degrees in sports administration/management? Or is he talking about a setup where they don't go to class at all (i.e. where football practice = class time)?

If he's talking about replacing class requirements with football practice, then I think it's a step in the right direction which, for me, is the eventual decoupling of academics and big money athletics. I think the fundamental question that needs to be answered is why football should be considered an academic pursuit at all. There's no reason for it, and I feel like those types of solutions end up being ad hoc rationalizations.

The NCAA ain't gonna go for this though, because it's a step toward acknowledging that these guys shouldn't be in school in the first place.

Plus, I'm just going to go out on a limb and guess that students in the music program are absolutely free to make as much money as they can from their craft, no?

How is the NCAA going to justify imposing its repressive restrictions on something that it will be recognizing as a legitimate academic pursuit?

 

[DeadMan]

I think he's talking about a set up where you can get a degree in football or sport performance that comes from playing football. There would have to be a way for athletes to also do other degrees, because some athletes want to do that, too. But yeah, the essential bit is that football practice would be class time.

Of course the NCAA won't go for it, but I thought it was worth discussing.

 

[Karl Hungus]

I really like that idea of comparing it to the performing arts degrees. It's surprising that no one has thought of it before.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I think he's talking about a set up where you can get a degree in football or sport performance that comes from playing football. There would have to be a way for athletes to also do other degrees, because some athletes want to do that, too. But yeah, the essential bit is that football practice would be class time.

Of course the NCAA won't go for it, but I thought it was worth discussing.

Haha, yeah, it'd be a LOT of class time. Probably the most involved degree in the university. That'd be fun.

But yeah, I think the biggest hurdle to an idea like that is any effort to legitimize football as something more than an "amateur" hobby is going to be shot down by the NCAA, because that designation is the entire basis for their control.

But as a purely academic (ha) discussion, I wouldn't have any problem with this. I agree that I don't really see much distinction between a degree in music and a degree in football.

 

[GuyIncognito]

It'd certainly be more honest. Even the eggheads who want to do something else (let's call them dual-degree students) will spend FAR more time on the field and in the weight room than they will working on their pre-med or engineering degree.

 

[TXHusker05]

I like it, call it an Athletics Major. Put it in the Department of Arts & Sciences or Liberal Arts. Make sure they fulfill the basic liberal arts courses required for a BA like any other student would have to, but the individual courses that make up the major can be fulfilled by football or basketball or whatever the sport is. If the minimum credit hours for an Athletics Major is 36, have each season of participation count as 9 hours. Maybe require a minor (~18 hours/6 courses) in an actual academic field such as Political Science or Communications or whatever the student-athlete wanted.

If a player leaves the team or transfers, the credit hours would be accredited and apply just as a typical academic course would. I assume this would only apply to scholarship athletes. Walk-ons would still probably have to enroll into an actual academic degree program. I suppose if an athlete wanted, they could elect to major in an academic program as well and minor in athletics.

I'm sure the academic community (and NCAA) would flip out at this but I agree that majoring in Athletics would be no different than a major in Performing Arts. At the very least, I think athletes should be able to minor in Athletics, with each semester on a team counting as 3 credit hours. It wouldn't be much, but it would give athletes as many as 30 credit hours of minors/electives that they otherwise wouldn't have to take in a traditional academic setting. For a typical 120 hour degree, that leaves just 90 hours of actual academic work which should help ease the fairly intense workload of a student-athlete.

 

[DeadMan]

The other positive is that it would make the term student-athlete less disingenuous.

 

[BasinBictory]

Really - I find it amazing that a school hasn't explored this option already. Playing a sport very much is akin to a performing arts major, and I would be very interested to see how the NCAA would treat an athlete who was majoring in Performance Athletics.

 

[JSU Zack]

I've heard of a few schools offering degrees in coaching.

Btw, I made the connection between music majors and athletes a few pages back. JSU has an internationally known music program, and we have many musicians who march on Saturdays and perform with regional orchestras for money on Sundays.

 

[BasinBictory]

Right. An nobody bats an eye if a marching band member gets paid to play in informal gigs at clubs or more formally as a member of a philharmonic - heck, they probably actively encourage and promote just that. If a theater major lands a contract to do Geico commercials, the school is probably thrilled for him/her.

I think the whole debate over the student-athlete farce is rooted in racism, or at least classism. Generally speaking, a student who comes to college for the express purpose of learning an artistic craft such as music or acting comes from at least the middle class, and thus "fits in" with the image that a typical university's administration (and alumni base) sees in themselves. This is generally NOT true of students who come to college for the express purpose of playing sports, especially so for basketball and football, which are the biggest moneymakers for the school. Essentially, old white men with notions of scholars in robes being able to quote from classics were uncomfortable with the idea that rough-edged young men from the working classes (and often of the opaque persuasion) would be equals with their high-bred sons and more so if they were paid mercenaries making a mockery of the idea that they were there for intellectual/academic pursuits.

 

[JAR201166]

Just let them all take a cut of money from the ncaa video games make one for all the sports!

 

[Wooly]

We need to re-institute slavery. These players should be property of the school in perpetuity.

 

[BasinBictory]

We need to re-institute slavery. These players should be property of the school in perpetuity.

 

[Mame YO]

Not sure where to put this, but this thread seems appropriate.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/01/us/concussion-lawsuit-high-school-football/index.html?c=us&page=1

@GuyIncognito how would this work? If you participated in HS sports in a state where the class action is filed, you can sign up?

i never thought about it much before, but thinking back on it we didn't have any concussion protocol at all and that was 2005-06.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I can't tell you about the prospects of the suit, but I don't support it. I went to HS the same years as the plaintiff, and I suffered my share of concussions too, but I don't see where liability attaches to the athletic association. First off, people just didn't know as much back then. I mean it wasn't like the old days when they'd tell you to tape an aspirin to it or whatever, but CTE was a completely alien concept.

My parents and I knew more about this than the OSSAA or my HS coaching staff, and the fact that I kept playing (even went back into a game I can't now remember after taking a knee in the side of the head) is my problem. It was our choice and we should bear the consequences of that choice.

I don't like lawsuits that have as their foundation the assertion that someone else owes you an obligation to keep you from doing something stupid of your own volition, though I will say that argument has more legs the earlier you go. I still think HS athletes are or should be aware enough of the risks involved in concussions that their continued participation amounts to a waiver.

And I think most HS kids/staffs ARE aware of the risks at this point, and I really don't like suing in the name of a reform that's already been made. It just seems like a money grab then.

 

[Mame YO]

I'd argue that by the time I played coaches knew, but you heard about concussions at the beginning of the season and that was basically it. At a certain point, you can't expect every 15 year old kid joining footbaw in his freshman year to understand the risk, and so to me high school sports certainly have an obligation to make that risk clear and to put proper protocol in place.

 

[GuyIncognito]

That's where the last half of my post comes in though, I think those protocols ARE in place for the most part. This lawsuit is arguing they should have been in place 15 years ago, but to me there's something inherently untoward about using current knowledge to demand past reforms, as well as something untoward about suing nominally in furtherance of reforms that have already been made.

Plus, what the fuck are the damages? They're just trying to force a settlement, because I don't know what price tag to put on a few thousand of my brain cells.

I think the parents and the coaches are more culpable than the athletic association itself, personally.

 

[Mame YO]

Morally I think it does come down to coaches and parents. Like I said, when I played coaches knew - they just didn't care. And I'm 100% sure of that. My dad played in HS so he certainly knew about getting his bell rung but he didn't know about the science behind the dangers of concussions like we do now, so I guess he's guilty of ignorance more than anything on that front...

And when I was a kid, I didn't think twice about it. I didn't understand the dangers, no one really made an effort to make any of us aware, etc. Looking back on it it certainly seems like they all failed us. I understand you can't expect anyone to do anything if they don't know, and maybe you're old enough that people really didn't know - but that wasn't the case in my experience. Corches just wanted to win and the rest of it was pansy crap.

Where does the line get drawn?

 

[Travis7401]

People have always known that football is a dangerous sport, and those who choose to play football (and parents who let their kids play) make that choice willingly and knowing sports carry inherent risks (every football sign up sheet I've ever seen contains a very explicit description of the risks associated with the sport, as they are currently known). Now as it turns out, those risks were worse than we thought they were at the time, but that's really news to everyone at this point. But even with the risks as known in the 1990s, I went to school with plenty of kids who had parents that wouldn't let them play football. That was a family choice. I say let each kid/parents draw that line for themselves. I mean the risks of football, even with our increased understanding of CTE/concussions, are no greater than the risks of bike riding.... are you going to let your kid ride a bike? Will you make them wear a helmet? If you keep your kid from playing football or riding bikes or doing anything that might give them a concussion, what are they going to do with their free time? Sit in front of the TV playing COD and chugging dew? HMMMM

For me, the only "line" that needs to be drawn, from a legal perspective in regards to a high school sports association, is if it can be proven that the organization intentionally hid information or published misleading information regarding the risks associated with the sport. If we were to find out that the organization intentionally hid information from parents/players, then I'd say the line has been crossed and they are legally responsible. As far as coaching responsibility, there are some sadistic fucking coaches out there (I had one who would hit us on the helmet with a hockey stick when we messed up), and if they are giving the kids concussions by doing ridiculous and abusive shit, then they absolutely should be legally held responsible for that behavior. I think those are the exception, and generally speaking I think coaches try hard to be conscious of concussions, but most are out of their depth when it comes to evaluation.

From a corching perspective, as a Pee Wee and Middle school coach with no athletic trainers/team doctors around, I was given way more responsibility than I was really comfortable with in regards to evaluating player health. I don't really give a fuck about winning compared to player health/fun/enjoyment (I realize I'm probably in the minority on this, even among Pee wee coaches). I always made sure everyone had proper fitting helmets (most volunteer coaches can't even do this correctly) and we talked to the kids about what a concussion feels like and what they should do if they get hit hard in the head. Beyond that we did no full contact tackling drills in practice (freeze and fit tackle or "thud" tackling drills work better anyway) and we limited full contact scrimmaging to maybe 15 minutes per week in a confined space near the goalline (less open field running start tackles). From a coaching perspective, I think I did all the right things to help avoid concussions (mostly by practice planning) and to look for signs of concussions, but in the end there is only so much you can do to avoid them.

If I thought a kid had a concussion, and sometimes it is incredibly obvious, I immediately removed them from the game/practice and they didn't go back in. Sometimes it isn't as obvious and a kid would look normal to me and then his parents would take him to the doctor and he'd be diagnosed with a concussion. If I did suspect a concussion, I would always attempt to inform the parents and ask them to take the kid to a doctor for further evaluation, but frankly I coached a lot of poor kids and never saw 75% of the parents for the entire season. Even calls and emails go unanswered. What do you do in that situation? How am I, a volunteer coach with no medical training and no medical support, supposed to evaluate this kid and decide if he can come back and practice the next day? This is something to keep in mind if you have your own kids in youth/middle school sports, are you going to rely on the judgement of a volunteer coach who watched a 2 minute video clip about concussions?

Would I let my own kids play football at this point? I certainly wouldn't push them to play the sport, but I also think I'd have a hard time telling them no if they really wanted to play. I still think the physical benefits I received from football likely outweigh the physical harm of a couple concussions (my first concussion came riding my bike as a kid!). I would certainly be more involved as a parent (poor coach, lol) than most of the parents of kids I coached.

 

[GuyIncognito]

RE: Line drawing,

Well like I said, I think we have to talk about when a person becomes mature enough to stand up for themselves. I know when I was in HS, the couple concussions I had, if I'd have told my coaches that I couldn't play they wouldn't have called me a pussy. They'd yanked me from the game. Not for fear of getting sued or anything like that, but because most of these guys care about their kids.

And I never told my coaches about it either. I never said "I had a concussion." I'd say I took a knee in the helmet coach but I'm fine. They'd ask me what my name was and where we were and if I told them I was clear to go back in. They didn't have a computer program to compare my tests like we had in college. They had to make an assessment right there on the field. And if they'd done what these people advocate and immediately just assume every kid who gets dinged has a concussion, I'd have fought those fuckers. I never had the "knocked out, carted off" concussion, just the "everything goes black/white for a second and the next day you don't remember anything that happened" type.

This image of the scared kid trying to stay out of the game and the evil coach throwing him back in against his will isn't really accurate, at least not for me.

I want the onus put on parents and players and coaches, not on entire athletic associations. Not only because I think that's where the responsibility ultimately lies, but also because the end result of this litigation if they establish a precedent for it is the shuttering of football leagues across this country.

The state of Illinois can pay out a big settlement or judgment, but can little optimist football leagues? Can Pop Warner?

Even knowing what I know now, even with my creaky knees and repaired shoulders and thousands of lost brain cells, I wouldn't trade my football experience for anything. I'm not going to push my kids to play (assuming they're still allowed to whenever that happens), but if they want to I'm not going to prevent it either. Maybe teach them to kick, punt, and snap at least

But that's MY responsibility, not the state's.

 

[GuyIncognito]

And regarding Travis' posts, I agree about the sadists, and they do exist. But there are plenty of other legal and civil avenues to pursue against those people that don't involve class action lawsuits against the entire state-wide organization.

Hell some of those examples are flat out criminal battery.

 

[Mame YO]

@Travis7401 it sounds like you did as much as can be expected.

@GuyIncognito it's not even "evil coach sends player back in" type stuff it's some of the old school hitting drills (when I played they didn't even try to match you by size, so the larger kids made a game of crushing the smaller kids), the lack of teaching about the subject, and a lack of caring. To me if the coaches simply went over it every once and a while and paid attention to their kids (essentially what Travis describes) that's one thing, but my experience was certainly one of willful ignorance. They just didn't care about concussions. Head injuries were looked at with suspicion, not concern. I feel like the coaches I had simply said "concussions are bad m'kay?" At the beginning of the season and then left it at that. And I see why: we had such a small roster that JV was the backup varsity team. If concussions were thought of more seriously, the football program at my HS might not have even existed.

And that sucks, because I have memories of my own that I cherish, but I do feel like I was never really aware of the reel dangers until later in life as an adult.

 

[Southpaw]

Destroyed

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Just came here to post that. So good.

 

[Reel]

i posted it in the Anything thread

 

[Reel]

that Alabama hot tub/jacuzzi was nice

 

[bruin228]

Lol, loved the Leach bit in there.

 

[Lightningwar]

I love how the people making the money in this scam get all indignant when it is suggested the people who are not getting paid recieve compensation. Dabo Dabo do wants us to believe he will quit a several million dollar a year gig if his players are allowed to make money off their performance. Sure sure just like Jim Delaney is going to turn the B1G into an into the NAIA if players are allowed to receive some of the millions the conference generates.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I've never really felt anything about Dabo Swinney, but now I hate that fucker.

To make his salary to be a perennial also ran while suggesting that it's "entitlement" to argue that players should be compensated....

"I'll do something else if that's where it's going." Oh really, fuckface? Like what? You going to go make $25,000 a year coaching HS ball?

 

[CJ_24]

11. The basketball is nice, but don’t forget the real rea$on the Final Four exi$t$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Holding the Final Four in a football stadium means there are only about 12 good seats in the entire arena. But it also means it will look awesome on TV and that 70,000-plus people can buy overpriced tickets! CBS unnecessarily built a set right in the middle of one of the student sections, taking away hundreds of seats from the most important fans in the sport. But I bet it looks cool to have the court in the background for those five minutes the crew discusses the game at halftime! Holding the games on an elevated court needlessly increases the chance of player injuries and also makes it impossible for the students — who are standing two feet below — to get a good view. But it makes the game easier to see for the suits who got the best seats in the house!
Speaking of which, the Final Four is such a corporate event that if you were to talk on your LG smartphone via AT&T wireless service and throw your Capital One credit card through the window of a Buick Enclave, I guarantee you’d hit someone eating Buffalo Wild Wings in a Coke Zero T-shirt. I know this is nothing new, but it’s worth remembering that the people running the show don’t give a single shit about the basketball at the Final Four. They care about the money, the money, the money, the money, and the money (in that order). But, you know, all that stuff about “student-athletes” and amateurism and WHERE WOULD THE MONEY TO PAY THEM EVEN COME FROM???

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/n...-spartans-kentucky-wildcats-wisconsin-baders/

 

[Reel]

damn...Bomani podcast with Sonny Vaccaro

dope convo about college bb

starts around 15min

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=12634352

 

[Packfan]

Simon Cvijanović @IlliniSi · 1h1 hour ago
The @NCAA doesn't care, the @BigTenNetwork doesn't care, and the @Illinois_Alma doesn't care #followthemoney

Simon Cvijanović @IlliniSi · 1h1 hour ago
Coaches think they're doctors but haven't even played 10% as much as I have @coachbeckman #47yearscoach lol

Simon Cvijanović @IlliniSi · 2h2 hours ago
I'm not the only horror story of abuse and misuse of power by @coachbeckman

Simon Cvijanović @IlliniSi · 2h2 hours ago
4 years starting, big ten media day rep, two time game MVP (Cinci'13/Minn'14), and "Simon's a quitter"-@coachbeckman

Simon Cvijanović @IlliniSi · 2h2 hours ago
I didn't want this to get out because I love my school. But they seem to not care @Illinois_Alma @IlliniAthletics @coachbeckman #Illini

Simon Cvijanović @IlliniSi · 2h2 hours ago
I met w @coachbeckman this Friday and was kicked out of his office cuz he couldn't answer y I wasn't invited to the senior banquet.

 

[Ander1345]

Shrug.

I don't read too much into the Simon thing because his brother is still enrolled. Yes, there was an issue with the AT not being licensed in Illinois, but that was just a mistake when neither side took the time to ensure he was licensed.

This story sounds like sour grapes. This kid talks about be forced to play through pain but then also boasts about how much better he was than the backups. The school let him finish his scholarship, but there's no way he'd be allowed to travel to the bowl game. Why would he even think that?

The very act of playing football is abuse. This just seems like a case of suffering didn't get me what I wanted so poo on you. Also, he was getting destroyed in the OSU game anyway lol.

 

[Ander1345]

From twitter....

"Coach Beckman is the Kim Jong Un of football."

Come on kid, like he'll ever have that much power over people.

 

[Packfan]

Millines, who was dismissed from the team for an unspecified violation of team rules in 2013, said Wednesday on his Twitter account (@TruSoulja15) that Beckman isolated him from the team after he took time off to visit his father, who had been diagnosed with cancer.
“Beckman made it very hard for me to go home and see my dad,” the Florida native tweeted. “I returned to campus and was made to feel by the coaching staff that I had hurt and let my team down.”
Millines said he was separated from his teammates after violating a team rule, with his locker being moved to a separate area he called a “downstairs bathroom/locker room.”

Former Illini defensive back Nick North’s family said Tuesday that the medical staff misdiagnosed his knee injury and Beckman “harassed him” by frequently trying to make him sign a release from his scholarship. Another player anonymously told the Tribune, confirming an incident first alleged by Cvijanovic, that Beckman physically attacked another player at a practice.
Former Toledo players tweeted Monday that Beckman had mistreated players when he coached there from 2009 to 2011, during which time he compiled a 21-16 record.

The Tribune reported Wednesday that former Toledo offensive lineman Kyle Cameron, once a highly ranked recruit who was Beckman’s first Toledo commitment, sued Beckman and others in 2013, alleging negligence and a violation of the state’s hazing law. The case was dismissed but Cameron’s lawyers have asked the Supreme Court of Ohio to review it. Cameron alleged that he was permanently injured at a summer freshman workout and later declared medically disqualified for football.

I believe that is 5 former players at this point. Time to cut bait with Beckman, he was barely successful at Toledo and is now 12 & 25 at Illinois.

 

[Lightningwar]

Think about the power these coaches have that they all remained silent until one finally spoke up?

 

[Ander1345]

The player who sued Beckman at Toledo was like injured during a hazing incident. Can't put the blame on Beckman alone for that if at all.

Nick North didn't play when he was healthy. Scholarship attrition is not an issue. Why keep you on scholarship if you aren't competing for playing time when you're healthy? Asking players to sign scholarship release isn't some terrible secret.

Kenny Knight was fighting with another teammate and Beckman had to physically restrain him. This is the most damning accusation, because it's the only thing Beckman could've done that is actual abuse.


Simon alleges his meniscus was taken out without his knowledge. Not even a doctor who literally bled orange and blue would do this and risk their entire livelihood on one average player on a terrible team.

That being said *STUDENTS SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE A INDEPENDENT PHYSICIAN!!!*

Millines DID let the team down. New coach new rules sorry bud. Sometimes you get a new boss. Going to school far from home can make it difficult to see family when you're being expected to contribute.

People say don't defend Beckman cuz he's bad. Fuck him I'm mot defending him cuz I think he's good. I'm defending him because this does not add up.

Every Illini aligning with Simon is a Zook holdover, and Zook let them get away with everything.

 

[DeadMan]

The player who sued Beckman at Toledo was like injured during a hazing incident. Can't put the blame on Beckman alone for that if at all.

Nick North didn't play when he was healthy. Scholarship attrition is not an issue. Why keep you on scholarship if you aren't competing for playing time when you're healthy? Asking players to sign scholarship release isn't some terrible secret.

Kenny Knight was fighting with another teammate and Beckman had to physically restrain him. This is the most damning accusation, because it's the only thing Beckman could've done that is actual abuse.


Simon alleges his meniscus was taken out without his knowledge. Not even a doctor who literally bled orange and blue would do this and risk their entire livelihood on one average player on a terrible team.

That being said *STUDENTS SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE A INDEPENDENT PHYSICIAN!!!*

Millines DID let the team down. New coach new rules sorry bud. Sometimes you get a new boss. Going to school far from home can make it difficult to see family when you're being expected to contribute.

People say don't defend Beckman cuz he's bad. Fuck him I'm mot defending him cuz I think he's good. I'm defending him because this does not add up.

Every Illini aligning with Simon is a Zook holdover, and Zook let them get away with everything.

Wow.

 

[Travis7401]

lol

 

[Ander1345]

Shrug.

Football is a tough sport. I wouldn't hold anything against Simon if that's why he walked away. But he complained about being urged to play through injury, while boasting about how much better he was than the backups, taking bowl rewards despite not being on the team, basically saying he wouldn't of said anything if he would've been invited to the senior banquet.

Any valid message gets lost in the inconsistencies. Sorry I don't feel bad for every player who doesn't make it.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I'm so glad I went to a program where shit like this didn't happen.

I was a walk on. I played because I wanted to, not because I had to. At that meant I could quit the second it wasn't fun anymore or I wanted to do something else.

But if I'd needed to play, and if our program had been one of these shitholes, I can't imagine the pressures in trying to cope with it. And if I'd had to deal with that, and I'd gone public, everybody would have said he's just a POS walk-on who's unhappy riding the bench. Pussy.

That's bullshit. Some of these guys desperately need that scholarship, and will literally get themselves killed trying to keep it. Sure they're old enough to have some responsibility for standing up for themselves, but they shouldn't be in that situation in the first place. These coaches are basically God in the lives of these players, and they're paid millions of dollars. Not being a sadist fucking scumbag is not too much to ask and shouldn't be defended in any sense.

 

[bruin228]

Adam James isn't making any accusations so the stuff against Beckman is prolly true

CJK5H