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Conference Excretion Thread

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
There was the same rumor about Colorado like a month or two ago. No one is rejoining that shitshow.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
Nebraska likes where they are, and they are not going back. There is no point to going back.
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
The Big XII is so messed up. And the longer it takes the crazier the ideas become.

Yesterday someone said "There's no way university presidents want BYU." Today I read that Texas and OU are working with each other to get the votes needed for Houston and BYU. Meanwhile OU's Corch says no way he wants Houston.

I'm so sad that I so desperately want BYU to be part of this cluster of a conference.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
I hope BYU gets in. It would be good for both sides. Houston and BYU makes the most sense to me anyway. Yeah, it might dilute the money a little, but this conference has bigger issues than immediate payout amounts. The Big XII also needs a little more quality, so that their conference gets more benefit of the doubt from voters and TV market share. If they want any chance of increasing their brand (and you can argue they can't), they will have to get a few more quality teams (or contract way down to like the best 8 teams). They need highly regarded teams playing each other to get ratings and respect, and everything else follows. BYU and Houston can help that a little. There is virtually no one else left, out side of the P5 conferences, that can do that for the Big XII. If BYU and Houston can't do that, then the conference is doomed to a position behind the other power conferences, but above the rest. Why not take a chance. If some of the smaller programs don't like it, Texas, TTU, OU, and OSU can (and should) tell the other schools they are leaving them. No reason to stay in that mess any longer. Get busy trying to fix it, or get busy looking for a different conference.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
The problem is still trying to get the requisite number of Big 12 schools to agree to expand, let alone which schools to get. BYU and Houston (and Cincinnati and UCF) are decent options in various areas or another, but none of them are must haves.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
You make a good point, but that is why the 4 major schools should get together and force the issue (Texas, TTU, OU, and OSU). Either they force the other schools to accept BYU and Houston, or they break off. Yes, you can say that there are bylaws and grants of rights that make it impossible, etc. However, the law never got in the way of money before, and it won't now. It can be done. You may have to bribe or coerce some schools (through the legislature especially), you may have to litigate, but if Texas, TTU, OU, and OSU want it bad enough, they can do it. ISU, Kansas, KSU, they have no real power in this situation. Baylor and TCU have a little, but not a lot, and in the end they will do what they are told by the State of Texas.

A conference of Texas, TTU, Oklahoma, OSU, Houston, TCU, Baylor, and BYU is a conference that is good enough to be a power conference. Now throw in two other teams as fodder so the top schools don't all beat themselves, and you have a good 10 team conference. It's as good as the ACC. Hell, just make it WVU and Cincy as the other two teams if you want, and it's a nice conference. Have a CCG with 10 teams and call the NCAAs bluff in court, because they won't win. Voila, you now have a conference with a chance at making it. Your welcome Big XII, my resume for Conference Commissioner is in the mail.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Big 12 CCG was already approved and will happen next year unless something changes, even if they don't expand, which it looks like they won't. This conference is stupid. Everyone wants basically the same thing but has a different way of getting there. I think in the end, no expansion will take place at least for the foreseeable future, and once the GOR is close to being up, several schools, OU probably being the first, will attempt to leave and the Big 12 in its current form will die. It sucks because there needs to be a power conference in the middle of the country but it doesn't seem to be in the cards, at least right now. I just want the original Big 12 back.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
Big 12 CCG was already approved and will happen next year unless something changes, even if they don't expand, which it looks like they won't. This conference is stupid. Everyone wants basically the same thing but has a different way of getting there. I think in the end, no expansion will take place at least for the foreseeable future, and once the GOR is close to being up, several schools, OU probably being the first, will attempt to leave and the Big 12 in its current form will die. It sucks because there needs to be a power conference in the middle of the country but it doesn't seem to be in the cards, at least right now. I just want the original Big 12 back.

Didn't know CCG was granted already. If I am OU and Texas, I don't wait. Why wait? Fight it now. Try for what you want. Either try and save the conference, or try and get out. I wonder if you can manipulate the GOR contracts by reducing the conference to less than 6 teams. Don't you have to have at least 6 teams to have a conf by NCAA rules? If the 4 Texas teams and OU & OSU agreed to leave, would that nullify the Big XII as a conference, and would they be able to successfully get their GOR back?
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I think under the Big 12's various contracts that it would take 8 schools leaving to dissolve the conference immediately, just like it takes 8 to reach any other decision including expansion, otherwise anyone trying to leave would have to contest the GOR. So if expansion isn't happening, then the schools have to look at their post-Big 12 options. OU and Texas have their choice of any conference that would want them. Kansas basketball attracts a huge following, and KU is a good school, so that makes them a good option for any conference as well, although not as a primary option, as football is the big driver for realignment. Everyone else is basically at the mercy of Texas mainly, and OU after that. Baylor is all but fucked if the Big 12 dissolves, and they should never have been in a power conference to begin with. The other schools are not without their own positive attributes, but they'd work better as complements to OU and/or Texas or Kansas.
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Yeah KU is still the interesting one for me just because of basketball implications if the B12 dissolves. Geographically they're in a weird spot where only the American would make sense, or going independent in FB and joining the Big East. But if they joined the PAC or SEC with OU or Texas it could work I guess.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
They aren't leaving over BYU
Nor should they.

They do need something better than what they have though. They need a better home if they want to keep their brand and programs on top. That means changing the conference or leaving it. Status quo loses ground every year it seems. They are becoming a second teir P5 conf.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Becoming? They already are. We've seen that unless OU or Texas wins the conference, it's treated as a 2nd tier conference.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
I would watch a conference with match ups with these teams:
Texas
TTU
TCU
Houston
Baylor
Oklahoma
OSU
BYU
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Those 8 plus the rest of the Big 12 is not a bad athletic conference, or at least a pretty decent one in football most years, but there's more to this than just footbaw prowess.

We also have to remember that Houston would have to raise their admission requirements for atholetes if they were admitted to the Big 12, which would surely affect their recruiting and thus their success on the field.
 

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
Fox Sports President Eric Shanks: “We don’t think expansion in the Big 12 is a good idea for the conference. We think it will be dilutive to the product in the short term. In the long term, it’s probably harmful to the future of the conference."

Excuse me? BYU/Houston/Cinci would dilute a conference that already has Kansas/Iowa State/Texas Tech? Give me a fucking break.
 

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
Those 8 plus the rest of the Big 12 is not a bad athletic conference, or at least a pretty decent one in football most years, but there's more to this than just footbaw prowess.

We also have to remember that Houston would have to raise their admission requirements for atholetes if they were admitted to the Big 12, which would surely affect their recruiting and thus their success on the field.

You know what else would effect recruiting? Being in a P5 conference. :cool:

Seriously, we heard the same "wait until they have to raise their admissions standards" BS prior to joining the SWC. I think we did ok.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Big 12 will call candidates between 4 and 5 pm to inform them of their decision. BYUtv is live streaming the meeting and supposedly Cincinnati media members will be attending.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
You know what else would effect recruiting? Being in a P5 conference. :cool:

Seriously, we heard the same "wait until they have to raise their admissions standards" BS prior to joining the SWC. I think we did ok.

I think Houston would be fine because they're in one of the most talent-rich areas in the country. Maybe not right away, but eventually (see TCU in the Big 12). Then again, no one else benefits from having Houston in a P5 conference.
 

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
I think Houston would be fine because they're in one of the most talent-rich areas in the country. Maybe not right away, but eventually (see TCU in the Big 12). Then again, no one else benefits from having Houston in a P5 conference.

Imo, everyone in the Big XII would benefit from having a member the 4th largest city in the country. I guess we'll see.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I meant recruiting-wise, although I'm not sure TV markets are that big a factor going forward with the amount of cord-cutting going on.
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
My guess has been that they will say nothing for now because they are negotiating the higher payout with ESPN and Fox. There's not enough time to finalize that, so it would be dumb to shut the door in case they can't agree with those networks.

But I didn't know BYUtv was showing it. That seems interesting if. We've seen the Big XII go into meeting with everyone assuming one thing and the opposite happens before. So maybe it's all been a red herring and some teams are more in the know about what's really happening than we think?

Should be interesting. And by interesting I mean a train wreck no matter what.
 

Lightningwar

Administrator
Until the Longhorn Network is dealt with by the conference. Expansion seems like a band aid. OU wants to leave, Okie State probably follows them. Replaced by BYU, Cinci, Houston, or ??
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Chip Brown saying multiple sources saying no expansion. Not clear if that means tabled for further study or that ESPN/Fox bought them off and it's truly off the table for a bit. UT and TT presidents have already left, which is not what you'd expect if they were announcing invitees.

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Renegade

Charge on!
ISU President left saying, "I've got a university to run." Since he knows ISU will be the last team selected for the P4, I'd have to think he wanted expansion and is pissed to have had his time wasted. This has been a complete amateur process from the B12 from the public statements, the consultants, presentations by the interested schools, announcing a cut list like it's sorority bid day, and then ultimately not expanding at all. It makes the Big East look like it was well-run.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
David Boren has done a lot for OU, but he's really fucked up some shit these last ~5 years, since he tried to get OU and OSU in the Pac-12 and made it sound like a DONE DEAL before the Pac presidents said no. Egg on his face this time, too, since he started all this expansion talk and it's not happening.
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
Sports Illustrated reporting that the Big XII will not expand at this time. Expansion not completely off the table while they try to renegotiate their TV deal. This should officially mean this thread will go on hiatus for 8 years or so when things should start heating up again with TV deals running out.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I guess now it's just negotiations to see who will have a spot in the Power 4 conferences when the Big 12's GoR is up or close to being up (2025). Anyone not named Texas, Oklahoma, and possibly Kansas should be pretty nervous.
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
I guess now it's just negotiations to see who will have a spot in the Power 4 conferences when the Big 12's GoR is up or close to being up (2025). Anyone not named Texas, Oklahoma, and possibly Kansas should be pretty nervous.

This is the reason not expanding didn't make sense to me. I would have thought that having more teams would make the conference stronger in case any more teams left. As I posted before, the remaining teams plus the expansion teams wouldn't be too shabby of a conference. Maybe not P4 level, but in name at least better than the other non-P4s. Perhaps they all think they will be part of the P4 when/if that happens? Or maybe I'm just not smart enough and I'm missing something? But right now it looks like the presidents were only looking at $$$ and how much they can make right now. Do they not realize they are the laughing stock of the other P5s? Do they not realize how tenuous their situation is and they need to be more forward thinking? Oh well, they got what they wanted. And who knows what TV and college football will look like when the GoR is up.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Eh, not expanding now doesn't mean that the schools left behind can't get together in 2022 or whatever and try to create a new new Big 12 with whomever they want. I guess it depends on who leaves. I'm still not sure how that will happen, if it even does.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Can't wait for the P4 with teams from fucking Texas and Oklahoma in conferences titled Pacific-12 and Atlantic Coast or playing teams from Ann Arbor, Michigan and Evanston, Illinois. Sure, it makes no sense at all but DA BRANDZ and $$$$$$!
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Letting Texas have so much power and sway in the formation of the Big 12 is probably the biggest seed of the conference's current situation. While it did knock Nebraska down a peg or two (hooray), there was no need for 4 schools from the same damned state to be added to the Big 8. Texas and Texas A&M were sufficient. Baylor sure as hell had no business being in a power conference and they still don't. Should have just gone with UT and A&M to get to 10 and waited until the landscape started changing, like when the Big East started unraveling.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Eh, not expanding now doesn't mean that the schools left behind can't get together in 2022 or whatever and try to create a new new Big 12 with whomever they want. I guess it depends on who leaves. I'm still not sure how that will happen, if it even does.

They have failed to learn from the Big East. The Big East had the same thought, "oh, the CUSA schools will always be there if we need them." But then when the Big East lost some schools, it was too late and because they had to backfill with non-BCS schools, they were no longer considered to be a BCS-caliber league. On the other hand, if they were forward thinking and had expanded to 12 back in that 2009-ish range, they'd have had 12 schools that were considered BCS schools when they got raided. They might still be part of the Power conferences had they done that and only needed to add back 1 or 2 schools instead of 5+.

The Big 12 is the same way. If they added 4 schools now, those schools would have nearly a decade to build up and become part of the power 5 club, and when/if UT and OU bolt, they'd still have 10-12 P5 teams. No one questions TCU or Utah as a member of the P5 now, and in 2-3 years, no one would question the expansion candidates either.

This is the reason not expanding didn't make sense to me. I would have thought that having more teams would make the conference stronger in case any more teams left. As I posted before, the remaining teams plus the expansion teams wouldn't be too shabby of a conference. Maybe not P4 level, but in name at least better than the other non-P4s. Perhaps they all think they will be part of the P4 when/if that happens? Or maybe I'm just not smart enough and I'm missing something? But right now it looks like the presidents were only looking at $$$ and how much they can make right now. Do they not realize they are the laughing stock of the other P5s? Do they not realize how tenuous their situation is and they need to be more forward thinking? Oh well, they got what they wanted. And who knows what TV and college football will look like when the GoR is up.

There's schools like Baylor, K-State, Iowa State, and Texas Tech that are afraid that if they invite schools from bigger markets who might eclipse them over time, that they'll get left out of the P4. It's a numbers game, and right now, there'd be only 1 Big 12 school left out of the P4 if they went to 4x16, if you assume that Notre Dame joins the ACC in that scenario. If ND is still allowed to be an independent, then all 10 B12 schools would presume they would get into the P4 over any G5 candidates, so there's a big disincentive to add schools into that mix and screw yourself in 8 years.

Personally, I think conferences are skeptical of the 16-team set-up and will stick to 14, except maybe the Pac-12, who needs help with the Pac-12 Network and would probably go to 16 to get their market situation fixed for viewership. In that case, you assume UT, OU, KU, and one of TT/TCU/OSU to the Pac-16.

That leaves 6 teams in the Big 12, wishing they had already added 4 teams to be standing at 10 after the raid and then only needing to add 2 additional teams to go back to 12. Instead, they'll end up needing 6 teams, and everyone will just decide that it's a G6 conference because they're now mostly G5 teams who just got called up. It's very short-sighted on the part of the B12.
 
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Renegade

Charge on!
Well, we don't know the full details right now, but I don't think this was entirely up to the Big 12 schools.

Sure it was, the TV partners were mandated to pay up. I think what we'll find out at some point is that ESPN+Fox upped the per team payout in exchange for taking out the expansion payment "pro rata" clause.

Then again, ESPN left the Big East sleeping with the fishes for turning down ESPN's proposed expansion and TV package (adding TCU and UCF for a 10 team deal and re-upping at ~$10m per team). Big East decided to spend a bunch of time debating Villanova FB and then believing they could get more $$$ on the market, so ESPN engineered Pitt + Cuse to the ACC to put an end to the Big East as a power conference. Good job by Judy Genshaft, who was a major proponent of Villanova instead of adding UCF, and sided with the basketball schools against BE expansion.

So I think the B12 is right to be scared of the TV partners, at the same time, with the GOR and such, it'd be much harder to engineer a short-term raid of the B12 by another conference.
 
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