UConn gonna have to fight hard for that last ACC spot with WVU when it comes time. Fuck you @MtneerManiac @Bmack!
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Conference Excretion Thread
- Thread starter Hachiko
- Start date
Renegade
Charge on!
Nah, not unless FSU goes somewhere and Miami is weak at the time. Even then, is be skeptical, because while UCF would be in the middle tier of the B12 academically, we'd be bottom tier in the ACC. Just a result of the age of the institution in our case, but it is what it is.
What is this fuck shit?
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Don't see any of those schools leaving now with an ACC network on the way.
Lightningwar
Administrator
ACC would be wise to get a Houston or TCU for those big markets as the 2nd spot.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
So I've been thinking what a good conference would be of the best non-P5 teams plus Big XII teams I think could get left out of super conferences. And no, I didn't take the time to picture the superconferences to try and figure out who in the P5 would still be included. I know that some of these teams may still be included in P4. But I named 12 because I think any 10 of this group still makes a pretty good conference.
I left out teams far east figuring that UCF, USF, Memphis, etc could do the same thing on the east coast. And I left SDSU out because I see BYU kind of leading the charge on this and SDSU has been pretty crappy to BYU since BYU left the MWC. So I don't see them getting along very well.
Boise State
BYU
Air Force
Colorado State
Kansas State
Iowa State
Texas Tech
Houston
Baylor
Utah State
Cincinnati
TCU
Anyway, I doubt I'll think about it very much more. My actual prediction is that something happens before 2024 and Oklahoma's presumed ditching of the Big XII. Oklahoma may still leave, but I have a feeling things will happen earlier than we think that will set off another set of dominos.
I left out teams far east figuring that UCF, USF, Memphis, etc could do the same thing on the east coast. And I left SDSU out because I see BYU kind of leading the charge on this and SDSU has been pretty crappy to BYU since BYU left the MWC. So I don't see them getting along very well.
Boise State
BYU
Air Force
Colorado State
Kansas State
Iowa State
Texas Tech
Houston
Baylor
Utah State
Cincinnati
TCU
Anyway, I doubt I'll think about it very much more. My actual prediction is that something happens before 2024 and Oklahoma's presumed ditching of the Big XII. Oklahoma may still leave, but I have a feeling things will happen earlier than we think that will set off another set of dominos.
Renegade
Charge on!
It won't be BYU leading it. It will be the leftovers from the Big 12 inviting schools to join the Big 12...same thing as the remnants of the Big East. It won't be a new conference, just a continuance of the Big 12 as a non-power conference, not much different from the current AAC. Those Big 12 schools that are left are nothing with the Big 12's power conference branding. They will struggle to fill their stadiums, get a bad TV deal, struggle to recruit consistently, and then be discounted for complaining that they're being given piss and told it's water.
That conference @jamesnathan is envisioning is way better than the AAC, though.
Renegade
Charge on!
Well Cincinnati wouldn't be in it, but it's marginally better. It'd have a shit TV deal with a bunch of flyover mountain states, and the former Big 12 teams would suck. ISU and KSU would be MAC level; Baylor drops to SMU level. TCU sustains only of they keep their coaching staff, otherwise they're Tulsa. Either way, it's not a power conference and will find itself as a G6 conference.
I also think you'd have New Mexico and UNLV over Utah State and Cincinnati. No incentive for Cincinnati to pay to leave and join another G6 conference that is geographically western.
Simo77
Well-Known Member
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
"Quashing any conversation that the Big 12 is 'dysfunctional'" LOL. Like the rest of the country can't see that.
MtneerManiac
Burning Couches
I'm not worried about getting left out of whatever super conferences form, because I don't really see any way we do.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Oh, I agree. I never once said it would be P5 worthy. But I do think it would be the strongest (at least in name) of the G6. And if you're being left out, it's kind of all you get.
Cincinnati, I'll admit, was a bit of a pipe dream. Perhaps SMU would be more realistic. I think, and this is just me, that BYU would really like to be with Utah State. I considered UNLV since you'd get their bowl game. But man do they suck. So I was hoping they go for more competitive teams. If you're going to make a new conference, you got to do everything you can to make sure your champ is included in the playoffs when they expand or at least the NY6.
Also, having lived through the 16-team WAC, if we do go to superconferences part of me thinks it would last around a decade. Now I know the SEC would have a better TV deal than the WAC had at that time, my expectation is that several teams would be unhappy and you could get some breakoffs forming a new conference and everything becomes smaller again. Am I way off on this, though? I'd be in my 60s by that time.
coogrfan
Well-Known Member
Interesting, if true:
My understanding is that UT actually fought hard for (Houston). They ditched Cincy at the end and with OU pitched the football only deal with BYU and UH as a last ditch effort. The votes were not there. Particularly when ESPN started its own campaign to pay $ not to expand.
I am told that deal had seven votes, but the Kansas and Iowa schools would not budge. This was the "bold deal" the W.Va. prez was talking about Sat.
We would have gotten a lower payment, but basketball would have gotten several Big XII games a year in a scheduling deal. No vote except on football matters. Guaranteed full membership at renewal of tv contracts.
Kansas three would not budge. Big XII took less $ but safe offer from ESPN.
My understanding is that UT actually fought hard for (Houston). They ditched Cincy at the end and with OU pitched the football only deal with BYU and UH as a last ditch effort. The votes were not there. Particularly when ESPN started its own campaign to pay $ not to expand.
I am told that deal had seven votes, but the Kansas and Iowa schools would not budge. This was the "bold deal" the W.Va. prez was talking about Sat.
We would have gotten a lower payment, but basketball would have gotten several Big XII games a year in a scheduling deal. No vote except on football matters. Guaranteed full membership at renewal of tv contracts.
Kansas three would not budge. Big XII took less $ but safe offer from ESPN.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
It'd be hilarious if the Big 12 let the GOR expire and none of the other conferences added any of the schools. What then? Dumbasses.
Renegade
Charge on!
The Big 12 re-ups its TV contract and continues forward as a P5 conference. I don't know that it's wholly unrealistic, just because as long as Texas can keep the LHN, they're willing to consider staying, but it does seem somewhat unlikely.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
A marginal P5 conference, behind the others in money and on the field, especially after the Big Ten and SEC get their gigantic new TV contracts. Some media members are already relegating the Big 12 down to that margin. The problem was there was no guarantee that any of the candidates would end up benefiting the Big 12 in all areas long term and put them on the same level as the other P5s. We'll see how ESPN and FOX feel about paying for a lame duck conference for almost another decade, and whether or not they can "persuade" one or more of the other P5s to take on some Big 12 schools and kill the conference, because at the moment it seems that no other major conference is all that concerned with expanding.
Simo77
Well-Known Member
Notre Dame ain't walking through that door. And anyone else that brings a guarantee has long since had their payday. So if that was what they wanted they should have started and ended discussions about 60 seconds apart, 12 months ago. I think they can guarantee that the product would at worst be the same with just about any of those candidates. But most likely slightly improved.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I agree, they either should have just accepted their place as the lowest rung among the P5s and expanded by 2 to 4 schools with the likes of BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, and UConn or whatever for relative strength in numbers and validation of a league title game, or they could have avoided this whole farce and dismissed expansion all together, even disregarding the bribes from ESPN and FOX to remain as is. To make it seem like they were seriously considering expansion and then voting it down made the Big 12 even more of a joke, although for schools in the conference who are confident of their value and place in another P4 conference that may have been what they were after from the beginning to destabilize the conference and hasten its end. We probably won't know for at least a couple of years the agendas of the various schools with options elsewhere.
coogrfan
Well-Known Member
That's exactly the sort of thinking that allowed Louisville to slip thru your fingers.
coogrfan
Well-Known Member
Lack of Big 12 expansion shows who really holds the power in college football.
Expansion could have at least been one last gambit that could have stalled or detoured what seems like the inevitable. Instead, we got our answer to the question we posed a few months ago of “who is really in control here?” The answer isn’t Oklahoma or Texas or anyone else in the Big 12, it’s ESPN and Fox. Coming out publicly against Big 12 expansion was a major power play by Fox and ESPN, but when you have all the power already, what do you really have to lose?
Expansion could have at least been one last gambit that could have stalled or detoured what seems like the inevitable. Instead, we got our answer to the question we posed a few months ago of “who is really in control here?” The answer isn’t Oklahoma or Texas or anyone else in the Big 12, it’s ESPN and Fox. Coming out publicly against Big 12 expansion was a major power play by Fox and ESPN, but when you have all the power already, what do you really have to lose?
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
OU and a couple others wanted them. The Texas schools didn't. Another reason why Houston would have been a net loss for the conference in general: giving UT a bigger voting block against everyone else in the conference.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Big 12 won't split into divisions to decide championship game participants
Will pit #1 vs. #2. Die in an AIDS fire, Big 12.
Will pit #1 vs. #2. Die in an AIDS fire, Big 12.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I don't really like conferences big enough to be split into divisions either, but a conference that has round robin scheduling has no need to play a championship game. This is dumber than divisions.
coogrfan
Well-Known Member
Is it?
What happens if you have a situation where #1 and #2 have locked up their spots in the CCG and then they wind up facing off in the final game of the regular season? Would either coach play his starters? Or would they treat it like the last week of the NFL preseason?
And if anyone thinks this is far fetched, just take a look at the current standings and then check out the schedule for week 15.
Morons.
Lightningwar
Administrator
I honestly think this is the best way to do it for all conferences. The ACC for like 7 years straight the conference championship game has been played in Oct when FSU and Clemson meet. The winner of that game plays a few more conference games, including the ACCCG. But the ACCCG is just a formality. The winner of that game wins the conference. This year will be different due to Lamar Jackson mucking things up. Without divisions they would meet again. Yeah, it sucks for the team who won the regular season game. But it makes a lot more sense than FSU playing Duke in 2013. And sleeping their way through a 30 point beat down.
Brick
Well-Known Member
First of all, conference championship games are fucking stupid, period. Rematches are fucking stupid. The Big XII as it exists now is perfect with the round robin. They were just too stupid to name Baylor the outright champion two years ago. And the media is just too fucking stupid to understand it's the best, fairest way to guarantee the team with the best season wins the title most years. And if some years a bunch of 6-3 dipshits tie for first? Fine, flip a coin or have a random tiebreaker. No one really deserves it anyway.
With the CCG and split divisions, a shitty or mediocre team that is literally 5th or worse in the overall conference standings can win the championship. The divisions are a joke. Do you remember those Mizzou SEC East teams? I would much rather see two of the best teams in the league play each other two weeks in a row. It's just as fun to laugh at, but is significantly less stupid then divisions.
Snorky's Shame
Well-Known Member
Old news but surprisingly has not been brought up yet.
Liberty moves up to FBS as an independent.
They'll probably independent for a while, I don't see a fit as the Sun Belt has already said no.
Liberty moves up to FBS as an independent.
They'll probably independent for a while, I don't see a fit as the Sun Belt has already said no.
Renegade
Charge on!
What will be funny is the Sun Belt teams whoring themselves out for a Liberty buy-game payday. Liberty is considerably more ready for FBS than Coastal Carolina and probably half of the Sun Belt's existing programs. Pure bias on the part of the SBC to bypass them.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Baylor should be in FCS.
Renegade
Charge on!
They're fully accredited. The Sun Belt isn't exactly the Ivy League. There's no difference in the academic quality between Liberty and UL-Monroe, or between Liberty's online classes and Troy's online classes.
Hmmm, except one of those schools teaches creationism and is full of teachers who think the Earth is 6,000 years old. I'll let you guess which one.
Oh, they also hired Baylor's former AD who enjoys ignoring rape for footbawl. So they can eat shit and die.
Oh, they also hired Baylor's former AD who enjoys ignoring rape for footbawl. So they can eat shit and die.
Renegade
Charge on!
They don't teach creationism in science class. They couldn't get accredited if they did, and they have a medical school to boot, where you certainly can't teach that. I don't really see much difference between Liberty and BYU, other than BYU is nationally ranked with its quality in business school and some other fields, mostly from being a lot older. I'm not trying to claim Liberty is a great institution, it's not. Everything says it's very mediocre, but that's no different from most other SBC schools.
Renegade
Charge on!
Yeah, they're teaching that as part of their religion curriculum essentially. And yeah, it's a joke. But when you go take Biology, they are not teaching creationism. I'd wager most religious universities have some class where creationism is taught, but it's not a science class if they're accredited.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
I never once heard creationism taught at BYU. I only took the general ed science classes, but my cousins who took more science talked to me about it a bit. We know what we believe, and we think there's room for both in this life. Science class was science class. Religion might be brought up here and there as it applies, but we never questioned or denied the science of something. At least, that was my experience.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Damn straight!
killerBsaturn
Touchdown Jesus
Liberty and BYU are both 10,000 x better than BC.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
Damn straighter!
Renegade
Charge on!
Lot of talk about Wichita State joining the American. It would even up the basketball side at 12 teams and put the American in a good position for 4-5 bids most years. Wichita got hosed again this year, and the seeding seems to indicate that they might be in the NIT had they lost to Illinois State (who did get overlooked) in the MVC final, so Wichita is very much looking at moving up from the MVC.
There's also been a rumor of the AAC looking at VCU and Dayton as well, but the focus seems to be on only adding one team right now, and Wichita is the most likely to make the jump.
Regardless, the Committee has really been favoring mediocre P5/Big East teams over high-performing teams from conferences that used to consistently get multiple bids like the A-10, MVC, and Mountain West.
There's also been a rumor of the AAC looking at VCU and Dayton as well, but the focus seems to be on only adding one team right now, and Wichita is the most likely to make the jump.
Regardless, the Committee has really been favoring mediocre P5/Big East teams over high-performing teams from conferences that used to consistently get multiple bids like the A-10, MVC, and Mountain West.