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2014/15 NBA Thread pelican and okc bitches
- Thread starter NML
- Start date
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
What hahahaha
They sold a second round pick for cash instead of drafting someone who won't make the roster.
What's so hard to understand about that
They've sold picks before to acquire other players. Stop it
How does that work? A second doesnt take a roster spot so I'm curious
Does it not take up a spot if they actually make the team?
Well if theyre good enough to make the team i dont think its too bad of a return. That's personal preference though, id rather have a young guy good enough to make the team instead of a vet if it's the 15th roster spot
They should draft players that will make the roster
Well again, it depends on the team and their direction. Not trolling the sizers, but those second round picks may actually pan out for them because they may actually see the court with somewhat decent minutes
The pels aren't in that position and feel they can get proven talent without waiting for the chance that a second round pick to develop
Their only second round pick to actually make the roster and actually see playing time was Darius Miller who, if he is still on the opening day roster, I think will actually contribute really good back up minutes under Gentry's play style. I want to also add Jeff whithey, but iirc, they acquired him via draft day trade but neither patric young, Russ Smith, or the guard from Baylor suit up in a game for them. Both Smith and the Baylor guard are no longer with the team. I think they hope young can contribute this season when they decide to go small
NML
Well-Known Member
Selling a pick is awful. They can gloss it up however they want, but it's just a way to help owners on the bottom line. Routinely, the teams who sell are small market and just need to make ends meet. It doesn't help them with the salary in any way.
In fact, 2nd round picks have the best contracts in the NBA. They are non-guaranteed and the league minimum. Even if we assume a great haul - let's say $1.5m - it's not going to be a huge difference, because they still have to fill the roster. If they try to bring in an experienced vet for the minimum, like OU suggested, it's almost a wash. The oldest vet minimum is around $1.8m I think. League minimum is 500k + 1.5m and its close.
But again, the real issue is that for the team itself (and the fans), there is no tangible evidence.
For reference, the team with the most sold picks by a large margin is the Timberwolves - clearly a model of great roster building.
In fact, 2nd round picks have the best contracts in the NBA. They are non-guaranteed and the league minimum. Even if we assume a great haul - let's say $1.5m - it's not going to be a huge difference, because they still have to fill the roster. If they try to bring in an experienced vet for the minimum, like OU suggested, it's almost a wash. The oldest vet minimum is around $1.8m I think. League minimum is 500k + 1.5m and its close.
But again, the real issue is that for the team itself (and the fans), there is no tangible evidence.
For reference, the team with the most sold picks by a large margin is the Timberwolves - clearly a model of great roster building.
Of course you disagree lol
I'm not trying to argue nml, really I'm not, but you are comparing what the pels have done to Minnesota.
One of the most recent times the pels sold a pick, they flipped that to sign Gustavo ayon, who they then flipped to get Ryan Anderson, and when healthy, he's been a steal for the production they've gotten from him.
I would rather them sell the pick instead of waste it on someone who will either
a) won't make the team
b) get buried in the d-league
c) bust
Idc how much of a financial bargain they are getting with the pick, those three things I named are far more likely than that pick making some all NBA rookie first team or having any significant impact in their first three years.
Idk why y'all get so hung up on unproven guys vs proven veterans who you have years of data on to come to a conclusion of they can add anything of value to your rotation who are ready to play the day you sign them. Every team has veterans. No team has won with a title with roster full of guys under 22.
Y'all view these moves in a vacuum instead of moves that lead to other moves
I'm not trying to argue nml, really I'm not, but you are comparing what the pels have done to Minnesota.
One of the most recent times the pels sold a pick, they flipped that to sign Gustavo ayon, who they then flipped to get Ryan Anderson, and when healthy, he's been a steal for the production they've gotten from him.
I would rather them sell the pick instead of waste it on someone who will either
a) won't make the team
b) get buried in the d-league
c) bust
Idc how much of a financial bargain they are getting with the pick, those three things I named are far more likely than that pick making some all NBA rookie first team or having any significant impact in their first three years.
Idk why y'all get so hung up on unproven guys vs proven veterans who you have years of data on to come to a conclusion of they can add anything of value to your rotation who are ready to play the day you sign them. Every team has veterans. No team has won with a title with roster full of guys under 22.
Y'all view these moves in a vacuum instead of moves that lead to other moves
NML
Well-Known Member
Wrong, and that's my whole point. The NBA, the salary cap, roster spots - absolutely nothing is altered by them selling their pick or not.
Now, the team may say they used that money to sign Ayon, but again, that roster spot, that salary, it was there regardless. Selling the pick only gave the owners money - period.
There's also d) make it into the rotation. And maybe even e) become a starter.
Granted, the batting average for hits in the second round is low, but isn't it worth the risk? Especially when the other option is lining the owner's pockets?
No one made this point. My point was that you have to fill the roster and how often are the players #11 to #15 getting on the court? They definitely aren't in the playoff rotation. You could save as much as $1.3m by giving the spot to a second round pick vs a washed up vet. Ultimately, neither should have much impact on your season, but will impact your bottom line.
I was offering that as an alternative to the extremely cheap move of selling picks.
Jeffery Maier can die in a fire. Or, even worse, he can move to Cleveland.
-YTC
Just reading from the script, my man. Something has to pass the time now that the draft is over and football is still months away.
-YTC
-YTC
Yo @Reel, the most important thing is that those guys are generally cheaper right? I'm no salary cap expert but personally I'd rather the thudner sign those 2nd rounders and stash them in the dleague if they have to, bring them up when there is an open spot to see what's up. You don't want the pels to sign vets for the 10-15 spots because they're going to be cap bound soon if they aren't already. Going into the Brow's formidable years you need as much cap flexibility as possible while still maintaining a good roster. Signing vets to roam the bench isn't a great fiscal move (but a one year deal could provide a lot of tangential good in the locker room and practice). If you do sign a rotation player you're pushing an overpriced player to the third 5.
What I'm saying is selling the pick doesn't affect the cap, like leach alluded to. You can't flip that money into a player. I really really doubt the pels are losing a lot of money, and if they are I'm pretty positive that $800k or whatever isn't going to be used on a player that wasn't already in their plans. You know? I'm not trying to disparage the pels for sport, I just fail to understand why you think the way you do given the realities of financials in the NBA. I do know for sure they didn't flip the sell of a 2nd round pick for Ayon. They may have said that but those two are unrelated for common sense reasons. They could have drafted the second rounder, sent him to the dleague and still signed Ayon. It didn't make it possible.
The thudner stash 2nd and even a first round pick in the dleague all of the time and bring them up if they need them. If they pels are selling seconds so they can sign vets to the deep rotation then they're in trouble with the Brow. What they need to do is get filler for spots 11-15 and hope injuries don't slay them.
What I'm saying is selling the pick doesn't affect the cap, like leach alluded to. You can't flip that money into a player. I really really doubt the pels are losing a lot of money, and if they are I'm pretty positive that $800k or whatever isn't going to be used on a player that wasn't already in their plans. You know? I'm not trying to disparage the pels for sport, I just fail to understand why you think the way you do given the realities of financials in the NBA. I do know for sure they didn't flip the sell of a 2nd round pick for Ayon. They may have said that but those two are unrelated for common sense reasons. They could have drafted the second rounder, sent him to the dleague and still signed Ayon. It didn't make it possible.
The thudner stash 2nd and even a first round pick in the dleague all of the time and bring them up if they need them. If they pels are selling seconds so they can sign vets to the deep rotation then they're in trouble with the Brow. What they need to do is get filler for spots 11-15 and hope injuries don't slay them.
Yeah Reel this doesn't make much sense at all, the Pels are already 6th in salary at 80 million. Soon Davis is going to want big money and they will have Asik's deal coming off the books.
A young team like the Pelican's should be using those picks to build their roster and depth, not giving up. Take a flyer on a Euro guy and let him play over there for a few years.
Is Benson using the money to fund the Saints or his legal fees?
Yeah 2nd Round picks don't usually work out, but why not try and find someone like Marc Gasol, Boozer, Nick the Quick, Kukoc, Ginobili?
A young team like the Pelican's should be using those picks to build their roster and depth, not giving up. Take a flyer on a Euro guy and let him play over there for a few years.
Is Benson using the money to fund the Saints or his legal fees?
Yeah 2nd Round picks don't usually work out, but why not try and find someone like Marc Gasol, Boozer, Nick the Quick, Kukoc, Ginobili?
good points
all im saying is, they realize that drafting isnt their strong suit. The only drafted players that are still on the roster since the Demps era started are Davis and D. Miller. Everyone else has been released/traded, acquired through trade or FA.
If someone is openly admitting they arent good at evaluating young talent that needs developing in a rookie, me, personally dont see anything wrong with them signing "older" (read 24-27 aged players) to come in and compete for a roster spot. There are still other avenues to acquire cheap young talent outside of the draft. Im not as versed in the NBA salary cap situation, but I'll assume that you can still find young talent via the d-league and not still have the financial ramifications with signing someone from the 2nd round no?
Since the NOLA team returned to LA, i cant think of a year they drafted a foreigner that they didnt ultimately deal again on draft night. I honestly thought Demps' affiliation with the Spurs would've at least paid off there as he was with the Spurs when they scouted/drafted all that foreign talent, but it hasnt. His only foreign signing was Ayon.
the drop off in talent just dips so far in the NBA after the lottery, and even some of those end up busting. Then with it only being two rounds, you have to either 1) get really lucky if someone falls that was projected as a 1st rounder b/c of whatever rumors that teams get scared of, or 2) have enough picks (sixers) that you hope at least one pans out. THats not to say you cant find quality players or NBA ready players, but again, i think depending on the team and their direction, it will determine how they choose to build their roster.
Oh I get it, in the second round you're getting maybe 1 or 2 players a draft who surprise (and maybe it's 1 or 2 every few drafts) and become rotation players or starters. There are still Draymond Greens and Dejuan Blairs though. So if my GM never gets those guys then sure I want to sell them to line my pockets. What I'm saying is it most likely isn't so they can go sign a higher priced bench player later if they're close to the cap. NOLA is budgeting for Davis' contract for sure. They know generally what their future costs are and they budget accordingly. A team in the tax could sell some 2nds to offset the tax hit on the overall bottom line, but the cap is separate.
I'd just rather a team take chances, 2nd round contracts aren't guaranteed so they can be done away with whenever the team wants to. It's a very low risk way to take chances on guys.
i detect a bit of sarcasm brother OU. 1 or 2 players out of 30 isnt something to use a legit sample of finding gems in the second round. Blair was a projected 1st rounder until the issues about his ACL just became the talking point when evaluating him iirc. And I think Green projected as being too small at the time or something like that. No one saw those guys becoming the role players they did. And the only reason why some place a lot of value on 2nd round guys is b/c the draft is only 2 rounds so some dudes are bound to slide into the 2nd round by default.
while it may not cost you financially, you still have to develop that player which costs time. Now of course, the nba is a billion dollar business, so how they value time pales in comparison to say your or me, however, those are still resources that might be suited in other places
but again, now that the D-league is being pushed to the front, maybe the actual time a team spends on developing a player is significantly less than what it used to be in years past primarily b/c of the d-league.
but what do you do if no one you really covet is even available at that point on your board? You just draft b/c its your turn with not vision in sight with how this person is going to work in your system?
No sarcasm, I'd definitely pocket the cash if I was an owner from a valuation standpoint. You're right, as an owner you know you have to put 15 guys out there no matter what. You pay a 2nd round pick the minimum or you stash him in the dleague and sign someone for the minimum. So as an owner I just sell the pick as many times as I can get away with to put that extra money in my profit overall.
The point about the second round is no one sees any of them as contributors or else they'd have been picked in the first. People get overlooked because nobody thinks they can play, sometimes they prove you wrong. The player costs I'm sure are less than bringing a guy in, but maybe you have to do that anyway because most seconds are viewed as not ready until they prove otherwise.
What do you do if no one you like is on the board? Pick someone. Or trade the pick for a future second if you can (I'm sure you can, teams throw away seconds like they're nothing). If I'm building a team without interest for myself as an owner, I'm just drafting anyone who might create some value some day. If I'm an owner who needs money I'm selling it. That's all I'm saying. So it isn't a "get this money to flip for another player", it's "get this money". They're signing someone else regardless 9/10 times, they just get the money to offset the cost.
If you really think the pels are losing a lot of money then maybe that's what it is, I doubt they are though. Too bad the owners don't open the books.
Bucksin04
Well-Known Member
Waids to Cleveland. Done deal.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....pected/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....pected/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
LeBron the GM is not interested. Waids is not worth 16 million a year for 50-60 games a year.
Bucksin04
Well-Known Member
Predictions where every FA will sign: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/6/...ency-predictions-kevin-love-lamarcus-aldridge
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
You tombout brees?
Because rodgers, rapistburger, scam newton, flacco, and faggy ice all make more
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
Wow the pellys gonna resign aminu and no one else
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
and why do you care?
Dr. Shats Basoon
Closed mouths don't get fed
Blazers are probably going to lose 4 of 5 starters (5 of the top 6)
Move over Philadelphia
Move over Philadelphia
