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2014 NBA Off-Season Thread

GR8 2 B FL G8R

GR8 2 B FL G8R

Well-Known Member
Has a better deal ever been made by a team with a star with one year left on his deal? Fuck why couldn't the Hornets do this with CP30?
 
Heisman06

Heisman06

Well-Known Member
Packfan said:
Barry Jackson @flasportsbuzz
Follow
ESPN has removed Dan Le Batard from the air for 2 days;it is upset with his radio show taking out "You're Welcome LeBron"billboards inCleve.
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Why? Was it that big of a deal? It was just a publicity stunt with a hint of funny (using the comic sans font). Didn't Stephen A. get a comparable suspension for basically saying "she likely deserved to get her ass beat."
 
Heisman06

Heisman06

Well-Known Member
Also, can't wait for the CBA negotiations when Gilbert goes from one side of the table to the complete opposite. From hating super teams and basically voiding the CP3 to Lakers deal to now praying the cap spikes $20 million like some estimate with new TV deal. I kind of wish Arison would flip too and hold out to fuck them but Miami needs the cap space as much as the Cavs. He's also a better man than me.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
evil1 said:
The cap better go up about $15 million or else the Cavs are in serious trouble.

Starting in 2015, when Kyrie's and Love's extensions kick in, they will have committed $18 million to Kyrie, $24 million to Love, and $22 million to Lebron. That's $64 million for three guys. The salary cap for this upcoming season is $63 million.
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Isn't this what the Heat just did going to four straight Finals? Is that serious trouble?

They're are 1,000 ways to go over the cap in the NBA. They have two elite players and a near elite guy about to hit his prime. I think they'll get cheap vet FA.

I love the trade. Win now and all they basically gave up was Wiggins. Their first next year won't be great plus they still have the Heat 1st.
 
Packfan

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
Hearing Kevin Durant is poised to announce his withdrawal from Team USA's World Cup trip to Spain. NOT Paul George related, I'm told
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
But it isn't exactly the same as what the Heat did. First of all, Wade, LeBron and Bosh all took less than max deals to sign with Miami. None of Cleveland's big 3 have done that here (to be fair, Kyrie signed his extension before LeBron made his decision). That will result in one or two fewer quality role players that Cleveland can add.

Secondly, I think people underestimate how good Miami's organization was with regard to adding just the right quality role players. With the exception of last year, Pat Riley and Spoelstra did a very good job of getting/developing role players who fit in perfectly with what they needed to complement their big 3 (see Battier, Shane). Even if Cleveland is able to add Marion and/or Ray Allen, they still have gaping holes on the defensive end.

So it's not the exactly the same as what Miami did. It is a more expensive, less flexible version of what Miami did with a more flawed roster. If the goal is to compete for the Eastern Conference Finals, then they have done well. If the goal is to win championships, then I think they would have been better served with Wiggins, Bennett and the financial flexibility to overhall their roster 2-3 years down the line if needed.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
evil1 said:
But it isn't exactly the same as what the Heat did. First of all, Wade, LeBron and Bosh all took less than max deals to sign with Miami. None of Cleveland's big 3 have done that here (to be fair, Kyrie signed his extension before LeBron made his decision). That will result in one or two fewer quality role players that Cleveland can add.

Secondly, I think people underestimate how good Miami's organization was with regard to adding just the right quality role players. With the exception of last year, Pat Riley and Spoelstra did a very good job of getting/developing role players who fit in perfectly with what they needed to complement their big 3 (see Battier, Shane). Even if Cleveland is able to add Marion and/or Ray Allen, they still have gaping holes on the defensive end.

So it's not the exactly the same as what Miami did. It is a more expensive, less flexible version of what Miami did with a more flawed roster. If the goal is to compete for the Eastern Conference Finals, then they have done well. If the goal is to win championships, then I think they would have been better served with Wiggins, Bennett and the financial flexibility to overhall their roster 2-3 years down the line if needed.
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I can't believe people are acting like Anthony Bennett is good.

This core is also significantly younger than the Heat one was which means over time they'll improve as opposed to Wade breaking down and Bosh becoming just a 3 point shooter.
 
Packfan

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
Wait when was Wade breaking down? He is going to lead the Heat to the Finals for the next 5 years. LBJ was holding that team back with his stupid passes
 
goblue96

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
kareem.jpg
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Chase said:
Lejuan won 66 games with Delonte West and Mo Williams as his backcourt. Fuck financial flexibility.
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Isn't the point of financial flexibility to clear out space to get max stars anyways? I don't get this argument against going for Love.

So let's say the Cavs don't go after him and go for good players. You wanna pay 4/32 for Trevor Ariza or 11M/year for Loul Deng and then get some 3rd guard like Jarrett Jack or do you want Kevin Love? The Cavs already have some solid role players like Thompson, Varejao (if healthy) and Dion Waiters just scored 16 ppg. You're always going to get James Jones/Mike Miller types too if you've got a Big Three like Love/Irving/LBJ. Delly is a nice guard off the bench. I think Joe Harris might be a solid NBA player too.

Also keep in mind LeBron just won two titles on teams that had Mario Chalmers as a main cog @Reel … you can afford to have some minor holes on your team when you got the best player in the game.
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
doh said:
Isn't the point of financial flexibility to clear out space to get max stars anyways? I don't get this argument against going for Love.

So let's say the Cavs don't go after him and go for good players. You wanna pay 4/32 for Trevor Ariza or 11M/year for Loul Deng and then get some 3rd guard like Jarrett Jack or do you want Kevin Love? The Cavs already have some solid role players like Thompson, Varejao (if healthy) and Dion Waiters just scored 16 ppg. You're always going to get James Jones/Mike Miller types too if you've got a Big Three like Love/Irving/LBJ. Delly is a nice guard off the bench. I think Joe Harris might be a solid NBA player too.

Also keep in mind LeBron just won two titles on teams that had Mario Chalmers as a main cog @Reel … you can afford to have some minor holes on your team when you got the best player in the game.
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That was before he lost weight doh
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
doh said:
Isn't the point of financial flexibility to clear out space to get max stars anyways?
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No, it isn't. The point is to be able to put together the best overall team. Sometimes this means getting the max superstars but often times it means getting the key supporting cast and role players that complement the superstars. The argument here ultimately boils down to whether it is better to have three superstar players and a crappy supporting cast or two superstars and a good supporting cast.

Although they came up short this past year, Miami mainly has had very good role players over the last four years. In addition to their big 3, the Heat as a team consistently finished around the top 5 in defense every year and had guys outside of their top 3 who could nail important open shots.

Overall, the likely Cleveland supporting cast isn't nearly as good as what they previously had in Miami. Dion Waiters may actually be a slight downgrade from Mario Chalmers (it's true, look at their numbers), and Anderson Verejao, if healthy, is actually a slight downgrade from Chris Anderson based on their numbers. I like Tristan Thompson's offensive game, but he is a poor defensive player. This is problematic because Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, and Dion Waiters are also either below average defenders or horrible defenders. This isn't a minor hole. This is a huge fucking hole if your goal is the NBA Finals or bust.

Compounding this is the fact that Cleveland does not have anyone who can block shots or otherwise protect the rim. Cleveland has no one on their roster that averaged more than .6 blocks per game last year. Brendan Haywood comes closest because he blocked .8 two years ago but he missed all of last year with an injury. Cleveland is so thin at center that they will actually miss Andrew Bynum's production at the position (yes, you read that correctly). Because they will have no financial flexibility, they also likely won't be able to get any kind of significant upgrade. I think they will be forced go small ball and play significant minutes with Love at center.
 
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Bucksin04

Bucksin04

Well-Known Member
evil1 said:
No, it isn't. The point is to be able to put together the best overall team. Sometimes this means getting the max superstars but often times it means getting the key supporting cast and role players that complement the superstars. The argument here ultimately boils down to whether it is better to have three superstar players and a crappy supporting cast or two superstars and a good supporting cast.
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Cleveland is set up far better for the future than Miami was in 2010 though. The Cavs have far more young guys who can actually contribute to the team than Miami had. Bringing back Waiters/Thompson/Dellavedova/Varejao > bringing back Chalmers/Anthony/Arroyo/Haslem in terms of being set up for multiple years. Plus the Cavs still have draft picks that they can use including their own 2015 first rounder pick, a Memphis pick that is protected 1-5 and 15-30 the next two years (and top 5 protected after that), and their 2017 first rounders and beyond. They didn't have to give up multiple assets in sign and trades like Miami did to acquire Bosh and LeBron in 2010.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Bucksin04 said:
Cleveland is set up far better for the future than Miami was in 2010 though. The Cavs have far more young guys who can actually contribute to the team than Miami had. Bringing back Waiters/Thompson/Dellavedova/Varejao > bringing back Chalmers/Anthony/Arroyo/Haslem in terms of being set up for multiple years. Plus the Cavs still have draft picks that they can use including their own 2015 first rounder pick, a Memphis pick that is protected 1-5 and 15-30 the next two years (and top 5 protected after that), and their 2017 first rounders and beyond. They didn't have to give up multiple assets in sign and trades like Miami did to acquire Bosh and LeBron in 2010.
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Yeah the situations are really nothing alike. You also don't have to worry about Irving/Love contracting WAIDS and can pick up some quality picks in the future (which you CAN sign if you're over the salary cap so those are important).
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
Since we are entering beating a dead horse territory here, I will frame my comments in terms of what the Cavs need to do to improve their roster going forward instead of arguing whether they should make a trade that they are going to do anyway. IMO, the Cavs have 3 big concerns in the near future after the Love trade:
1) their defense lineup sucks
2) they are extremely thin at center
3) they have several players with questionable injury histories (aka, half their team may already have WAIDS)

Verajao is decent defensive player. He doesn't block shots but in the past he has been good at getting defensive position and cutting off the lane. LeBron of course is a top notch defensive player. Beyond those two players, I don't know if Cleveland has any other good defenders. Irving, Waiters, Thompson and Love are all either below average defenders or very weak defenders. I don't think James Jones or Mike Miller are good enough to raise the overall defensive performance of the supporting cast. IMO, the offense will come together fairly easily so this should be the new coaching staff's main focus.

The defensive issues are especially true for defending the rim. Love and Thompson rate among the worst in the NBA in terms of opponents' FG% allowed arround the rim. This isn't a big deal if the team has a defensive center who can cover for them, but the Cavs don't really have a player who can block shots and help out in this way. Additionally Verajao and Haywood both have missed significant time with injury over the last few seasons and probably cannot be counted on to play a lot of minutes. If teh Cavs cannot make a move to get more defensive help at center, I expect them to play a lot of small ball with Love at center, pack the paint defensively, and dare the other team to get in a 3 pt shooting contest with them.

Injury is also a concern. Verajao has only played more than 31 games once in the past 4 seasons (last year when he played a whopping 65 games). Brendan Haywood is 34 and missed all of last year with an injury. Kyrie Irving has missed 65 games due to injury over the last three years (not including the fact that he missed most of his only year in college due to injury). Kevin Love was healthy last year but missed a combined 91 games due to injury the previous two years. While I don't expect Kyrie and Love to miss significant amounts of time going forward, they haven't proven themselves to be particualrly durable either. I think Cleveland has a greater need for depth than most people think, not only in case their starters get injured but alos to reduce their workload so they don't get injured to begin with.
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
I remember thinking this on draft night, but is it just me or does this year's crop of rookies seem like really cool, funny guys.

 
adchester

adchester

A-1 From Day 1
Jabari Parker:
Parker was asked how he felt about his coach saying he would be one of the top five players in the league in five years. He said he didn’t believe it, because guys like LeBron and Dwyane Wade would still be around. So who does he model his game after? “Brian Scalabrine,” he said. “One of the unknown people in the NBA. He’s just grateful to be there in that situation. They can’t look at themselves as ‘Oh, I’m a superstar.’ They’re still humble. They’re still open.”
“I want to be like that.”
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WHITE MAMBA

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...-is-a-rare-breed-a-humble-high-school-phenom/
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
"Porky Pig wears a bowtie during the game, faints when Jordan yells at him in the locker room, calls for the team to forfeit at halftime even though they are facing enslavement, and pees himself. Thanks for coming out, Porky."

:laughing:
 
goblue96

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
"Jordan barely uses the Roadrunner, but, given the Tunes’ size disadvantage, they really should have attacked the Monstars by spacing the floor with speed and 3-point shooting."

Jordan the corch and GM on full display. :laughing:
 
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