Spread Offense

[bruin228]

Anybody able to hit the hb swing on stick for anything after the flat defender reroutes the stick route he flies out so fast the swing can't do anything, why'd the hell they change it from a arrow route


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I hot route every flat route to a wheel, it's not amazing but it's better. Flat routes are easily the worst routes in the game. There are still some versions of Stick that have the arrow route from the back though, I would always look for those if I were you. Same with Spot.

 

[PSUEagle]

Swings work a lot better to the field FWIW. The problem with them to the boundary is they don't bubble their route after a few steps so they end up running directly into the sideline if you try to get the ball to them quickly.

They fixed this in Madden, FWIW.

 

[CoachTuck]

Spread flex wk has the arrow


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[LEGEND]

I'm the epitome of the definition of insanity! I keep trying to get away from being spread by doing the same crap over and over! As always... here I am heading back to redo my playbook back to spread!

I have my most success with 11 personnel... But don't get the run numbers I want.

I'm thinking of using more formations but limiting the plays to 8 or less per formation. I think I try to run too many similar plays from the same looks.

How many plays are most of you guys using per formation? I was thinking 2 runs and 2 passes but increased that to 8. I'm thinking 4 & 4 or 5 passes 3 runs.

Ideas or suggestions?

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[TXHusker05]

I'm the epitome of the definition of insanity! I keep trying to get away from being spread by doing the same crap over and over! As always... here I am heading back to redo my playbook back to spread!

I have my most success with 11 personnel... But don't get the run numbers I want.

I'm thinking of using more formations but limiting the plays to 8 or less per formation. I think I try to run too many similar plays from the same looks.

How many plays are most of you guys using per formation? I was thinking 2 runs and 2 passes but increased that to 8. I'm thinking 4 & 4 or 5 passes 3 runs.

Ideas or suggestions?

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I generally go the opposite, I like having all my run concepts available out of every formation and then just adjust the formation to the defense. If you only run 1-2 concepts out of a certain formation, you're going to start running into formation tendencies against users unless they are plays you just run a few times a game. Obviously you can get around that by going more series based where the concepts are a base play, a counter to that play and a play action off that play but I'm not sure if you're looking to go more series based. If so, ask @JSU Zack for some pointers on being more series based, he's the expert around here on that.

In my case, I prefer being able to out-formation people and know that I can get to my entire offense no matter what formation I'm in. That leads to a fairly bloated playbook in terms of overall numbers, but in reality it is just a handful of concepts repeated over and over across every formation. My base Spread-I Pro playbook is 35 formations and almost 350 plays, but in reality I bet 250 of those are just repeated concepts that are in every formation. I'd say I have 12-15 plays per formation as part of my base offense and then my under center/special situation stuff has just 3-4 plays per formation.

What that means in game though is that despite having a HUGE playbook, I may spend an entire game running just a handful of those 35 formations and just few dozen of those plays. I originally started with the philosophy you're talking about, limited concepts and a streamlined playbook but found myself unable to find answers and adjust mid-game when my initial offense was stopped.

 

[JSU Zack]

You need to find 5 formations and stick to them. 15 plays per formation.

Short yardage
Three base
One long yardage.

 

[JSU Zack]

@LEGEND You want two plays to attack each type of defense and hot route/audible depending on looks.

Runs:
1 techniques - IZ/Counter Trey
3 tech - stretch/power

Passes:
Cover 1 - Verts/Outs
Cover 2 - Shallow/Mesh
Cover 3 - Spot/Smash/Dagger/Screens
Cover 4 - Mills/Screens

 

[JSU Zack]

@LEGEND What's the specific issue you're having? Would you mind PMing me your core concepts/formations. Since I'm not in any of the online leagues any more, it won't be a conflict of interest.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

@LEGEND You want two plays to attack each type of defense and hot route/audible depending on looks.

Runs:
1 techniques - IZ/Counter Trey
3 tech - stretch/power

Passes:
Cover 1 - Verts/Outs
Cover 2 - Shallow/Mesh
Cover 3 - Spot/Smash/Dagger/Screens
Cover 4 - Mills/Screens

Are you still doing the UC oneback prostyle thing or have you gone back to the spread?

 

[LEGEND]

Are you still doing the UC oneback prostyle thing or have you gone back to the spread?

Going back to spread for the most part! I'm thinking of mixing the two together...

I think my issue is... I tend to lean too heavily one way or another. Example... If I'm under center pro... Then all my formations are only under center. Then I end up going to the same areas with my passing game. So it doesn't take long to figure out what I'm doing.

I can't seem to run with any consistency either! I figured UC one back would help... But I didn't fair any better!

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[PaHsFootballRules]

@LEGEND

I would either consider myself a prostyle or 3back guy (sudo option) but in all my playbooks I have some spread sets just in case what I want to do isn't working. I have learned a lot by looking at Bill Snyder/K State film on youtube.

 

[JSU Zack]

Are you still doing the UC oneback prostyle thing or have you gone back to the spread?

It's a mix.

 

[TXHusker05]

Going back to spread for the most part! I'm thinking of mixing the two together...

I think my issue is... I tend to lean too heavily one way or another. Example... If I'm under center pro... Then all my formations are only under center. Then I end up going to the same areas with my passing game. So it doesn't take long to figure out what I'm doing.

I can't seem to run with any consistency either! I figured UC one back would help... But I didn't fair any better!

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I guess my question would be, what do you want your run game to be? Do you want to be just the really basic inside zone/outside zone stretch type of team or do you want to have a legit downhill power run game? Do you want option? What run/pass ratio do you want?

What you're describing sounds like Pistol. Taking the one back under center stuff and blending it with spread is basically how Pistol started. But if you don't want to run option and only want a really basic zone run game, then I'm not sure Pistol helps you. If you really want to go Spread, why not look at Noel Mazzone's UCLA stuff or Mike Norvell's ASU offense. Both really come from the one back under center coaching tree, but they took their stuff to the Gun.

Honestly, that's kind of where I'm headed with my Nebraska offense since I've discovered my current guards can't pull rendering my Pistol Power/Strong Power/Counter stuff completely useless. I still can keep me aggressive downhill zone run game but I get a more competent pass component.

First thing is first though, you need to decide what you want to be on offense. Even if you go full Pistol or Gun, you can still mix in some under center stuff if you wanted, but make it a special series. For example, in my Spread-I Pro I have Ace Big, Ace Bunch and Ace Slot available to me under center each with 3 plays in it. In Slot all I run is PA TE Screen, Trap and the HB Swing Screen and it works great, especially off of tempo. If you have stuff you really like under center but don't want to make a full offense out of it, make it a really limited special package of plays you go to once or twice a game.

 

[LEGEND]

I guess my question would be, what do you want your run game to be? Do you want to be just the really basic inside zone/outside zone stretch type of team or do you want to have a legit downhill power run game? Do you want option? What run/pass ratio do you want?

What you're describing sounds like Pistol. Taking the one back under center stuff and blending it with spread is basically how Pistol started. But if you don't want to run option and only want a really basic zone run game, then I'm not sure Pistol helps you. If you really want to go Spread, why not look at Noel Mazzone's UCLA stuff or Mike Norvell's ASU offense. Both really come from the one back under center coaching tree, but they took their stuff to the Gun.

Honestly, that's kind of where I'm headed with my Nebraska offense since I've discovered my current guards can't pull rendering my Pistol Power/Strong Power/Counter stuff completely useless. I still can keep me aggressive downhill zone run game but I get a more competent pass component.

First thing is first though, you need to decide what you want to be on offense. Even if you go full Pistol or Gun, you can still mix in some under center stuff if you wanted, but make it a special series. For example, in my Spread-I Pro I have Ace Big, Ace Bunch and Ace Slot available to me under center each with 3 plays in it. In Slot all I run is PA TE Screen, Trap and the HB Swing Screen and it works great, especially off of tempo. If you have stuff you really like under center but don't want to make a full offense out of it, make it a really limited special package of plays you go to once or twice a game.

I want the basic Iz/Oz! Not really particular about option. I can do with it or without. My passing game I like smash, levels, drags etc... Problem is!

Although I like those concepts... Smash is basically the only one I use.

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[TXHusker05]

I want the basic Iz/Oz! Not really particular about option. I can do with it or without. My passing game I like smash, levels, drags etc... Problem is!

Although I like those concepts... Smash is basically the only one I use.

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If I mainly ran inside zone and wanted those concepts, I'd be running a Noel Mazzone or Mike Norvell style one back spread out of offset gun formations. Just base out of Spread Flex and Trio 4WR Str/Wk. If you have a TE, you can put in Normal Offset, Y Trips Offset, Trips Offset, etc. Yank all the runs out of each formation except inside zone and maybe a counter, trap or read option and then plug in whatever pass concepts you like most plus the screen game.

When you run Smash, make sure you hot route the outermost hitch WRs to run a smoke screen instead of the hitch (Right Trigger hot route). That will give you way better spacing between the smash route and the quick hitch and cleans up the read. I've been doing that for years and really made Smash an effective play for me. That's probably my favorite pass concept as well and run it and Z Spot more than anything.

 

[LEGEND]

I actually did the smoke screen with smash the other night... I was looking for ways to clear up reads.

I tried something last night in two user games I've been trying to do for sometime. The Twin TE power run game with a Brady/Patriots quick passing game. It didn't go so well first game... But I could see glimpses. First game I lost 28-10 with several picks.

But that dyn is 5 Qba with crazy cpu defensive sliders. In the second game... The sliders are avg no 5 Qba either. But I only attempted 9 passes... I completed 7 of 9 for 200+ but rushed for 400 plus!

My opponent was selling out to stop my RB so my Qb gashed him for 300+. It was all Pistol formations. I added every Twin TE pistol formation except Ace.

When he tried to take away the Qb... I was able to pop some big runs with slam, counter, and strong sweep. Most of if not all my passes were off play action. That made my passing much easier as I could see the field better.

Right now my playbook is only 12 personnel pistol and 11 personnel shotgun. I went uptempo a couple times in both games... So that's another wrinkle. I think the reason I struggled in the 1st game is due to my guards not being that good.

It's a new dynasty in it's second wk and I'm still learning my North Carolina team. In second dyn... I have a solid Miami team with a very talented offensive line.

Played my powerhouse cpu game against LSU last night and rushed for 400 yds. I'm still tweaking it but I'm going to try sticking with this. I wanna see where it takes me!





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[TXHusker05]

I actually did the smoke screen with smash the other night... I was looking for ways to clear up reads.

I tried something last night in two user games I've been trying to do for sometime. The Twin TE power run game with a Brady/Patriots quick passing game. It didn't go so well first game... But I could see glimpses. First game I lost 28-10 with several picks.

But that dyn is 5 Qba with crazy cpu defensive sliders. In the second game... The sliders are avg no 5 Qba either. But I only attempted 9 passes... I completed 7 of 9 for 200+ but rushed for 400 plus!

My opponent was selling out to stop my RB so my Qb gashed him for 300+. It was all Pistol formations. I added every Twin TE pistol formation except Ace.

When he tried to take away the Qb... I was able to pop some big runs with slam, counter, and strong sweep. Most of if not all my passes were off play action. That made my passing much easier as I could see the field better.

Right now my playbook is only 12 personnel pistol and 11 personnel shotgun. I went uptempo a couple times in both games... So that's another wrinkle. I think the reason I struggled in the 1st game is due to my guards not being that good.

It's a new dynasty in it's second wk and I'm still learning my North Carolina team. In second dyn... I have a solid Miami team with a very talented offensive line.

Played my powerhouse cpu game against LSU last night and rushed for 400 yds. I'm still tweaking it but I'm going to try sticking with this. I wanna see where it takes me!

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I'm a big fan of twin tight end formations in general. Pistol Twin TE Slot being one of my favorites. It is a deadly run formation but still a balanced pass formation assuming you have solid TEs. The only reason I've gotten away from it in Powerhouse is because I just don't have the TE depth. Early on in ODs when receivers have blocking ratings I could get away with a WR as the wing player and in an option offense I could get away with a HB there but I have neither of those things.

I'm not sure if you have any speed at QB or if you run any up-tempo, but one thing I love to do in a 12 personnel offense is go no-huddle from Twin TE Slot to Wildcat Wing. I snuck in quite a few Jet Sweeps and QB Counters going up-tempo within 12 personnel that way. Unfortunately, again, I don't have the personnel to do it at Nebraska.

 

[LEGEND]

I'm a big fan of twin tight end formations in general. Pistol Twin TE Slot being one of my favorites. It is a deadly run formation but still a balanced pass formation assuming you have solid TEs. The only reason I've gotten away from it in Powerhouse is because I just don't have the TE depth. Early on in ODs when receivers have blocking ratings I could get away with a WR as the wing player and in an option offense I could get away with a HB there but I have neither of those things.

I'm not sure if you have any speed at QB or if you run any up-tempo, but one thing I love to do in a 12 personnel offense is go no-huddle from Twin TE Slot to Wildcat Wing. I snuck in quite a few Jet Sweeps and QB Counters going up-tempo within 12 personnel that way. Unfortunately, again, I don't have the personnel to do it at Nebraska.

I love them too!

I hate how certain nickel defense's can just shut heavy run formations down!

Played this guy in my OD and he pretty much shut the run down. I broke a couple nice runs here and there. Db's kept shooting the gaps making the tackle.

I wish some of the formations had a TE. Screen. The only one I know of in the game.... Is Ace slot.

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[TXHusker05]

I love them too!

I hate how certain nickel defense's can just shut heavy run formations down!

Played this guy in my OD and he pretty much shut the run down. I broke a couple nice runs here and there. Db's kept shooting the gaps making the tackle.

I wish some of the formations had a TE. Screen. The only one I know of in the game.... Is Ace slot.

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I installed Ace Slot in my Spread I Pro specifically for that play. I have a really good TE and was needing to find different ways to get him the ball so I installed Ace Slot for the TE Screen, the Trap play and the Swing Screen. I also put my TE at FB in Strong I Normal and run the FB Screen in that formation. I like jumping under center to run it coming out of the huddle or off of a no huddle series. I hit the PA TE Screen for a TD vs @bruin228.

I also have a few created TE screens using Slip Screens in my Gun Wing Offset formations where I just hot route the HB to run a swing opposite of the screen and the wing TE runs a swing towards the screen. It isn't the smoothest but it usually works and is a good way to get the TE some touches in different ways.

If you are just looking to find ways to get your TE the ball, you could always split him out wide and run a Mid Screen to him or if he happened to have a little run ability like a fullback, put him at HB and hand him the ball or run toss or option.

 

[LEGEND]

I installed Ace Slot in my Spread I Pro specifically for that play. I have a really good TE and was needing to find different ways to get him the ball so I installed Ace Slot for the TE Screen, the Trap play and the Swing Screen. I also put my TE at FB in Strong I Normal and run the FB Screen in that formation. I like jumping under center to run it coming out of the huddle or off of a no huddle series. I hit the PA TE Screen for a TD vs @bruin228.

I also have a few created TE screens using Slip Screens in my Gun Wing Offset formations where I just hot route the HB to run a swing opposite of the screen and the wing TE runs a swing towards the screen. It isn't the smoothest but it usually works and is a good way to get the TE some touches in different ways.

If you are just looking to find ways to get your TE the ball, you could always split him out wide and run a Mid Screen to him or if he happened to have a little run ability like a fullback, put him at HB and hand him the ball or run toss or option.

Run a mid screen to TE... How you do that? Do you just split him out on a hb screen ?

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[TXHusker05]

Run a mid screen to TE... How you do that? Do you just split him out on a hb screen ?

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Just like him up at receiver, you can either do formation subs to get a TE split wide or there are a few formations with a TE Wideout package. If you're only using a handful of plays in a formation, don't be afraid to formation sub a weird package with out of position players in it. Most of my offense consists of weird formation subs. If you're just looking to get one single guy more touches, just put him in a formation where you can run a series of plays just for him, even if he's out of position.

 

[LEGEND]

Just like him up at receiver, you can either do formation subs to get a TE split wide or there are a few formations with a TE Wideout package. If you're only using a handful of plays in a formation, don't be afraid to formation sub a weird package with out of position players in it. Most of my offense consists of weird formation subs. If you're just looking to get one single guy more touches, just put him in a formation where you can run a series of plays just for him, even if he's out of position.

Okay, I thought you were talking about creating a TE middle screen.

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[TXHusker05]

Okay, I thought you were talking about creating a TE middle screen.

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Only way to do that would be formation sub a TE elsewhere in the formation. I suppose in theory you could try calling a WR Mid Screen but hot route a TE to either a quick hitch or maybe a drag but not sure how well it would time up.

It is tough to get TEs involved in the screen game unless you're creative and are willing to move them around the formation some.

 

[nofx94]

There are a couple of tight end screens but they're all from under center.

Do y'all ever have problems with formations stacking on top of each other? Like right now I have normal wing offset and wing offset weak as one formation in my playbook and split offset and y offset as one formation. It's not actually a huge problem unless I'm using formation audibles or no huddle. It used to bother me more whereas now I kind of find it convenient... But how does one go about fixing this problem with our completely scrapping the playbook?

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[bruin228]

Has happened to me a ton. No idea how to fix it.

 

[nofx94]

Has happened to me a ton. No idea how to fix it.

I really don't like that we can't arrange formations the way we can arrange plays. It's still a very solid feature and a very solid game. If they ever come back, they have a good foundation.

 

[LEGEND]

There are a couple of tight end screens but they're all from under center.

Do y'all ever have problems with formations stacking on top of each other? Like right now I have normal wing offset and wing offset weak as one formation in my playbook and split offset and y offset as one formation. It's not actually a huge problem unless I'm using formation audibles or no huddle. It used to bother me more whereas now I kind of find it convenient... But how does one go about fixing this problem with our completely scrapping the playbook?

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Which formations have the TE screens? I'd like to check em out! Can't remember any myself.

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[TXHusker05]

There are a couple of tight end screens but they're all from under center.

Do y'all ever have problems with formations stacking on top of each other? Like right now I have normal wing offset and wing offset weak as one formation in my playbook and split offset and y offset as one formation. It's not actually a huge problem unless I'm using formation audibles or no huddle. It used to bother me more whereas now I kind of find it convenient... But how does one go about fixing this problem with our completely scrapping the playbook?

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Not sure I've ever had that, but I've spent countless hours of time trying to make my playbooks work in a very specific order. For the most part, I've been successful. Still have some obnoxious quirks though. I spent a few hours last night putting together a Gun Triple Option playbook that is literally only Shotgun and two Wishbone formations and it took a while to get everything ordered nicely and with working quick audibles in all four directions.

But it is a nasty playbook. Well worth the effort.

 

[LEGEND]

Anybody know what formations flow with SG trips over? Want to go uptempo with it... But never know where TE will end up.

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[TXHusker05]

Anybody know what formations flow with SG trips over? Want to go uptempo with it... But never know where TE will end up.

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I'm not sure any will. Gun Closed Trips formations are the worst. Honestly, that's part of the reason I went to Pistol in my Spread-I, I was sick of having tight ends and receivers ending up all over the place. I know Gun Trio Offset and Gun Trio Unbalanced work together nicely but that's about it. That problem doesn't exist in Pistol, you can go between Pistol Trips, Y Trips and Slot seamlessly.

 

[TXHusker05]

Speaking of Trio Unbalanced, I just discovered an interesting quirk using the HB Swing play (with the swing hot routed to a wheel). The game treats that play very similarly to shovel option, the EMOL reacts as if it is shovel option, just without the "R" above his head. So I essentially turned it into a run pass option reading the EMOL/force defender.

--------------FS------------------------------------
------------------------------SS------------CB-----
-------------B----B----B-------------CB------------
-----------E----T---T---E--------------------------
------------T-G-C-G-T-TE-----------WR-----------
--------------------------------WR----------WR---
-----------------Q----------------------------------
-------------------H---------------------------------

I've noticed that you can actually read and attack the DE or OLB (if on the LOS). I just run right at him with my QB, if the EMOL widens I'll just run with the QB. If he steps down or attacks the QB or does anything else, I can float the swing/wheel out to the HB so he catches it right at the LOS.

I haven't had the chance to run it in a user game yet, but it is decent in CPU games. The issue is those WRs don't block for shit. I have TEs out there at Army so it is okay, but anywhere else I'm guessing it wouldn't work. It is usually a solid gain though, I can pick up 4-5 yards if I just run with the QB and the swing screen usually goes for 5-6 before the WR loses track of the DB he's blocking.

I'm not sure how the defense will react when it is an odd front, but against an even front it is a pretty clean read on the RPO. It is pretty much just an option run play, just out of Swing. Certainly wouldn't consider it cheese/exploiting either when you have no down field pass routes. It replaces Bubble Screen for me in that formation since I couldn't ever get PA Bubble to be a quick audible in that formation.

 

[LEGEND]

I'm not sure any will. Gun Closed Trips formations are the worst. Honestly, that's part of the reason I went to Pistol in my Spread-I, I was sick of having tight ends and receivers ending up all over the place. I know Gun Trio Offset and Gun Trio Unbalanced work together nicely but that's about it. That problem doesn't exist in Pistol, you can go between Pistol Trips, Y Trips and Slot seamlessly.

Been thinking of adding SG Trips unbalanced.... Hmmmm? I've been running SG Trips over.... uptempo with SG Empty base and Empty spread. It feels better because the TE will either be in one of the two slots or in the X spot.

The Twin TE play action from Pistol is great! I love it because unlike under center... I can keep my eyes fixed on the defense and the routes developing. The HB screens seem to feel smoother also.

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[nofx94]

I'm starting to get more involved with Pistol sets. I'm slowly being drawn back to under center but both my fullbacks are 70 ovr right now so it doesn't make sense to over utilize them instead of my 4 high 80s-mid 90s receivers. I've even started running less no huddle. Right now I'm hoping some of the TEs I bring in will work as FB converts.

In shotgun (and pistol And probably eventually ace) I've started to include more unbalanced sets in my "power spread" playbook as inspired by the "spread wing t" I developed from Husker's (I think) recommendations to someone else. That's a fun playbook. Very option heavy. The theory behind my "power spread" has been more pro-oriented but I keep athletes at QB (current one has 90+ SPD) so I always delve into some read and some triple.

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[LEGEND]

@TXHusker05

I know you used SG Split and SG Slot twin back sets in the past... and they where a part of your offense. How are they when trying to run from them?

I haven't had success in the past... I have SG Split close in my playbook. I ran it exclusively in a cpu OD game last night uptempo.

It was very effective passing wise... More so than I expected. The run game is basically 3 or 4 plays. The FB inside was good early for 10 yds a pop. I put up good numbers just running that formation all gm.

It got me to thinking about adding Split offset or is it Slot offset?

In either case it got me thinking... The others don't fit my 11 personnel scheme like Split close but if I can run from them.. It's another wrinkle.

Any suggestions?

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[JSU Zack]

@TXHusker05

I know you used SG Split and SG Slot twin back sets in the past... and they where a part of your offense. How are they when trying to run from them?

I haven't had success in the past... I have SG Split close in my playbook. I ran it exclusively in a cpu OD game last night uptempo.

It was very effective passing wise... More so than I expected. The run game is basically 3 or 4 plays. The FB inside was good early for 10 yds a pop. I put up good numbers just running that formation all gm.

It got me to thinking about adding Split offset or is it Slot offset?

In either case it got me thinking... The others don't fit my 11 personnel scheme like Split close but if I can run from them.. It's another wrinkle.

Any suggestions?

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Put a 2nd halfback in split close with a formation package and have fun. Inside zone from Split Normal and Split Twins is incredibly good.

 

[JSU Zack]

Cross-posting as some of this pertains to you spread heads.

My Pro Spread Offense: http://zackwhiteit.com/2015/11/03/the-pro-spread-offense/

 

[TXHusker05]

@TXHusker05

I know you used SG Split and SG Slot twin back sets in the past... and they where a part of your offense. How are they when trying to run from them?

I haven't had success in the past... I have SG Split close in my playbook. I ran it exclusively in a cpu OD game last night uptempo.

It was very effective passing wise... More so than I expected. The run game is basically 3 or 4 plays. The FB inside was good early for 10 yds a pop. I put up good numbers just running that formation all gm.

It got me to thinking about adding Split offset or is it Slot offset?

In either case it got me thinking... The others don't fit my 11 personnel scheme like Split close but if I can run from them.. It's another wrinkle.

Any suggestions?

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Gun Split formations (non-offset) are far better passing formations than they are run formations. They all have some really good west coast, air coryell type of concepts that are just deadly in this game. As for running, I never really had all that much success running which is ultimately why I ditched it. Gun Split Slot has a few good option plays but if you're talking just traditional runs anything other than Power/Counter is going to get dicey. There are a few decent inside zone plays but that is it. Great passing formations though.

I obviously prefer Offset Gun formations always. I haven't had a non-offset gun formation in my offense in a long time. Part of that is that I like my QB's feet at the same place every down between Pistol and Offset Gun, it makes all of my audibles really seamless and efficient. When you're going between Pistol/Offset and Traditional Gun, the QB takes a few steps forward or back which messes up timing when I'm doing my audibles. The other part is that I just prefer a hard hitting down hill run game paired with play action. There are only a few things in traditional gun that are better than Offset or Pistol, one is drop back pass concepts and the other is Jet Sweep. I suppose if you're running midline read and the new trap/counter read option plays your only option is traditional gun, but I never found success running those vs users.

Split Offset and Slot Offset are both great formations, both for running and passing. I use both in my playbooks. In Slot Offset, I only run those HB orbit auto-motion plays which are really fun. That motion swing screen play is deadly, and Z Spot is my favorite pass concept in the game and so being able to pair it with motion is great. Split Offset has the same series, but I don't use it there, I like it contained in a mini-series all by itself in Slot Offset so I can use quick audibles to get to every play. For Split Offset, all the concepts you could want are there. Y Cross, Y Corner, Mesh and great run concepts. Those are honestly two of my favorite formations. I'm a big two back guy in general and being able to have split backs offset and mix and match personnel is deadly.

 

[TXHusker05]

I'm kind of back and forth on my offense at Nebraska. Ever since putting a ton of time into remastering my original all-offset gun Spread-I into a triple option offense, I'm reminded why I loved offset gun so much in the first place. That hard hitting downhill run game paired with some really convenient quick audibles (if you put the research and development time in) make it so deadly in user v user play. I can truly run my entire offense from the line of scrimmage via in-formation audibles and pre-set audibles, huddling only to control clock and change personnel. Obviously being entirely option based makes that a little easier than if I were trying to be pro-spread or even more power-spread.

With all the Pistol I've been running, it just makes the playbook massive because I need to have every run concept and every PA off of each of those run concepts in every formation. That alone is probably 1/3 of the playbook. The side effect of that being I'm unable to have any PA Bubble/SE Screens as quick audibles, which means I have no built in way to attack the perimeter if I get a loaded box.

I think Pistol is great for being a deliberate pro-style team, fairly balanced between run and pass with a few option concepts sprinkled in for good measure. However, do be a Pistol pro-style team it requires a unique set of personnel that I'm not sure I have (or can easily recruit). It's TE intensive, requires fairly athletic backs (a sub-90 speed back will be a disaster in the Pistol) and because most of my run game involves pulling OL, I need athletic and high awareness guards. I have none of that.

You can work around the lack of TEs early in ODs because HBs and WRs on custom rosters have block ratings, but when you're in Year 10, generated HB/WR recruits never have them and I can never seem to recruit TEs. There is no work around for non-athletic backs, if they are slow, you are fucked. I have an 89 OVR HB with huge BTK/TRK ratings at Nebraska who is buried on the 4th string below 3 far lesser rated backs because he is slow with lower acceleration and he just sucks in the Pistol. Even if you go full on Pistol Option, most DEs can stay put to induce a give read and then squeeze fast enough to tackle the dive back if he's sub-90 speed. The athletic/high awareness guard issue is just a depth problem that needs a few seasons to fix, but it is a problem none the less. I swear I've been calling a ton of Strong Power/Counter plays and watching the pulling OL drift off into outer space rather than actually block someone.

With all that in mind I think I may remaster my original all-offset Spread-I a second time, this time to be a Tulsa under Graham/Malzahn/Morris/Hand style balanced offense. My QB has a monster arm in that OD and is still 78 SPD which is more than quick enough to make things happen in the option game. Keep the misdirection and two back run game, but utilize the passing game far more. Offset will let me get to my screens at the line which I think will help a lot. Still going to have some Pistol, but I'm going to ditch the Twin TE/Slot/Over stuff and stop trying to waste my awesome tight end as a blocker.

 

[nofx94]

I'm leaning toward converting to an under-center based power-spread in the off season but I don't have the personnel exactly as I want it yet. I did recently reconfigure my "power spread" pistol/gun playbook. Been making the formations more minimalist by cutting down on plays. The last thing I have to do is cut more from the pistol to have both twin TE slot and twin TE slot weak from shotgun. Right now I have split close and offset, normal wing offset and wing offset weak and y-slot, spread flex and offset, tight, trio offset, trio 4wr and strong, trio offset and twin TE slot. Pistol is slot and a bunch of unbalanced sets that mix and match.

 

[TXHusker05]

I'm caught between two trains of thought with Nebraska in Powerhouse. On one hand I have a bunch of depth across the board this season, something I lacked last year, and could use the depth to run a fast paced up-tempo offense. I'd basically use the same playbook design I have for the Spread-I Triple offense, just with some more PA Read stuff and a few more drop back concepts. Run everything at max tempo, arrange formation subs so I can huddle up, put a second unit on the field for a few plays at a time and then go right back to it.

The only thing stopping me from doing that is that I don't want to get into shootouts with the people in that OD. My team isn't good enough to be getting into those 56-49 games and if I make one mistake, it is going to snowball on me. A big part of my success there has been keeping 99 OVR teams off the field and owning TOP. I suppose I could vary my tempo some, go no-huddle but stand at the line of scrimmage a bit similar to what I'm doing in my Triple Option offense. Make my call, do my audibles/shifts/motions and then fake snap to see if I want to adjust a second time. That would let me eat some clock while still being no-huddle, up-tempo and (hopefully) keeping defenses vanilla.

The other train of thought is going with a more heavily loaded pro-spread playbook that is more power/counter/play action. Slow things down, grind it out. Very similar to what I'm already doing, but a bit more of a focus on the play action passing game.

 

[nofx94]

I think you should go with the former idea married with the slow-up no huddle. It'll throw people off and it fits your personnel and with the slowed-down modification you can control the clock better without allowing for defensive subs.

Since I moved my fullback to TE last off season I've been able to sub him to the slot in 4wrtrio, spread flex&offset, and trio-offset. Running the triple option with him is pretty interesting - I'd say realistic as he weighs somewhere between 240 and 260.

If he's the give man, the defense always forces the keep/pitch route. If he's the pitch man and they don't force the give (which they usually do) they swarm to the QB with unparalleled speed and ferociousness. It's fascinating. No one wants to take him on.

It basically turns the triple option into a wrap-speed option. He essentially turns into a fake and a predisposed blocker. I'll have to see what happens if I run a speed sweep with him. He's not very fast but it'll take at least two or three hits to bring him down. And if I run it enough it'll scare somebody.

 

[JSU Zack]

I'm caught between two trains of thought with Nebraska in Powerhouse. On one hand I have a bunch of depth across the board this season, something I lacked last year, and could use the depth to run a fast paced up-tempo offense. I'd basically use the same playbook design I have for the Spread-I Triple offense, just with some more PA Read stuff and a few more drop back concepts. Run everything at max tempo, arrange formation subs so I can huddle up, put a second unit on the field for a few plays at a time and then go right back to it.

The only thing stopping me from doing that is that I don't want to get into shootouts with the people in that OD. My team isn't good enough to be getting into those 56-49 games and if I make one mistake, it is going to snowball on me. A big part of my success there has been keeping 99 OVR teams off the field and owning TOP. I suppose I could vary my tempo some, go no-huddle but stand at the line of scrimmage a bit similar to what I'm doing in my Triple Option offense. Make my call, do my audibles/shifts/motions and then fake snap to see if I want to adjust a second time. That would let me eat some clock while still being no-huddle, up-tempo and (hopefully) keeping defenses vanilla.

The other train of thought is going with a more heavily loaded pro-spread playbook that is more power/counter/play action. Slow things down, grind it out. Very similar to what I'm already doing, but a bit more of a focus on the play action passing game.

I know you're infatuated with two back concepts, but have you considered running something like Kiffin runs at Alabama? It has many of the same concepts you use but based out of 11 personnel with 21 & 12 mixed in. He bases out of split zone like you as well.

 

[TXHusker05]

I know you're infatuated with two back concepts, but have you considered running something like Kiffin runs at Alabama? It has many of the same concepts you use but based out of 11 personnel with 21 & 12 mixed in. He bases out of split zone like you as well.

I would love to be in more 11 one back stuff since that is perfect for my personnel, but I can never seem to find the right concepts. I can't seem to find any decent split zone concepts anywhere else but in two back Pistol/Gun Wing formations and I feel like gap stuff doesn't mesh up that well.

I am going to go back to focusing on my 12 personnel Pistol stuff, but with a wingback HB/WR hybrid at the wing position. I'll lose a little in blocking but I really like that Twin TE alignment with the wing player in a 1x1 alignment off the TE.

I should be able to use a combination of audibles and tempo to move those guys around and seamlessly get into traditional 11 personnel sets as well. I tried going into a full on offset gun look at Nebraska but I need the gap scheme concepts that Pistol provides. My QB is enough of a runner (78 SPD) to make things happen on the ground, but not enough of a runner to be an every down threat to keep and offset gun just needs that threat at QB. With Pistol, I can get into more gap scheme stuff and run more lead/load option so I don't need my QB to do that much with his legs. I also really enjoy some of the PA concepts in those 12 personnel (Twin TE/Twin TE Slot) formations. A lot of boot/waggle with different levels of crossers.

I'd honestly love to just roll with my Spread I Gun Triple offense that I'm running at Army full time. It is absurdly fun and really nicely designed to have answers everywhere. But my QB at Nebraska is 98 THP/90 THA and I've got some good receivers, I would feel like a dumbass running 60 times with that guy at QB.

 

[JSU Zack]

I would love to be in more 11 one back stuff since that is perfect for my personnel, but I can never seem to find the right concepts. I can't seem to find any decent split zone concepts anywhere else but in two back Pistol/Gun Wing formations and I feel like gap stuff doesn't mesh up that well.

I am going to go back to focusing on my 12 personnel Pistol stuff, but with a wingback HB/WR hybrid at the wing position. I'll lose a little in blocking but I really like that Twin TE alignment with the wing player in a 1x1 alignment off the TE.

I should be able to use a combination of audibles and tempo to move those guys around and seamlessly get into traditional 11 personnel sets as well. I tried going into a full on offset gun look at Nebraska but I need the gap scheme concepts that Pistol provides. My QB is enough of a runner (78 SPD) to make things happen on the ground, but not enough of a runner to be an every down threat to keep and offset gun just needs that threat at QB. With Pistol, I can get into more gap scheme stuff and run more lead/load option so I don't need my QB to do that much with his legs. I also really enjoy some of the PA concepts in those 12 personnel (Twin TE/Twin TE Slot) formations. A lot of boot/waggle with different levels of crossers.

I'd honestly love to just roll with my Spread I Gun Triple offense that I'm running at Army full time. It is absurdly fun and really nicely designed to have answers everywhere. But my QB at Nebraska is 98 THP/90 THA and I've got some good receivers, I would feel like a dumbass running 60 times with that guy at QB.

Can't remember if it was you or @NavyHog that I rolled the "Gunbone" out against in an exhibition. If you have Gun Split Offset with all the plays (~30), you can do some serious damage in the air to capitalize on your current personnel. You could also do something like you do with the Pistol motion series with Spread Flex and Split Offset. It's a nasty combo for passing.

 

[nofx94]

I always run with split offset because of the more-downhill running, but what do y'all think of split slot (what used to be 2rb 3wr)? It has a lot of options for option - with the trap and counter triples

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

Can't remember if it was you or @NavyHog that I rolled the "Gunbone" out against in an exhibition. If you have Gun Split Offset with all the plays (~30), you can do some serious damage in the air to capitalize on your current personnel. You could also do something like you do with the Pistol motion series with Spread Flex and Split Offset. It's a nasty combo for passing.

Are you talking about the slot receiver jumping into the backfield on the audible? I have tried this in the past and if IRC, doesn't the RB move to the QB's left and the slot shifts to the QB's right?

 

[JSU Zack]

Are you talking about the slot receiver jumping into the backfield on the audible? I have tried this in the past and if IRC, doesn't the RB move to the QB's left and the slot shifts to the QB's right?

Possibly, but it should give the same result. The only downside is the slot gets the ball on IZ.

 

[TXHusker05]

Can't remember if it was you or @NavyHog that I rolled the "Gunbone" out against in an exhibition. If you have Gun Split Offset with all the plays (~30), you can do some serious damage in the air to capitalize on your current personnel. You could also do something like you do with the Pistol motion series with Spread Flex and Split Offset. It's a nasty combo for passing.

Split Offset is honestly my favorite formation that I don't do enough out of. I mean I'm a two back guy, what better formation? I mostly get in it to run IZ/Split Zone and Counter plus my option stuff in the Gun Triple offense.

I typicall remove all the pass plays except Y Corner, Y Cross, PA Screen and PA Read because the quick audibles in that formation are really finicky. That's why it is the only formation in my offense with the pass play at the top of the formation.

If I set my mind to it, I could probably run that formation all game though. Especially devastating with a legit fullback who can carry the ball. Plus it blends well with my Slot Offset orbit motion series.

I always run with split offset because of the more-downhill running, but what do y'all think of split slot (what used to be 2rb 3wr)? It has a lot of options for option - with the trap and counter triples

I run only Pistol and Offset, but Split Slot can be a good formation. The options are more developed and I really like the PA Wheel concepts it has. If you're willing to run mostly option and want a nice PA game, you won't find a better formation than Split Slot. In my case, I want more of the hard hitting interior run game so I get into offset.

Are you talking about the slot receiver jumping into the backfield on the audible? I have tried this in the past and if IRC, doesn't the RB move to the QB's left and the slot shifts to the QB's right?

Yeah going from Split Offset to Spread Flex/Offset or vice versa isn't great. The HB to the QBs left will move to the right and the right HB will move to the slot and the reverse. What I do is 4WR Trio Offset to Split Offset. That's a nasty jump audible. Put a quick scatback in the slot, throw bubble to him if he's uncovered, otherwise audible him into the backfield to be a dive/pitch for option.

Another good Split Offset jump audible is Wing Offset Wk to Split Offset. The H-Back/Wing will take a few steps backwards to get into the backfield. If he is a FB type that can run a little, it is devastating. Most people over shift to the back's alignment, if all of a sudden another back jumps into the backfield you can run option the otherwise to huge gains.

 

[PSUEagle]

Split Offset is honestly my favorite formation that I don't do enough out of. I mean I'm a two back guy, what better formation? I mostly get in it to run IZ/Split Zone and Counter plus my option stuff in the Gun Triple offense.

I typicall remove all the pass plays except Y Corner, Y Cross, PA Screen and PA Read because the quick audibles in that formation are really finicky. That's why it is the only formation in my offense with the pass play at the top of the formation.

You're not kidding about that: that formation takes me way longer than any other to get the deep pass audible set up to what I want (689 Hook).

I would prefer to use Split Slot over Split Offset, but I can't because the handoff animation gets screwed up when the set is flipped and I audible to a run (Inside Zone Split). With Offset I currently have a series going with Cross Buck and IZ Split: I come out in the latter and run to whichever side is more favorable (Cross Buck is my run audible). Also have Counter Trey as well as a change up.

 

[TXHusker05]

You're not kidding about that: that formation takes me way longer than any other to get the deep pass audible set up to what I want (689 Hook).

I would prefer to use Split Slot over Split Offset, but I can't because the handoff animation gets screwed up when the set is flipped and I audible to a run (Inside Zone Split). With Offset I currently have a series going with Cross Buck and IZ Split: I come out in the latter and run to whichever side is more favorable (Cross Buck is my run audible). Also have Counter Trey as well as a change up.

How did you get Cross Buck to be your run audible? I can't get anything else except the inside zone to HB1 as the quick run. I assume I'd have to remove that or reorder things?

The best way to control the quick audibles in Split Offset is to put the passes you want on the top row. If the plays are buried in the bottom of that formation, it'll get jacked up. The exception to that being the deep pass play, which doesn't seem to matter or make any sense whatsoever.

In my Gun Triple, my quick audibles are HB Dive, PA Read, Y Corner, PA WR Screen. Works great for that offense. In a perfect world, I'd have HB Counter as my quick run and then FB Angle in there somewhere.