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Saints taking out payday loans to sign players b/c Brees got all the money
- Thread starter Reel
- Start date
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Ah. Name blindness. I thought that was strange. Oh, me.
From Mike Tripplett
I agree with the New Orleans Saints: Jimmy Graham is a tight end.
And I agree with Graham's camp: He should be paid like a top wide receiver.
One of the more fascinating contract debates in recent NFL history was officially set in motion Friday when the Saints placed their franchise tag on Graham. His agent is expected to quickly counter with a grievance that claims Graham should be labeled as a wide receiver instead of a tight end, which would mean a projected franchise-tag salary of $12.3 million instead of $7.04 million.
[+] Enlarge
Jonathan Daniel/Getty ImagesNew Orleans should avoid arbitration and pay Jimmy Graham at least $10 million a season.
The winner of that debate will also earn a massive amount of leverage in long-term contract negotiations. So Saints general manager Mickey Loomis and agent Jimmy Sexton will have to be willing to play an expensive game of chicken if they leave that decision in the hands of a neutral, third-party arbitrator, whose ruling will be tough to predict.
As far as I know, I'm not eligible for the arbitrator job. But I'll go ahead and offer my two cents on the multimillion-dollar topics of the day:
1. I believe Graham is a tight end. True, he lined up for 67 percent of his snaps in the slot or out wide last year. But that's part of a tight end's job description -- especially in the modern NFL.
That was the same ratio last year as future Hall of Fame tight end Tony Gonzalez (whose salary is used to help calculate the franchise-tag figure for tight ends, by the way). And many of the NFL's top tight ends today spend at least 45 percent of their snaps in those traditional receiver positions.
The collective bargaining agreement states that the franchise-tag designation is based on the position "at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year." But how do you define when a player is lining up at tight end? To me, it's a combination job -- sometimes lining up as a blocker, sometimes as a receiver. Wide receivers, on the other hand, spend close to 100 percent of their snaps out wide or in the slot.
2. As long as I've anointed myself as the arbitrator, I'll also declare that the two sides should scrap the franchise-tag debate and agree on a long-term deal worth at least $10 million per year.
If it weren't for the franchise tag, the debate over what position Graham plays wouldn't matter a lick. Call him whatever you want -- a tight end, a receiver, a hybrid, a matchup nightmare. If he were free to go to the highest bidder, his unique skill set would probably fetch something in the area of $12 million per year.
That would put Graham in the ballpark of receivers such as Percy Harvin, Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Marshall and Vincent Jackson. It sure seems like he fits in that group to me.
Unfortunately for Graham, though, the franchise tag prevents him from hitting the open market. The Saints can actually use the tag on Graham for up to three years (which would require raises of 20 percent and 44 percent in 2015 and 2016, respectively).
But even with that leverage, the Saints should recognize that Graham has earned at least $10 million per year. That would make him the highest-paid tight end in NFL history, surpassing the $9 million average of Rob Gronkowski's 2012 extension with the New England Patriots.
All you have to do is look at Graham's numbers to see that he's worth it. His 36 touchdown receptions over the past three years are the most in the NFL, regardless of position. And he has averaged 90 catches and 1,169 yards per year during that span.
Yes, Graham was kept quiet during the playoffs this past season, with a total of four catches for 52 yards against Philadelphia and Seattle. But both opponents clearly made Graham their No. 1 priority, with safeties such as All-Pro Earl Thomas spying on him. And that has value, too, as the Saints proved by running for 185 yards while the Eagles sat back in coverage.
Even more than his value on the field, Graham has also been a model player for the franchise. He has repeatedly played through injuries -- some significant, including a wrist injury in 2012 and a partially torn plantar fascia in 2013. And he never publicly complained or threatened to hold out while playing out his rookie contract as one of the best bargains in the league over the past four years.
I expect the contract talks to drag on for a while because they are so groundbreaking. It's reminiscent of two years ago, when the Saints and quarterback Drew Brees waited until July to make Brees the highest-paid player in the NFL at the time.
The only thing that could speed this process along is that fear of turning over that crucial decision to a third-party arbitrator. That's probably why similar debates -- tight ends Jared Cook and Jermichael Finley the past two years and linebacker/defensive end Terrell Suggs in 2008 -- never reached the point of an arbitrator's decision.
No matter how long it takes, though, I ultimately expect the two sides to reach a long-term deal. I expect Graham to stay in New Orleans -- and to keep revolutionizing the tight end position -- for years to come.
I agree with the New Orleans Saints: Jimmy Graham is a tight end.
And I agree with Graham's camp: He should be paid like a top wide receiver.
One of the more fascinating contract debates in recent NFL history was officially set in motion Friday when the Saints placed their franchise tag on Graham. His agent is expected to quickly counter with a grievance that claims Graham should be labeled as a wide receiver instead of a tight end, which would mean a projected franchise-tag salary of $12.3 million instead of $7.04 million.
[+] Enlarge
Jonathan Daniel/Getty ImagesNew Orleans should avoid arbitration and pay Jimmy Graham at least $10 million a season.
The winner of that debate will also earn a massive amount of leverage in long-term contract negotiations. So Saints general manager Mickey Loomis and agent Jimmy Sexton will have to be willing to play an expensive game of chicken if they leave that decision in the hands of a neutral, third-party arbitrator, whose ruling will be tough to predict.
As far as I know, I'm not eligible for the arbitrator job. But I'll go ahead and offer my two cents on the multimillion-dollar topics of the day:
1. I believe Graham is a tight end. True, he lined up for 67 percent of his snaps in the slot or out wide last year. But that's part of a tight end's job description -- especially in the modern NFL.
That was the same ratio last year as future Hall of Fame tight end Tony Gonzalez (whose salary is used to help calculate the franchise-tag figure for tight ends, by the way). And many of the NFL's top tight ends today spend at least 45 percent of their snaps in those traditional receiver positions.
The collective bargaining agreement states that the franchise-tag designation is based on the position "at which the Franchise Player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year." But how do you define when a player is lining up at tight end? To me, it's a combination job -- sometimes lining up as a blocker, sometimes as a receiver. Wide receivers, on the other hand, spend close to 100 percent of their snaps out wide or in the slot.
2. As long as I've anointed myself as the arbitrator, I'll also declare that the two sides should scrap the franchise-tag debate and agree on a long-term deal worth at least $10 million per year.
If it weren't for the franchise tag, the debate over what position Graham plays wouldn't matter a lick. Call him whatever you want -- a tight end, a receiver, a hybrid, a matchup nightmare. If he were free to go to the highest bidder, his unique skill set would probably fetch something in the area of $12 million per year.
That would put Graham in the ballpark of receivers such as Percy Harvin, Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Marshall and Vincent Jackson. It sure seems like he fits in that group to me.
Unfortunately for Graham, though, the franchise tag prevents him from hitting the open market. The Saints can actually use the tag on Graham for up to three years (which would require raises of 20 percent and 44 percent in 2015 and 2016, respectively).
But even with that leverage, the Saints should recognize that Graham has earned at least $10 million per year. That would make him the highest-paid tight end in NFL history, surpassing the $9 million average of Rob Gronkowski's 2012 extension with the New England Patriots.
All you have to do is look at Graham's numbers to see that he's worth it. His 36 touchdown receptions over the past three years are the most in the NFL, regardless of position. And he has averaged 90 catches and 1,169 yards per year during that span.
Yes, Graham was kept quiet during the playoffs this past season, with a total of four catches for 52 yards against Philadelphia and Seattle. But both opponents clearly made Graham their No. 1 priority, with safeties such as All-Pro Earl Thomas spying on him. And that has value, too, as the Saints proved by running for 185 yards while the Eagles sat back in coverage.
Even more than his value on the field, Graham has also been a model player for the franchise. He has repeatedly played through injuries -- some significant, including a wrist injury in 2012 and a partially torn plantar fascia in 2013. And he never publicly complained or threatened to hold out while playing out his rookie contract as one of the best bargains in the league over the past four years.
I expect the contract talks to drag on for a while because they are so groundbreaking. It's reminiscent of two years ago, when the Saints and quarterback Drew Brees waited until July to make Brees the highest-paid player in the NFL at the time.
The only thing that could speed this process along is that fear of turning over that crucial decision to a third-party arbitrator. That's probably why similar debates -- tight ends Jared Cook and Jermichael Finley the past two years and linebacker/defensive end Terrell Suggs in 2008 -- never reached the point of an arbitrator's decision.
No matter how long it takes, though, I ultimately expect the two sides to reach a long-term deal. I expect Graham to stay in New Orleans -- and to keep revolutionizing the tight end position -- for years to come.
usnfish
Active Member
Someone might figure out that when you want to "get paid" and there is a salary cap that means other people can't get paid.
I'm honestly more excited to see what happens with Brees. Congratulations on the huge contract. Now you get a ton of rookies to throw the ball to, and a project at LT. GOOD LUCK!
Probably easier to let cut him and save the 3.5 million and try and resign him later. See what he gets as a FA, 31 year old running back probably won't have a lot of demand. Restructuring the deal is just robbing peter to pay paul and causes teams to end up 20 million over the cap.
That's not against the rules?
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
lance moore and sharper lulz
fried rice
Who wants to sex Mutombo?
Oh guuurl, how do I get tickets to the Darren Sharper Rape Cruise?
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
G8R Mock Draft Version 1.0 - Pre Free Agency (excuse the formatting, originally posted on Saints forum)
[xtable=skin1|border:0|cellpadding:6|cellspacing:0|bcenter|100%x@]
{tbody}
{tr=top}
{td=195x@} {/td}
{td}
Round 1:
Jason Verrett - CB - TCU
Reasoning: We need a CB who can come in and see serious playing time. This is why I feel we have to go CB early in the draft. I was tempted with the Louisville Safety on the board, but I feel that we are set at safety with Bush and Kenny V.
Round 2:
Kyle Van Noy - OLB - BYU
Reasoning: This is serious value in the 2nd round. I might be happy to see us take this guy with our first rounder. I can't pass him up. Van Noy is athletic and has a knack for finding the ball.
Round 3:
Travis Swanson - C
Reasoning: DLP may be moving on. We need to upgrade the OL.
Round 4:
Cameron Fleming - rt
Reasoning: Still need to upgrade the tackle position.
Round 5:
De'Anthony Thomas - RB - Oregon
Reasoning: He will upgrade our special teams instantly. He will transition into the vacant Sproles/Reggie Bush role.
Round 6:
Colt Lyerla - TE Oregon
Reasoning: Ben Watson is getting older and if Graham goes down, we would still have a dynamic playmaker at TE.{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
[xtable=skin1|border:0|cellpadding:6|cellspacing:0|bcenter|100%x@]
{tbody}
{tr=top}
{td=195x@} {/td}
{td}
Round 1:
Jason Verrett - CB - TCU
Reasoning: We need a CB who can come in and see serious playing time. This is why I feel we have to go CB early in the draft. I was tempted with the Louisville Safety on the board, but I feel that we are set at safety with Bush and Kenny V.
Round 2:
Kyle Van Noy - OLB - BYU
Reasoning: This is serious value in the 2nd round. I might be happy to see us take this guy with our first rounder. I can't pass him up. Van Noy is athletic and has a knack for finding the ball.
Round 3:
Travis Swanson - C
Reasoning: DLP may be moving on. We need to upgrade the OL.
Round 4:
Cameron Fleming - rt
Reasoning: Still need to upgrade the tackle position.
Round 5:
De'Anthony Thomas - RB - Oregon
Reasoning: He will upgrade our special teams instantly. He will transition into the vacant Sproles/Reggie Bush role.
Round 6:
Colt Lyerla - TE Oregon
Reasoning: Ben Watson is getting older and if Graham goes down, we would still have a dynamic playmaker at TE.{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
@GR8 2 B FL G8R Love Thomas in the 5th round, but he will probably go in the 3rd if I could guess.
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
It was a draft game with these parameters
By no means is this an awesome game, i'm bored and it's giving me something to do. If you'd like to participate you are more than welcome I only ask to follow the rules
Trying to be as realistic as possible i've compiled a list of players that have a decent chance of "actually" being there when we pick, you must pick 1 of 6 players each round and try to come up with the best possible draft given the possible choices. I'll decide the winner after a week.
Rule 1 - You MUST pick 1 of the 6 choices
Rule 2 - NO trades
Rule 3 - Dont tell me this guy or that guy will or won't fall, we honestly have no clue, kind of how jarvis jones and sharrif floyd were both guaranteed top 5 picks...
Round 1:
Kelvin Benjamin - wr
Jason Verrett - cb
Ryan Shazier - mlb
Calvin Pryor - fs
Brandin Cooks - wr
Bradley Roby - cb
Round 2:
Morgan Moses - rt
Kyle Van Noy - olb
Kyle Fuller - cb
Donte Moncrief - wr
Jimmie Ward - fs
Cyril Richardson - g/c
Round 3:
Travis Swanson - c
James Hurst - rt
Marcus Smith - olb
Stanley Jean-Baptiste - cb
Brandon Coleman - wr
Christian Jones - mlb
Round 4:
Cameron Fleming - rt
Jackson Jeffcoat - olb
Lache Seastrunk - rb
Shayne Skov - mlb
Dri Archer - wr
Aaron Colvin - cb
Round 5:
Adrian Hubbard - olb
Ryan Grant - wr
De'Anthony Thomas - rb
EJ Gaines - cb
Aaron Lynch - olb
Martavis Bryant - wr
Round 6:
Cody Hoffman - wr
Morgan Breslin - olb
Dakota Dozier - g/c
Antone Exum - cb/s
Seantrel Henderson - rt
Colt Lyerla - te
By no means is this an awesome game, i'm bored and it's giving me something to do. If you'd like to participate you are more than welcome I only ask to follow the rules
Trying to be as realistic as possible i've compiled a list of players that have a decent chance of "actually" being there when we pick, you must pick 1 of 6 players each round and try to come up with the best possible draft given the possible choices. I'll decide the winner after a week.
Rule 1 - You MUST pick 1 of the 6 choices
Rule 2 - NO trades
Rule 3 - Dont tell me this guy or that guy will or won't fall, we honestly have no clue, kind of how jarvis jones and sharrif floyd were both guaranteed top 5 picks...
Round 1:
Kelvin Benjamin - wr
Jason Verrett - cb
Ryan Shazier - mlb
Calvin Pryor - fs
Brandin Cooks - wr
Bradley Roby - cb
Round 2:
Morgan Moses - rt
Kyle Van Noy - olb
Kyle Fuller - cb
Donte Moncrief - wr
Jimmie Ward - fs
Cyril Richardson - g/c
Round 3:
Travis Swanson - c
James Hurst - rt
Marcus Smith - olb
Stanley Jean-Baptiste - cb
Brandon Coleman - wr
Christian Jones - mlb
Round 4:
Cameron Fleming - rt
Jackson Jeffcoat - olb
Lache Seastrunk - rb
Shayne Skov - mlb
Dri Archer - wr
Aaron Colvin - cb
Round 5:
Adrian Hubbard - olb
Ryan Grant - wr
De'Anthony Thomas - rb
EJ Gaines - cb
Aaron Lynch - olb
Martavis Bryant - wr
Round 6:
Cody Hoffman - wr
Morgan Breslin - olb
Dakota Dozier - g/c
Antone Exum - cb/s
Seantrel Henderson - rt
Colt Lyerla - te
usnfish
Active Member
Glad the Saints aren't paying Jenkins what Philly offered.
I like the TCU CB G8r. Please not Roby if they go DB in the first, dude is going to get wrecked in the NFL. DeAnthony Thomas seems like a great fit, but fuck going after offensive skill players earlier than the fourth.
I have no idea how they find the money for Jarius Byrd, but fixing the back end of the defense and the offensive line have to be the priorities. I really want Graham to go elsewhere and open up space for other options.
I like the TCU CB G8r. Please not Roby if they go DB in the first, dude is going to get wrecked in the NFL. DeAnthony Thomas seems like a great fit, but fuck going after offensive skill players earlier than the fourth.
I have no idea how they find the money for Jarius Byrd, but fixing the back end of the defense and the offensive line have to be the priorities. I really want Graham to go elsewhere and open up space for other options.
bruin
Well-Known Member
I can see DAT falling to the 5th round or lower. Had a pretty meh combine and NFL execs weren't very thrilled with how he conducts his twitter account (lulllz).
Reminds me of another Pac-10 player who everybody shat on going into the draft and has turned it around quite well in the league cough* cough* Vontaze Burfict**cough
Reminds me of another Pac-10 player who everybody shat on going into the draft and has turned it around quite well in the league cough* cough* Vontaze Burfict**cough
usnfish
Active Member
Is this serious?
7th round picks from 2014-2034.
It's about win now and deal with the mess when Brees is gone.
fried rice
Who wants to sex Mutombo?
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
We are planning on the salary cap increasing tremendously.
Here is a post from SR:
The Saints only had 2 million in cap space and signed Jarius Byrd to a 56 million dollar deal. Here's how it can be done:
With the salary cap jumping 10 million from 2013 and significant rises forecast for the next few years the Saints are getting out in front of this. The 2015 cap should be about 143 million, about 10 million more than 2014. (This is because the league has a new 800 million $ contract for Thursday night games.) In the latest CBA each team must spend 89% of the cap or they pay that amount as a penalty. In 2 or 3 years teams are going to be having a 160 million dollar salary cap and have to give huge contracts to marginal players.
The Saints see this happening and are stocking up on the best players available instead of waiting to sign someone because they need to spend the money. Also keep in mind that with the new rookie wage scale (which will be in place for the next 6 years) draft picks gets peanuts for the first few years.
Let's enjoy this for a few more years.
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
IDK mang, just be happy about Byrd
Whenever he makes a play in the Dome, my brother, cousins, and I are just going to
GIVE THEM THE BYRD
Whenever he makes a play in the Dome, my brother, cousins, and I are just going to
GIVE THEM THE BYRD
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
I hope Buffalo trades us two firsts for him lulz
usnfish
Active Member
I like the moves to cut Greer (he's 32 and coming off an ACL), Smith (going to be 33 and coming off an ACL), and Harper (garbage). Moore is overpaid and can be replaced. Going from Jenkins at FS to Byrd is an enormous upgrade. Interested to see what their cap situation looks like next year. How much dead money is carrying over if any?
Ideally I'd like them to re-sign Bush and De La Puente. Beyond that need to have a good draft, focus on OL/CB and maybe a skill player on offense or two if anyone drops. I wouldn't be surprised if this year or next they take a swing at a QB. Brees will be 38 when his contract is up, they have 2-3 years to groom a successor.
Ideally I'd like them to re-sign Bush and De La Puente. Beyond that need to have a good draft, focus on OL/CB and maybe a skill player on offense or two if anyone drops. I wouldn't be surprised if this year or next they take a swing at a QB. Brees will be 38 when his contract is up, they have 2-3 years to groom a successor.
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
What are we going to do about the RT? Is Charles Brown still under contract? I think we let Strief walk
usnfish
Active Member
Looking at what the starting lineup is going to be so far....
QB - Drew Brees
RB - Pierre Thomas
FB - ??? (Re-sign Collins?)
WR - Marques Colston
WR - Kenny Stills
WR - ??? (Toon works out? Tanner sticks finally?)
TE - Jimmy Graham/Ben Watson
LT - Terron Armstead
LG - Ben Grubbs
C - Brian De La Puente? (Need to Re-sign)
RG - Jahri Evans
RT - ???
DE - Akiem Hicks
DT - Broderick Bunkley
DE - Cameron Jordan
OLB - Junior Galette
ILB - David Hawthorne
ILB - Curtis Lofton
OLB - Victor Butler (?)
CB - Corey White (please upgrade this in the draft)
FS - Jairus Byrd
SS - Kenny Vaccaro
NB - Rafael Bush (actually under contract already, whoops)
CB - Kennan Lewis
In 11 games Byrd had 4 INTs. Harper and Jenkins combined had 3.
On the DL there is some depth with Tyrunn Walker, Glenn Foster, and John Jenkins. Biggest question mark is that RT spot (and if Armstead can play LT long term). CB, OT, and LB depth are going to be high for the Saints draft.
QB - Drew Brees
RB - Pierre Thomas
FB - ??? (Re-sign Collins?)
WR - Marques Colston
WR - Kenny Stills
WR - ??? (Toon works out? Tanner sticks finally?)
TE - Jimmy Graham/Ben Watson
LT - Terron Armstead
LG - Ben Grubbs
C - Brian De La Puente? (Need to Re-sign)
RG - Jahri Evans
RT - ???
DE - Akiem Hicks
DT - Broderick Bunkley
DE - Cameron Jordan
OLB - Junior Galette
ILB - David Hawthorne
ILB - Curtis Lofton
OLB - Victor Butler (?)
CB - Corey White (please upgrade this in the draft)
FS - Jairus Byrd
SS - Kenny Vaccaro
NB - Rafael Bush (actually under contract already, whoops)
CB - Kennan Lewis
In 11 games Byrd had 4 INTs. Harper and Jenkins combined had 3.
On the DL there is some depth with Tyrunn Walker, Glenn Foster, and John Jenkins. Biggest question mark is that RT spot (and if Armstead can play LT long term). CB, OT, and LB depth are going to be high for the Saints draft.
RE: pelicans
i think its safe to say Monty is trying his best to get fired. Why keep playing Steisma at all? All he does is clog the lane b/c his defender doesnt go out on him on PnR. He takes away the spacing needed for AD or anyone capable of dribbling and chewing gum at the same time to penetrate.
He KEPT Steisma in the game as if he had 25pts or something. I think @usnfish said on twitter that Steisma was the only person to go negative on the pels roster. And wtf has happened to darius miller? He needs to go back down to the d-league. With only a handful of games left, why not just bring in Pierre Jackson and at least see what he can do against NBA players. Who cares that they have a log jam at the guard spot. This season for all intents and purposes is over for them. Play the young bucks.
i think its safe to say Monty is trying his best to get fired. Why keep playing Steisma at all? All he does is clog the lane b/c his defender doesnt go out on him on PnR. He takes away the spacing needed for AD or anyone capable of dribbling and chewing gum at the same time to penetrate.
He KEPT Steisma in the game as if he had 25pts or something. I think @usnfish said on twitter that Steisma was the only person to go negative on the pels roster. And wtf has happened to darius miller? He needs to go back down to the d-league. With only a handful of games left, why not just bring in Pierre Jackson and at least see what he can do against NBA players. Who cares that they have a log jam at the guard spot. This season for all intents and purposes is over for them. Play the young bucks.
GR8 2 B FL G8R
Well-Known Member
Why sign Steisma if you don't want to play him at all? I think we took a wrong move just by signing this big bastard
Every fan of the league knew this guy is a POS, coming into this season. Why didn't our FO know this? That's where the problem begins. I don't think you can fault a corch for playing one of the few available bigs on his team's bench. You can fault the FO for signing terrible bigs that don't even belong on an NBA bench.
Every fan of the league knew this guy is a POS, coming into this season. Why didn't our FO know this? That's where the problem begins. I don't think you can fault a corch for playing one of the few available bigs on his team's bench. You can fault the FO for signing terrible bigs that don't even belong on an NBA bench.
Last edited:
usnfish
Active Member
The problem isn't Stiemsma and it isn't the front office bringing him in. He was signed to be the fourth or fifth big behind Davis, Anderson, Smith, and Aminu (if Monty ever figured out a guy that can defend and rebound while being 6'9" without a shot is a small ball PF not a starting SF).
Anderson and Smith are both injured. Monty has never figured out what Aminu is. And Stiemsma is averaging 20+ minutes since January.
Monty just has a love affair with "veterans who play the right way". Withey had more points and rebounds than Stiemsma last night in 21 fewer minutes.
Anderson and Smith are both injured. Monty has never figured out what Aminu is. And Stiemsma is averaging 20+ minutes since January.
Monty just has a love affair with "veterans who play the right way". Withey had more points and rebounds than Stiemsma last night in 21 fewer minutes.