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Conference Excretion Thread

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Once the Big Ten's new media rights get settled and ESPN decides whether or not to start a full-fledged ACC Network, then the Big 12 will take a serious look at expansion. But even then, it will be a long, arduous process just to get enough Big 12 members to vote yes, let alone agree on who to add. There are no home run additions that the conference can realistically grab, or they would have been already.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
ucf-empty-stands.jpg
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Haven't you been posting that "potential" post verbatim for about 10 years? This is coming from someone who thinks UCF has potential and will eventually be in a major league (as opposed to USF that is a joke).

And again the Big XII shouldn't care about what a team is like five years from now. They need to keep this shit together NOW. USF did a lot of good to keep the Big East together.

Comparing to UConn is a strawman argument. I don't think anyone would pick them over UCF. The only argument is NCAA basketball units and that isn't worth a ton.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Haven't you been posting that "potential" post verbatim for about 10 years? This is coming from someone who thinks UCF has potential and will eventually be in a major league (as opposed to USF that is a joke).

And again the Big XII shouldn't care about what a team is like five years from now. They need to keep this shit together NOW. USF did a lot of good to keep the Big East together.

Comparing to UConn is a strawman argument. I don't think anyone would pick them over UCF. The only argument is NCAA basketball units and that isn't worth a ton.

I don't think you've been paying attention. First, UConn has been repeatedly mentioned throughout the media as a top candidate. That may have been more about the NYC TV market for a Big 12 Network, so UConn probably isn't as strong now. You guys like to approach this as fans, not as business people. It should be apparent to you by now that tradition and short-term on-field strength don't mean hardly anything compared to the economic value of a team over the length of the TV contract and the Grant of Rights.

And second, it is very much about 5 years or longer. The Grant of Rights is in place until 2025; they are trying to increase value in a way that will prevent the conference from breaking up at that point. What a team does for them next year is irrelevant; the Big 12 isn't breaking up next year, and they're not at risk of doing so. This is completely about the next 5-10 years and having a conference that is valuable enough at that point to stay together and get a better TV deal at that time.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I don't think you've been paying attention. First, UConn has been repeatedly mentioned throughout the media as a top candidate. That may have been more about the NYC TV market for a Big 12 Network, so UConn probably isn't as strong now. You guys like to approach this as fans, not as business people. It should be apparent to you by now that tradition and short-term on-field strength don't mean hardly anything compared to the economic value of a team over the length of the TV contract and the Grant of Rights.

And second, it is very much about 5 years or longer. The Grant of Rights is in place until 2025; they are trying to increase value in a way that will prevent the conference from breaking up at that point. What a team does for them next year is irrelevant; the Big 12 isn't breaking up next year, and they're not at risk of doing so. This is completely about the next 5-10 years and having a conference that is valuable enough at that point to stay together and get a better TV deal at that time.
Well you can talk TV markets all you want but it's irrelevant if the area doesn't care about the teams. Look at the disaster of the Pac-12 Networks. Are cable providers going to add a Big XII network around Orlando when UCF is second fiddle to the SEC? Orlando is a bigger market than SLC but I'd imagine probably comparable buys when it comes cable providers that would carry the Big XII network in that area.

Also if you've been paying attention, the Big XII is very interested in playoff odds. The bonus from getting a team into the semifinal is $6m and a $4m bonus for every extra team in a NY6 game. Those bonuses are probably more significant than the addition of those TV sets. Adding a team that just went 0-12 (despite endless POTENTIAL) probably isn't the best way to go forward for the league.

And you think the Big XII is safe from breaking up until 2025? :laughing:
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
Thanks to Time Warner and its stake in the Pac-12 network, I get every Pac-12 Network on my upstate NY cable provided by Time Warner. I think I've watched it once. :thumbsup:
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Well you can talk TV markets all you want but it's irrelevant if the area doesn't care about the teams. Look at the disaster of the Pac-12 Networks. Are cable providers going to add a Big XII network around Orlando when UCF is second fiddle to the SEC? Orlando is a bigger market than SLC but I'd imagine probably comparable buys when it comes cable providers that would carry the Big XII network in that area.

Also if you've been paying attention, the Big XII is very interested in playoff odds. The bonus from getting a team into the semifinal is $6m and a $4m bonus for every extra team in a NY6 game. Those bonuses are probably more significant than the addition of those TV sets. Adding a team that just went 0-12 (despite endless POTENTIAL) probably isn't the best way to go forward for the league.

And you think the Big XII is safe from breaking up until 2025? :laughing:

Dude, the Big 12 Network is dead; Boren said so himself. They are going to look into an internet-based network, but ESPN, Fox, etc. won't back a B12 Network because of the financial conditions around cable-cutters. But yeah, if there had been a B12 Network, Bright House would have had it in Orlando and Tampa, not a doubt about it. UCF has a distribution deal with Bright House where some UCF athletic events are shown on Bright House Sports Net.

Though it's not relevant since there's not going to be a B12 Network, your point about the bowl payouts > network payouts isn't accurate. That's $10m, as you say, and the value of Orlando + Tampa in terms of cable subscribers (and because Bright House has both Orlando and Tampa, you don't need both teams), would be $40.1m/year based on # of TV households * $1/month. The SEC Network gets >$1.40 per in-state subscriber, so if we just assume the B12 Network would get $1 and only get it in Orlando and Tampa (and not in South Florida, Ft. Myers-Naples, Jax, Tallahassee, Pensacola, etc.), you're at that $40m figure.

And finally, the Big 12 is looking at playoff odds from the standpoint of whether having a 13th data point helps move a team into the Top 4. They're not nearly as concerned about adding another team that is seen as a quality win for next year. While Top 25 wins are a major factor for the committee, trying to judge that based off of one season or something is silly for expansion purposes. They are looking for a team who has everything in place to be a Top 25 team consistently, and as I said previously, it's doubtful that BYU would be in the Big 12 because they can't recruit at the level to be able to compete at a P5 level every week. Maybe UCF won't be, but there's a much higher chance that UCF could be and could replicate TCU's success.
 
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silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Big 12 expansion talks cooling off

“We may meet again later in the summer, I don’t anticipate moving on expansion at that time,” Boren said. “I think it’s unlikely, now I don’t think it’s impossible, nothing is impossible when we all get together and put our heads together or if somebody comes forward that’s just a great star that wants to join the conference… but there’s no longer the urgency on expansion.”
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I assume Texas came around and realized the only way they were going to be able to keep the LHN and their position of influence over other conference members was in an expanded Big 12 instead of a broken one, so everybody has to do what the Horns want now. ESPN prolly also had some input, even independent of their investment in UT's network that doesn't show anything of interest.

Fuck it, let's just add errbody. BYU, Boise, CSU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF. And what are those? Sandwiches? Oh, buddy, what's the occasion? Some sort of sandwich party? Go bacon! Go bacon! Go bacon!
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
The indication is that they may want to have the new teams as early as 2017. Even if they go to 14, they may grab two available ones to grow right away. Obviously BYU could be available, but what about the other teams. What sort of buyouts or restrictions are in place with their current conferences?

Being a unanimous decision, it does make one wonder what caused everyone to flip from their earlier perceived stance.

The Big XII is in serious trouble. This move is about 6 years too late. This does mean the conference may still exist even if OU and Texas leave. But this is a vulnerable conference and the whole country knows it.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
I think the ACC getting its own network changed some minds in the Big 12. There won't be a Big 12 Network as long the LHN exists, but adding 2-4 schools and bringing back the championship game is at least an attempt to keep up with the other P5 conferences for the duration of the Big 12's Grant of Rights, which runs through 2025.
 

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
If the B12 adds only two, UH is fucked (again). If they add four I like our chances.

 
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jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
BYU and Cincinnati are easily the leading two candidates but far from locks. Taking my fandom out of it, since I like the Big XII, I think they should go to 14. But if I were one of the Big XII schools, I'd want to make sure teams 13 and 14 were worth it.

And I'd place no weight on the potential of a team.

:trollface:

The grant-of-rights locking in Clemson and Florida State (two schools that I think the Big XII had targeted to try and grab down the road) was more of a push than the ACC Network, IMO.

I'm very curious what made Texas change their mind, though. Perhaps some sorts of guarantees that LHN was safe? I know all they did was agree to look deeper, so Texas plus two other schools could still veto expansion down the road. But I really wonder what changed there.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
FWIW, an extension of the GoR past 2025 has come up as part of the expansion talks, and reportedly Texas and OU have said "no" to that. So maybe the Big 12 adds 4 to get to 14, so once OU and Texas leave in 5-10 years there will still be 12 schools. Or maybe they don't leave. I don't know.
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
FWIW, an extension of the GoR past 2025 has come up as part of the expansion talks, and reportedly Texas and OU have said "no" to that. So maybe the Big 12 adds 4 to get to 14, so once OU and Texas leave in 5-10 years there will still be 12 schools. Or maybe they don't leave. I don't know.

I've had this exact same thought. It's in the best interest of employees of the current conference as well as schools that could be left behind by the next round of expansion and realignment to get more teams so they are still viable if that happens.
 

Rutgers Mike

Dr. Sad
I've had this exact same thought. It's in the best interest of employees of the current conference as well as schools that could be left behind by the next round of expansion and realignment to get more teams so they are still viable if that happens.
Yeah, I said they should go to 16 on the Rutgers board I post on. I guess it depends on if they want to be a 4 time zone league, or just stick mostly central, with WVU being the lone Eastern time team.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
There's still rumors that Texas and OU basically have standing invites to the Big Ten. Don't know the veracity of those rumors, but if they are true, it would be one explanation for those schools' refusal to extend the Grant of Rights.

I hope we add Colorado State so I have an excuse to go to CO and hang out with @Travis7401 .
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Adding Colorado State to the Big XII has to be a rumor started by CSU. That makes almost no sense. But of course the Denver media is all on board with it!
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Yeah, I'm pretty sure CSU has done the reaching out, not the Big 12. But are they honestly that much worse than a lot of the Big 12's other options, at least if they expand by 4? None of the candidates are awesome.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
CSU doesn't really gain them anything. Colorado is pretty lukewarm for college football. There's not much of a fanbase with CSU, especially in comparison to many of the other schools mentioned. I also don't think CSU can be anything more than a Kansas type program in a power conference. Plus, Denver isn't a huge market and there's already a decent amount of Big XII fans there. BYU and any Florida school would be infinitely better.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
The No Sundays thing with BYU is a huge sticking point, plus travel distance.

Florida is a long way from the Big 12 footprint, even WVU.

Memphis is a shitty school in a shitty city, no matter how much money FedEx is willing to pump into the university.

Cincinnati is a decent school with decent sports and they're close to WVU but no one really cares about them, even in Cincinnati.

Houston is a commuter school with good football in an SEC and pro-centric city. Adding them would only hurt pretty much all of the conference members to an extent.

Connecticut is a large state school with great basketball in the middle of a ton of people, but their football sucks and those tons of people don't really care about them or college sports in general. Plus they're really far away.

New Mexico has bad academics and a small state population, plus basketball is way more important than football.


Not like any of the realistic options are great, anyway. CSU is just another in that pile.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
They've been brought up on OU boards because of their proximity, but I don't think the actual conference leadership is actually considering them. Then again, the Big 12 leaders have been so stupid about this whole situation, they might be.
 

Travis7401

Douglass Tagg
Community Liaison
There's still rumors that Texas and OU basically have standing invites to the Big Ten. Don't know the veracity of those rumors, but if they are true, it would be one explanation for those schools' refusal to extend the Grant of Rights.

I hope we add Colorado State so I have an excuse to go to CO and hang out with @Travis7401 .

I refuse to pay to watch bad footbaw, but I'll go tailgate and then drunk bike home :laughing:
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Kinda surprised the coaches like Houston so much. I guess for games in Houston for recruiting? Otherwise adding them benefits them way more than it does anyone else in the conference. No offense, coogr.
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
The No Sundays thing with BYU is a huge sticking point, plus travel distance.

Florida is a long way from the Big 12 footprint, even WVU.

Memphis is a shitty school in a shitty city, no matter how much money FedEx is willing to pump into the university.

Cincinnati is a decent school with decent sports and they're close to WVU but no one really cares about them, even in Cincinnati.

Houston is a commuter school with good football in an SEC and pro-centric city. Adding them would only hurt pretty much all of the conference members to an extent.

Connecticut is a large state school with great basketball in the middle of a ton of people, but their football sucks and those tons of people don't really care about them or college sports in general. Plus they're really far away.

New Mexico has bad academics and a small state population, plus basketball is way more important than football.


Not like any of the realistic options are great, anyway. CSU is just another in that pile.


I actually don't think New Mexico would be a terrible option. Albuquerque is a similarly-sized TV market to OKC, the basketball program is pretty good, and it seems like they have some decent facilities. Academics obviously don't matter if they are considering Memphis.
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Texas state politicians and some higher-ups at UT are pushing for Houston. Not surprised. I know some schools would like a game in Houston every other year as well for recruiting purposes. Heard that the invites (if there are any) will be extended sometime in September for the 2018 academic year, as several of the candidates require a 27-month notice to leave their current conference (The American).
 

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
The Sunday play thing was talked about in an excellent article earlier this year. While it does impact some sports, I think it's a smaller impact than many people seem to think it is.

No BYU, no Boise. Thanks.

I'm curious why no BYU. Can you elaborate?
 

silverwheels

PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
Apparently Texas is backing UH in exchange for a UT campus in Houston, LOL. May be why they did an about face on expansion, as they were previously alone or had one other school in their favor on the topic. What a mess this is.
 
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