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2019-20 Club Soccer (UCL, EL, Libertadores, CCL & Domestic Leagues)

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
#1
Out with the old and in with the new.

With 3 of the big 5 leagues becoming dominated by one team, talk of a European Super League has again come to the forefront. I don't necessarily want it to happen but I fear we are heading in that direction.

If we do one, I think the fairest way would be taking the top 18 teams of the all-time Champions League table (1993 to present) from the group stage to the final.

Those teams would be (points earned - titles won):

Real Madrid (517 - 7)
Barcelona (497 - 4)
Bayern (449 - 2)
Manchester United (410 - 2)
---------------------
Juventus (327 - 1)
Arsenal (290 - 0)
Porto (286 - 1)
Chelsea (276 - 1)
Milan (271 - 3)
---------------------
Liverpool (196 - 2)
Lyon (196 - 0)
Internazionale (184 - 1)
Dortmund (183 - 1)
Paris (176 - 0)
Ajax (167 - 1)
Valencia (165 - 0)
---------------------
Atletico (149 - 0)
---------------------
Olympiacos (135 - 0)

The problem with Olympiacos is that they don't compare favorably to the other teams.

1. They only have 1 quarterfinal appearance and no semifinal appearances. Everyone else has at least 4 quarterfinals and one semifinal.
2. Their goal difference is -57, the next lowest is Ajax at +23.
3. Win percentage is 33%, the next lowest is Ajax at 39%
4. PPG is 1.16, the next lowest is Ajax at 1.46

If we get rid of Olympiacos, who do we replace them with? The next seven teams (Roma, Benfica, Leverkusen, PSV, Dynamo Kyiv, Shakhtar and Galatasaray) all have similar profiles (negative GD, under 37% win percentage, less than 1.34 PPG). The next team that has a resume close to the other 17 teams? Manchester City. They've made the knockout stage 6/8 times with 3 quarterfinals and 1 semifinal to show for it. Their goal difference is +37, win percentage is 46% and PPG is 1.58. I'm fine replacing Olympiacos with Manchester City.

My European Super League would look like this:

England (5): Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United
Spain (4): Atletico, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia
Italy (3): Internazionale, Juventus, Milan
France (2): Lyon, Paris
Germany (2): Bayern, Dortmund
Netherlands (1): Ajax
Portugal (1): Porto

Yes, the Bundesliga is under-represented but can you make a case for anyone else? Leverkusen and Schalke have never won the Bundesliga and the other teams don't have the pedigree those two have in the UCL.

It should also be noted that the only former champion that was not mentioned was Marseille. Then again, that title was tainted away.

Anyone want to make a suggestion to my plan above, regardless how you feel about a Super League?
 

Yankee151

TWINK Stadium
#2
That's probably the distribution I go with, though I don't see why they wouldn't go with 20 to round it off, which would probably mean +Benfica and then I guess Marseille as a former G14 member makes the most sense. Presumably there's some sort of Second League at the very least to provide Pro/Rel? I can't imagine a pool of teams like Roma, Schalke, Sporting, Monaco, Eindhoven/Feyenoord, Spurs, etc. being happy suddenly being a big fish in a small pond of their own domestic leagues, in addition to teams that are comfortably second tier but still decent draws like Basel, Celtic, the 3 Istanbul teams, CSKA/Zenit. Travel may be an issue if a 'Europa Super League' also happens (3x a season is fine, 18x cross continent not so much) so maybe its broken up into smaller regions with a big fancy finals

I can't imagine those clubs want pro/rel if it happens, but I hope there's at least something to guard against atrophy. No one wants to watch Arsenal, Lyon, and Valencia (And lets hope Man U, but) wallow at the bottom of the standings for the next century.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
#3
I went with 18 teams for a couple of reasons:

1) It’s what FIFA wants. I kind of agree with them here. Only England can get away with 20 teams in a league. No way in hell Italy should have 20 and France and Spain probably shouldn’t have 20 either.

2) It’s just the way the profiles of the teams ended up. There was a big difference between 17-18 but 18-25 all had similar profiles.

Yeah I could see a second division being set up or alternatively the top 36 or 40 teams being split up North and South with the winner of each league meeting up in the final.

Jovic to Real Madrid for 60 million euros on a six year deal.

Lopetegui to coach Sevilla next year.

Apparently Beckham wants to sign Messi and Suarez to Inter Miami when their contracts expire.
 
Last edited:

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
#4
Pro/rel in that league with "challenge" ties from domestic winners could work. Probably would maybe have challenge ties as well or another competition between the best of SL2 and worst of SL1 face off so there isn't any direct relegation.

The truth is Juve/PSG spend 2x anyone else in their leagues, Bayern was really poor this year by their standards and still won their league. So 3/5 leagues have no interest in terms of the title at this point.

I was just in Japan and saw one of their Cups set up with the groups then knockout stages. That could work with domestic leagues too to keep Real Madrid still in a domestic competition that is a little different than a regular domestic cup. You'd significantly raise the interest in cup competitions too.

I don't think travel is a huge issue. They'd all be on the best charters. Your travel won't be like how it is now with a league match the weekend before AND after. Hell MLS can do it flying commercial in much more difficult climates.
 

Yankee151

TWINK Stadium
#5
I guess so, but I was more worried about a Second Division travel-wise. Probably would bring in Europa League levels of tv money so there may not be enough to entice teams to do so
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
#6
Yeah and I bet domestic leagues would garner more interest. You could do the bottom 4 of the 20 team league plus 16 teams in some sort (Domestic champs/winners of qualification playoffs) of 5 groups of 4 competition at the end of the season. Each group winner gets a spot in the Super League. During that time, you have the Super league playoffs with top 16 teams?

Just throwing out stuff but that might work better than the SL1/SL2 set up.
 

Yankee151

TWINK Stadium
#7
That could be fine too, but maybe make the Pro/Rel tournament once every 3 years, or something? Would seem super unsustainable without a significant parachute payment
 

Yankee151

TWINK Stadium
#8
Benfica have made 88M fancy Es this offseason solely through players not on their roster. Jovic, Talsica, and Jimenez. If Joao Felix leaves this year, add another 100M. Shame the money just goes back towards random teenage South Americans to do this all over again in 4 years.
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
#9
Benfica have made 88M fancy Es this offseason solely through players not on their roster. Jovic, Talsica, and Jimenez. If Joao Felix leaves this year, add another 100M. Shame the money just goes back towards random teenage South Americans to do this all over again in 4 years.

Didn't Benfica only get like 7m euros for Jovic? I thought Eintract exercised the option on his loan and then turned around and sold him to Real.
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
#10
Benfica have made 88M fancy Es this offseason solely through players not on their roster. Jovic, Talsica, and Jimenez. If Joao Felix leaves this year, add another 100M. Shame the money just goes back towards random teenage South Americans to do this all over again in 4 years.
Why give up on a successful bidness model?
 

Yankee151

TWINK Stadium
#11
I think it ended up being 16M in total since the initial 6M was just the selling fee, then the rest came from a 30% transfer profit fee when Frankfurt sold to Real.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
#15
Anyone see the mess VAR has caused in the CAF Champions League Final between Wydad and Esperance?

Between this and the Boca Juniors-River Plate debacle, it hasn’t been a good year for club continental finals.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
#20
Yeah if Rui Fonte doesn’t come back (but he’s not going back to Fulham, so he’s going somewhere) and they sell Pepe (which I’m sure they will), there are minutes to go around.

It’s eerily similar to Schalke coming into this year though, so I’ll try not to be too optimistic yet
 

Yankee151

TWINK Stadium
#26
Atleti to pay 126M fancy Es to Benfica for Joao Felix. Benfica will be delighted to invest that money in order to produce a player like Joao Felix.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
#35
De Ligt to Juve for 70m. Ajax would have gotten higher fees from Barcelona or PSG but Juve was only club that would satisfy Raiola's salary demands.

Oh fluff.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
#36
Barcelona’s going to regret missing out on De Ligt.

They won’t regret having to pay his wages though.

Barcelona’s board has no fucking clue what they’re doing.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
#37
Barcelona’s going to regret missing out on De Ligt.

They won’t regret having to pay his wages though.

Barcelona’s board has no fucking clue what they’re doing.
He wanted to go there. He is going to be a gr8 CB for the next 10-12 years. I just have no clue what they're doing.

I guess the reason was for a 19-year old the salary demands were too much and they didn't want to piss everyone off. But Ajax and Barca had agreed to the fees and everything until Mino hijacked it.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
#46
AZ/Utrecht couldn't beat Swedish/Serbian sides at home so yeah-- Dutch football totally screwed again.
 
#47
Just saw that Union Berlin got promoted to the Bundesliga. Very cool club the was the alternative to the Stasi backed club Dynamo Berlin in East Germany. Poor club with a very committed fan base that even volunteered to work on stadium upgrades. And the stadium is called the Stadium at the Old Forester's House.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
#50
Ajax beat PAOK 3-2 (5-4). Entertaining as hell tie. Played pretty well, got 3 PKs (2 were 100%, one probably 75%) and barely got through.

Just stinks an undefeated team from Greece had to face double winners/CL semifinalists in the 3rd qualification round. Not fair to either team but that's the system.