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Conference Excretion Thread

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
I'm interested to see who the Missouri Valley picks up if that's the case. Probably one of Illinois-Chicago, Milwaukee or Valparaiso.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
I'm interested to see who the Missouri Valley picks up if that's the case. Probably one of Illinois-Chicago, Milwaukee or Valparaiso.

Is the Valley enough of an upgrade for a Horizon team to want to leave and pay buyouts and entry fees? I'm thinking they'd probably target a Summit school - IUPUI, Western Illinois, or maybe Omaha. My other thought would be that St. Louis might leave the A-10 to get into a more geographically friendly conference. The travel has to be a struggle going to the East Coast for most every game.
 
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goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
Is the Valley enough of an upgrade for a Horizon team to want to leave and pay buyouts and entry fees? I'm thinking they'd probably target a Summit school - IUPUI, Western Illinois, or maybe Omaha.

FWIW, 2016-17 Conference RPI:

Missouri Valley - 12
Horizon - 18
Summit - 19
 

Renegade

Charge on!
FWIW, 2016-17 Conference RPI:

Missouri Valley - 12
Horizon - 18
Summit - 19

So my thought is that those are all one bid conferences. They might steal a bid occasionally if they have an elite team that loses in the tourney, but otherwise, they're all basically the same from a bid level. The Valley might occasionally do 2-3 bids if things really go right for them, but Illinois State sure learned how the committee feels about the Valley now.

So realizing that you're probably not joining a conference that is going to consistently get multiple bids, and none of them have a TV contract that is meaningful from a dollar standpoint, I don't know that there's a good cost/benefit to paying exit and entry fees to change conferences. It's just a shell game at that point - doesn't matter which conference you're in, the payout is about the same.

Now, I think the Summit is somewhat unstable in a way that the Horizon is not. So I could see Summit teams wanting to move to the Valley. Whereas the Horizon is mostly similar schools in a fairly compact geographical area, the Summit is spread out with a diverse group of schools with difficult travel. So I'd say IUPUI, Western Illinois, and Omaha seem like the best fits for the Valley.

The only exception to this is St. Louis. Yes, the A-10 is a multiple bid league and a stronger league all around, but St. Louis sticks out like a sore thumb as this geographic loner with considerable travel to the East Coast (mostly major cities at least). I'm not sure if that's a struggle for them or not, but they're the one school I could see choosing to downgrade to address travel and being in a much more compact league for regional competition.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
Would not mind Saint Louis and Connecticut going to the Big East but no way the Big East gets rid of the double round-robin.

Better yet, the Big East goes back to its pre-Miami form and a Midwest equivalent is formed with Butler, Creighton, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Notre Dame, Saint Louis and Xavier. Add Detroit and Tulsa if you want 10 teams.

The above won't happen now but could have in the 80's if DePaul and Notre Dame hadn't been so insistent on staying independent. That set their programs back years.
 
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Renegade

Charge on!
Would not mind Saint Louis and Connecticut going to the Big East but no way the Big East gets rid of the double round-robin.

Better yet, the Big East goes back to its pre-Miami form and a Midwest equivalent is formed with Butler, Creighton, Dayton, DePaul, Marquette, Notre Dame, Saint Louis and Xavier. Add Detroit and Tulsa if you want 10 teams.

The above won't happen now but could have in the 80's if DePaul and Notre Dame hadn't been so insistent on staying independent. That set their programs back years.

UConn isn't leaving the American unless they intend to commit football suicide. There's zero chance they'd be allowed to be FB-only.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
I don't think they're leaving either but there have been rumors suggesting they might.

From their standpoint, I understand why they might be looking at going back. They're isolated from all their old Big East rivals and the only east coast team in the American (Temple) they don't really have a rivalry with. The Syracuse, Georgetown and St. John's games have been replaced with Houston, Tulsa and East Carolina.

In my opinion Connecticut really should be in the ACC but that only happens if Notre Dame joins for football and Boston College stops being a bitch.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
UConn should commit football suicide. Or see if some fuckshit FCS conference will take them for football only. Basketball needs to be in the Big East. This American shit is awful.

But yeah, they should be in the ACC anyway. Fuck BC.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
UConn should commit football suicide. Or see if some fuckshit FCS conference will take them for football only. Basketball needs to be in the Big East. This American shit is awful.

But yeah, they should be in the ACC anyway. Fuck BC.

If the American is so bad, maybe UConn should be doing better than 9-9 with a 6th place finish.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Knew that was coming.

They won the conference last year, but yeah, because they suck this year, the American is too hard for them. UConn has won two titles in the last seven years. Has anybody else in the American ever even won one? UConn should be playing Georgetown, Nova, Butler, St. John's, etc. not fucking ECU and Tulsa.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Knew that was coming.

They won the conference last year, but yeah, because they suck this year, the American is too hard for them. UConn has won two titles in the last seven years. Has anybody else in the American ever even won one? UConn should be playing Georgetown, Nova, Butler, St. John's, etc. not fucking ECU and Tulsa.

I don't think the American is too hard for UConn, but I also think it's disingenuous of UConn fans to blame the AAC for UConn's struggles. There's nothing in the AAC holding back UConn. It's a multibid conference even with two of its traditional powers - Memphis and UConn - having down years.

And, you're comparing Georgetown to ECU, which is absurd. At least compare the tops of the conferences to each other - Cincinnati, Memphis, SMU, Houston. It may not be as deep as the Big East with a few teams no one really wants to play like ECU and Tulane (at least Tulane is trying by hiring Mike Dunleavy), but that's just the realistic cost of an all-sports conference. If Big East basketball means so much more to UConn, then they should move FB to FCS or the MAC (if they'd take them...I doubt it). And frankly, I'm not sure the Big East wants a public school...there's a lot of advantage to not having any conference business subject to public disclosure and being able to do things completely in private.

If Wichita is indeed added, that will add another strong program. I get that UConn doesn't have much history with many of the AAC programs, but at that point, you're talking about a conference that should be getting 5 bids/year if everyone is performing as they should. That's pretty damned good to have that and have a home in a good conference for football.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
So, the big public school should be playing smaller Catlick schools?

Butler isn't Catholic. If the Big East cared more about religious affiliation than basketball prowess, they wouldn't have invited them. But regardless, yes, considering they were in a conference together for over 30 years. Also, St. John's and DePaul have over 20,000 students, it's not like UConn would be playing a bunch of schools with enrollments of 5,000.

I don't think the American is too hard for UConn, but I also think it's disingenuous of UConn fans to blame the AAC for UConn's struggles. There's nothing in the AAC holding back UConn. It's a multibid conference even with two of its traditional powers - Memphis and UConn - having down years.

And, you're comparing Georgetown to ECU, which is absurd. At least compare the tops of the conferences to each other - Cincinnati, Memphis, SMU, Houston. It may not be as deep as the Big East with a few teams no one really wants to play like ECU and Tulane (at least Tulane is trying by hiring Mike Dunleavy), but that's just the realistic cost of an all-sports conference. If Big East basketball means so much more to UConn, then they should move FB to FCS or the MAC (if they'd take them...I doubt it). And frankly, I'm not sure the Big East wants a public school...there's a lot of advantage to not having any conference business subject to public disclosure and being able to do things completely in private.

If Wichita is indeed added, that will add another strong program. I get that UConn doesn't have much history with many of the AAC programs, but at that point, you're talking about a conference that should be getting 5 bids/year if everyone is performing as they should. That's pretty damned good to have that and have a home in a good conference for football.

I just said they should move football down to FCS. They suck anyway.

The top of the Big East is easily better than the AAC and it's not even close. Houston and SMU have 2 NCAA appearances between them in the last 25 years and you're touting them as the cream of the crop of the AAC. That should tell you something.

I don't give a shit about whether or not the American is making UConn basketball worse or whatever. I care about conferences that make at least some sense geographically and culturally and it makes no sense to have UConn regularly play teams in Greensboro, NC, Tulsa, OK, Houston, TX, and now potentially Wichita, KS and act like anyone is supposed to give a fuck. That's how you get dumb, manufactured shit like the CIVIL CONFLICT. UConn has way more history with the Big East. They were one of the founding members of the conference, but apparently I'm supposed to believe that they don't fit because they're a public school. They were already in the conference with those teams. They should be in the ACC, but because BC is a school for whiners, that's not an option. So the next best thing is to go to a conference that prioritizes your best sport, has less travel coast, is a better cultural fit, and that you have a history with. UConn is never going to be good at football unless they trip over their dick and miraculously hire the next PJ Fleck and even then, that coach would just leave for a better job. They have no chance competing in football with teams in Florida, Texas, Louisiana, and North Carolina.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Butler isn't Catholic. If the Big East cared more about religious affiliation than basketball prowess, they wouldn't have invited them. But regardless, yes, considering they were in a conference together for over 30 years.



I just said they should move football down to FCS. They suck anyway.

The top of the Big East is easily better than the AAC and it's not even close. Houston and SMU have 2 NCAA appearances between them in the last 25 years and you're touting them as the cream of the crop of the AAC. That should tell you something.

I don't give a shit about whether or not the American is making UConn basketball worse or whatever. I care about conferences that make at least some sense geographically and culturally and it makes no sense to have UConn regularly play teams in Greensboro, NC, Tulsa, OK, Houston, TX, and now potentially Wichita, KS and act like anyone is supposed to give a fuck. That's how you get dumb, manufactured shit like the CIVIL CONFLICT. UConn has way more history with the Big East. They were one of the founding members of the conference, but apparently I'm supposed to believe that they don't fit because they're a public school. They were already in the conference with those teams. They should be in the ACC, but because BC is a school for whiners, that's not an option. So the next best thing is to go to a conference that prioritizes your best sport, has less travel coast, is a better cultural fit, and that you have a history with. UConn is never going to be good at football unless they trip over their dick and miraculously hire the next PJ Fleck and even then, that coach would just leave for a better job. They have no chance competing in football with teams in Florida, Texas, Louisiana, and North Carolina.

:dunno: Works for me, we wouldn't miss UConn football. I'm all for getting rid of destabilizing forces and UConn with its whining appears to be at the top of the list.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I mean, you would because it's an easy win. But the American should add Marshall or ODU or something, makes way more sense than UConn.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
I mean, you would because it's an easy win. But the American should add Marshall or ODU or something, makes way more sense than UConn.

I think Edsall will have them tough, even though I don't think he will recruit for dick. When he was at his best at UConn, they had the advantage of being an AQ conference. Now he's going to get scraps and have to coach them up, which I think he can do enough to be decent in the AAC and give everyone a tough game, though I doubt he will win the conference except by some fluke.

UConn is an infinitely better member than anyone that is available because of the basketball strength, but if they do leave, we'll have a few decent choices. Since TV will drive the bus, I'd say Old Dominion is probably tops, since they are in a big city, have some actual fans, and have been successful since restarting FB. Behind them is probably UTSA and North Texas. Other than Old Dominion, I'd rather see candidates like Southern Miss, App State, Georgia Southern, or Louisiana Tech, which are more established programs with fans and histories of success. But I'm sure those are all non-starters being in college towns.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
NCAA Units at this point are starting to mean about as much as TV contracts for smaller basketball leagues.

VCU/Dayton would help too IMO. Outside of that, I can't think of anyone that would help the AAC.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
NCAA Units at this point are starting to mean about as much as TV contracts for smaller basketball leagues.

VCU/Dayton would help too IMO. Outside of that, I can't think of anyone that would help the AAC.

I see Wichita as being the most available since the A-10 isn't unstable and getting devalued like the Valley has. But I think Dayton is the best target. Very strong support and a much better history of long-term success through multiple coaches. Wichita had been irrelevant for decades until Marshall showed up -- they could well turn into ECU if he leaves. And VCU is a question mark as to their ability to maintain long-term success as well, though they're probably in a good spot to see continued success.

Otherwise, there's not many other options. George Mason has fallen off since Larranaga left and Davidson has lost its touch. The College of Charleston is on an upswing, and maybe they'll recapture their late 90s glory days, but even if they do, it's a small market. -- at least for me, I'd love CofC just because it's driveable and a great destination.

Had UAB not restarted football and kicked more resources into basketball, I could have seen them as a target. They have a good history, though it's been a number of years now since they've been good and are mired in their overall athletic mediocrity. I'm interested to see if the new stadium and increased booster support will make a difference in their actual fan support and program success. If they do manage to succeed, they could definitely be an all-sports target in the future.
 

killerBsaturn

Touchdown Jesus
I doubt the Basketball piece of the AAC TV Contract is worth much more than the A-10's TV contract if at all. AAC is $1.5M per team per year for Football and Basketball, whereas A-10 is $350K per team per year.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
I doubt the Basketball piece of the AAC TV Contract is worth much more than the A-10's TV contract if at all. AAC is $1.5M per team per year for Football and Basketball, whereas A-10 is $350K per team per year.

Indeed, it will be interesting to see the impact of a (mostly) stable conference for the new TV contract as well as folding Navy into the contract. A few years ago in this situation, I'd have expected a 7-10x increase, but I think it will be minimal at best given ESPN's fiscal conditions. I'm hopeful Fox or Turner (who just won the Champions League contract) will get on it in a meaningful way. If it's NBC or CBS, I'd just as soon stay with ESPN for less money because their distribution sucks and CBS-CS runs a ridiculous amount of commercials that really stretch the games out.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
Wichita State is officially in the AAC/American. I can see a case for divisions to help with travel, but I doubt it happens.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Wichita State is officially in the AAC/American. I can see a case for divisions to help with travel, but I doubt it happens.

Yeah, I'd prefer divisions, but it sounds like they will not be happening. They'll remain at the same number of conference games as well.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
UMass is a more logical addition but will never happen as long as UCONN is a member.

Well, the main point was to even up the basketball side to 12, not to add another football member. Regardless, I don't see any value in UMass. They aren't a basketball power and never were except for a few years when Cal cheated his ass off. Their football team is not good to say the least. If we wanted to add a Northeastern football school, I'd imagine Army for FB-only would be more valuable than UMass on the TV contract, and it's a better road trip.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
There was a point in time adding UMass, 2-3 basketball schools and NOT adding Tulane + ECU could've kept the Catholic 7 and made sense. It would've been hard to keep both sides happy but I thought they could've had a chance to make it work for a bit.

Now I really don't think there's a reason to add UMass.

I do think ESPN won't really bid on the rights unless they get a great deal on it. The one reason I might take a bit less to stay with ESPN if I were the AAC is ESPN is poised to lose the Big Ten (and probably other rights), so the AAC would get some better TV selections and times. Unless you get a couple games before/after Notre Dame on NBC (or on non-home weeks), I'd very much stay away from NBCSN. Turner would be interesting and I wonder if they want football again. FS1 is bad because they're already packed with Big Ten/XII/Pac.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
There was a point in time adding UMass, 2-3 basketball schools and NOT adding Tulane + ECU could've kept the Catholic 7 and made sense. It would've been hard to keep both sides happy but I thought they could've had a chance to make it work for a bit.

Now I really don't think there's a reason to add UMass.

I do think ESPN won't really bid on the rights unless they get a great deal on it. The one reason I might take a bit less to stay with ESPN if I were the AAC is ESPN is poised to lose the Big Ten (and probably other rights), so the AAC would get some better TV selections and times. Unless you get a couple games before/after Notre Dame on NBC (or on non-home weeks), I'd very much stay away from NBCSN. Turner would be interesting and I wonder if they want football again. FS1 is bad because they're already packed with Big Ten/XII/Pac.

I'd rank it as:

ESPN - #1 in publicity and worth taking an offer that is a little smaller than the others. Between losing content and having the best streaming platform, definitely the best reach.
Turner - TBS and TNT have the best distribution of any channel listed, and there's no competition on those networks. They're not traditional sports networks, but the platform is there.
Fox - FS1 has the best non-ESPN reach, but like you say, full of other properties. I'd foresee a lot of FS2 games, which is iffy to me. That's like a shit start time to be on ESPN-News, which we can just as well just be on ESPN-N.
NBC - NBCSN is well distributed and they have a great streaming platform, but it's just one channel. You need games on the Peacock to make it work.
CBS - Garbage. No amount of money would make me want to be a CBS property.
 

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
I do think ESPN won't really bid on the rights unless they get a great deal on it. The one reason I might take a bit less to stay with ESPN if I were the AAC is ESPN is poised to lose the Big Ten (and probably other rights), so the AAC would get some better TV selections and times. Unless you get a couple games before/after Notre Dame on NBC (or on non-home weeks), I'd very much stay away from NBCSN. Turner would be interesting and I wonder if they want football again. FS1 is bad because they're already packed with Big Ten/XII/Pac.

Less?

tenor.gif
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Sure -- take more money from CBS and have your games on CBSSN so 20,000 people watch it (or the same exact thing with NBCSN). That's smart business for an extra $100,000/year.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I'd rank it as:

ESPN - #1 in publicity and worth taking an offer that is a little smaller than the others. Between losing content and having the best streaming platform, definitely the best reach.
Turner - TBS and TNT have the best distribution of any channel listed, and there's no competition on those networks. They're not traditional sports networks, but the platform is there.
Fox - FS1 has the best non-ESPN reach, but like you say, full of other properties. I'd foresee a lot of FS2 games, which is iffy to me. That's like a shit start time to be on ESPN-News, which we can just as well just be on ESPN-N.
NBC - NBCSN is well distributed and they have a great streaming platform, but it's just one channel. You need games on the Peacock to make it work.
CBS - Garbage. No amount of money would make me want to be a CBS property.
Yeah - I'd agree with all of this. If Big Ten and others continues to leave ESPN, AAC will get better games on there. They already get a good amount of Thursday/Friday and they've given big games a good amount of coverage.

Turner would be I think a very good option. AAC will absolutely be buried on FS2 (with maybe a couple FOX games early) if they go FOX. Pac-12 and Big XII have enough problems getting good games at good times plus adding the Big Ten? AAC will get buried.
 

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
I agree that staying w/ESPN is the right move, but why should we happily take less that the pittance we're receiving now?
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I was talking taking less vs offers from Fox, NBC, CBS. I actually think Turner would be a great spot though and wouldn't take less to go to ESPN vs. them.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Pretty good move IMO for AAC... with the TV contract being so low, it's worth it to add the NCAA units to divide up basketball piece of the pie one more way. There's talk too of Wichita adding football.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Heard from a UCF source that AAC commish wants to add either North Texas or Charlotte, presumably for the TV markets. Strong opposition from UCF, Cincy, Memphis, & Houston on those. They really want an all-out push for BYU or a solid MWC team.

I feel like App is the best add. TV markets are meaningless; way more people will tune in to watch an App State game than a flipping Charlotte or Tulsa game. Need to put good product on the field first and foremost.
 

Snorky's Shame

Well-Known Member
Heard from a UCF source that AAC commish wants to add either North Texas or Charlotte, presumably for the TV markets. Strong opposition from UCF, Cincy, Memphis, & Houston on those. They really want an all-out push for BYU or a solid MWC team.

I feel like App is the best add. TV markets are meaningless; way more people will tune in to watch an App State game than a flipping Charlotte or Tulsa game. Need to put good product on the field first and foremost.

Why North Texas? Doesn’t Southern Methodist cover the Dallas market already.

Kind of wish they get Brigham Young but they probably see themselves as too good for the AAC which is sad because there’s no way in hell they’re getting into the PAC-12 or Big XII. Utah is now the premier program in the state which is hard to fathom if you grew up in the 80’s or 90’s.

Also with Connecticut gone, Temple just seems an odd fit now in the American.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Why North Texas? Doesn’t Southern Methodist cover the Dallas market already.

Kind of wish they get Brigham Young but they probably see themselves as too good for the AAC which is sad because there’s no way in hell they’re getting into the PAC-12 or Big XII. Utah is now the premier program in the state which is hard to fathom if you grew up in the 80’s or 90’s.

Also with Connecticut gone, Temple just seems an odd fit now in the American.

Beats the shit out of me on UNT or Charlotte. Old Dominion seems like better fit than either of those with decent fan support and a new state for the AAC. Either way, I’d rather add a team that plays good football like App.

Temple fits alright when you think about Navy right there. I wish they’d build a right-sized stadium though.

Anyway, there is a rumor that if the MWC TV deal tanks that Air Force and Colorado State would be interested. Only thing that sucks about either of those is that it will shift Memphis to the East creating a stacked East (Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, Temple, and ECU) and a relatively weak West (AFA/CSU, Houston, Tulane, SMU, Navy, and Tulsa). Even @coogrfan and his boys can’t even choke that too often.
 

Rutgers Mike

Dr. Sad
Beats the shit out of me on UNT or Charlotte. Old Dominion seems like better fit than either of those with decent fan support and a new state for the AAC. Either way, I’d rather add a team that plays good football like App.

Temple fits alright when you think about Navy right there. I wish they’d build a right-sized stadium though.

Anyway, there is a rumor that if the MWC TV deal tanks that Air Force and Colorado State would be interested. Only thing that sucks about either of those is that it will shift Memphis to the East creating a stacked East (Cincy, Memphis, UCF, USF, Temple, and ECU) and a relatively weak West (AFA/CSU, Houston, Tulane, SMU, Navy, and Tulsa). Even @coogrfan and his boys can’t even choke that too often.
ODU has been terrible but they make sense. Football wise, App State is probably the best eastern option. Army also makes sense if you can convince them
 
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