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2017-18 NBA Thread

jamesnathan

jamesnathan

Resident Mormon
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kella

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
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MSUFanatic said:
The opening night games were Boston v. Cavs, and Rockets v. GSW.
Click to expand...

lol, I had no idea. Ridiculous. I mean it's fine that the season + playoffs produce the 4 best teams for the finals, but it's just kinda boring to me to me.
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
Sixers should definitely try and get Lebron, but Simmons is an awful pairing with him

I imagine the sell is that Simmons can take some of the playmaking off of Lebron to keep him fresh and get to play off ball. But Simmons off-ball is worthless, so when Lebron tries to take over, it’ll be 4v5 on offense.
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
+240 for the Celtics this series. I’m literally playing with the house money after the Sixers series, but they still haven’t lost a home game this playoffs. Even money today to win

I’m interested to see how the coaches approach this one. Lue built his entire game plan last year around switching IT on screens and attacking him. Can’t happen this year since the C’s already switch everything. I’m guessing Morris comes into the starting lineup since Baynes will match Thompson. Stevens destroyed Marco Belinelli last series, so I imagine he’ll have the same plan with Korver.

Horford has defended Greek Freak, Simmons, and probably Lebron in three straight series. It’s too bad that @OU11 says the C’s would have to pair a pick with him to move that contract since he’s so bad
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
Oh never mind it was evil again

evil1 said:
I think the original argument was that Boston could always trade Horford if they need more cap space, particularly if they trade for Jimmy Butler and add Gordon Hayward. I disagree. I think it would be incredibly difficult to trade Horford unless it is the last year of his contract (Horford's deal expires in 2020). Horford is scheduled to make approximately $28 million over the next three years.

While there generally may be a market for big men who can shoot, there isn't a market for players with a $28 million price tag. Good luck finding a trading partner for that, especially if Boston has already traded most of their assets to get Jimmy Butler in the first place (the original argument).
Click to expand...

How can one person be wrong about so many things?
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
My god Tatum is so fucking good. Probably the greatest 19 year old season of all time and without a doubt the greatest 19 year old playoff run.
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
NML said:
Horford has defended Greek Freak, Simmons, and probably Lebron in three straight series. It’s too bad that @OU11 says the C’s would have to pair a pick with him to move that contract since he’s so bad
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? YOU were saying that as well:

NML said:
Horford had, what, four max offers last summer?

And again, I said they [the Celtics] have plenty of picks to convince someone to take him [Horford]. I'm not oblivious that he's overpaid.
Click to expand...

OU11 said:
Sure if they want to send picks for someone to take him someone will. I just don't think there is a huge market for him alone
Click to expand...

NML said:
Agreed
Click to expand...
 
MSUFanatic

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
NML said:
My god Tatum is so fucking good. Probably the greatest 19 year old season of all time and without a doubt the greatest 19 year old playoff run.
Click to expand...

The hyperbole in this thread is insane.

[xtable]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=28x@}Rk{/td}
{td=242x@}Player{/td}
{td=54x@}Season{/td}
{td=31x@}Age{/td}
{td=38x@}Tm{/td}
{td=34x@}Lg{/td}
{td=53x@}PTS/G{/td}
{td=53x@}AST/G{/td}
{td=53x@}TRB/G{/td}
{td=53x@}STLS/G{/td}
{td=53x@}BLK/G{/td}
{td=53x@}TOV/G{/td}
{td=44x@}G{/td}
{td=44x@}GS{/td}
{td=44x@}MP{/td}
{td=62x@}FG%{/td}
{td=62x@}2P%{/td}
{td=62x@}3P%{/td}
{td=62x@}eFG%{/td}
{td=62x@}FT%{/td}
{td=62x@}TS%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}1{/td}
{td}Carmelo Anthony{/td}
{td}2003-04{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}DEN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}21{/td}
{td}2.8{/td}
{td}6.1{/td}
{td}1.1829{/td}
{td}0.5{/td}
{td}3.0122{/td}
{td}82{/td}
{td}82{/td}
{td}2995{/td}
{td}0.426{/td}
{td}0.444{/td}
{td}0.322{/td}
{td}0.449{/td}
{td}0.777{/td}
{td}0.509{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2{/td}
{td}LeBron James{/td}
{td}2003-04{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}CLE{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}20.9{/td}
{td}5.9{/td}
{td}5.5{/td}
{td}1.6456{/td}
{td}0.7342{/td}
{td}3.4557{/td}
{td}79{/td}
{td}79{/td}
{td}3122{/td}
{td}0.417{/td}
{td}0.438{/td}
{td}0.29{/td}
{td}0.438{/td}
{td}0.754{/td}
{td}0.488{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}3{/td}
{td}Kevin Durant{/td}
{td}2007-08{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}SEA{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}20.3{/td}
{td}2.4{/td}
{td}4.4{/td}
{td}0.975{/td}
{td}0.9375{/td}
{td}2.9{/td}
{td}80{/td}
{td}80{/td}
{td}2768{/td}
{td}0.43{/td}
{td}0.455{/td}
{td}0.288{/td}
{td}0.451{/td}
{td}0.873{/td}
{td}0.519{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4{/td}
{td}Kyrie Irving{/td}
{td}2011-12{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}CLE{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}18.5{/td}
{td}5.4{/td}
{td}3.7{/td}
{td}1.0588{/td}
{td}0.3922{/td}
{td}3.1373{/td}
{td}51{/td}
{td}51{/td}
{td}1558{/td}
{td}0.469{/td}
{td}0.491{/td}
{td}0.399{/td}
{td}0.517{/td}
{td}0.872{/td}
{td}0.566{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}5{/td}
{td}Andrew Wiggins{/td}
{td}2014-15{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}MIN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}16.9{/td}
{td}2.1{/td}
{td}4.6{/td}
{td}1.0488{/td}
{td}0.6098{/td}
{td}2.1585{/td}
{td}82{/td}
{td}82{/td}
{td}2969{/td}
{td}0.437{/td}
{td}0.453{/td}
{td}0.31{/td}
{td}0.454{/td}
{td}0.76{/td}
{td}0.517{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}6{/td}
{td}Stephon Marbury{/td}
{td}1996-97{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}MIN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}15.8{/td}
{td}7.8{/td}
{td}2.7{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}0.2836{/td}
{td}3.1343{/td}
{td}67{/td}
{td}64{/td}
{td}2324{/td}
{td}0.408{/td}
{td}0.434{/td}
{td}0.354{/td}
{td}0.466{/td}
{td}0.727{/td}
{td}0.519{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7{/td}
{td}Bradley Beal{/td}
{td}2012-13{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}WAS{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.9{/td}
{td}2.4{/td}
{td}3.8{/td}
{td}0.8929{/td}
{td}0.5179{/td}
{td}1.6071{/td}
{td}56{/td}
{td}46{/td}
{td}1745{/td}
{td}0.41{/td}
{td}0.424{/td}
{td}0.386{/td}
{td}0.477{/td}
{td}0.786{/td}
{td}0.515{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}8{/td}
{td}Jayson Tatum{/td}
{td}2017-18{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}BOS{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.9{/td}
{td}1.6{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}1.0375{/td}
{td}0.725{/td}
{td}1.425{/td}
{td}80{/td}
{td}80{/td}
{td}2438{/td}
{td}0.475{/td}
{td}0.492{/td}
{td}0.434{/td}
{td}0.538{/td}
{td}0.826{/td}
{td}0.586{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}9{/td}
{td}Devin Booker{/td}
{td}2015-16{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}PHO{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.8{/td}
{td}2.6{/td}
{td}2.5{/td}
{td}0.5789{/td}
{td}0.2632{/td}
{td}2.1053{/td}
{td}76{/td}
{td}51{/td}
{td}2108{/td}
{td}0.423{/td}
{td}0.464{/td}
{td}0.343{/td}
{td}0.48{/td}
{td}0.84{/td}
{td}0.535{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}10{/td}
{td}Cliff Robinson{/td}
{td}1979-80{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}NJN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.6{/td}
{td}1.4{/td}
{td}7.2{/td}
{td}0.8714{/td}
{td}0.4857{/td}
{td}1.9571{/td}
{td}70{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td}1661{/td}
{td}0.469{/td}
{td}0.47{/td}
{td}0.25{/td}
{td}0.47{/td}
{td}0.694{/td}
{td}0.506{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}11{/td}
{td}Anthony Davis{/td}
{td}2012-13{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}NOH{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.5{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}8.2{/td}
{td}1.1719{/td}
{td}1.75{/td}
{td}1.3906{/td}
{td}64{/td}
{td}60{/td}
{td}1846{/td}
{td}0.516{/td}
{td}0.521{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}0.516{/td}
{td}0.751{/td}
{td}0.559{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}12{/td}
{td}Dajuan Wagner{/td}
{td}2002-03{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}CLE{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.4{/td}
{td}2.8{/td}
{td}1.7{/td}
{td}0.8085{/td}
{td}0.1489{/td}
{td}1.8085{/td}
{td}47{/td}
{td}24{/td}
{td}1385{/td}
{td}0.369{/td}
{td}0.39{/td}
{td}0.316{/td}
{td}0.414{/td}
{td}0.8{/td}
{td}0.466{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}13{/td}
{td}D'Angelo Russell{/td}
{td}2015-16{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}LAL{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}13.2{/td}
{td}3.3{/td}
{td}3.4{/td}
{td}1.1625{/td}
{td}0.1625{/td}
{td}2.45{/td}
{td}80{/td}
{td}48{/td}
{td}2259{/td}
{td}0.41{/td}
{td}0.447{/td}
{td}0.351{/td}
{td}0.478{/td}
{td}0.737{/td}
{td}0.507{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}14{/td}
{td}Emmanuel Mudiay{/td}
{td}2015-16{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}DEN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}12.8{/td}
{td}5.5{/td}
{td}3.4{/td}
{td}0.9559{/td}
{td}0.5147{/td}
{td}3.1912{/td}
{td}68{/td}
{td}66{/td}
{td}2068{/td}
{td}0.364{/td}
{td}0.379{/td}
{td}0.319{/td}
{td}0.404{/td}
{td}0.67{/td}
{td}0.437{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}15{/td}
{td}Jabari Parker{/td}
{td}2014-15{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}MIL{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}12.3{/td}
{td}1.7{/td}
{td}5.5{/td}
{td}1.24{/td}
{td}0.2{/td}
{td}1.88{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}738{/td}
{td}0.49{/td}
{td}0.506{/td}
{td}0.25{/td}
{td}0.498{/td}
{td}0.697{/td}
{td}0.527{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
This guy had a pretty good playoff run for a 19 year old.

[xtable=skin1]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=28x@} {/td}
{td=242x@}Player{/td}
{td=54x@}Playoff Season{/td}
{td=31x@}Age{/td}
{td=53x@}PTS/G{/td}
{td=53x@}AST/G{/td}
{td=53x@}TRB/G{/td}
{td=53x@}BLK/G{/td}
{td=53x@}TOV/G{/td}
{td=62x@}FG%{/td}
{td=62x@}eFG%{/td}
{td=62x@}FT%{/td}
{td=62x@}TS%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td}Moses Malone{/td}
{td}1974-1975 {/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}22.7{/td}
{td}1.5{/td}
{td}17.5{/td}
{td}1.5{/td}
{td}2.2{/td}
{td}0.638{/td}
{td}0.638{/td}
{td}0.667{/td}
{td}0.664{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
Not the NBA doe

MSUFanatic said:
The hyperbole in this thread is insane.
Click to expand...

The problem with all of those players above him is they are extremely inefficient scorers. That never really changed with some of them. They also couldn’t (or didn’t) play defense.

Tatum is in a unique situation because he’s hasn’t been asked to carry the offensive load and is in a great defensive system. So that’s a big part of why he’s able to do the two things above.

I think the only season that stacked up from an advanced statistic point was Dwight - but he’s a completely different type of player. 19 year olds (especially wings) just do not have developed offensive games like Tatum does
 
MSUFanatic

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
NML said:
Not the NBA doe



The problem with all of those players above him is they are extremely inefficient scorers. That never really changed with some of them. They also couldn’t (or didn’t) play defense.

Tatum is in a unique situation because he’s hasn’t been asked to carry the offensive load and is in a great defensive system. So that’s a big part of why he’s able to do the two things above.

I think the only season that stacked up from an advanced statistic point was Dwight - but he’s a completely different type of player. 19 year olds (especially wings) just do not have developed offensive games like Tatum does
Click to expand...

[xtable=549x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=18x@}Rk{/td}
{td=226x@}Player{/td}
{td=55x@}Season{/td}
{td=29x@}Age{/td}
{td=38x@}Tm{/td}
{td=33x@}Lg{/td}
{td=50x@}USG%{/td}
{td=50x@}ORtg{/td}
{td=50x@}DRtg{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}1{/td}
{td}Carmelo Anthony{/td}
{td}2003-04{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}DEN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}28.5{/td}
{td}102{/td}
{td}105{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}2{/td}
{td}LeBron James{/td}
{td}2003-04{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}CLE{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}28.2{/td}
{td}99{/td}
{td}104{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}3{/td}
{td}Kevin Durant{/td}
{td}2007-08{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}SEA{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}28.1{/td}
{td}100{/td}
{td}110{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4{/td}
{td}Kyrie Irving{/td}
{td}2011-12{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}CLE{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}28.7{/td}
{td}109{/td}
{td}110{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}5{/td}
{td}Andrew Wiggins{/td}
{td}2014-15{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}MIN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}22.6{/td}
{td}103{/td}
{td}114{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}6{/td}
{td}Stephon Marbury{/td}
{td}1996-97{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}MIN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}24.2{/td}
{td}105{/td}
{td}111{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7{/td}
{td}Bradley Beal{/td}
{td}2012-13{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}WAS{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}22.2{/td}
{td}102{/td}
{td}105{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}8{/td}
{td}Jayson Tatum{/td}
{td}2017-18{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}BOS{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}19.5{/td}
{td}111{/td}
{td}103{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}9{/td}
{td}Devin Booker{/td}
{td}2015-16{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}PHO{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}23{/td}
{td}102{/td}
{td}112{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}10{/td}
{td}Cliff Robinson{/td}
{td}1979-80{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}NJN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}101{/td}
{td}101{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}11{/td}
{td}Anthony Davis{/td}
{td}2012-13{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}NOH{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}21.8{/td}
{td}113{/td}
{td}104{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}12{/td}
{td}Dajuan Wagner{/td}
{td}2002-03{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}CLE{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}23.8{/td}
{td}96{/td}
{td}111{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}13{/td}
{td}D'Angelo Russell{/td}
{td}2015-16{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}LAL{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}24.1{/td}
{td}96{/td}
{td}112{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}14{/td}
{td}Emmanuel Mudiay{/td}
{td}2015-16{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}DEN{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}25.7{/td}
{td}88{/td}
{td}110{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}15{/td}
{td}Jabari Parker{/td}
{td}2014-15{/td}
{td}19{/td}
{td}MIL{/td}
{td}NBA{/td}
{td}20.7{/td}
{td}101{/td}
{td}103{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]


So he's a product of a system (this is mostly tongue in cheek).

I'm not saying Tatum isn't a very good player, by all accounts he looks very good, but to say he's having on of the best rookie seasons ever is , I dunno. If he was more of a focal point of the offense (which isn't a detriment it's more of a bonus to how good Stevens is) he wouldn't keep up his efficiency numbers. His USG% is the lowest for that 15 list I posted and being efficient with your limited attempts doesn't make you a GOAT automatically it just means you are probably going to regress to a mean with more looks. I guess I would have to determine what exactly classifies you into "one of the best rookie (19 year old) seasons", before I could really get more into this. It's such a subjective bucket.
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
Sort by win share and lemme know what you find. Tell me how many other 19 year olds have scored with that efficiency and played a decent amount of minutes. Who has shot that well from 3?

MSUFanatic said:
If he was more of a focal point of the offense (which isn't a detriment it's more of a bonus to how good Stevens is) he wouldn't keep up his efficiency numbers. His USG% is the lowest for that 15 list I posted and being efficient with your limited attempts doesn't make you a GOAT automatically it just means you are probably going to regress to a mean with more looks.
Click to expand...

Almost had to break out the HOT TAKE cannon for this. His usage in the post-season has shot up to 24% and his offensive rating is still at 111, TS% is at .572 (which is higher than any other player on ur list)
 
MSUFanatic

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
NML said:
Sort by win share and lemme know what you find. Tell me how many other 19 year olds have scored with that efficiency and played a decent amount of minutes. Who has shot that well from 3?



Almost had to break out the HOT TAKE cannon for this. His usage in the post-season has shot up to 24% and his offensive rating is still at 111, TS% is at .572 (which is higher than any other player on ur list)
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That list is from the regular season not playoffs, which I don't contend he is having one of the best playoff runs for a rookie we have seen. Also he hasn't shot well from three this post season (.320 clip).


FWIW, his shooting stats.

[xtable=skin1|417x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=97x@} {/td}
{td=64x@}FG%{/td}
{td=64x@}3P%{/td}
{td=64x@}eFG%{/td}
{td=64x@}FT%{/td}
{td=64x@}TS%{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Regular Season{/td}
{td}0.475{/td}
{td}0.434{/td}
{td}0.538{/td}
{td}0.826{/td}
{td}0.586{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Playoffs{/td}
{td}0.464{/td}
{td}0.32{/td}
{td}0.508{/td}
{td}0.841{/td}
{td}0.572{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
So he's regressed in every category especially 3 point shooting. I know what you find when you do WS. I'm not exactly sold on that statistic I don't believe it does a great job valuing defensive stats correctly. Rather look at VORP which Tatum was a 1.8 on the season which is solidly in the Top 10.

Again definition of "one of the best seasons" is key. What is it? Top 10 for the league in advanced stats? Top 15? Top 5? You tell me.
 
NML

NML

Well-Known Member
You said he would regress to the mean. He didn't - he is still putting up better numbers than any other 19 year old. You said if he was more of a focal point, he wouldn't keep up his efficiency. He has, both offensive ratings are 111. That's not to say anything for the fact that this is the playoffs where we could assume he's facing better than average competition.

I'm not going into a semantics debate, but for a 19 year old, his season was best in terms of:

Defensive Rating
Shooting Efficiency
3 Point Shooting
Win Share

So if you want to say he had all of those things and NOT the best season ever, then sure.
 
MSUFanatic

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
NML said:
You said he would regress to the mean. He didn't - he is still putting up better numbers than any other 19 year old. You said if he was more of a focal point, he wouldn't keep up his efficiency. He has, both offensive ratings are 111. That's not to say anything for the fact that this is the playoffs where we could assume he's facing better than average competition.

I'm not going into a semantics debate, but for a 19 year old, his season was best in terms of:

Defensive Rating
Shooting Efficiency
3 Point Shooting
Win Share

So if you want to say he had all of those things and NOT the best season ever, then sure.
Click to expand...


So 13 games of a 24% USG% is indicative of what he'd do over 82 game season as far as efficiency?

I just can't take 13 games and go yup that dude's the GOAT. This is exactly what he'll be for the rest of his career.

I've stated multiple times his playoff are great. To say this is exactly how he'd play and be as efficient over 82 games is ridiculous. I've only contested his GOATNESS as far as a season perspective. You keep seemingly mixing that up with stating your case for his playoff sample size and projecting that as proof that he would do that for in an entire season.
 
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NML

NML

Well-Known Member
MSUFanatic said:
I just can't take 13 games and go yup that dude's the GOAT. This is exactly what he'll be for the rest of his career.

I've stated multiple times his playoff are great. To say this is exactly how he'd play and be as efficient over 82 games is ridiculous. I've only contested his GOATNESS as far as a season perspective. You keep seemingly mixing that up with stating your case for his playoff sample size and projecting that as proof that he would do that for in an entire season.
Click to expand...

I made absolutely no comment about his career progression, how great he'll be long term, etc. I LITERALLY only commented on how this season and this playoffs compares to other 19 year olds

Nice straw man doe
 
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