He has scored 40+ in 28% of his post season games this year. I think NML's post is much more truthful than Fish's post, fish is just manipulating stats to make himself seem like he knows more.
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2014 NBA Thread
- Thread starter OU11
- Start date
He has scored 40+ in 28% of his post season games this year. I think NML's post is much more truthful than Fish's post, fish is just manipulating stats to make himself seem like he knows more.
thought you were talking about the reg season.
Fish wasn't, so why would I? He quoted his post-season stats. That's like using Anthony Davis' rookie numbers to judge his second year numbers by (since he doesn't go to the playoffs). They are two different things. There is a reason they separate regular season and post season stats.
Mame YO
slings rocks
My issue with your position, fish, is that he isn't just out there chucking shots all game. Yes, he takes shots. But to me a chucker is patty mills when he played for the blazers, to me. Any blazers fan that saw him play at that time cringed whenever he got the ball, because he was going to shoot it, he was going to miss, and that was his only contribution.
Aldridge, on the other hand, is going to get his (as his ppg shows) in addition to his other contributions. He's going to pull down 10+ boards, swat a couple shots (an underrated part of his game), get a couple of assists (though his pass usually makes it's way through a couple hands before the weak side shooter ends up taking the 3), and he isn't a liability on defense. He's going to bend defenses, and affect the game. That's what you ask for from your best player. To me calling him a chucker is comparing him to 3/14 in 8 minutes patty mills. Aldridge is just so much more than that.
Aldridge, on the other hand, is going to get his (as his ppg shows) in addition to his other contributions. He's going to pull down 10+ boards, swat a couple shots (an underrated part of his game), get a couple of assists (though his pass usually makes it's way through a couple hands before the weak side shooter ends up taking the 3), and he isn't a liability on defense. He's going to bend defenses, and affect the game. That's what you ask for from your best player. To me calling him a chucker is comparing him to 3/14 in 8 minutes patty mills. Aldridge is just so much more than that.
usnfish
Active Member
I don't hate Aldridge. I hate a heavy reliance on inefficient shots as the base of an offense.
Pointing to Games 1 and 2 like that who Aldridge is is ridiculous because we have 577 games of him that says he's a volume scorer. His team's performance has wildly fluctuated while Aldridge has remained remarkably constant.
If we want to talk just post season Aldridge has played 25 games. He averages 20.2 PP/36 on 17.0 FGA/36. For his career (577 games) in the regular season he averages 19.2 PP/36 on 16.1 FGA/36. He's the same dude. He hits about 42% of his midrange shots on his entire career. Pointing to ONE GAME he shot 66% from midrange is hilariously missing the point.
Pointing to Games 1 and 2 like that who Aldridge is is ridiculous because we have 577 games of him that says he's a volume scorer. His team's performance has wildly fluctuated while Aldridge has remained remarkably constant.
If we want to talk just post season Aldridge has played 25 games. He averages 20.2 PP/36 on 17.0 FGA/36. For his career (577 games) in the regular season he averages 19.2 PP/36 on 16.1 FGA/36. He's the same dude. He hits about 42% of his midrange shots on his entire career. Pointing to ONE GAME he shot 66% from midrange is hilariously missing the point.
Just take out the 8 point game too so you're at least honest about what you're doing and this convo never happens.
Manipulate away big guy, we were just telling you why you are being dishonest in your analysis and manipulating the numbers to fit your end goal.
If you are trying to manipulate your 7 game data set to conform to his career average, I see what fish is doing. Problem is you have to be dishonest about excluding games to make it fit. Truth is, he has been playing at another level. And if you are to take away the outliers you need to be honest enough to take both sides out, not just the side that agrees with your manipulation.
usnfish
Active Member
Even taking out his 8 point game you still have a guy putting up roughly 1.19 points per shot. Not per possession, per shot.
32, 30, 29, 23 points = 114
25, 26, 23, 22 shots = 96
1.1875 points per shot.
His entire career he has scored 10901 points on 9150 shots.
1.1913 points per shot.
Tell me again, eliminating the outliers, how Aldridge is outperforming hisself.
32, 30, 29, 23 points = 114
25, 26, 23, 22 shots = 96
1.1875 points per shot.
His entire career he has scored 10901 points on 9150 shots.
1.1913 points per shot.
Tell me again, eliminating the outliers, how Aldridge is outperforming hisself.
Then why didn't you take out the 8 point game in the first place? Are you just lazy or did you think it might mess up what you wanted to do and leave it in for no reason?
atlbraves
Well-Known Member
He's only "outperforming" hisself if he does it by just a little tiny bit, otherwise it's an outlier and we're not going to count that.
usnfish
Active Member
Because the NBA stats tool has limitations and I didn't think I'd have to write a thesis to explain that Aldridge had two extremely good games and one poor one. Also because folks here love basic stats like "per game".
Specifically Reel said he wondered what Aldridge's stats were if you eliminate him going absolutely thermonuclear. And they aren't good. The 8 point game does have a clear downward pull on his FG% and points per game. So let's eliminate that (at your request) and we still see the same player. I'm not lazy. Just following your instructions.
Mame YO
slings rocks
i understand this argument, I really do. But I still feel like you're discounting what that innefficient shot does for the offense.
His midrange game opens up the basket; not just for him, but for the rest of the team. Shots at the rim are what you want, right? Aldridge being on the floor makes those shots at the rim more available for the blazers. He usually takes ~40% of his shots at the rim, too, and hits nearly 60% of those shots.
Same with three point shots. Aldridge sitting at 18 feet from the basket often attracts help from the perimeter. Idk if you noticed, but Houston stopped sending help from the perimeter in their series and instead would have asik give Aldridge the baseline. Then, when Aldridge took it they'd send Howard to double. It worked for a game (8 points), but Aldridge eventually figured it out and found Lopez for a couple baskets right under the rim. Why did Houston make that adjustment? Because they didn't want to give up the three ball.
When the blazers didn't have aldridge, they were shooting a bunch of 3s. Like 40 fucking threes a game for a stretch IIRC. Like I mentioned before, they looked bad. They nearly lost to Utah during that stretch! They were taking more of your beloved smart shots, but the offense was bogged down. The blazers are a top 5 offense with aldridge. It's night and day, that's how much he matters.
As long as you are consistent it is okay, but when you are not consistent even if you arrive at the same conclusion you are being dishonest with the analysis. Just do it right. Plus it is 7 games, you don't need a fucking tool to add up 7 games. Or 4 if you are taking out the good 2 and bad 1
DanishDonut0
Well-Known Member
Stats are cool and everything but they don't mean anything to your argument if you don't actually watch the game.
LA was going inside all day in those first two games. The Rockets finally figured out how to limit his points but putting a center (Asik,Howard) on him as well as attacking him with doubles. His mid range game took away a center from the paint opening up more options for his teammates. As did the double teams. Because of it they won the series. The Spurs and coach Pop are a whole other beast so we'll see what happens.
Please remind me of Davis' playoff stats?
LA was going inside all day in those first two games. The Rockets finally figured out how to limit his points but putting a center (Asik,Howard) on him as well as attacking him with doubles. His mid range game took away a center from the paint opening up more options for his teammates. As did the double teams. Because of it they won the series. The Spurs and coach Pop are a whole other beast so we'll see what happens.
Please remind me of Davis' playoff stats?
usnfish
Active Member
The problem with everything you've typed is Aldridge has been the same player for the past four seasons. His production has remained remarkably constant. Yet the team performance has varied dramatically. His performance in the equation isn't the variable. It's the constant.
Yes they nearly lost to Utah in that stretch. They also lost to San Antonio by 2 points and beat Brooklyn by 44 chucking those 30 threes a game.
So I understand you, Aldridge opens up the three point shot. And when Aldridge is out, the Blazers take more threes?
Yes they nearly lost to Utah in that stretch. They also lost to San Antonio by 2 points and beat Brooklyn by 44 chucking those 30 threes a game.
So I understand you, Aldridge opens up the three point shot. And when Aldridge is out, the Blazers take more threes?
NML
Well-Known Member
lol ur such a mong
takes out two great games and one bad one
stats are average
why don't you do that again with all 7 games??
usnfish
Active Member
I do love that whenever people disagree with my take on something their first response is personal attack or attacking the teams I root for. But that's nutopia for you. It is this wonderful new place isn't it? Between attacking the Pelicans, attacking SBNation writing (Chase, I see you), and just general attacking because we can't refute the evidence it is glorious.
I apologize for saying Aldridge is a volume scorer despite his 602 games of evidence that he is a volume scorer, failing to properly account for the two games he got hot (which by the way, are included in that 602 game total). I'll go away now because New Orleans fans are unwanted here.
I apologize for saying Aldridge is a volume scorer despite his 602 games of evidence that he is a volume scorer, failing to properly account for the two games he got hot (which by the way, are included in that 602 game total). I'll go away now because New Orleans fans are unwanted here.
I ran a statistical analysis of Michael Jordan. I took out every game in which he scored over 30 points and found that he was actually an extremely average player. He averaged 22.7 points on 47,456 shots and when I ran those numbers through @Travis7401's QBR Mong formula, I found that Jordan would have been better off entering the NFL draft and he would have probably been a very successful NFL QB.
Mame YO
slings rocks
This doesn't really say much, doe. He can get his, and open up teammates like he's supposed to... But they still have to hit shots. At the beginning of the year, they hit those shots. Those same shots aren't always going in, doe. It's a team game; he can't win by himself.
they took more, but the looks weren't as good as they usually were. Without Aldridge, defenders just glued themselves to the perimeter players. Portland's offense amounted to a chuckfest of contested 3s. It was terrible.
Based on this I should make Jordan's dad move to Titusville to work at the space center as mike is entering high school. Coach Mack will convince him football is his best sport and fill the void at quarterback. This will change the course if history for astronaut high the nfl and the nba.
Can you imagine Jordan lobbing passes to Wilber Marshall? Makes me wet.
yea, its one thing to troll someone but its another to take a personal shot. Even though most of you, shit, all of you would never agree with anything Fisher, G8r, and I post, I would never make it personal. You end up making yourself seem butthurt b/c you can't provide a proper rebuttal.
fwiw, I dont think Fisher has ever said he hated Aldridge btw. But anytime he posts something about another player, YA'LL are the ones who start talking about players of teams he roots for.
Exhibit A:
What was the point of bringing that up? Because he said something about a player on a team you happen to root for? Would you have posted the same thing if he said something about D.Howard?
Dude cant even go to the New Orleans teams threads and post his opinions w/o someone going in just to fuck with him. Three active posters cheering for two teams in a thread dedicated to those two teams, and somehow, the trolls still manage to find their way in and post something. Where they do that at?
It takes alot of energy out if him going nothing all day.
NML
Well-Known Member
this guy gets it
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Why should the Suns GM get the award? His team finished 9th of 15 teams.
LMA good but the guy shot 45.8% this year at the 4. That is not good. He was 55th in true shooting % amongst PF. Isn't that the definition of the volume scorer? It certainly takes skill 20+ ppg but he is not at all an efficient offensive player shooting wise. FT% and lack of TOs do help him.
And
at anyone who invokes Anthony Davis' name when LMA comes up. LMA is a very good fringe All-Star player. Davis is in another stratosphere.
LMA good but the guy shot 45.8% this year at the 4. That is not good. He was 55th in true shooting % amongst PF. Isn't that the definition of the volume scorer? It certainly takes skill 20+ ppg but he is not at all an efficient offensive player shooting wise. FT% and lack of TOs do help him.
And
at anyone who invokes Anthony Davis' name when LMA comes up. LMA is a very good fringe All-Star player. Davis is in another stratosphere.
Why should the Suns GM get the award? His team finished 9th of 15 teams.
LMA good but the guy shot 45.8% this year at the 4. That is not good. He was 55th in true shooting % amongst PF. Isn't that the definition of the volume scorer? It certainly takes skill 20+ ppg but he is not at all an efficient offensive player shooting wise. FT% and lack of TOs do help him.
And
Re: Phoenix
they were 1 game out of the 8th seed right?
Who saw Gerald Green and the Morris Twins having the year they had. Weren't they brought in by him?
I honestly have no idea. I'm just offering a possible reason why.
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Sean McDonough's brother did a great job turning over the roster but since when does someone win an award for missing the playoffs in a league where more than half make the playoffs?
Mame YO
slings rocks
Because the suns are set up extremely well for the future? Do yous realize just how good their position is right now? They have tons of cap space, flexibility, a bunch of assets, a couple of legit players to build with... Yeah, I'd say Phoenix's offseason moves deserved more recognition than San Antonio's. I mean, all San Antonio did this offseason was resign a couple players and add belinelli. Phoenix just did more to win the "executive of the year" award, IMO. Considering their executive actually made big moves this offseason... I also don't really like yearly awards being used like lifetime achievement awards.
Also, Aldridge has gotten three consecutive all star nods in the loaded west. He isn't a "fringe" all-star; he's a perennial all-star. Get used to seeing him, he isn't going anywhere on that front.
Also, Aldridge has gotten three consecutive all star nods in the loaded west. He isn't a "fringe" all-star; he's a perennial all-star. Get used to seeing him, he isn't going anywhere on that front.
Clintmartian
Stringer Bell
RE: SA GM winning.
I think it proves you're doing your job correctly when none of your players play more than 30 minutes a game, and somehow you have the best record in the NBA.
I think it proves you're doing your job correctly when none of your players play more than 30 minutes a game, and somehow you have the best record in the NBA.
isnt that more of a credit to the corch?
sayo
YEET
Zach Lowe was talking about this very thing on his podcast a couple of weeks ago and he made some fair points that make sense to me. Lot's of people will point to Aldridge's midrange shooting and overall shooting %, but guys like him and Dirk are anomalies that affect the game in ways that don't show on the stat sheet. Yes, the midrange is not an efficient shot, but when you have a player who can make them at the clip he does (including the types of difficult shots he makes), it really changes the opponent's gameplan. Fact of the matter is, he is the main piece (not Lillard) in the Blazers' attack which was the best offense in the league until his injury right after the all-star break and finished top 3. It must be working, right?
As a Blazers fan, I'd like to see more of what he was doing in game 1 against Houston, but I understand the physical toll of putting your head down and attacking the basket relentlessly. I read somewhere that in game 1, his average shot was about 8 feet from the basket compared to over 15 feet in game 2. You just aren't going to get that out of him night in and night out. Not to mention, anyone who has watched Portland play for and particularly Aldridge will be quick to point out how inconsistent he is at finishing at the basket. Dude is often able to body his way to the paint but either resorts to that running fade which is horribly inconsistent, or the up and under (a far better move for himself). He also tries too often to make finesse finishes rather than just powering it down. It happened in the second quarter last night where Lillard hit him on the PNR and he opted for the layup, which missed, over just flushing it. This isn't that rare of an occurrence, unfortunately.
As a Blazers fan, I'd like to see more of what he was doing in game 1 against Houston, but I understand the physical toll of putting your head down and attacking the basket relentlessly. I read somewhere that in game 1, his average shot was about 8 feet from the basket compared to over 15 feet in game 2. You just aren't going to get that out of him night in and night out. Not to mention, anyone who has watched Portland play for and particularly Aldridge will be quick to point out how inconsistent he is at finishing at the basket. Dude is often able to body his way to the paint but either resorts to that running fade which is horribly inconsistent, or the up and under (a far better move for himself). He also tries too often to make finesse finishes rather than just powering it down. It happened in the second quarter last night where Lillard hit him on the PNR and he opted for the layup, which missed, over just flushing it. This isn't that rare of an occurrence, unfortunately.
Thats how i view the suns situation. Their gm of the year will come when he makes the moves to put them in the playoffs