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2018-2019 Prem / Farewell Stoke Threade - who ate all the pies?
- Thread starter Yankee151
- Start date
chibob
Well-Known Member
I don't know who you support then
chibob
Well-Known Member
tab10
Well-Known Member
He will just disappear every now and then. It's frustrating to watch.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
This whole Arsenal cycle of shit is getting so boring. The same thing happens every year. I am 100% convinced that Wenger sent the players on to the pitch today saying that a draw would be a good result.
The reason why I'm 100% is not just that we played for a draw or that we were average, but that Wenger didn't make a sub at 60 or 65 minutes, and in his own words he doesn't change things if he is happy with the combination on the pitch. Only when we lost a goal did he make a move.
I even said that if we put on Chamberlain and Giroud, and told Chamberlain not to cut inside and just provide crosses for then we could get a goal or two that way. I said that at 60 minutes. Wenger obviously knew it, so why the fuck didn't he do it sooner? Because he wanted a 0-0 draw, because he thought that was good enough.
Same old shit. Manager's fault.
That was an enjoyable weekend.
-YTC
-YTC
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Juking it out with Arsenal for 4th place, after narrowly beating an absolute piece of shit West Ham. You know we'll beat you for that spot. Good times.
Like I said, quite the enjoyable weekend!
-YTC
-YTC
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
You know it's the end of the world so don't pretend it isn't.
Would you say Boro are roughly 4x as good as ManU?
Don't be dumb. Chelsea only scored 1 yesterday, but they've looked awesome for 2 months. And it's November, when Chelsea usually look like.....well, like United look right now.
chibob
Well-Known Member
One month theyve looked "good" for. Did they look good losing to Arsenal 3-0? Drawing with Swansea 2-2? Losing to West Ham 2-1? Theyve turned a corner in October.
The 3 at the back has helped but teams will adjust tactically when they play them. The real thing Chelsea have for them right now is an inform Hazard. They dont look as good as Leicester did this time last year, or Chelsea in 14/15. You hadnt lost a game by this time that year.
I know more about your team than you do.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
However, someone will work out how to beat that system, and they'll go on a bad run. Not saying they might not win the EPL, but it's going to be close.
One month theyve looked "good" for. Did they look good losing to Arsenal 3-0? Drawing with Swansea 2-2? Losing to West Ham 2-1? Theyve turned a corner in October.
The 3 at the back has helped but teams will adjust tactically when they play them. The real thing Chelsea have for them right now is an inform Hazard. They dont look as good as Leicester did this time last year, or Chelsea in 14/15. You hadnt lost a game by this time that year.
I know more about your team than you do.
GTFO with West Ham; that was a League Cup game. Ain't nobody got time for that nonsense.
In actual league games, Chelsea haven't even given up a goal -- let alone dropped points -- since September 24. Two months. That also coincides with the 3-4-3 switch. That, coupled with an in-form Hazard and in-form Costa, has led Chelsea to destroy everything in sight.
Who knows how long it will last? They could hit a slump any time. But don't pretend like they're limping along, barely securing points. You're delusional.
For sure they will! (Go on a bad run). Hazard and Costa won't be on fire all season, and if someone cracks the code to the 3-4-3, everybody will copy the formula and Conte will have to adjust.
Shit talking aside, it's way too early to predict champions.
BUT, when @chibob puts down the crack pipe, he'll realize how impressive they've looked in the last 2 months.
So, going 6-0-0 with a combined score of 17-0 is just okay? Got it.
chibob
Well-Known Member
You were 6 points clear of City in the year you won it by November.
You hadnt lost a game. This year youve lost two, and have a lead of one point.
But yeh youre doing great
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
You were 6 points clear of City in the year you won it by November.
You hadnt lost a game. This year youve lost two, and have a lead of one point.
But yeh youre doing great
There is an argument to say that six teams are doing well this year rather than it being everybody doing badly. Chelsea had four points more in 2014-15 at this stage, but that was a slight exception to the rule if you look at the last five years. What is significantly different in the statistics this year is that it's all very strong teams that are picking up most of the points at this stage. Other years have had at least one or two teams doing well that you know are going to fade. The bookies must be having a nightmare with this.
The lesson here is to always check with the British guys first before you decide if you're happy with your team's performance.
-YTC
-YTC
You were 6 points clear of City in the year you won it by November.
You hadnt lost a game. This year youve lost two, and have a lead of one point.
But yeh youre doing great
Lawd, you have comprehension issues. Let's try this one more time.....
Chelsea look amazing IN THE LAST 2 MONTHS. Since the switch to the 3-4-3, they've been destroying everything in their path.
No one said anything about it being a record setting season, as a whole. I've been talking about their momentum and how dominant they've been since the tactical switch. And you've been saying since they only beat Boro 1-0, they're not that good. Yeahokay.gif.
We are 9 points up on his loathsome little team in only 12 games played. Chibob just mad AF that our team is better than his.
You here for the 1st place or the Michy Batshuayi? He's Belgian though, not a true African striker.
So basically everyone sucks and none of the PL managers know how to combat a 3-4-3. Makes sense.
Ironically I've got a true background story in this case! Batshit was actually one of Mr. Manager's first large transfer purchases back in his salad days. Batshit didn't appreciate being called Batshit and never performed all that well for Mr. Manager.
Only cost Mr. Manager $10.5M in transfer budget (thanks release clause!) and 2.3M/year in salary, so I'm sure Mr. Manager made a healthy profit selling him on to Chelsea.
Welcome Michy Batshuayi and Stefan de Vrij
Mr. Manager wasted no time bringing in the players he wanted at the CB and ST postions. Michy Batshuayi already has the ability to make an impact on the team immediately and he has even better potential. Stefan de Vrij will give the team another starting caliber CB that they'll need in order to compete in what should be a better run in the Champion's League this season.
As you can see below, Michy Batshuay already has awesome ratings for an attacking player, and he should only get better as his potential upside is huge. He's the type of player who can function as a complete forward, which is a rare skillset. Mr. Manager paid the release clause of 10.5M for Batshit, making it the largest transfer fee paid by Mr. Manager yet, but other strikers of his ability/age were all significantly more expensive. The best part is Mr. Manager was able to sign him for a relatively affordable wage of $45k/week, which was less than anticipated. Mr. Manager figured he'd need to be paying $60k/week for a super star striker!
Stefan de Vrij is a well rounded Central defender, and he'll be able to step in immediately and compete for a starting spot for Stade Rennais. With his addition, Stade Rennais will now have 4 competent Central Defenders, which will be neccesary for a grueling schedule featuring Ligue 1, Champions League, and 2 domestic cup competitions. Mr. Manager is especially excited about his high mental ratings and 16 tackling rating. He should pair perfectly with a dumber but more athletic defender. With a $4Million transfer fee paid and $33k/week he's a solid value for such a good young player with high potential.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
It may mean that a lot of teams switch formations. When top flight managers first started using a 4-3-2-1, most teams had no clue how to beat it, and the predominant system of choice was a 4-4-2. This does happen in soccer.
Is what Conte is doing that revolutionary though that there is no history on it? I don't know enough abut the ins and outs of tactics to know.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
No-one's played three at the back with any consistency or sincerity since the 90s, especially at the top of the table. It's quite revolutionary imo.
The Premier League is basically the equivalent of Iowa/NFL when it comes to tactics. So while a tactic might not be revolutionary in general soccer terms (plenty of top teams have had success with 3 back formations in recent years. Barcelona at times, Bayern at times, many Italian teams), it can still be wildly different from what the Premier League is used to and therefore take them a while to adjust. The advantage of being contrarian is always so underused in Iowa/NFL/Premier League, especially by top teams who can usually just rely on talent edge, that when a team does have success with something contrarian it causes quite a stir. The league will either "figure it out" (ie they lose a couple and Chelsea abandons it) or they'll stick with it and continue to have success and you'll see 4 teams trying to hamfist a copy of it next season.
Like most sports, nothing is really "new" it is just recycled/borrowed/rehashed with new wrinkles, and this is really no different.
Like most sports, nothing is really "new" it is just recycled/borrowed/rehashed with new wrinkles, and this is really no different.
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hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
What's the Iowa thing?
Utopia Meme dictionary:
Boy/Balloon and ____ is from Iowa
Iowa is always the last place to hear news or catch on to trends. As evidenced by Utopians from Iowa who are always hours late with breaking news. Balloon Boy was the classic example, as @Jacob showed up and announced "Turns out the boy wasn't even in the balloon!" literally 4 hours after the rest of us found out.
Boy/Balloon and ____ is from Iowa
Iowa is always the last place to hear news or catch on to trends. As evidenced by Utopians from Iowa who are always hours late with breaking news. Balloon Boy was the classic example, as @Jacob showed up and announced "Turns out the boy wasn't even in the balloon!" literally 4 hours after the rest of us found out.
So that is kind of what I thought, but it seems pretty simplistic to say, teams will figure it out and Chelsea will suck. Of course they will have to adjust, put in wrinkles, tweak things. But if that were true you could say that for everyone no? At some point, like all sports, teams are just better than others. No?
It should also be mentioned that there are two game theory extremes of looking at formations/personnel. A manager can show up with a certain formation/system and attempt to fit the personnel into that system (and groom players to fit that system). Or a manager can evaluate the talent he currently has and devise a formation/system to fit their unique skill set and (and adapt the system/formation to those skills going forward). Both methods of fitting personnel/system together have pros and cons and I think the very best managers are capable of moving fluidly between and combining both approaches, depending on the situation. Managers/Corches who are stuck at either end of the spectrum might be brilliant in certain situations, but garbage if they are forced to use the opposite approach. You will often see SYSTEM CORCHES fail when they go to a team that doesn't have the personnel and you will often see previously successful PERSONNEL CORCHES fail when they fall too far into the trap of changing formations/systems to fit every new player and end up with an incoherent hodgepodge of shit. I think there are a lot of top Premier League corches who are too far in the direction of being dedicated to their system and suffer the cons associated with that approach, whether it is getting shit-canned before they can bring their own players in or it is failure to adapt to changing times/player archetypes.
Conte's situation at Chelsea is one of the toughest situations for any manager, he's got extremely high expectations and an extremely short leash. A manager who is looking to bring a certain formation/system might not have time to train/fit the players to that system before they are sacked (we've seen this several times recently at big clubs). Fortunately, in the case of Conte/Chelsea, it has worked out so that both methods of fitting player/personnel are pointing in the exact same direction for him! I think his history as a manager obviously suggests that he'd prefer to run a 3 back system if he can get the proper personnel to do so... and Chelsea happened to have a plethora of attacking players and a shortage of defenders (especially the fullbacks, who are getting old/slow). Conte did show some flexibility in his managerial approach by starting the season with the 4231 that the players were familiar with... but wasted no time switching to a 3 back formation once he confirmed that the personnel fit his preferred system better than the 4231 they were used to. I think it is just a rare fortuitous case where a new manager inherits a team that has personnel to fit his preferred system, usually new managers spend a season or two trying to fit square pegs into round holes (if they aren't fired first). Would have been interesting to see how Van Gaal would have done at Chelsea, IMO.
Conte's situation at Chelsea is one of the toughest situations for any manager, he's got extremely high expectations and an extremely short leash. A manager who is looking to bring a certain formation/system might not have time to train/fit the players to that system before they are sacked (we've seen this several times recently at big clubs). Fortunately, in the case of Conte/Chelsea, it has worked out so that both methods of fitting player/personnel are pointing in the exact same direction for him! I think his history as a manager obviously suggests that he'd prefer to run a 3 back system if he can get the proper personnel to do so... and Chelsea happened to have a plethora of attacking players and a shortage of defenders (especially the fullbacks, who are getting old/slow). Conte did show some flexibility in his managerial approach by starting the season with the 4231 that the players were familiar with... but wasted no time switching to a 3 back formation once he confirmed that the personnel fit his preferred system better than the 4231 they were used to. I think it is just a rare fortuitous case where a new manager inherits a team that has personnel to fit his preferred system, usually new managers spend a season or two trying to fit square pegs into round holes (if they aren't fired first). Would have been interesting to see how Van Gaal would have done at Chelsea, IMO.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Chelsea won't suck, but they will lose a definite advantage that they have right now, which is that they are playing a different formation to virtually everyone else.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
If you believe the talking heads, Conte actually really prefers a 4-4-2/4-2-4 system. But he keeps ending up with 3 man back lines, so I'm not sure I believe them.
I'm with @hayvis here. Someone will figure this 3-4-3 system out and then Chelsea will not be flying as high. Rodgers had a somewhat similar system that led to their spectacular run in 2014. Then, the next year, it was a disaster.
I'm with @hayvis here. Someone will figure this 3-4-3 system out and then Chelsea will not be flying as high. Rodgers had a somewhat similar system that led to their spectacular run in 2014. Then, the next year, it was a disaster.
As one of the greatest soccer minds the world has ever known, Mr. Manager inherited a Napoli team who are best suited to run a possession/short passing 4-2-3-1 system and he has been flexible enough to utilize that system to keep them in their expected winning ways this season... but now that we are in the final push for Serie A, and he's signed a 3 year contract extention, Mr. Manager is introducing his preferred 4-5-1 inverted midfield triangle formation with a passing approach that is more mixed in nature. This formation will largely only be used in training or when an in-game tactical situation allows for it... but the existing players will become more familiar with the tactic heading into the offseason. Inverting the midfield triangle might not sound like a big philosophical shift, but Napoli simply does not have the right type of midfielders to fit the formation. While they have a plethero of playmaking midfielders, they only have a single player who fits as a ball winning CDM or a box to box Mid. In the offseason, Mr. Manager will bring in ball winning CDMs and possible another box to box CM. Then with a Ball winning CDM sitting in front of the back four, the fullbacks will be more safely allowed to participate in the offense as wingbacks (and Napoli has a couple of really nice wingbacks, but look for Mr. Manager to bring in another rotational player as well). The 2017-2018 season will still heavily utilize the 4-2-3-1, as a lot of these players are under contract through 2019 or later, but you'll see a lot more of Mr. Manager's preferred inverted triangle 4-5-1, especially when protecting a lead.
Make sure you tune in for more Mr. Manager action in the next couple of days!
Make sure you tune in for more Mr. Manager action in the next couple of days!
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Like you, I just made this assumption about his preferences based on the fact that he keeps playing 3 Back formations wherever he corches. Perhaps it really is just the fact that he's happened to be at places where he viewed a 3 back as the best fit for his personnel? His use of the 3-5-2 to extract max value out of the aging Pirlo was pretty awesome, IMO. At the very least we can say he likes the 3 back philosophy enough that he wasn't scared to employ it in the premier league.
I would run a 5-2-1-2 with the 2 holding midfielders basically holding hands with the Center Backs, and the front 3 attacking players constantly receiving long balls from the back line which bounce off of the heads of opposing defenders into the path of said attackers and then fire a shot right at the goalie who could save it but dives over it.
Conte tried 3 formations with Chelsea before going with a 3-4-3: the 4-2-4, and the 4-2-3-1, and the 4-3-3. He says he couldn't quite find the right balance of offensive and defensive continuity with those, so he went with a 3-4-3.
Who knows if that's his favorite formation, or if he just keeps defaulting to it because it fits his personnel (and/or because it's somewhat 'unusual' and a lot of teams don't know how to counter it yet).
Whether an opposing manager cracks the code, or Chelsea's players just hit a dip in form, they won't keep blasting everybody the rest of the way. The season is too long for that to happen. But it's been impressive to watch for the last 2 months*
(*1 month by chibob math).
Who knows if that's his favorite formation, or if he just keeps defaulting to it because it fits his personnel (and/or because it's somewhat 'unusual' and a lot of teams don't know how to counter it yet).
Whether an opposing manager cracks the code, or Chelsea's players just hit a dip in form, they won't keep blasting everybody the rest of the way. The season is too long for that to happen. But it's been impressive to watch for the last 2 months*
(*1 month by chibob math).
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