• Registration is disabled due to constant spammers. Email [email protected] and we will temporarily re-enable registration for you.

Spread-I Offense 2.0

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
What does anyone think of the inline gun sets? I really want to mess with trips and trips wk and maybe trips open. And then try the tight end inline or right at wing besides h-back. Cluster and so forth. I want to get my passing game a little away from just play action, I guess. Thoughts?

I do appreciate weak h flex and weak slot. Pistol is so versatile.

And I'm thinking of trying empty spread and empty wing besides/instead of 5 wr. Or is that too limiting?

Trips Open is one of the best formations in the game. Cluster and Bunch are great as well.

Empty Spread is a good addition if you're going to no huddle, otherwise I would just do 5 wide.
 

nofx94

Active Member
Trips Open is one of the best formations in the game. Cluster and Bunch are great as well.

Empty Spread is a good addition if you're going to no huddle, otherwise I would just do 5 wide.
I'm curious how my roster will look next year. On defense, I'm losing five starters from my 4-3 and six from my 3-3/nickel.


On offense, I'm losing my 99 overall QB and running back (and maybe my 91 overall junior tailback too), and four of five linemen. I don't know if my new two-deep will be more equipped for no-huddle than my current one. I just know the overall dropoff will be huge.

I'm also losing my top tight end/h-back so I think I'm getting rid of split y-flex and y-offset. My new top two tight ends and fullbacks should finally all be in their 80s. I'm going to keep the ace big gun sets, hopefully. Twin TE slot power gave me a 79-yard touchdown run against #16 Bama. I'm returning three of my top four receivers and they'll all be mid to high 90s.

Since receivers are so easy to recruit, I'm going to refocus my recruiting away from tight ends again, if I've got enough depth there.
...
Looking at my current personnel and what I have incoming, I'll probably need to build something more power-personnel oriented, but the "Power Raid" first draft looks like this:

Pistol
Full House, Strong, H Twins, Strong Slot, Weak Slot, Wing Trips TE, Twin TE Slot, Slot, Wing Trips, Y-Trips

Gun
Split Offset, Split Y Offset, Twin TE Slot, Normal, Normal HB WK, Spread, Spread Flex Weak, Trey Open Offset, Trips, Trips HB WK, Trips Open, Wing Offset Weak, Wing Trips Offset Weak, Y-Trips, Y-Trips WK
 
Last edited:

bpkcchiefs

New Member
@TXHusker05

I've seen you talk about a QB centric run offense in these threads before, but I can't seem to find where you mention them with the search function. I'm sure I just need to use better terms, but I decided to ask instead: Can You mention again the must have formations for an offense like this? My QB just graduated in my OD, and my starting tailback has an average arm, 81/83, and I'd like to just put him at QB and see what happens.

Thanks!
 

nofx94

Active Member
@TXHusker05

I've seen you talk about a QB centric run offense in these threads before, but I can't seem to find where you mention them with the search function. I'm sure I just need to use better terms, but I decided to ask instead: Can You mention again the must have formations for an offense like this? My QB just graduated in my OD, and my starting tailback has an average arm, 81/83, and I'd like to just put him at QB and see what happens.

Thanks!
I know you aren't asking me, but

The ace-gun sets (ace, ace twins, ace twins weak, twin te slot, twin te slot weak), gun Y trips and y trips weak. Set up hat-on-hat blocking advantages, lean on QB power, wrap, and blast. I don't do well with draw myself. Speed option is a good restraint away from read option. I'm a big fan of triple option myself, but it seems you're trying to be more designed-QB-keep-oriented. Twin tight end slot QB power is money. How fast is your converted QB?
 

CoachTuck

Member
Wrap is something I pull out on running downs or in the 4th qtr because that's when guys tend to blitz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bpkcchiefs

New Member
@nofx94

Thanks a whole lot for the list of formations, I'll get started on building that scheme/playbook right away! I totally forgot about blast, I was hesitant to mention draw myself. I might run some zone read, but users tend to slap the game in aggressive option and take that away, so I don't view it as a legitimate way to move the football. This converted QB will be 89 speed, 91 accel, 83 break tackle, 89 trucking... He's one of those battering ram tailbacks Txhusker was talking about, but he happened to have an arm as well, so I figured, Why not?
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@TXHusker05

I've seen you talk about a QB centric run offense in these threads before, but I can't seem to find where you mention them with the search function. I'm sure I just need to use better terms, but I decided to ask instead: Can You mention again the must have formations for an offense like this? My QB just graduated in my OD, and my starting tailback has an average arm, 81/83, and I'd like to just put him at QB and see what happens.

Thanks!

The formations @nofx94 mentioned are a good start, all have at least one designed QB run and a few have multiple. Power, Blast and Wrap are the three key plays to be using with someone like that. I would also add Wildcat Wing off of those because it is a 12 personnel formation and if you used no huddle, it is a seamless transition from 12 personnel gun to Wildcat Wing. If you have 2 TEs or a TE and a decent blocking HB/FB/WR, those 12 personnel wing sets are fantastic. Goal line/Gun Heavy is another, although it is 22 personnel.

If you want to be in 11 personnel some, Gun Wing Trips Wk has buck sweep, a ton of nice read plays plus QB Blast. In 10 personnel, Shotgun Spread has all you need. A QB Power, a Wrap and a ton of read plays.

Depending on what personnel are around the converted HB, you can mix in as much read or designed give stuff as you want. You can even go under center some. In BSCFL, I graduated a ton of players and decided to convert my stud FB to HB (he was already basically the starting HB), but I also put him at QB just to run QB Power, Wrap and Blast because I want the ball in his hands as much as possible. I even put him under center at QB to run QB sneak, which is something Nebraska did with Rex Burkhead a few years ago. He's a beast runner and gets like 30 carries a game.
 

nofx94

Active Member
I have this embarrassment of riches problem where I can't get anyone even twenty carries a game. Going into the SECCG I have a thousand yard runner and two within twenty yards of a thousand then no one after that with even 100. Good problem to have.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I have this embarrassment of riches problem where I can't get anyone even twenty carries a game. Going into the SECCG I have a thousand yard runner and two within twenty yards of a thousand then no one after that with even 100. Good problem to have.

Yeah that's how it was for me in BSCFL for a while. I had a slotback in my triple option I wanted getting touches, two fullbacks, plus my quarterback. I actually had 3 1000 yard rushers last year, the QB, the slotback and the fullback who is now my top tailback/fullback this year.

I usually struggle getting everyone touches most seasons but this season at BSCFL is easy. The really good QB graduated, the slotback graduated, I have no other HBs other than the two fullbacks and I really only play 1 WR because I have 4 TE spread across WR/TE/H-Back. I just get the ball to the tailback/fullback 25-30 times a game, with a few QB runs mixed in plus some screens to the TEs. The backup FB gets carries when the main FB is tired and occasionally a WR or my 6'7" tight end will get some carries on option pitch plays or sweeps.

I actually put my FB at QB in Shotgun Big with the other FB and a TE flanking him and run option quite a bit. The TE had a 30 yard carry last game. I actually kind of prefer having just one main "guy" on offense, it is a lot easier for me to design an offense. I can focus on finding as many possible ways to get him touches and not have to worry about ignoring another player. When I have a situation like I do at Clemson in Powerhouse where I have receivers and tight ends and tailbacks and quarterbacks who are all great players, it becomes tough to get them touches. That's part of the reason I've gone to a ludicrous speed no huddle, more plays = more touches for everyone.
 

nofx94

Active Member
That makes sense. I've invested in all these TE recruits and suddenly discovered I want to run air raid.

Luckily I have a lot of returning experience out wide and my back depth is at least thinning to the point I can use more of a workhorse-type of distribution. The question is whether junior tailback Ed Thompson (91 ovr set to eclipse 1k) returns or not. I want a guy to finally get 3+ years as the starter. Ryan Reid (senior 99 ovr that Thompson has more carries and touchdowns than but less receptions - 36 is good for #2 on the squad, receiving yards, or rushing yards thanks to Reid's 7.9 ypc) did start as a sophomore but missed the middle of his junior season with injury.

And my senior QB (25 passing TDs, 18 INTs, 19/20 rushing TDs, 99 ovr, 92 speed) is graduating to be replaced by s guy three inches taller, 20 lbs heavier, and 9 points slower (still 96 ovr).

Hopefully I have the line depth to run no huddle. I'm trying to marry spread-I (H-back rather than 2-back emphasis, though there is one or two 2-back formations) with air raid concepts, and I have to do something with all these tight ends I started recruiting planning to run a Stanford-style offense. I have pistol so someone can certainly concert to fullback. It'll work out someway ("pro-spread"?), but I'm curious how.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
That makes sense. I've invested in all these TE recruits and suddenly discovered I want to run air raid.

Luckily I have a lot of returning experience out wide and my back depth is at least thinning to the point I can use more of a workhorse-type of distribution. The question is whether junior tailback Ed Thompson (91 ovr set to eclipse 1k) returns or not. I want a guy to finally get 3+ years as the starter. Ryan Reid (senior 99 ovr that Thompson has more carries and touchdowns than but less receptions - 36 is good for #2 on the squad, receiving yards, or rushing yards thanks to Reid's 7.9 ypc) did start as a sophomore but missed the middle of his junior season with injury.

And my senior QB (25 passing TDs, 18 INTs, 19/20 rushing TDs, 99 ovr, 92 speed) is graduating to be replaced by s guy three inches taller, 20 lbs heavier, and 9 points slower (still 96 ovr).

Hopefully I have the line depth to run no huddle. I'm trying to marry spread-I (H-back rather than 2-back emphasis, though there is one or two 2-back formations) with air raid concepts, and I have to do something with all these tight ends I started recruiting planning to run a Stanford-style offense. I have pistol so someone can certainly concert to fullback. It'll work out someway ("pro-spread"?), but I'm curious how.

Ace

Big
Slot

Pistol

Ace Twins
Slot Flex
Trey Open
Strong Slot
Weak Slot
Trips Open
Spread Flex

Gun

Split Offset
Split Slot
Normal Y-Flex
Normal HB Wk
Wing Trips Wk
Bunch HB Str
Trey Open Offset
Empty Spread
Spread
Spread Flex
Spread Flex Wk
Tight
Trips Open
Trey 4WR
Empty Quads
Bunch Quads
5WR Trips
5WR Tight

That's how I did it. Cut down those INTs before you start running a raid though lol.
 

nofx94

Active Member
@bruin228

I figure I'll just force myself into it to make myself better, like Leach did with his QB. lol

You don't utilize the h back sets, I see. Do you find the y-flex and y-slot to be much more useful?
 

CoachTuck

Member
Ace

Big
Slot

Pistol

Ace Twins
Slot Flex
Trey Open
Strong Slot
Weak Slot
Trips Open
Spread Flex

Gun

Split Offset
Split Slot
Normal Y-Flex
Normal HB Wk
Wing Trips Wk
Bunch HB Str
Trey Open Offset
Empty Spread
Spread
Spread Flex
Spread Flex Wk
Tight
Trips Open
Trey 4WR
Empty Quads
Bunch Quads
5WR Trips
5WR Tight

That's how I did it. Cut down those INTs before you start running a raid though lol.
Damn Bruin if these are all the formations you use I imagine they're all like 8-10 plays


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@bruin228

I figure I'll just force myself into it to make myself better, like Leach did with his QB. lol

You don't utilize the h back sets, I see. Do you find the y-flex and y-slot to be much more useful?

I like using it for all the raid concepts. It also helps to have a 2x2 spread formation that you'll get better weakside blocking from (since you have a TE) so you can run Counter and Read and all those sorts of things more effectively.

Damn Bruin if these are all the formations you use I imagine they're all like 8-10 plays


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I try to limit myself to 9-12. The undercenter ones and some of the Pistol ones are considerably smaller.
 

nofx94

Active Member
I tend to stay in the 12-15 range but I inevitably end up with an 18-play set or two. Usually split offset. Usually if I have a 6-9 play set it's just a gadget/changeup, but I like your way of doing things.

I guess what I find key in limiting plays is that if I'm using formations with a lot of overlap to split the difference between them. The problem with that is tendency-itis
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Depends what your philosophy is. You can run a few formations and have a ton of plays in each formation or you can run a bunch of different looks and run the same handful of concepts. Run N Shoot vs. Air Raid basically. Obviously, I lean towards the Air Raid philosophy. Even when I run spread stuff, I'm trying to maximize the number of looks I can have.

My pure raid I normally run is even smaller, though.

Ace

Big
Spread
Trips 4WR

Gun

Ace
Split Offset
Split Slot
Spread
Spread Flex
Spread Flex Wk
Trips
Trips HB Wk
Trips Open
Trips Open HB Str
Tight Slots
Trey 4WR
5WR Trips
5WR Trey

And I'm probably going to get rid of Trips and Trips HB Wk.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
That makes sense. I've invested in all these TE recruits and suddenly discovered I want to run air raid.

Luckily I have a lot of returning experience out wide and my back depth is at least thinning to the point I can use more of a workhorse-type of distribution. The question is whether junior tailback Ed Thompson (91 ovr set to eclipse 1k) returns or not. I want a guy to finally get 3+ years as the starter. Ryan Reid (senior 99 ovr that Thompson has more carries and touchdowns than but less receptions - 36 is good for #2 on the squad, receiving yards, or rushing yards thanks to Reid's 7.9 ypc) did start as a sophomore but missed the middle of his junior season with injury.

And my senior QB (25 passing TDs, 18 INTs, 19/20 rushing TDs, 99 ovr, 92 speed) is graduating to be replaced by s guy three inches taller, 20 lbs heavier, and 9 points slower (still 96 ovr).

Hopefully I have the line depth to run no huddle. I'm trying to marry spread-I (H-back rather than 2-back emphasis, though there is one or two 2-back formations) with air raid concepts, and I have to do something with all these tight ends I started recruiting planning to run a Stanford-style offense. I have pistol so someone can certainly concert to fullback. It'll work out someway ("pro-spread"?), but I'm curious how.

You can still plug TEs into an air raid offense, even if they aren't Gronk-style receiving TEs. You can put them at HB in a few formations to pass protect/leak out into the flat, you can put them at a wing to run shallows and you can even isolate them as a single side WR (which has a dual benefit of putting him on a smaller CB and moving your top WR to a slot vs a SS/LB).

If you're comfortable with some Pistol, I would stay with it. Almost every single Pistol formation has the core air raid concepts. Something like Oklahoma State used to run or what West Virginia tries to run with Holgo. Still keep the downhill run game but you get all your core air raid concepts and a way to utilize the TEs.

Depending on how much of a run game you want, you can plug in reads and slam/inside zone type plays or whatever you want. Even in an air raid I would personally stick with offset gun for that hard hitting inside zone play.
 

nofx94

Active Member
Depends what your philosophy is. You can run a few formations and have a ton of plays in each formation or you can run a bunch of different looks and run the same handful of concepts. Run N Shoot vs. Air Raid basically. Obviously, I lean towards the Air Raid philosophy. Even when I run spread stuff, I'm trying to maximize the number of looks I can have.

My pure raid I normally run is even smaller, though.

Ace

Big
Spread
Trips 4WR

Gun

Ace
Split Offset
Split Slot
Spread
Spread Flex
Spread Flex Wk
Trips
Trips HB Wk
Trips Open
Trips Open HB Str
Tight Slots
Trey 4WR
5WR Trips
5WR Trey

And I'm probably going to get rid of Trips and Trips HB Wk.
I'm more prone to running a lot of formations; I just need to get more if a handle on which passing concepts I want to keep. My favorite is stick. Do you know what the short pass audible defaults to if you don't have slants in a formation? Curl flats maybe?
You can still plug TEs into an air raid offense, even if they aren't Gronk-style receiving TEs. You can put them at HB in a few formations to pass protect/leak out into the flat, you can put them at a wing to run shallows and you can even isolate them as a single side WR (which has a dual benefit of putting him on a smaller CB and moving your top WR to a slot vs a SS/LB).

If you're comfortable with some Pistol, I would stay with it. Almost every single Pistol formation has the core air raid concepts. Something like Oklahoma State used to run or what West Virginia tries to run with Holgo. Still keep the downhill run game but you get all your core air raid concepts and a way to utilize the TEs.

Depending on how much of a run game you want, you can plug in reads and slam/inside zone type plays or whatever you want. Even in an air raid I would personally stick with offset gun for that hard hitting inside zone play.
I personally worry about fucking something up with formation subs. I want to fit people into positions as naturally as possible as can work within my scheme, even including position changes. It's neurotic

And I like pistol, but I find offset can be more effective for the downhill run just because you don't have to wait for the back to hit the mesh point, which can be problematic if he's not particularly fast. I do love the power O and draw plays from pistol, though. I'm gonna try to run with my new playbook and then modify it with some of your recommendations

Also: why don't you like trips and trips weak?
 
Last edited:

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I'm more prone to running a lot of formations; I just need to get more if a handle on which passing concepts I want to keep. My favorite is stick. Do you know what the short pass audible defaults to if you don't have slants in a formation? Curl flats maybe?

I personally worry about fucking something up with formation subs. I want to fit people into positions as naturally as possible as can work within my scheme, even including position changes. It's neurotic

And I like pistol, but I find offset can be more effective for the downhill run just because you don't have to wait for the back to hit the mesh point, which can be problematic if he's not particularly fast. I do love the power O and draw plays from pistol, though. I'm gonna try to run with my new playbook and then modify it with some of your recommendations

Also: why don't you like trips and trips weak?

Formation subs aren't bad, I use them extensively. You just have to know that while a player may take a huge OVR hit playing out of position, their actual ratings really are not impacted in any way. It's tough to do it because you see that huge hit but it still works.

Offset is fantastic if you're just going to be inside zone and read plus maybe a one back counter or a trap play or something like that. That's very Mazzone-ish, just IZ and then the air raid concepts plus bubble and orbit, etc. I like blending a little Pistol and Offset because the QB's position stays the same and only the back rotates around him. Between the two, you get some great concepts for both run and pass and it blends together seamlessly.

As for trips formations, the only trips I personally use are Trio 4WR and Trio 4WR Str plus Trio Offset and Trio Unbalanced. If I were running something more QB based, I'd probably go to one of the Gun Trips formations with QB Blast but that is it. Pistol Trips (closed trips with a TE) is one of the better formations in the game because of the pass concepts plus strong power and lead option.
 

CoachTuck

Member
Depends what your philosophy is. You can run a few formations and have a ton of plays in each formation or you can run a bunch of different looks and run the same handful of concepts. Run N Shoot vs. Air Raid basically. Obviously, I lean towards the Air Raid philosophy. Even when I run spread stuff, I'm trying to maximize the number of looks I can have.

My pure raid I normally run is even smaller, though.

Ace

Big
Spread
Trips 4WR

Gun

Ace
Split Offset
Split Slot
Spread
Spread Flex
Spread Flex Wk
Trips
Trips HB Wk
Trips Open
Trips Open HB Str
Tight Slots
Trey 4WR
5WR Trips
5WR Trey

And I'm probably going to get rid of Trips and Trips HB Wk.
I always end up scrapping Trips Open is it worth keeping over the other Trips sets to you ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I always end up scrapping Trips Open is it worth keeping over the other Trips sets to you ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, I thought I answered this.

Trips Open is probably the best 3x1 set in the game out of any personnel. The run game isn't fantastic but it's solid. Sweep and Counter are good and you've got Read Option, Speed Option, and Wrap if you have a runner at QB. The passing game is really good, it's far better than Trips. Honestly, the only reason I keep Trips at this point is because of one play (Curl Flat Wheel). I suppose it's one of the few inline 10 personnel sets with IZ, so that's nice too but still, that's 2 good plays for me.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I thought I answered this.

Trips Open is probably the best 3x1 set in the game out of any personnel. The run game isn't fantastic but it's solid. Sweep and Counter are good and you've got Read Option, Speed Option, and Wrap if you have a runner at QB. The passing game is really good, it's far better than Trips. Honestly, the only reason I keep Trips at this point is because of one play (Curl Flat Wheel). I suppose it's one of the few inline 10 personnel sets with IZ, so that's nice too but still, that's 2 good plays for me.
I always scrap it also! I may need to look into it a bit more... We're talking about SG trips open correct?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Sorry, I thought I answered this.

Trips Open is probably the best 3x1 set in the game out of any personnel. The run game isn't fantastic but it's solid. Sweep and Counter are good and you've got Read Option, Speed Option, and Wrap if you have a runner at QB. The passing game is really good, it's far better than Trips. Honestly, the only reason I keep Trips at this point is because of one play (Curl Flat Wheel). I suppose it's one of the few inline 10 personnel sets with IZ, so that's nice too but still, that's 2 good plays for me.

I'm pretty sure you're the only person I've ever seen get curl flat wheel to actually work. I'd love to have that concept and have tried creating it using the fake screen plays in offset but never found much success. I did have success making slant flat wheel which I actually do like but it isn't the same.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I always scrap it also! I may need to look into it a bit more... We're talking about SG trips open correct?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Yes, though Pistol Trips Open has all of the same passing plays and potentially a better run game.

I'm pretty sure you're the only person I've ever seen get curl flat wheel to actually work. I'd love to have that concept and have tried creating it using the fake screen plays in offset but never found much success. I did have success making slant flat wheel which I actually do like but it isn't the same.

It can definitely be tricky, that curl/wheel read isn't always very clear. My dabbling in the Run and Shoot probably helps.
 
Top