JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Traditional gun is better 9/10 times.
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Spread-I Offense 2.0
- Thread starter TXHusker05
- Start date
Traditional gun is better 9/10 times.
I run Jet out of Normal Flex Wing. I dedicated that formation solely to the Jet series. I have a ton of success with it in part because I have blockers on the field everywhere. My slot and solo side WR are both TEs (by default, I have TEs at WR) and my HB replaces my lone WR at the outer most WR position. Then I have a TE at wingback and a FB at HB. I get great blocking and often times really great cutback lanes. I treat it just like any outside zone stretch play. I'll stretch it until first daylight and then I'm gone. Fk Jet Dive is my run audible in that formation.
-------------TE----------------T-G-C-G-T-------------------TE----
--HB----------------------------------TE----------------------------
-------------------------------------Q-------------------------------
---------------------------------------FB----------------------------
I run it out of Spread Flex as well (Jet/Jet Dive/PA Jet) and have similar subs. With my two TE at WR on one side, a WR and HB at WR on the other side and a FB in the backfield.
--WR-----------------------T-G-C-G-T---------TE---------------
---------------HB--------------------------------------------TE--
----------------------------------Q--------------------------------
------------------------------------FB-----------------------------
I do have a similar set up in Spread Offset, but I treat that formation as a Flexbone Spread formation. FB at HB, HBs at both slot positions, TE on the perimeter to block for bubble.
The FBs and TEs on the field are what makes jet sweep go in OD play. My TEs lead my team in pancake blocks. In ODs where I don't have TEs, I more or less ditch jet. CPU generated WR recruits have zero block ratings and never pick up their perimeter blocks which leads to disaster pretty much all the time. I'll still run jet action, Fk Jet Dive and PA Jet just to have the illusion of it but I'll rarely run any sort of Jet Sweep. When I do, I run it almost as a double dive play, I'll cut up the field almost immediately.
Last edited:
nofx94
Active Member
I typically prefer offset because you get more down hill running without going pistol or under center. Never really run pistol ace big.
Here are my statistics after one full season running the Spread-I Triple Option offense. I finished the season 14-0, winning both the Sun Belt and National Championship Game.
Team Stats
767 Rushes for 6006 yards, 76 TD (54.8 rush attempts per game for 429 yards per game)
48 of 65 Passing for 642 yards (4.65 pass attempts per game), 6 TD, 1 INT (the INT was the final pass of the year, an end of half hail mary in the national championship).
Obviously I led the nation in rushing and was dead last in passing. I had a 92-8% run-pass ratio.
Individual Stats
Passing
Chris Harris - 46 of 62 (74%) for 613 yards, 6 TD, 1 INT
Team - 2 of 3 for 29 yards
The majority of those passes were screens, in the Sun Belt Championship Game vs bluejay, I completed 10 of 11 passes, all 10 were bubble screens. 9 to my starting slotback.
Rushing
Chris Harris (QB) - 181 rush attempts for 1770 yards (9.7ypc), 22 TD (both Army school records)
Egbezien Obiomon (SB) - 194 rush attempts for 1694 yards (8.7ypc), 19 TD
Marcelino Christie (HB) - 94 rush attempts for 674 yards (7.1ypc), 8 TD*****
Kelly Grant (FB) - 114 rush attempts for 663 yards (5.8ypc), 11 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 78 rush attempts for 490 yards (6.2ypc), 5 TD
Louis Napoles (HB) - 66 rush attempts for 412 yards (6.2ypc), 6 TD
Christian Reed (SB) - 14 rush attempts for 119 yards (8.5ypc), 3 TD
James Parrish (HB) - 7 rush attempts for 57 yards (8.1), 1 TD
Mike Richards and Gene Thomas (QB) - 17 combined rushes for 96 yards, 1 TD
Receiving
Egbezien Obiomon (SB) - 20 receptions for 193 yards, 3 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 4 receptions for 44 yards
Jeff Ejekam (WR) - 4 receptions for 49 yards
Mike Powell (TE) - 4 receptions for 56 yards, TD
Sam Butler (TE) - 4 receptions for 62 yards
Alex Carter (TE) - 3 receptions for 56 yards
Christian Reed (SB) - 2 receptions for 56 yards
Jermaine Adams (WR) - 2 receptions for 73 yards
Kelly Grant (FB) - 2 receptions for 33 yards, TD
Marcelino Christie (HB) - 2 receptions for 20 yards, TD
=========================================
To explain the positions a bit, my team has 4 very good TEs (all Sophomores) and I distributed all 4 across the WR and Wing TE positions. Powell is my best blocking TE, and he played the wing role because of it and also played an on the line TE in my various singleback gun sets. Butler and Carter were my WR/TE hybrids. They were on the field in almost every formation. Ejekam, my lone WR, was on the field as a solo side WR in formations like Wing Offset Wk, Trio 4WR, etc with the idea that I could isolate him and throw slants and screens to him as necessary. He is also a solid blocker.
Obiomon was my slotback, lining up in the slot in every formation either via formation sub or HB Slot package sub. I never flipped formations to make sure my subs and packages didn't get screwed, so I only ran certain formations on the left hash and certain formations on the right hash, etc. Christie was my diveback, lining up in the backfield. Honestly, he was the best player in my offense because he could block enough to be effective in jet and was a devastating downhill runner. But (the *****) he was hurt in Week 6 and missed the remainder of the regular season, only coming back in the National Championship. I tried to play my 3rd string HB, Napoles, there but didn't like it and ended up playing my two Fullbacks, Price and Grant, as downhill divebacks which more or less turned it into a Gun Flexbone offense.
I also formation subbed those two Fullbacks in various formations. When Christie went down, I subbed Grant into Normal Flex Wing to lead block for my Jet series. I also had him subbed into the backfield in Spread Offset, with my two slotbacks in the slot and two TE out wide, mainly to run Trap and check to bubble.
The offense itself was deadly and equally effective against users as it was vs the CPU. I was really worried about how I'd be able to attack users who inevitably went to aggressive option defense to stop me, I figured I'd have to go to the air to beat that, but it turns out I didn't. Over 14 games, I averaged 4.65 pass attempts per game. My max pass attempts in a game was 11, which came in the Sun Belt Championship. After an incompletion on a 3rd down slant pass, I completed all 10 of my passes, every single one of which was a bubble screen. Of the 48 completed pass attempts on the season, I bet 30 were screens (20 bubble screens to Obiomon, 5 bubbles to my other backs, 4 now screens to the WR). That's my constraint. If you leave him uncovered to load the box, I'm throwing it out there every time.
Of the rest, I threw quite a bit of pop passes to my FB/Wing TE out of the backfield off of Motion Option. Slot F Wing Motion Option Pass became one of my go to red zone plays vs users, with the wing FB hot routed to a seam. You get a corner route with that TE and then a seam pop pass trailing him. I also took to creating Y Corner in Spread Flex Motion Option Pass. I also ran a ton of shovel passes, but not as much vs users as I did vs the CPU. I did run 6 shovel passes, all 6 pass attempts in the game, against Toctsx. Shovel gets dicey so didn't want to risk it vs users.
For the most part, I stuck to my base inside zone, read, triple base. Using a bunch of motion option left and right and audibling my slot into the backfield off and on using my Split Offset/Split Y Offset audibles. Those audibles especially were deadly vs users because if you don't cover him, I can just throw to him real quick. If you do, I can audible him into the backfield and run option with numbers. In situations where I was getting a ton of aggressive option defense, I took to running a TON of Counter. Ever since I figured out that motioning the wing/H across the formation to arc block the safety on two back offset counter was a devastating play, I used the hell out of it to take advantage of aggressive option defense. I still ran a ton of option and was content just handing it off, but then I'd break out counter and it would go for monster gains.
There was very little drop off in the offense going from CPU to User play, although I did find I ran far fewer overall plays because the games were shortened by ball control. User game stats:
at Nevada (Deveiopment, 49-14) - 534 yards, 50 rushes for 410 yards, 6 TD and 9 of 9 passing for 124 yards*
(* user disconnected at half)
vs Texas State (Bluejay, 49-24) - 456 yards, 53 rushes for 440 yards, 7 TD and 1 of 1 passing for 16 yards
vs Air Force (NavyHog, 28-21) - 382 yards, 43 rushes for 325 yards, 4 TD and 7 of 9 passing for 57 yards
at UTEP (wpotty, 26-23) - 255 yards, 35 rushes for 179 yards, 1 TD and 5 of 7 passing for 76 yards
vs BYU (Toctsx, 51-28) - 474 yards, 47 rushes for 434 yards, 6 TD and 3 of 6 passing for 40 yards (all 6 pass attempts were shovel option)
vs Texas State, Sun Belt Championship (Bluejay, 35-31) - 373 yards, 36 rushes for 220 yards, 2 TD and 10 of 11 passing for 153 yards, 3 TD. Faced a ton of overloaded boxes with my slotback uncovered, and I ended up throwing 9 bubble screens to Obiomon and 1 to my other slotback Reed.
After one full season, I'm going to go through the playbook and just start ripping out the stuff that I didn't run and really slim down the playbook as much as possible. I would love to get it down to 200 plays, but that may be tough just because of the number of formations. Will update the playbook once that is done. Ironically, the offense is so balanced in terms of who carries the ball that none of my offensive players won awards.
All things considered, this was incredibly enjoyable. I've always wanted to run a Gun Triple offense but never really got around to it. Finally have a situation where I can run it and it has been money so far.
Team Stats
767 Rushes for 6006 yards, 76 TD (54.8 rush attempts per game for 429 yards per game)
48 of 65 Passing for 642 yards (4.65 pass attempts per game), 6 TD, 1 INT (the INT was the final pass of the year, an end of half hail mary in the national championship).
Obviously I led the nation in rushing and was dead last in passing. I had a 92-8% run-pass ratio.
Individual Stats
Passing
Chris Harris - 46 of 62 (74%) for 613 yards, 6 TD, 1 INT
Team - 2 of 3 for 29 yards
The majority of those passes were screens, in the Sun Belt Championship Game vs bluejay, I completed 10 of 11 passes, all 10 were bubble screens. 9 to my starting slotback.
Rushing
Chris Harris (QB) - 181 rush attempts for 1770 yards (9.7ypc), 22 TD (both Army school records)
Egbezien Obiomon (SB) - 194 rush attempts for 1694 yards (8.7ypc), 19 TD
Marcelino Christie (HB) - 94 rush attempts for 674 yards (7.1ypc), 8 TD*****
Kelly Grant (FB) - 114 rush attempts for 663 yards (5.8ypc), 11 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 78 rush attempts for 490 yards (6.2ypc), 5 TD
Louis Napoles (HB) - 66 rush attempts for 412 yards (6.2ypc), 6 TD
Christian Reed (SB) - 14 rush attempts for 119 yards (8.5ypc), 3 TD
James Parrish (HB) - 7 rush attempts for 57 yards (8.1), 1 TD
Mike Richards and Gene Thomas (QB) - 17 combined rushes for 96 yards, 1 TD
Receiving
Egbezien Obiomon (SB) - 20 receptions for 193 yards, 3 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 4 receptions for 44 yards
Jeff Ejekam (WR) - 4 receptions for 49 yards
Mike Powell (TE) - 4 receptions for 56 yards, TD
Sam Butler (TE) - 4 receptions for 62 yards
Alex Carter (TE) - 3 receptions for 56 yards
Christian Reed (SB) - 2 receptions for 56 yards
Jermaine Adams (WR) - 2 receptions for 73 yards
Kelly Grant (FB) - 2 receptions for 33 yards, TD
Marcelino Christie (HB) - 2 receptions for 20 yards, TD
=========================================
To explain the positions a bit, my team has 4 very good TEs (all Sophomores) and I distributed all 4 across the WR and Wing TE positions. Powell is my best blocking TE, and he played the wing role because of it and also played an on the line TE in my various singleback gun sets. Butler and Carter were my WR/TE hybrids. They were on the field in almost every formation. Ejekam, my lone WR, was on the field as a solo side WR in formations like Wing Offset Wk, Trio 4WR, etc with the idea that I could isolate him and throw slants and screens to him as necessary. He is also a solid blocker.
Obiomon was my slotback, lining up in the slot in every formation either via formation sub or HB Slot package sub. I never flipped formations to make sure my subs and packages didn't get screwed, so I only ran certain formations on the left hash and certain formations on the right hash, etc. Christie was my diveback, lining up in the backfield. Honestly, he was the best player in my offense because he could block enough to be effective in jet and was a devastating downhill runner. But (the *****) he was hurt in Week 6 and missed the remainder of the regular season, only coming back in the National Championship. I tried to play my 3rd string HB, Napoles, there but didn't like it and ended up playing my two Fullbacks, Price and Grant, as downhill divebacks which more or less turned it into a Gun Flexbone offense.
I also formation subbed those two Fullbacks in various formations. When Christie went down, I subbed Grant into Normal Flex Wing to lead block for my Jet series. I also had him subbed into the backfield in Spread Offset, with my two slotbacks in the slot and two TE out wide, mainly to run Trap and check to bubble.
The offense itself was deadly and equally effective against users as it was vs the CPU. I was really worried about how I'd be able to attack users who inevitably went to aggressive option defense to stop me, I figured I'd have to go to the air to beat that, but it turns out I didn't. Over 14 games, I averaged 4.65 pass attempts per game. My max pass attempts in a game was 11, which came in the Sun Belt Championship. After an incompletion on a 3rd down slant pass, I completed all 10 of my passes, every single one of which was a bubble screen. Of the 48 completed pass attempts on the season, I bet 30 were screens (20 bubble screens to Obiomon, 5 bubbles to my other backs, 4 now screens to the WR). That's my constraint. If you leave him uncovered to load the box, I'm throwing it out there every time.
Of the rest, I threw quite a bit of pop passes to my FB/Wing TE out of the backfield off of Motion Option. Slot F Wing Motion Option Pass became one of my go to red zone plays vs users, with the wing FB hot routed to a seam. You get a corner route with that TE and then a seam pop pass trailing him. I also took to creating Y Corner in Spread Flex Motion Option Pass. I also ran a ton of shovel passes, but not as much vs users as I did vs the CPU. I did run 6 shovel passes, all 6 pass attempts in the game, against Toctsx. Shovel gets dicey so didn't want to risk it vs users.
For the most part, I stuck to my base inside zone, read, triple base. Using a bunch of motion option left and right and audibling my slot into the backfield off and on using my Split Offset/Split Y Offset audibles. Those audibles especially were deadly vs users because if you don't cover him, I can just throw to him real quick. If you do, I can audible him into the backfield and run option with numbers. In situations where I was getting a ton of aggressive option defense, I took to running a TON of Counter. Ever since I figured out that motioning the wing/H across the formation to arc block the safety on two back offset counter was a devastating play, I used the hell out of it to take advantage of aggressive option defense. I still ran a ton of option and was content just handing it off, but then I'd break out counter and it would go for monster gains.
There was very little drop off in the offense going from CPU to User play, although I did find I ran far fewer overall plays because the games were shortened by ball control. User game stats:
at Nevada (Deveiopment, 49-14) - 534 yards, 50 rushes for 410 yards, 6 TD and 9 of 9 passing for 124 yards*
(* user disconnected at half)
vs Texas State (Bluejay, 49-24) - 456 yards, 53 rushes for 440 yards, 7 TD and 1 of 1 passing for 16 yards
vs Air Force (NavyHog, 28-21) - 382 yards, 43 rushes for 325 yards, 4 TD and 7 of 9 passing for 57 yards
at UTEP (wpotty, 26-23) - 255 yards, 35 rushes for 179 yards, 1 TD and 5 of 7 passing for 76 yards
vs BYU (Toctsx, 51-28) - 474 yards, 47 rushes for 434 yards, 6 TD and 3 of 6 passing for 40 yards (all 6 pass attempts were shovel option)
vs Texas State, Sun Belt Championship (Bluejay, 35-31) - 373 yards, 36 rushes for 220 yards, 2 TD and 10 of 11 passing for 153 yards, 3 TD. Faced a ton of overloaded boxes with my slotback uncovered, and I ended up throwing 9 bubble screens to Obiomon and 1 to my other slotback Reed.
After one full season, I'm going to go through the playbook and just start ripping out the stuff that I didn't run and really slim down the playbook as much as possible. I would love to get it down to 200 plays, but that may be tough just because of the number of formations. Will update the playbook once that is done. Ironically, the offense is so balanced in terms of who carries the ball that none of my offensive players won awards.
All things considered, this was incredibly enjoyable. I've always wanted to run a Gun Triple offense but never really got around to it. Finally have a situation where I can run it and it has been money so far.
nofx94
Active Member
It certainly looks like money. Those ypc averages are outrageous. And the ability to thrive without any passing. You threw less than the service schools and GT in real life. That's nuts.
I don't have the patience or dedication to certain players for all those formation subs and I still don't have my audibles where I want them.
What you've got going on is tremendous.
I don't have the patience or dedication to certain players for all those formation subs and I still don't have my audibles where I want them.
What you've got going on is tremendous.
Yeah the formation subs aren't ideal but there isn't a choice when you have a mix of HB/TE/WR across the WR spots in any given play. Because everything I do has a check with me component, if even one of those position groups ends up out of position, the moment I audible they'll move around. I decided to use formation subs to lock those guys in and make sure no one moved around in the event one player got fatigued/hurt and everyone else slid up the depth chart and moved around. It is also important to never flip formations or similar nonsense will happen.
I also wanted to get a few specific looks with formation subs, most notably in my two Spread Flex/Offset formations and in Normal Flex Wing which I use for Jet/Jet Dive. In Spread Flex, I like having my two TE to the right and a WR/HB to the left so I can run Jet/Load option towards the TEs and get good blocks but also have a legit pass strength in the event I needed to. Spread Offset turned into a mini Flexbone set with two slotbacks and two TE and a FB deep.
Finding the right formation audibles was the tough part, if only because it takes forever to load the playbook, save it, go to practice, check it, go back to the main menu, load the playbook and do it over and over until it is just right. Some of it I knew what I'd get automatically since I use the formations in all my other offenses, others took a ton of trial and error to get right. Luckily I have it perfect right now. I'm hoping when I go through and just start ripping out plays that I never use that it doesn't destroy the rest. It shouldn't, but you never know with EA.
I am going to make some changes to the preset audibles as well. I'll keep the Split Y Offset Triple Option Left/Right shoulder button audibles, but I think I'm going to put Trio Offset Motion Triple Left as my X audible and potentially ditch the two Split Offset Triple Option Left/Right audibles in favor of a counter play or two. I went to Trio Offset Motion Option a ton late in the season because it forced people out of base defenses, but I wish I could have called Motion Option Triple Right in the huddle and then if the defense over shifted that way, run Motion Triple to the Left instead. So that will be a new audible.
I think Counter out of Wing Trips Offset Wk will be my Y audible and maybe just one Split Offset audible. Cross Buck or Counter there maybe as well.
I also wanted to get a few specific looks with formation subs, most notably in my two Spread Flex/Offset formations and in Normal Flex Wing which I use for Jet/Jet Dive. In Spread Flex, I like having my two TE to the right and a WR/HB to the left so I can run Jet/Load option towards the TEs and get good blocks but also have a legit pass strength in the event I needed to. Spread Offset turned into a mini Flexbone set with two slotbacks and two TE and a FB deep.
Finding the right formation audibles was the tough part, if only because it takes forever to load the playbook, save it, go to practice, check it, go back to the main menu, load the playbook and do it over and over until it is just right. Some of it I knew what I'd get automatically since I use the formations in all my other offenses, others took a ton of trial and error to get right. Luckily I have it perfect right now. I'm hoping when I go through and just start ripping out plays that I never use that it doesn't destroy the rest. It shouldn't, but you never know with EA.
I am going to make some changes to the preset audibles as well. I'll keep the Split Y Offset Triple Option Left/Right shoulder button audibles, but I think I'm going to put Trio Offset Motion Triple Left as my X audible and potentially ditch the two Split Offset Triple Option Left/Right audibles in favor of a counter play or two. I went to Trio Offset Motion Option a ton late in the season because it forced people out of base defenses, but I wish I could have called Motion Option Triple Right in the huddle and then if the defense over shifted that way, run Motion Triple to the Left instead. So that will be a new audible.
I think Counter out of Wing Trips Offset Wk will be my Y audible and maybe just one Split Offset audible. Cross Buck or Counter there maybe as well.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Whatever was the last 1st gen Xbox game.
I would kill just for modular custom playbooks. I know I posted a huge post about that on OS like 4-5 years ago detailing how it could be done. All the concepts I want are in the game already, but they are scattered among 100 different formations.
I would love to be able to organize a playbook in steps:
1) Select QB alignment (under center or 5 yard gun)
2) Select FB alignment (behind QB or offset; depth dictated by QB alignment)
3) Select HB alignment (behind QB, offset, to the side or in a wing; depth dictated by QB alignment)
4) Select WR/TE alignment
5) Select the concepts you want within that specific alignment from a set list of concepts (gap run, zone run, option run or quick pass, deep pass... any pass can be tagged with PA off of any run action)
6) The game would assign the best way to run whichever concept(s) you select based on the alignments you pick
The secondary benefit of that would be that every concept would have one standard design, rather than the current system where some concepts/alignments are completely different in one formation when compared to another.
In a perfect world, my base backfield alignment for this triple option offense would be:
---C---
---Q---
------F
---H---
The F would be my "dive" back and my H would be my current slotback. Be able to motion him into and out of the backfield. If I motion him in, have him go from the slot to a pistol look. If I motion him out, have him go from his Pistol alignment to a Split gun alignment or orbit motion. F can motion to either side of the QB to lead block or be a ball carrier. Plus gain the ability to then motion a third back into the backfield opposite of F to create a diamond formation.
That's perfect world situation for me. Take the Train backfield and apply it to every WR/TE grouping possible. Get all the benefits of Pistol and all the benefits of a two back wing backfield, but now gain the ability to hand the ball to the second back.
If only, right
My latest evolution has been fully adopting HUNH.
I started the season running heavy under center power run, but realized it was idiotic to be playing in a box with arguably the best offensive personnel in the OD. Instead I decided to spread it out and go ludicrous speed all game. The ludicrous speed is my answer to exotic fronts and shifts defenses try and give me, hoping to really force them into being vanilla not knowing if the snap might come. I still vary my tempo, I'll go no huddle, fake a snap and stand there or get into another call just as much as I go no huddle and just repeat formation and play and snap it instantly.
The biggest issue with HUNH is really slimming down the playbook. When I'm in 11 personnel there are a bunch of formations I need to scroll through which slows things down. I'm getting a much better feel for calling plays and knowing what I'm going to run on the following play(s) before I run the current play. I'm also being less stubborn about just going ludicrous speed and running the same formation/play if it worked the play before.
I really need to slim down the offense as a whole though, because I'm repeating so many plays, I'm probably running no more than 30 individual plays in any given game of 65+ overall snaps. I also have some broken in-formation audibles that I need to fix.
As a whole though, my offense is full light speed. Once I get the playbook issues ironed out, I should be able to do a lot more on the fly.
I started the season running heavy under center power run, but realized it was idiotic to be playing in a box with arguably the best offensive personnel in the OD. Instead I decided to spread it out and go ludicrous speed all game. The ludicrous speed is my answer to exotic fronts and shifts defenses try and give me, hoping to really force them into being vanilla not knowing if the snap might come. I still vary my tempo, I'll go no huddle, fake a snap and stand there or get into another call just as much as I go no huddle and just repeat formation and play and snap it instantly.
The biggest issue with HUNH is really slimming down the playbook. When I'm in 11 personnel there are a bunch of formations I need to scroll through which slows things down. I'm getting a much better feel for calling plays and knowing what I'm going to run on the following play(s) before I run the current play. I'm also being less stubborn about just going ludicrous speed and running the same formation/play if it worked the play before.
I really need to slim down the offense as a whole though, because I'm repeating so many plays, I'm probably running no more than 30 individual plays in any given game of 65+ overall snaps. I also have some broken in-formation audibles that I need to fix.
As a whole though, my offense is full light speed. Once I get the playbook issues ironed out, I should be able to do a lot more on the fly.
So far my pass game is pretty generic, a lot screens and quick game based off of Z Spot/Y Corner and Shallow/Drive. Stuff that's fairly easy to get to and also create via hot routes as necessary. I'll take some four verts shots, usually off of in-formation quick audible if I happen to get a look I like.
The one thing I really like about HUNH is that I can call a PA Read play in the no huddle menu and hot route my receivers into various concepts while they are on their way back to the huddle. Lets me get the snap off fast and have a built in token PA fake. Also lets me hide the hot routes a lot better whereas if you call a play in the huddle and do a bunch of hot routes, it is clear to a user opponent what you're doing.
I run quite a few screens, especially bubble. Most of my base formations have built in bubble quick audible and I'll just throw it out there if it is uncovered. I'll throw now screens to outside receivers as well and a ton of swing screens and my double/triple screens. I can also get to a PA TE Screen in my 11 personnel tempo stuff and I can also go Fight Song out of 11 personnel.
Nothing I do is all that complex, I'm just running it really fast. I'm going to try to slim things even farther down.
Sounds like your liking this version of your offense I'm going back in the Tom Herman direction with mines so Tight Zone until I die audibles getting into different formations using the TE as a wildcard all at no huddle but you should do a revised write up for this version of your Offense
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not worried as much about total formations as I am formations per personnel grouping. I think 6-8 formations per personnel package is perfect, with each having a slightly different tweak or set of plays in it.
My 10 personnel stuff is perfect, right now it is 6 formations:
Flanker Close Wk
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
Trio 4WR
Trio 4WR Str
Trips Offset
6 formations, each with slightly different concepts available in them. More importantly, when I go HUNH, the formations are in the exact same order as they are in my playbook so getting through them is a lot more fluid. Why EA decided to make the formations scroll alphabetically when you go HUNH instead of the order they are in the playbook I do not know.
In 10 personnel and 20 personnel, it is fine. In 11 personnel, I currently have 14 formations including 2 under center and one Wildcat. The 14 formations themselves wouldn't be a problem, but a lot of them are essentially repeats (Normal Offset Wk and Normal Flex Wing Wk) to take advantage of certain concepts and worse, the formations are in a weird order with Trios and Treys between Normals and Wing/Y formations. Takes a lot of scrolling to just go from Normal Offset Wk to Wing Trips Offset Wk, something I do often get my twins to the field.
I can't afford to take out the two Trio formations since they are my primary way to attack 335 Stack, I can probably dump Trey Open Offset because the only reason I really have it is that Trail Shake play and I could probably really slim down on the wing formations. Without the game on, I'm guessing I'm around 25 formations at the moment, but 7 of them are under center, 1 Pistol and 1 Wildcat so I'm not too worried about the total number, I jump under center for short yardage or to simulate a Malzahn fire alarm huddle type of play and just run toss sweep to get the ball on the edge quick (great v Man).
Going to work on ironing things out soon as the season ends.
My 10 personnel stuff is perfect, right now it is 6 formations:
Flanker Close Wk
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
Trio 4WR
Trio 4WR Str
Trips Offset
6 formations, each with slightly different concepts available in them. More importantly, when I go HUNH, the formations are in the exact same order as they are in my playbook so getting through them is a lot more fluid. Why EA decided to make the formations scroll alphabetically when you go HUNH instead of the order they are in the playbook I do not know.
In 10 personnel and 20 personnel, it is fine. In 11 personnel, I currently have 14 formations including 2 under center and one Wildcat. The 14 formations themselves wouldn't be a problem, but a lot of them are essentially repeats (Normal Offset Wk and Normal Flex Wing Wk) to take advantage of certain concepts and worse, the formations are in a weird order with Trios and Treys between Normals and Wing/Y formations. Takes a lot of scrolling to just go from Normal Offset Wk to Wing Trips Offset Wk, something I do often get my twins to the field.
I can't afford to take out the two Trio formations since they are my primary way to attack 335 Stack, I can probably dump Trey Open Offset because the only reason I really have it is that Trail Shake play and I could probably really slim down on the wing formations. Without the game on, I'm guessing I'm around 25 formations at the moment, but 7 of them are under center, 1 Pistol and 1 Wildcat so I'm not too worried about the total number, I jump under center for short yardage or to simulate a Malzahn fire alarm huddle type of play and just run toss sweep to get the ball on the edge quick (great v Man).
Going to work on ironing things out soon as the season ends.
I will say that I had the best offensive game I've ever had last night playing a very bad, winless, CPU UConn team. Obviously that doesn't matter a whole lot since it is a winless CPU team, but I ran 107 plays in a 7 minute quarter game and totaled 43 first downs and 789 yards. That was only really possible since UConn's offense was trash and had like 8 first downs and 200 yards so I had the ball all game long but 107 plays is 107 plays.
I'm happy when I'm in the 60-70 play range vs users and in the 70-80 play range vs the CPU. For 7 minute quarters and the ease with which most users move the ball, I think getting 60-70 plays off is a solid landmark. I've had quite a few 10 play, 75 yard, 2:00 long type of drives just going full speed max tempo so that's a good way to get play totals up.
I'm happy when I'm in the 60-70 play range vs users and in the 70-80 play range vs the CPU. For 7 minute quarters and the ease with which most users move the ball, I think getting 60-70 plays off is a solid landmark. I've had quite a few 10 play, 75 yard, 2:00 long type of drives just going full speed max tempo so that's a good way to get play totals up.
Why not take out Trio offset and add trips te offset I feel like the latter is better because it also has counter in itI'm not worried as much about total formations as I am formations per personnel grouping. I think 6-8 formations per personnel package is perfect, with each having a slightly different tweak or set of plays in it.
My 10 personnel stuff is perfect, right now it is 6 formations:
Flanker Close Wk
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
Trio 4WR
Trio 4WR Str
Trips Offset
6 formations, each with slightly different concepts available in them. More importantly, when I go HUNH, the formations are in the exact same order as they are in my playbook so getting through them is a lot more fluid. Why EA decided to make the formations scroll alphabetically when you go HUNH instead of the order they are in the playbook I do not know.
In 10 personnel and 20 personnel, it is fine. In 11 personnel, I currently have 14 formations including 2 under center and one Wildcat. The 14 formations themselves wouldn't be a problem, but a lot of them are essentially repeats (Normal Offset Wk and Normal Flex Wing Wk) to take advantage of certain concepts and worse, the formations are in a weird order with Trios and Treys between Normals and Wing/Y formations. Takes a lot of scrolling to just go from Normal Offset Wk to Wing Trips Offset Wk, something I do often get my twins to the field.
I can't afford to take out the two Trio formations since they are my primary way to attack 335 Stack, I can probably dump Trey Open Offset because the only reason I really have it is that Trail Shake play and I could probably really slim down on the wing formations. Without the game on, I'm guessing I'm around 25 formations at the moment, but 7 of them are under center, 1 Pistol and 1 Wildcat so I'm not too worried about the total number, I jump under center for short yardage or to simulate a Malzahn fire alarm huddle type of play and just run toss sweep to get the ball on the edge quick (great v Man).
Going to work on ironing things out soon as the season ends.
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nofx94
Active Member
Motion triple option from trio offset is one of the best home run bitters in the game. Has been since the PS2 days. And now you can run it both ways for constraint purposes.
Edit: I was talking about Trio offset, not trio 4 wide, but the point still kind of stands. Kind of.
Edit: I was talking about Trio offset, not trio 4 wide, but the point still kind of stands. Kind of.
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Still would encounter the order issue but I may do that anyway just for the Counter play since I've pretty much slimmed down my run game to Inside Zone and Counter.
I'll probably end up removing Trey Open Offset, which is a nice formation for that Trail Shake play and an easy way to get in a 3x1 spread in 11 personnel but I don't go to it that much and it is in the way a lot. I may pull one or two wing formations in 11 personnel just to slim things down.
10 personnel and 20 personnel are perfect at the moment, although I'd really like to add a 20 personnel under center formation that I can sneak into here and there. I really do like jumping under center quickly in 11 personnel, especially to run the PA TE Screen in Ace Slot Flex, not many people can adjust to it and it goes for a bit gain off of tempo. Same with Wildcat Fight Song.
I just need to go through the playbook and rip stuff out. Even in a game where I run 60-80 plays I'm still calling maybe 30 individual plays. Run game stuff especially needs to be slimmed down, I'm basically running IZ/Counter for the entire run game. I have all the triple option stuff still in the playbook, but I rarely (if ever) run it so that may have to go too.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Huh?
Most of my formations are right around the 9-15 plays per formation area, which helps a lot. If you start getting over that, it will be too much.
In my case, my formations are really just variations of the same 3 alignments: 2x1, 2x2, 3x1. The only differences are slight tweaks to who is on/off the line of scrimmage and tweaks to where the second back (H) aligns. In a perfect world, I wouldn't need to put 8 different 2x1 wing gun formations in the playbook when the reality is there are only 4 possible variations Slant and Stack Str/Wk. Unfortunately, each wing gun formation has slightly different plays available and so I end up doubling up.
Having to do it that way leads to a lot more bulk than I want, but it is "easy" bulk because the formations are just variations of the same looks. If you boil it down, I'm really only 2x1, 2x2, 3x1 plus some special formations.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
That's basically all I want to be... 2x1,2×2, and 3x1
I would like to have around 10 plays a formation... But when I remove plays to reach that number... I feel like I've removed too much!
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LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I feel like I'm just running the same couple of plays Ovr & ovr!
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
And what @TXHusker05 is doing is about the same. Split zone, power, counter trey, read option, speed option, screen, playaction bomb, and a few quick passes.
Yep, that's the entirety of what I'm doing. I don't even run "Power" anymore, I just use the one back Counter play in my single back formations as Power... since in reality, that's exactly what it is in game. Power in game isn't blocked as Power, but one back Counter is blocked exactly like Power and two back Counter is blocked very authentically (if run right).
My run game is every variation of inside zone (one back dive, read, split zone, split zone read/slice and maybe one or two triple options) plus Trap and Counter Trey* (more on that below). I may mix in a a few speed options or HB Toss (both gun and under center) and I'll throw in some Jet action (although I rarely actually run the Jet) but in reality, it is IZ, Counter and Trap. The end.
My pass game is just your standard quick game. Slants, snag/spot and shallows plus a variety of screens. I'll use PA Read+Hot Routes to create a few deep shots off of my IZ action and I'll quick audible to four verts if someone really gets aggressive with press/manual safeties but that is really it.
I think in my case, the biggest game changing moment came when I figured out two back Counter from two back wing offset gun. I spent way too long trying to run two back Counter the "traditional" way spread guys like Malzahn or Meyer run it where everyone blocks down, BSG kicks the DE and the H-Back leads through in the B to C Gap area (depending on where the end man is aligned).
Ohio State's Counter:
Auburn/Malzahn Counter:
You just can't run Counter like that from the gun in game, the H-Back doesn't fold through the gap like that and even if he does, he doesn't really block anything he just clogs the hole. Not to mention the back's footwork does not make it easy for him to cut back inside. Once he takes the handoff, he's running almost parallel to the LOS.
Instead, I'm running Counter like Nebraska's old Counter Sweep (good write up on the play here including Nebraska clinic video). Nebraska typically ran Counter Sweep out of one back sets (shown below), but I'm running it out of two back Gun sets with the G and H as the pullers. Everyone still blocks down, but the BSG's block is more of a log block keeping the DE inside and then the H-Back is wrapping around and blocking first color which is typically going to be the Safety or OLB to that side, whichever the slot WR doesn't block. It is really a wide D Gap type of play.
The end result is essentially a blend of Counter Trey and Buck Sweep, allowing me to blend two Malzahn plays together into one.
Nebraska's Counter Sweep:
Auburn/Malzahn Buck Sweep:
I've found that I can utilize all the variations of inside zone plus this version of Counter Trey/Sweep and then trap to split the difference between the two and I have just about everything I need. My inside zone game can really attack any gap from B gap to B gap depending on the front, my counter game can compliment the inside zone play since it looks just like inside zone at the snap and lets me attack outside and my trap game gives me a hard hitting downhill inside zone-like run play with the pulling guard of Counter. I honestly don't believe I need more than that, especially when I'm running everything at ludicrous speed.
Yeah a ton of teams have started building in QB Counter plays. It is a really easy play to install and even if you don't have a QB that can run, surely you have a back that can take the direct snap for Wildcat purposes. Damn near everyone runs some form of a counter play and even if you don't, you can run whatever blocking scheme you'd like for the QB. If you like split zone, run QB Split Zone out of an Empty Wing set. If you like Wham or Iso, run Wham or Iso the same way.
I've actually been thinking about adding back some Wildcat so I can run Q Counter with Watson next season. He isn't the best runner, but I love the idea of being able to use him that way without relying on read keeps and wrap. Plus Wildcat Slot/Spread/Spread Flex are all 21 personnel formations so I could get to them via both Split Y Offset and my Strong I Fire Alarm stuff*.
* - I'm not sure it would mesh up well. I assume Split Y Offset to Wildcat Spread Flex would be:
-----X---------------T-G-C-G-T---------------Z-----
------------------------------H-----------------------
---------------------------Q--------------------------
-------------------------R---F------------------------
-----X---------------T-G-C-G-T---------------Z-----
--------------F---------------R--------H--------------
---------------------------Q--------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
That probably isn't the worst thing in the world but not ideal. I really would like to add a 4th personnel grouping to my tempo. Right now I have 10, 11 and some 20. Adding 21 (although likely with 11 or 12 personnel) would make for a nice little mix.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I've been researching a lot of stuff lately... Just about everything I can find info on! It's interesting and fun...but makes things more difficult too!
My dilemma is... the more I learn about actual X's and O's. The more I want to implement it into my game play. That's where my problems begin. Although I played football in high school... It wasn't till my Sr. Year!
I'd never played any organized football on any level. I was raised by a grandmother who always feared I'd get hurt. Long story short... She would never give consent.
I've watched football my entire life but had no knowledge of X's and O's. I've been playing this game since PS2 days and NCAA 07 I think it was. I was better then than I am now.. LoL
I actually ran nothing but money plays on offense! That was my scheme. I didn't know anything else.. I ran option because I was always a Nebraska and Oklahoma option and wishbone fan. It's why I was so pass heavy as a option runner also. I didn't know what to look for from a defense so I ran plays. Once someone stopped my running I killed them with the passing.
So I nvr had to read defenses just look where safeties were. That worked with no problems until NCAA 12. I was able to get by and actually beat 4 guys in top 5 of the ranked 100 leaderboard online. I even won a NC in the old Utopia BSCFL.
When 12 came out they did away with the old option run playbook... That was the only playbook I'd ever used. It became very difficult for me because I didn't know anything about running another offense. So since NCAA 12 I've been trying to learn here and there about actual X's and O's! So It's also the reason why I'm always changing my scheme.
The more I learn the more I want to implement. Which leads to problems because I still haven't really learned to read defenses. I've picked up little keys here and there but nothing concrete. I'm finally starting to understand a lot... And why my scheme works great and then implodes.
So I said all this to say.. Thanks to you guys for your write up's and detailed post and threads and discussions. It's taught me a lot And helped me to really appreciate what's actually going on in a actual real football game. It's also inspired me to work on being a better player... Although, It doesn't always appear that way.
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My dilemma is... the more I learn about actual X's and O's. The more I want to implement it into my game play. That's where my problems begin. Although I played football in high school... It wasn't till my Sr. Year!
I'd never played any organized football on any level. I was raised by a grandmother who always feared I'd get hurt. Long story short... She would never give consent.
I've watched football my entire life but had no knowledge of X's and O's. I've been playing this game since PS2 days and NCAA 07 I think it was. I was better then than I am now.. LoL
I actually ran nothing but money plays on offense! That was my scheme. I didn't know anything else.. I ran option because I was always a Nebraska and Oklahoma option and wishbone fan. It's why I was so pass heavy as a option runner also. I didn't know what to look for from a defense so I ran plays. Once someone stopped my running I killed them with the passing.
So I nvr had to read defenses just look where safeties were. That worked with no problems until NCAA 12. I was able to get by and actually beat 4 guys in top 5 of the ranked 100 leaderboard online. I even won a NC in the old Utopia BSCFL.
When 12 came out they did away with the old option run playbook... That was the only playbook I'd ever used. It became very difficult for me because I didn't know anything about running another offense. So since NCAA 12 I've been trying to learn here and there about actual X's and O's! So It's also the reason why I'm always changing my scheme.
The more I learn the more I want to implement. Which leads to problems because I still haven't really learned to read defenses. I've picked up little keys here and there but nothing concrete. I'm finally starting to understand a lot... And why my scheme works great and then implodes.
So I said all this to say.. Thanks to you guys for your write up's and detailed post and threads and discussions. It's taught me a lot And helped me to really appreciate what's actually going on in a actual real football game. It's also inspired me to work on being a better player... Although, It doesn't always appear that way.
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@LEGEND
Agree with @JSU Zack, there are some really good references there especially regarding coverages and how to identify them.
Specifically for NCAA, I would honestly say there is nothing better than just going to practice mode and running your core pass plays against every coverage. Let's say you want to run Shallow Cross a bunch, go into practice mode and call Cover 2 Zone, run the play 5 times and see how the players align and react. Then do it vs Cover 3 and then vs 2 Man and then vs man free/Cover 1 and then vs some sort of blitz. You'll start to pick up patterns on how players will align and where the soft spot in the coverage will be, even before you snap it and read the coverage.
If you're struggling vs a specific defense, 335 for example, go to practice mode against a 335 team (Arizona, New Mexico and WVU I think) and do the same thing. See how the defense aligns and you'll start to pick up the patterns and get an idea where you're going to attack before the snap.
Doing that and then understanding the timing of the plays you're running is the best possible thing you can do passing the ball. QBA 5 is not very forgiving if your timing is off so knowing when your receivers are going to come out of their routes is huge. Like anything, familiarity is key.
Agree with @JSU Zack, there are some really good references there especially regarding coverages and how to identify them.
Specifically for NCAA, I would honestly say there is nothing better than just going to practice mode and running your core pass plays against every coverage. Let's say you want to run Shallow Cross a bunch, go into practice mode and call Cover 2 Zone, run the play 5 times and see how the players align and react. Then do it vs Cover 3 and then vs 2 Man and then vs man free/Cover 1 and then vs some sort of blitz. You'll start to pick up patterns on how players will align and where the soft spot in the coverage will be, even before you snap it and read the coverage.
If you're struggling vs a specific defense, 335 for example, go to practice mode against a 335 team (Arizona, New Mexico and WVU I think) and do the same thing. See how the defense aligns and you'll start to pick up the patterns and get an idea where you're going to attack before the snap.
Doing that and then understanding the timing of the plays you're running is the best possible thing you can do passing the ball. QBA 5 is not very forgiving if your timing is off so knowing when your receivers are going to come out of their routes is huge. Like anything, familiarity is key.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the info @TXHusker05 and @JSU Zack!
I think i'm going to really simplify everything as much as possible. I'm going to focus on using plays like hitches and screens along with a quick hitting passing game. I've never been a screen or hitch person.
Going to keep it really simple... As I get more adept at reading what defenses are doing... I'll add more to the scheme. Going to focus on a inside & outside zone run game. I'm just going to have to take my lumps... I'm going to lose but I lose now anyway!
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Thanks for all the info @TXHusker05 and @JSU Zack!
I think i'm going to really simplify everything as much as possible. I'm going to focus on using plays like hitches and screens along with a quick hitting passing game. I've never been a screen or hitch person.
Going to keep it really simple... As I get more adept at reading what defenses are doing... I'll add more to the scheme. Going to focus on a inside & outside zone run game. I'm just going to have to take my lumps... I'm going to lose but I lose now anyway!
Hahaha
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The zone running game is possibly the greatest advent in the past thirty years. Alex & Joe Gibbs will be remembered as their generations' Bill Walsh.
Before someone says something about he spread, that's all old stuff rehashed. The HUNH is a close 2nd.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Fazzu getting #reckt
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Looks like they already are a power.
They besides Miami and USC/UCLA are in perfect recruiting areas they right off the bat have a 5* DT coming in next season
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A lot of the users in our ODs try to do so many shifts of safeties and linebackers to try and hedge their bets against the run without getting too far out of position for pass defense. Honestly, I think it hurts people more than it helps. If you start moving guys all over the place, inevitably you're going to create a hole somewhere else. Some people are really good at it, but most people are just moving guys to move them.
You have to either dedicate yourself to stopping the run or dedicate yourself to stopping the pass. The people that try and do both are the people I know I can exploit because they're moving guys around to places I know I can exploit. The people who walk safeties down off the edge to try and stop my read keepers or counter game are a good example, yeah you probably take away my bubble game and you set the edge well but I can also check to inside zone and it is one cut and gone because your deep safety isn't there to help clean up.
My defense involves almost zero manual movements and hidden coverages, I rarely move anyone except the manual FS who I control ~90% of the time. If I'm facing someone who uses an excessive amount of unbalanced formations, I may switch off to the backside OLB away from the trips so I can bracket the solo WR. Really, my three core coverages look identical at the snap which helps a lot.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Cover 3, Cover 1, and... ?
Yep, Cover 2 Invert. That's the one that always gets people because they see me playing aggressive with the FS in the middle of the field and think they can attack behind it or in the flat but inverted Cover 2 covers both. It's a simple audible at the LOS and its hidden well.
Inverted Cover 2 out of 44 (with 425 personnel) also benefits from allowing the CB to play over vs twins/trips over sets, which I can't do in 425.