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New League Discussion

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Luxury tax would just be money that vanishes into thin air?

I'm not sure what level we have revenue sharing but I've paid ~$22m the last two years. I assume that goes to other teams?
 
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NML

Well-Known Member
As Travis suggested but I didn’t realize was actually possible, is just to add in our new owners, allow them to change teams, reset budgets and market sizes, alter the rules as described above, and sim ahead 20+ years and start again.

I think this covers a lot of the issues on both sides, and I could still take the lead on it if needed

Would like more thoughts on this, and maybe more specifically if there’s any people against it

If the big disagreement is playoffs, we can establish that later, but only Orlando seems to be against it
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
I don't like the numbers on the playoffs, I think Bo7 is still the best way to do it. If the complaint is about good regular season teams losing, bo1 will be even worse. Otherwise it depends on league size.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I don't like the numbers on the playoffs, I think Bo7 is still the best way to do it. If the complaint is about good regular season teams losing, bo1 will be even worse. Otherwise it depends on league size.
I don' think the complaint is about regular season teams losing from my end. The issue is when there's no difference between finishing 1st and 4th, teams stop caring sooner.
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
I don't see the issue with the current league.

I've done full tank cycles of 7ish years and rebuilt entirely through the draft multiple times. Keeping runs going gets my budget up to a good level. When my core gets old I tank again.

I don't do spreadsheets, I just draft greens and blues and target @irishmans. It's not hard, if you keep exporting you'll win eventually.
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
I don't see the issue with the current league.

I've done full tank cycles of 7ish years and rebuilt entirely through the draft multiple times. Keeping runs going gets my budget up to a good level. When my core gets old I tank again.

I don't do spreadsheets, I just draft greens and blues and target @irishmans. It's not hard, if you keep exporting you'll win eventually.
This is basically the reason why I think its just solely a "new player tutorials are needed" problem (+ nerf IFA) rather than a new league problem. If just 2 of the 7 people tagged are willing to (re)join the WBL and we help them along (+hayvis if needed), that'll be pretty much the same. It's just that some of the stuff I know to do I keep close to my vest or veil in memes (no fragiles, very high w/e int only) which end up sounding like I'm being 0% true rather than 50% true (Normal W/E High Int is fine too!)

Gimme rule change debates + Rad + 2 new owners from this thread over New League - Rad/Travis any day (though again, I'll personally play both)
 

NML

Well-Known Member
I don't see the issue with the current league.

I've done full tank cycles of 7ish years and rebuilt entirely through the draft multiple times. Keeping runs going gets my budget up to a good level. When my core gets old I tank again.

I don't do spreadsheets, I just draft greens and blues and target @irishmans. It's not hard, if you keep exporting you'll win eventually.

People who have been here since the beginning aren’t the standard for how we should operate to retain people.

It’s great that you know you can reset and tank and then become good again, but that’s not how new owners feel, as evidenced by the fact that no one has stuck around in four years.

The league is dying, it’s only alive this week because I’m trying to shake things up. I don’t know how you see all these things and say “I don’t see the issue with the current league”

Frankly, the attitude of “they need to adjust to our rules” is one that detracts potential owners
 

jdlikewhoa

Well-Known Member
I don't really agree with killing IFA. To add what I mentioned to you in PMs, NML... I don't think eliminating ways for HAVES to spend money helps the HAVE NOTS. But I love IFA so maybe I'm based.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I’m definitely based and I hate IFA from a former commish perspective. It’s a fun idea but the issue is it can really mess with the overall league talent which is something you try to control with the background settings. I’m sure it’s all different from OOTP18 which was the last I played but I remember it adding a big wildcard to the whole thing.

Here’s my devil’s advocate to the “make playoffs more exclusive”

To keep teams from tanking they need a reason not to tank. Eliminating playoff spots means one less reason not to tank. And although tanking is my favorite way to play and rebuild, I definitely see that it hurts the overall league to have teams tanking.

If I see I’m definitely not top 3, I won’t gun for 4th or 5th if I’m playing the game efficiently. I’ll tank and gun for 8th. And back when I was active you had a good hierarchy for at least top 2 and usually top 3.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I mean maybe the league was a failure, but check the OOTP boards. You won’t see many leagues lasting nearly 50 years summing with the crazy speed/frequency we do.

The fact that it’s still going means we did good Quale
 

jdlikewhoa

Well-Known Member
Lets rebrand this bitch and get moving if that's what we're going to do. If we spend a week getting it done, Immersion for everyone will be 20/80
 

NML

Well-Known Member
I mean maybe the league was a failure, but check the OOTP boards. You won’t see many leagues lasting nearly 50 years summing with the crazy speed/frequency we do.

Hopefully you don’t look at this whole thing as me (and others) bashing you or ur work. The league has been massively successful, but it’s also been like six years and it’s probably time to rehaul things

I think there’s a middle ground to playoffs and we can find it. I’d be more in favor of a lottery system with the draft - although I can’t remember how possible that is/isn’t. If we do a lottery, combined with a lower budget (even if it’s higher than it would be in our current set up) I would think that would deter people enough.

I also think people enjoy rebuilding so you can de-incentivize it as much as you want and it won’t matter to a point

And I still think there should be a tangible benefit to finishing each spot higher to keep every game and every sim important
 

NML

Well-Known Member
Lets rebrand this bitch and get moving if that's what we're going to do. If we spend a week getting it done, Immersion for everyone will be 20/80

Talking through things, I think the play is to let this season finish out, during which we can move teams, do testing, etc., reset budgets and rules and bring in our new owners, then sim ahead 20 years and go.
 

jdlikewhoa

Well-Known Member
I also think we need set sim times and a Commish that can sim regularly. Immersion gets killed when we go 2-3 days with no sims and we never know what time of day they're coming.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
One thing I’d love is a one game playoff of some sort. Even if you do your 6 team playoffs with the 3/4 seed battling for the final spot in a one game playoff would work for me. That way id still try for 4th. It makes 1st feel good for the bye (I guess, i like watching my team play but to each his own) and 2nd feels good because they aren’t in the one game playoff
 
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NML

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One thing I’d also like to do - if I’m given O powers which also needs discussed - is bring some random live sims. Could be a good breeding ground for bringing people to the forums for discussion
 

NML

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t be a bad idea to let new people mess with the system, and gives me (us) some time to put together the content they need, do testing on different adjustments, get new logos
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
I mean maybe the league was a failure, but check the OOTP boards. You won’t see many leagues lasting nearly 50 years summing with the crazy speed/frequency we do.

I've been in multiple leagues, none had close to the immersion, fun, balance, and commitment that the WBL has.

Most leagues sim 3 times a week! Most league boards are dead. Most leagues have zero shtick and zero sense of humor. No league has balance as good as the Os managed.

I'm fine with a new league if that's what everyone wants to do. I'll still play with you all, and a mix up might help. I'll bring the Winter Meetings back. But I think the reason @TonyGin&Juice is the only player who stuck is that he's the only the only dude we recruited from outside of this dying vine. There's only so many dead football forum posters interested in playing a text baseball sim.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
There is nothing wrong with tanking, unless you tank like @Yankee151. Even MLB is Tank or All In.

Well it’s the smart thing to do if your team isn’t that good, but there’s no doubt that a league full of competing teams will make FA operate in a healthier way.

The biggest challenge I felt the league had was how to get FA work correctly when we only had half the league trying to win. I love the tank and rebuild cycle but it does create some issues
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
I mean MLB has that same problem, lol. I was listening to Nerdtopia's favorite podcast, Effectively Wild, go on about this for the hundredth time today.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
Well it’s the smart thing to do if your team isn’t that good, but there’s no doubt that a league full of competing teams will make FA operate in a healthier way.

The biggest challenge I felt the league had was how to get FA work correctly when we only had half the league trying to win. I love the tank and rebuild cycle but it does create some issues

8 owners trying to win and 8 tanking >>>> 8 owners playing
 

Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
tenor.gif
Exhibit A
 

NML

Well-Known Member
Can we get verbals from @worst2first and @GuyIncognito also

I reached out to both of them, but didn’t hear back. Also reached out to osick (on PSN). Got a no from Millsy and a couple other people who I thought might be good fits. But I think we have enough people that we can have a full league, and hopefully we can maintain

Who needs new owners? OU is BACK so just Lisbon in the WL, Buffalo and Kabul for sure. So just 3? Done

Full league UR WELCOME
 

ZackMills

Have mercy
He'd have sanctions of course. Like he can only use position players as pitchers for X number of seasons.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
NEW LEAGUE TO DO LIST

- determine new three owners
- finalize new playoff format
- determine possible weighted lottery system
- begin new finances testing
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
I reached out to both of them, but didn’t hear back. Also reached out to osick (on PSN). Got a no from Millsy and a couple other people who I thought might be good fits. But I think we have enough people that we can have a full league, and hopefully we can maintain

Who needs new owners? OU is BACK so just Lisbon in the WL, Buffalo and Kabul for sure. So just 3? Done

Full league UR WELCOME
Lloyd runs Buffalo!
 
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