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NCAA Defensive Discussion

Discussion in 'NCAA Football Discussion' started by bruin228, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. FSS

    FSS Member

    Posts:
    41
    Well im sure your would lol. However, I dont mind pass commit as much. While it disrespects ratings as well it doesnt have that defensive warping effect, and doesnt break cpu ai like run commit. There is less "have your cake and eat it too" with pass commit imo.

    Ea should have never implemented either tho. But to their credit in Madden its way less arcardish.
     
    JAR201166 likes this.
  2. Downinthebend

    Downinthebend Active Member

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    189
    Does someone want to teach me defense?

    Basics to complex, etc.

    I'm pretty fucking horrible, I run a Nykia inspired bend-but-break 3-3-5 stack.

    Thinking of trying out something different with a 4-2-5.

    Any tips, strategy, etc

    Like, atm I don't user anyone on defense, I know that needs to change, anyone have tips on how to user pick (timing, etc?)
     
  3. bruin228

    bruin228 Madden Mobile Addict NCAA Moderator

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    Well, you user someone lol, you have to

    What do you want your defense to look like?
     
  4. Downinthebend

    Downinthebend Active Member

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    Not sure, willing to build it up from basics. I've been a fire-zone guy for a long time.
     
  5. JAR201166

    JAR201166 Well-Known Member

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    Alabama
    Defense is impossible in NCAA
     
  6. Downinthebend

    Downinthebend Active Member

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    But its gotta be better than giving up 73 points in 5 min quarters with default sliders, right?
     
  7. bruin228

    bruin228 Madden Mobile Addict NCAA Moderator

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    Find which zone/look you want to base out of. @bluejay13 uses a lot of 2 high stuff, I use a lot of 1 high, etc. If you're going to run something other than a 3-3-5, your front should correspond with your zone call. So if you're going to base out of Cover 2, you want to base out of 4-3 Stack, 4-2-5 Over, or 3-4 Over (or Odd). Cover 3, 4-3 Under, 4-2-5 Under, 3-4 Under (or Odd). If you're gonna run the 3-3-5, they're all odd fronts with the exception of 3-3-5 Bear and you can run virtually anything with an Odd front. Next, understand where the weak spots in those zones and where the "bubble" in the front is as well as gap responsibilities.

    [​IMG]

    If you get this look, where is the best place to run the ball? In between the LT and LG, that's the "bubble." The weaknesses in zone you should know already because you're a good passer. Also think about the coverages when the defenders are off and when they're pressed. Cover 3 press, people are going to try to go over the top, so you need to have good DBs and carry the inside verticals with a LB or SS if they throw four verts at you. Off Cover 3, the first place people are going to attack is the outside with curls and deep outs, so you need to take those away, either manually or hot routing your flats to buzzes. Regardless, what Kirk says ad nauseum in the game is true. There are always going to be places to exploit, you just have to be aware of those areas and do your best to minimize them. Oh, and above all, you need talent, especially up front. The worst secondary in the world can still confuse people every once in a while if they're expecting Cover 3 and get 2 Man Under or something, but the worst defensive line in the world is asking to get run on 40-50 times a game in a game where the run is overpowered, which means you are probably going to lose.

    You can user whoever, but most people prefer taking an LB or safety because you can user cover and try to cover up the holes in your zones. You can still user a lineman, though; bluejay did it/does it and gets good pressure. Or you can shift according to situation, like playing with an LB normally but shifting to a DE on 3rd and long to get a better pass and force a quicker throw or come up with a sack.
     
    bluejay13 and Atmore like this.
  8. Downinthebend

    Downinthebend Active Member

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    So lets talk standard down run defense, my theory is that basically to stop outside runs you just want a cloud/buzz/sky in force? Probably cloud is "Strongest" force I'd imagine? what in this video game somewhat stops in side runs?

    Can you explain why the fronts you mentioned matched with Cover 2, but anything matches with odd fronts?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  9. bruin228

    bruin228 Madden Mobile Addict NCAA Moderator

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    Force players are the guys that are tasked with turning the ball back inside, so they're not really going to help out with inside runs. Mostly user play and front seven talent, but pinching or slanting your line or bringing a safety into the box helps.
     
    bluejay13 likes this.
  10. JAR201166

    JAR201166 Well-Known Member

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    Run commit
     
  11. FSS

    FSS Member

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    You always want a force player no matter what defense you play. Who the force player is, is dictated by the secondary coverage you choose. Ex: Cover 2 will have cloud (corner) force. Cover 3 will have either buzz(backer) force, or sky(safety force).

    Choose the coverage first. Pick the one that you feel solves the most problems for you. To me it cover 3. You have a plus 1 advantage in the box unless the qb is a run threat, and its basically the same as cover 2(Tampa 2) in the game as far as zones it defends. The only difference is the who defends those zones and having the extra defender in the box.

    You stop run in general by
    1) having more in the box then the offense can block
    2) Defending the gaps where they want to run

    [​IMG]

    For example

    This play is attacking the C gap. (Tip: don't go by what it say on playcall screen go by what it says on play art on the field)
    [​IMG]
    (I just quickly google some images I don't own these)


    So to defend this play generally you want someone in the c gap. What this will do is give the defender leverage to where the offense is attacking. What should happen is it will force the defender to bounce, which allows time for pursuit from you box players where you hopefully have a man free because you have more defenders in the box then they can block.
     
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  12. Downinthebend

    Downinthebend Active Member

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    Thanks for the post,

    Its my understanding that you can actually get Sky/Buzz/Cloud out of either cover 3/2 its just how you rotate the players.

    I actually hate that scheme of techs, skipping 8 hurts my head.

    How do you play gap sound defense vs inside runs in ncaa 14?
     
  13. NavyHog

    NavyHog Well-Known Member Utopia Moderator NCAA Moderator

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    IMO there is little similarity between sound defense and vidya defense. I find more success with a 3 man front and 4-5 LBs and Safeties in the box. @bluejay13 is really sound with using a 4 man front and using a DT. I prefer to use a safety and force things inside that my LBs can clean up.
     
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  14. FSS

    FSS Member

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  15. Downinthebend

    Downinthebend Active Member

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    can someone explain the timing of switching to a defender and going for the interception, seems like I can never get what should be sure interceptions, but I face some users that are 100% interception on even very contested throws
     
  16. JAR201166

    JAR201166 Well-Known Member

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    You have to hold down y
     
  17. Smashmouth

    Smashmouth Member

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    Team:
    Notre Dame
    I like to run an aggressive 3-4 with Cover 3, Cover 1, man & cover 2 depending on which package I’m running for the situation.

    It’s a custom playbook that features a lot of formation subs in certain packages. It’s got a few 3-4 fronts, 3-3-5 Okie is my “nickel”, 3-2-6 as Dime, and a 5-2 front for short yardage/goal line situations.

    I like this defense specially because you can attack from a lot of angles and I find the recruiting aspect really immersive. It takes a few seasons to really install with the personnel you need but I’ve had a lot of success (offline anyway).
     
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  18. Smashmouth

    Smashmouth Member

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    Team:
    Notre Dame
    I can do a longer breakdown when I can get on the 360 and pull up the playbook with the actual formation sets/subs and plays. My 34 functions almost more as a 43 Under if you flipped the front seven.

    As far as personnel goes, I try to build the defense from the inside-out. I don’t focus so much on tendencies (run stopper or pass rusher, etc) as I do individual stats. You can find Run Stoppers that are faster than coverage/pass rush guys and vice versa.

    NT - lynchpin of the entire defense. The game doesn’t double team but I still like to have a monster in this spot. Strength, block shed, power/finesse moves are the main things I look for. If they have good acceleration that’s an added bonus since they’re primarily shooting gaps. I don’t recruit anyone under 300lbs for this position but the bigger the better in my book (I’m a stickler for realism).

    LDE - I view this position as what you’d typically see as a 3/5 tech. I still want a big body here that can shed blocks and push the pocket, but with more quicks than the NT. I like them to be 265-270lbs when recruiting with the goal for them to be close to 290 before they leave. You can find DEs that big so I don’t make a habit of getting a lighter DT and switching positions (it’s an option if you prefer).

    RDE - 5/7 tech. Same rules apply, strong/block shedding with more of an emphasis on pass rushing than run stopping. I like these guys to be a little smaller/quicker than their left side counterparts but I’m not one to skimp on the beef. If I can have them in the 280 ballpark by graduation that is great.

    LOLB - Think Von Miller/Khalil Mack for how I want to utilize them in the 34 packages. This guy is rushing every down (I don’t flip plays and remove anything that has them dropping into zone/running man). They also serve as my RDE in the nickel/dime sets (via formation subs). I recruit a DE and then change positions. You’ll take a knock in ratings, but I RS them almost always so in the end it doesn’t effect too much by the time they hit the field. Acceleration, finesse/power moves are key.

    ROLB - Force defender for the right side of the defense in 34. I like guys who are athletic with good speed, tackling, coverage abilities, and pursuit. They are doing a little bit of everything from blitzing, playing man/zone, and running down ball carriers. I play them as a traditional OLB or MLB (depending on personnel) in the nickel/dime sets.

    MLB - These guys can really make or break this defense so I spend a lot of time dissecting them as recruits. Awareness, acceleration & pursuit are big ones, with a different emphasis on run/coverage abilities for each (Mike/Jack). It’s a thing of beauty to see your LBs shooting gaps on run plays and racking up TFLs. For the Mike spot, I want a thumper who can fill the uncovered gaps and take on blocks without getting blown up. He needs good strength, block shedding + tackling/hit power ratings. Jack is more the scrape/cover LB so getting off blocks is still important but I want this guy to be quicker and able to get back into coverage over the middle or pick up a back coming out.

    For the secondary I try to mimic what Seattle was doing with the Legion of Boom. I want a fast FS to cover the deep middle in cover 3 or single high in my 34 sets with two long, rangy corners for man/deep third. The SS is more for run support, but I like them to be good enough in coverage where TEs aren’t constantly beating them.

    FS - Speed, acceleration, awareness and coverage abilities are important. Ball skills are obviously nice too. I need them be able to get sideline to sideline to cover over the top on deep balls or lock down the deep middle of the field.

    CBs - Lockdown. Speed, agility, awareness, coverage. These guys are playing man and have deep 3rd responsibilities so I need them to be able to fly around. If I can get them with some tackling and hitting power stats it’s all the better.

    SS - force defender and run supporter. Speed is nice but I like this position to have better tackling, hit power, and pursuit stats. I keep them down close to the box in most sets where they are either manning the TE or playing zone to the outside, but need be to able to hold their own in the run game. I like to stunt them with the LOLB to create mismatches in pass protection on occasion.

    It takes a lot of time and attention to detail with recruiting/formation subs and some recruiting cycles to get all the personnel right, but I have enjoyed playing this defense more than any other I have tried.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  19. Craig7835

    Craig7835 Active Member

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    Alabama
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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  20. FSS

    FSS Member

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    41
    I like your idea about always having RLB always blitzing. That is the main reason I never used/liked the 3-4. I always felt my best pass rushers(OLB's) had to drop in coverage half the time. Every time I had 3-4 defense I usually try tried to switch it to a 4-3 and have the OLB become DE's because of this, or play more of a nickle base defense. One last thing in a traditional 3-4 defense do you slant the DE's away from you RLB since if it is a pass, the Left Side De (at least imo) isn't in a good position to contain the qb from the 5tech spot?

    Good post nice to have football talk on the board again.
     
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