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Let's talk about Bish, babby

Void extension?


  • Total voters
    20

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Retroactively making changes is just so bush league, it's worse than accidentally trading picks you don't have.

Worse than that is drawing the conclusion that now people will actively cheat.

You know how to combat that second one? Propose a solution for this problem going forward. Shit's not hard gentlemen.
 

Wolfman21

Well-Known Member
I have a reel hard time believing we ever had a unanimous decision on anything, but when ur a QUITTER you miss some things so I can't say for sure.

But that's a stupid fucking rule. Especially as we head into 17 where there's likely new areas that need adjusting or they'll be exploited.

Also put me in the camp that's tired of hearing the "if you don't like it, you run it" line. It's especially tiresome because every time it's said, one or two people offer to help out.

I have no desire for the O's to get supplanted - it's certainly a thankless gig and you'll do a great job. But quit holding it over our heads. Others have offered to help out to give you a break/let you retire.

Why u think I bought 17 early? Get your red pens ready bitches...
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I mean this system worked for like 20 seasons, we have some more serious guys in here now that want to get real legislative and that is completely fine. But this is how we ran this exact problem for a long time so to go back and hit doh on it is unfair IMO. He made the mistake a lot of us have made and went about it the way it had been handled previously. If you want to change the system, change it.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
It isnt correctable


Nothing is 100% correctable, but I don't see why you can't void the contract and put Bish on the FA market. That is not hard, and that is a good correction. How is that unfair to anyone either, including Doh? It's not like Lloyd got a good player in return, this was a salary dumping move, and some picks were thrown in. Picks can be corrected, and Bish can be put on the FA market. Doh got his services for the year, and now he can bid on Bish like everyone else. Actually, I bet there are few situations so cantankerous with as easy a solution.
 

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
Nothing is 100% correctable, but I don't see why you can't void the contract and put Bish on the FA market. That is not hard, and that is a good correction. How is that unfair to anyone either, including Doh? It's not like Lloyd got a good player in return, this was a salary dumping move, and some picks were thrown in. Picks can be corrected, and Bish can be put on the FA market. Doh got his services for the year, and now he can bid on Bish like everyone else. Actually, I bet there are few situations so cantankerous with as easy a solution.

Oh g-d, if Bish hits FA he's going to end up getting $100M AAV. MAKE IT HAPPEN OS!!!!
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
Nothing is 100% correctable, but I don't see why you can't void the contract and put Bish on the FA market. That is not hard, and that is a good correction. How is that unfair to anyone either, including Doh? It's not like Lloyd got a good player in return, this was a salary dumping move, and some picks were thrown in. Picks can be corrected, and Bish can be put on the FA market. Doh got his services for the year, and now he can bid on Bish like everyone else. Actually, I bet there are few situations so cantankerous with as easy a solution.
No one said it was hard, but it's not the right solution or a good correction.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
People are still taking about this? :laughing:

Glad to see Travis still SHOOK too... looks like my plan is going perfectly.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Nothing is 100% correctable, but I don't see why you can't void the contract and put Bish on the FA market. That is not hard, and that is a good correction. How is that unfair to anyone either, including Doh? It's not like Lloyd got a good player in return, this was a salary dumping move, and some picks were thrown in. Picks can be corrected, and Bish can be put on the FA market. Doh got his services for the year, and now he can bid on Bish like everyone else. Actually, I bet there are few situations so cantankerous with as easy a solution.

Because we did it one way for 20 seasons and doh went with the way we've always done it. Very easy concept wooly, I know you can handle this. There was no rule on this, we've always had a gentleman's agreement that if you messed up you made it right, he did that.

The worst part about all of this is you guys aren't even making a rule and then applying it back through time, you're just saying "hey void that". This is really the sloppiest one of these I've seen and we went through a lot of messy ones through our time.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
Also I suggested this rule earlier instead of retroactively punishing doh

Also, I think moving forward, we should have a rule in place for double trading picks

1) you give up the same pick in the next year to the person you made the deal with

2) you sacrifice that pick in the draft two years away

Example: I double trade my 2058 second round pick to Travis and Tony, in that order. Tony gets my 2059 second rounder, and I lose my 2060 second rounder.

But there's a rule against rules so VETO
 

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
To me it seems to me you don't need a god like mind to not steal other people's picks. To me it seems to me that it's all too easy to just do whatever you want, exploit the system, and then go "lol forgot" due to this dumb house rule. Reminds me of people who would "accidentally" cheese (like when they were down 3 with a minute left in the game) in supposedly straight play NCAA games.
 

Wooly

Well-Known Member
Because we did it one way for 20 seasons and doh went with the way we've always done it. Very easy concept wooly, I know you can handle this. There was no rule on this, we've always had a gentleman's agreement that if you messed up you made it right, he did that.

The worst part about all of this is you guys aren't even making a rule and then applying it back through time, you're just saying "hey void that". This is really the sloppiest one of these I've seen and we went through a lot of messy ones through our time.

I can see your reasoning if you think it was "made right". It doesn't sound to me like it's anywhere close to made right. That is what appears to be the problem for those still bothered by it. They seem to feel it was not made right and their concerns were dismissed. You can argue that it was done a certain way for 20 years (though I am not sure it applies the same way in this case), sure. I can also put forth a what I think is a good solution without regard for precedent. Maybe the new solution is better than the 20 years solution. It seems like almost the whole league thinks the best solution is to put Bish back on FA, so maybe it's the best solution, despite how things have been done in the past.

No need to be condescending in your responses either, this is a legitimate discussion, even if you think I am off base. Funny is fine, mockery is fine, that is all par for the course here, but condescension is not fine when you are having a real discussion.
 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
Because we did it one way for 20 seasons and doh went with the way we've always done it. Very easy concept wooly, I know you can handle this. There was no rule on this, we've always had a gentleman's agreement that if you messed up you made it right, he did that.

The worst part about all of this is you guys aren't even making a rule and then applying it back through time, you're just saying "hey void that". This is really the sloppiest one of these I've seen and we went through a lot of messy ones through our time.
at least youre not being accused of just going with what i tell you to say this time around.
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
As long as it's "unanimous"
This isn't true, but I'm happy you latched onto it.

The majority of rules have been voted on, but the commissioner has had veto power or the power to add a necessary rule. OU, had the most understanding on how the league worked and the most unbiased view on how changes would affect the league. The league has functioned well for a long time. We are open to changing the rules, but obviously want to keep things fun. We just changed the Lambship to seven games without having a unanimous vote, just 2/3s or so.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
To me it seems to me you don't need a god like mind to not steal other people's picks. To me it seems to me that it's all too easy to just do whatever you want, exploit the system, and then go "lol forgot" due to this dumb house rule. Reminds me of people who would "accidentally" cheese (like when they were down 3 with a minute left in the game) in supposedly straight play NCAA games.

Yeah but nobody cares about this that much to do that. Maybe someone has a system where they do it randomly enough nobody catches it but I doubt we have anyone that pathetic on here, we're a few tiers above that on the pathetic scale.
 

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
Yeah but nobody cares about this that much to do that. Maybe someone has a system where they do it randomly enough nobody catches it but I doubt we have anyone that pathetic on here, we're a few tiers above that on the pathetic scale.

Yeah, like whenever you're feeling lazy and/or tempted. The NCAA cheese example applies quite literally (@Brick) here, because it wasn't long ago that Doh was doing that in NCAA online games, lol.

Man, I wonder how that works now that everyone can just record every game they play. Bet the 3rd down, 1 minute to go, 4 verticals QB scramble stuff has gone way down.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Also I suggested this rule earlier instead of retroactively punishing doh



But there's a rule against rules so VETO
First rule is dumb. Lloyd (and others before) gets way worse picks than they ended up getting.

Second rule is good but have fun whoever has to track that.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Yeah, like whenever you're feeling lazy and/or tempted. The NCAA cheese example applies quite literally (@Brick) here, because it wasn't long ago that Doh was doing that in NCAA online games, lol.

Man, I wonder how that works now that everyone can just record every game they play. Bet the 3rd down, 1 minute to go, 4 verticals QB scramble stuff has gone way down.
What are you even talking about? I barely remember playing NCAA online games but that wasn't me that. But believe what you want.

But if you have such a good memory you can remember playing NCAA online games 10 years ago... good for you?
 
Last edited:

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I mean yeah, you should keep track of your picks but I don't. I just don't care honestly so I give a second sometimes. Maybe I have it or maybe I already traded it, let the wheel spin and see where it lands.

I'll probably get hit the most with this rule and I'd still vote for it.
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
The only person who really could game the system is @doh. Everyone else gets caught when they make mistakes. Doh is an asshole, but I don't think he was double trading picks this whole time.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
This isn't true, but I'm happy you latched onto it.

The majority of rules have been voted on, but the commissioner has had veto power or the power to add a necessary rule. OU, had the most understanding on how the league worked and the most unbiased view on how changes would affect the league. The league has functioned well for a long time. We are open to changing the rules, but obviously want to keep things fun. We just changed the Lambship to seven games without having a unanimous vote, just 2/3s or so.

The real key here is some of the rules you'll come up with are garbage.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
The only person who really could game the system is @doh. Everyone else gets caught when they make mistakes. Doh is an asshole, but I don't think he was double trading picks this whole time.
No I did the picks thread for however many years as a master plan to try and trade two extra 4ths... just got caught.
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
I think with @TonyGin&Juice managing the traded picks thread, he can sperg out on that and we will probably catch most of them before the trades are even processed. The trade just won't go through anymore if Tony says you don't got the picks.
 

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
What are you even talking about? I barely remember playing NCAA online games but that wasn't me that. But believe what you want.

But if you have such a good memory you can remember playing NCAA online games 10 years ago... good for you?

Awfully defensive for a game you don't remember or care about.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I think with @TonyGin&Juice managing the traded picks thread, he can sperg out on that and we will probably catch most of them before the trades are even processed. The trade just won't go through anymore if Tony says you don't got the picks.
My "system" I think caught all of them but who knows... I didn't update every single time a trade was made. Maybe Tony Montana OCD can keep up with everything @TonyGin&Juice

I do think there's something to just not allowing people to trade after the 2nd (or maybe it was 1st) round picks like @Bdub had originally. Just trade some shit minor leaguer instead of a 7th.
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
My "system" I think caught all of them but who knows... I didn't update every single time a trade was made. Maybe Tony Montana OCD can keep up with everything @TonyGin&Juice

I do think there's something to just not allowing people to trade after the 2nd (or maybe it was 1st) round picks like @Bdub had originally. Just trade some shit minor leaguer instead of a 7th.
I don't remember that being a rule, but maybe that's all you could process in-game. In-game trading doesn't let you trade a pick you have traded for either.

That was kind of my point though. You updated it as much as you could, but since it wasn't daily there was always a chance of trading a pick twice.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
Also the not trading past the current year (not even sure if that's a rule,but in my head you guys made it one while I was gone) is a great rule.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
It seems cray cray to me that it's easier to not allow trading (of any restrictions) instead of just keeping track of picks.

My lawd people stop being so lazy
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
It seems cray cray to me that it's easier to not allow trading (of any restrictions) instead of just keeping track of picks.

My lawd people stop being so lazy

Well in the past I've found people don't do what they say they will in this league
 

NML

Well-Known Member
This isn't true, but I'm happy you latched onto it.

The majority of rules have been voted on, but the commissioner has had veto power or the power to add a necessary rule. OU, had the most understanding on how the league worked and the most unbiased view on how changes would affect the league. The league has functioned well for a long time. We are open to changing the rules, but obviously want to keep things fun. We just changed the Lambship to seven games without having a unanimous vote, just 2/3s or so.

That's why unanimous was in quotes.

First rule is dumb. Lloyd (and others before) gets way worse picks than they ended up getting.

Second rule is good but have fun whoever has to track that.

They are the same rule. DO YOU EVEN READ, BRO
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
Also the not trading past the current year (not even sure if that's a rule,but in my head you guys made it one while I was gone) is a great rule.
I tried, but people didn't like it. I think if Tony can keep track daily, we will be ok.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
They are the same rule. DO YOU EVEN READ, BRO
I guess I meant first "part" of the rule and second "part" of the rule....

The first part of the rule results in people getting worse picks than they are how it currently works. Second part IMO makes sense/is good but first part just punishes the people who get double traded the pick in some cases.
 

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
I think with @TonyGin&Juice managing the traded picks thread, he can sperg out on that and we will probably catch most of them before the trades are even processed. The trade just won't go through anymore if Tony says you don't got the picks.

I'm setting up a "PICKS AVAILABLE" table for each team for 2057, 2058, and 2059. Like you said, if someone trades a pick they don't have I'll post about it on the Finalized Traded Thread. One thing to keep in mind is that I'm only tracking picks through the 5th round. Want to trade a 6th rounder to some SPREADSHEET WARRIOR in a salary dump? Keep track of it, draft the player for your trading partner and then post the trade or do as @doh suggests and just trade some lottery ticket minor leaguer instead. No reason for me to waste time tracking it and having one of the Os update the draft list for some guy that has no shot of making it at the WBL level.

My "system" I think caught all of them but who knows... I didn't update every single time a trade was made. Maybe Tony Montana OCD can keep up with everything @TonyGin&Juice

I do think there's something to just not allowing people to trade after the 2nd (or maybe it was 1st) round picks like @Bdub had originally. Just trade some shit minor leaguer instead of a 7th.

Since I'm running the Trade Picks show now I'm not tracking anything past the 5th round. Like I said above if you want to trade for shitass 6th rounder just work out a PTBNL with your trading partner and have them draft the player and then have them trade them to you. If that sounds like too much work for you that should tell you worthless these picks are so don't whine.
 

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I tried, but people didn't like it. I think if Tony can keep track daily, we will be ok.

What was the issue with the Campbell deal then? I thought I got yelled at for including future picks. Either way that part has nothing to do with keeping track, it's more to do if someone quits the new owner isn't saddled with a group of years with no picks
 

NML

Well-Known Member
I'd also be okay if we added a third punishment

i.e you give them the same pick in the next year PLUS the ur next pick in that same draft PLUS give up the same pick in two years.
 

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
I'd also be okay if we added a third punishment

i.e you give them the same pick in the next year PLUS the ur next pick in that same draft PLUS give up the same pick in two years.

Fuck that shit. If you trade a pick that you don't have the trade doesn't happen, end of story. No need for all of this horseshit to dock people draft picks when the drafts are always 5-10 ok-to-great players and then a lot of crap.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
UGH UR ALL THE WORST

I'm definitely going to continue trading future picks in late rounds whenever da fuck I vant



People give those things zero value so I load up on them. If one of them hits, it's worth it.
 

TonyGin&Juice

Sucking off Lawn Guy Land hobos.
UGH UR ALL THE WORST

I'm definitely going to continue trading future picks in late rounds whenever da fuck I vant



People give those things zero value so I load up on them. If one of them hits, it's worth it.


Good for you, work it out with your trading partner because I'm not wasting my time or the time of others tracking those bums.
 

Schauwn

Well-Known Member
UGH UR ALL THE WORST

I'm definitely going to continue trading future picks in late rounds whenever da fuck I vant



People give those things zero value so I load up on them. If one of them hits, it's worth it.


I'll give you all of my 12th round picks, forever, for your next 5 1sts
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
What was the issue with the Campbell deal then? I thought I got yelled at for including future picks. Either way that part has nothing to do with keeping track, it's more to do if someone quits the new owner isn't saddled with a group of years with no picks
I outlawed future cash
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
I'd also be okay if we added a third punishment

i.e you give them the same pick in the next year PLUS the ur next pick in that same draft PLUS give up the same pick in two years.
Let's see how proactive Tony is with updating and informing. If it still happens we can revisit this. I don't think it will happen much anymore.
 
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OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
I love the wrath these fools have wrought upon themselves. Doh quietly did his pick bidding. Not every day or week but kept it current enough. They ousted him and now Tony the FUCKSHITTER is ready to rock and roll.
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
Good for you, work it out with your trading partner because I'm not wasting my time or the time of others tracking those bums.
The problem is we need to track all picks that are traded. So if you won't go past round five we need to limit trades there. We rely on the list each year when we, Lloyd, corrects the draft.
 
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