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Bammer trying to kill UAB?

ajw18

Bammer

42f4e57b065a73ac739fbc942db4c1d0.jpg

How does this man continue as president of the university when half the students want his head?
 

fried rice

Who wants to sex Mutombo?
To be fair, intercollegiate football participation is like #97 on the priority list for how well an administration is running the university. For example, if a net athletics loss university like UAB (and 400 other schools) has to cut one degree program to continue to fund one particular sport (and its Title IX counterparts), that's kind of a farce.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
To be fair, intercollegiate football participation is like #97 on the priority list for how well an administration is running the university. For example, if a net athletics loss university like UAB (and 400 other schools) has to cut one degree program to continue to fund one particular sport (and its Title IX counterparts), that's kind of a farce.

I think everyone agrees with you there, but what I haven't been able to determine is if UAB football is profitable. At most all FBS schools, football makes money, and the Athletic Dept loses money on everything else except basketball at some big schools or some other random sports with strong support (hockey at a few schools, etc.).

Obviously if FB is profitable, especially if it also makes enough to offset the Title IX sports that it requires, then this is a ridiculous decision. And I have a feeling that's the reality, and this is not really a financial decision but rather a political decision.
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
I think everyone agrees with you there, but what I haven't been able to determine is if UAB football is profitable. At most all FBS schools, football makes money, and the Athletic Dept loses money on everything else except basketball at some big schools or some other random sports with strong support (hockey at a few schools, etc.).

Obviously if FB is profitable, especially if it also makes enough to offset the Title IX sports that it requires, then this is a ridiculous decision. And I have a feeling that's the reality, and this is not really a financial decision but rather a political decision.

In 2013 ~$18 million went to the UAB program from student fees and university funding. Out of total revenues of $28 million, 65% came from those sources, and only $1m from ticket sales. From 2005 - 2013, $93 million came directly from the school, with less than $10 million coming from tickets.

I believe of something like 50% of the operating revenue at MAC schools comes from student fees.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Well that's not a good looking number. But you'd have to assign FB 95% of the TV revenue and figure out what percentage of donations are tied to ticket sales or people who only attend football games. But based on that low of ticket sale revenues, then that number may still be ugly for UAB.
 

ajw18

Bammer
To be fair, intercollegiate football participation is like #97 on the priority list for how well an administration is running the university. For example, if a net athletics loss university like UAB (and 400 other schools) has to cut one degree program to continue to fund one particular sport (and its Title IX counterparts), that's kind of a farce.
I agree completely. However, this situation is ostensibly all about properly allocating money inside the athletics program and not about returning the money budgeted for football back into any academic or research programs.

I'm an alumnus that's lived around Birmingham my entire life but I don't have any INSIDE SOURCES or purport to have any special insight. I only hear what's reported just like everyone else but I pay a good deal of attention to it. I believe football was a net gain for the university and the city of Birmingham. Ray Watts might well be right and this might well be in the best interest of the university (or at least he might really believe that it is) but the whole situation stinks to high heavens. He tells the players it's a numbers game then tells the media it's about priorities and not finances. Then there's all the BOT/BRYANT/BARTOW stuff. The report itself seems as if it began with a conclusion and worked backward toward the justification. We want to close football, put together some numbers that make support that decision. It didn't leak until a group tried to give the program money and the administration didn't seem interested. wtf? So they then start connecting dots. Had the reports of the study not leaked would this have been a blind side announcement yesterday or would they have simply folded up the tents at midnight like the Baltimore Colts? Had there been a fundraising ultimatum could the goal have been met?

I didn't realize how emotionally invested I was in this until yesterday. I feel a profound sense of loss. More than I think I should. trog city up in here I suppose. I didn't even go to many games (though a stadium might have changed that for me and many others) but I'd say I'm a hard core Bama fan and I don't go to their games either. Besides, I'd much rather fish or something until game time and watch it on tv and TV revenue replaced ticket sales in the financial model of cfb long ago. I'm not even excited about Bama football at the moment and I normally follow the Tide much closer than UAB (like I said, trog city.) Perhaps it's for the best. Just last season I advocated for either giving football what it needed (preferable) or killing it humanely rather than starving it. That was when I believed that UAB couldn't compete with what they have. This season changed my mind and the future looked bright. I believe the staff was building something. It's a hell of a time to finally pull the plug. Maybe it had to be killed before it grew too big. hmmmmmmm

It's a damn shame for the players, coaches, band, cheerleaders, undergrads, etc. Will the students get a rebate on their fees?

I can't imagine anything else Ray Watts does eclipsing this decision. Whether right or wrong, this is his legacy. I don't suppose a university president has to be loved to do their job. I'd guess most student bodies or apathetic or slightly antagonistic toward their administration, but the vitriol toward Watts is exceptional and I don't see it subsiding soon. He's relatively new to the job and doesn't have a track record to judge. I don't know how much public opinion means to a university president but unless the school and the remaining athletic programs make tremendous progress in a short amount of time he'll be be the villain and this will be what he's known for. For his sake, basketball better land in a good conference and they sure as hell better win. Watts said he intends to keep UAB in CUSA. I don't see how the how that happens and the CUSA commissioner has said as much. He's as disappointed as anyone it seems.

I've got more but I've rambled on enough.

ray-watts-albatross-a62a9982f0050c0a.jpg
 

jobob 5.0

I Am Reborn
If UAB had as many people going to the football games as they do going to rallies to save the program, they might have been fiscally viable.

Every dollar that went to UAB's program was a dollar that didn't go towards Roll Tide. Therefore, fuck UAB. Stick to producing quality doctors and having academic standards... leave the football to the folks in Tuscaloosa. Also, Legion Field is a shithole facility in the middle of the ghetto, and the last time I was there somebody stole my car antenna, even though the towel-waving gentleman who only charged me $35 to park on "his curb" promised me he'd "keep an eye on it." Honestly, who steals a fucking antenna?
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
If UAB had as many people going to the football games as they do going to rallies to save the program, they might have been fiscally viable.

Every dollar that went to UAB's program was a dollar that didn't go towards Roll Tide. Therefore, fuck UAB. Stick to producing quality doctors and having academic standards... leave the football to the folks in Tuscaloosa. Also, Legion Field is a shithole facility in the middle of the ghetto, and the last time I was there somebody stole my car antenna, even though the towel-waving gentleman who only charged me $35 to park on "his curb" promised me he'd "keep an eye on it." Honestly, who steals a fucking antenna?

:onlyinthesouth:
 

bighuskermav

Well-Known Member
Mod Alumni
If UAB had as many people going to the football games as they do going to rallies to save the program, they might have been fiscally viable.

Every dollar that went to UAB's program was a dollar that didn't go towards Roll Tide. Therefore, fuck UAB. Stick to producing quality doctors and having academic standards... leave the football to the folks in Tuscaloosa. Also, Legion Field is a shithole facility in the middle of the ghetto, and the last time I was there somebody stole my car antenna, even though the towel-waving gentleman who only charged me $35 to park on "his curb" promised me he'd "keep an eye on it." Honestly, who steals a fucking antenna?

Was this the time you got a handy from the LSU fan with beeds?
 

Renegade

Charge on!
If UAB had as many people going to the football games as they do going to rallies to save the program, they might have been fiscally viable.

Every dollar that went to UAB's program was a dollar that didn't go towards Roll Tide. Therefore, fuck UAB. Stick to producing quality doctors and having academic standards... leave the football to the folks in Tuscaloosa. Also, Legion Field is a shithole facility in the middle of the ghetto, and the last time I was there somebody stole my car antenna, even though the towel-waving gentleman who only charged me $35 to park on "his curb" promised me he'd "keep an eye on it." Honestly, who steals a fucking antenna?

Except UAB was going to build an on-campus stadium that would have been a good fit for them. It really kills the atmosphere to be playing in a cavernous stadium with smaller crowds, and that discourages people from coming back because the crowd never has the energy it does in a filled stadium (small or large). It's obvious the BOT did not have UAB's best interests at heart when they vetoed the on-campus stadium. Having seen the success of an OCS with my own school, I know what UAB could have achieved with it.
 

BasinBictory

OUT with the GOUT
UAB football is still alive...

...in my dynasties, of course.
@Hachiko

One of my all-time favorite dynasties in NCAA04 was my Long Beach State 49ers dynasty. Since you could create up to 8 teams (actually, I think it may have even been twelve, but I only made eight because I substituted all the teams in the Sun Belt), the other teams I created were also ones in the local area which had once upon a time had football teams, but didn't any longer. Some of the other teams I made were Cal State Fullerton Titans, Dominguez Hills Dons, Cal State LA Golden Eagles, Cal state Northridge Matadors, UC Irvine Anteaters, Pacific Tigers, and "California A&M" which I based in Bakersfield. :laughing:
 

jobob 5.0

I Am Reborn
Bama stacked the deck against them and when they failed it was "knew you couldn't do it" time
They should've just started up as a Div III program. I don't know why they went D1A right off the bat... it was never going to work. Well, maybe you're right and that's why they did it.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
They should've just started up as a Div III program. I don't know why they went D1A right off the bat... it was never going to work. Well, maybe you're right and that's why they did it.

They did start as a D-3 program for 2 years, then went to 1-AA for 2 years. They made that change when the NCAA required everyone to start playing every sport in the same division (some sports were grandfathered, but not FB or BB). There's plenty of quick to 1-A startups, and many have done fine. But none of them have had another university constantly undermining their attempts. UAB could have had a good program but for Bammer always undercutting them.

Seriously, Bammer caused UAB to fail with the two vetoed coaching hires and the stadium, then assholes like you turn around and blame UAB and say "we told you so." Where do you get off?
 

jobob 5.0

I Am Reborn
They did start as a D-3 program for 2 years, then went to 1-AA for 2 years. They made that change when the NCAA required everyone to start playing every sport in the same division (some sports were grandfathered, but not FB or BB). There's plenty of quick to 1-A startups, and many have done fine. But none of them have had another university constantly undermining their attempts. UAB could have had a good program but for Bammer always undercutting them.

Seriously, Bammer caused UAB to fail with the two vetoed coaching hires and the stadium, then assholes like you turn around and blame UAB and say "we told you so." Where do you get off?
Why does the University of Alabama system, with 3 programs within a hundred miles of each other, need 3 D1A programs? Especially when two of them will NEVER be viable programs. I'm a taxpayer in the state, and I also give money to the UA system. And I don't think money from either of those sources is well spent propping up a UAB or UAH football program. This ain't intramurals, brother.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Why does the University of Alabama system, with 3 programs within a hundred miles of each other, need 3 D1A programs? Especially when two of them will NEVER be viable programs. I'm a taxpayer in the state, and I also give money to the UA system. And I don't think money from either of those sources is well spent propping up a UAB or UAH football program. This ain't intramurals, brother.

See this is just about the University of Alabama system. Bammer is pissed that UAB is seen as the better university, so you undercut them on whatever, and try to act like the System is one university...that everyone associated with the System must be a Bammer supporter or else. I was just being hyperbolic in an early post in this thread when I said this was about every dollar being spent on UAB football is a dollar not being spent on paying off Nick Saban's house. I had no clue I was so close to the truth.

I don't see you bitching about Troy or South Alabama or Jacksonville State or Alabama State or Alabama A&M or the whole swath of D-2 programs in the state. UAB could have been a self-supporting program if it wasn't fucked over every time they tried to improve. Attendance was up significantly this year with a new HC who was improving the team. I can only imagine where attendance would have been if Jimbo Fisher had come in and won 9-10 games a few times. And then top that off with an on-campus stadium to promote a great atmosphere and not the dump Bammer left at Legion Field.

The best thing that could happen is for this bill in the legislature to pass and make UAB into the University of Birmingham with its own BOT. Let Bammer worry about Bammer and let UAB worry about UAB.

Seriously, this is so fucking bush league by Bammer. I don't see UT-Austin trying to shut down UTEP's program or forbidding UTSA from having a program. Because UT-Austin isn't so insecure as to expect everyone to be a supporter of their athletics, even though it's all the University of Texas System. I don't really get why a program with 354 national titles is insecure about a CUSA program.
 

jobob 5.0

I Am Reborn
I was just being hyperbolic in an early post in this thread when I said this was about every dollar being spent on UAB football is a dollar not being spent on paying off Nick Saban's house. I had no clue I was so close to the truth.

Every dollar that went to UAB's program was a dollar that didn't go towards Roll Tide. Therefore, fuck UAB.

Haha, I don't know why you thought you were being hyperbolic... I said almost exact same thing :laughing:

Seriously, this is so fucking bush league by Bammer. I don't see UT-Austin trying to shut down UTEP's program or forbidding UTSA from having a program. Because UT-Austin isn't so insecure as to expect everyone to be a supporter of their athletics, even though it's all the University of Texas System. I don't really get why a program with 354 national titles is insecure about a CUSA program.

The same UT-Austin that Bammer beat to claim the 337th of those 354 National titles? Maybe if they had their priorities straight they could've won. And boom goes the dynamite.
 

ZeekLTK

Well-Known Member
UAB won't separate. It's not worth the trouble even though they are the only thing keeping The state from being Mississippi.

They should though. If you aren't going to get the proper resources/support from the people who are supposed to be your leaders, then the only choice you really have is to separate yourself from them and go it alone.


They did start as a D-3 program for 2 years, then went to 1-AA for 2 years. They made that change when the NCAA required everyone to start playing every sport in the same division (some sports were grandfathered, but not FB or BB). There's plenty of quick to 1-A startups, and many have done fine. But none of them have had another university constantly undermining their attempts. UAB could have had a good program but for Bammer always undercutting them.

Seriously, Bammer caused UAB to fail with the two vetoed coaching hires and the stadium, then assholes like you turn around and blame UAB and say "we told you so." Where do you get off?

Maybe not recently, but that was basically all Michigan State had to put up with for the first ~100 years of existence - University of Michigan trying to prevent us from growing at literally every single turn. They even tried to block us from changing our name to "Michigan State". lol If we were in the same "university system" I can only imagine... we'd probably be just as bad off as UM-Flint. And that's a pretty shitty situation they have up there. UofM is so insecure about themselves that they don't even allow UM-Flint or UM-Dearborn to have ANY varsity sports teams.
 

jobob 5.0

I Am Reborn
They should though. If you aren't going to get the proper resources/support from the people who are supposed to be your leaders, then the only choice you really have is to separate yourself from them and go it alone.
Riiiight. Cause UAB exists for football. Fuck the medical school, research hospitals, etc... Separate because of football.


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Renegade

Charge on!
Dunno, Renegade was saying it's a new NCAA rule or something that all the sports had to be in the same division.


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That rule came into existence back in the 90s that a school had to play all sports in the same division. It's why Georgetown is playing 1-AA non-scholly football instead of D-3. And it's why UAB had to move up to D-1. Admittedly they could have stuck at 1-AA, but they couldn't stay in D-3. It's also why the new startups like South Florida, South Alabama, Charlotte, etc. all started in 1-AA off the bat.
 

jobob 5.0

I Am Reborn
That rule came into existence back in the 90s that a school had to play all sports in the same division. It's why Georgetown is playing 1-AA non-scholly football instead of D-3. And it's why UAB had to move up to D-1. Admittedly they could have stuck at 1-AA, but they couldn't stay in D-3. It's also why the new startups like South Florida, South Alabama, Charlotte, etc. all started in 1-AA off the bat.
Yeah, seems like a dumb rule.


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goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
Hopkins is D1 in Lacrosse and D3 in all other sports.

Hopkins also got grandfathered in because they were playing D1 lax and D3 everything else since day 1. Same with a bunch ice hockey schools (Ferris St, Lake Superior St, UM-Duluth).
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
Word. Was curious about the hockey school also. Couldn't find anything on the rule but was trying to research from my phone.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Word. Was curious about the hockey school also. Couldn't find anything on the rule but was trying to research from my phone.

There's a couple of soccer schools and other sports. Dallas Baptist that makes the tourney a lot in baseball is an example. Basically you were allowed to be grandfathered, but if you drop down, you can't come back up in just one sport. The exceptions were FB and men's basketball, where no grandfathering was allowed, and the grandfathering only applied up (i.e., school is D-3 and plays D-1 ice hockey), not school is D-1 and plays D-3/D-2 anything, like Georgetown did playing D-3 football.
 
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Wooly

Well-Known Member
I thought the rule is you are allowed to play in a different division in one sport, which is why John Hopkins plays lacrosse at the top level.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
I thought the rule is you are allowed to play in a different division in one sport, which is why John Hopkins plays lacrosse at the top level.

Well, there was a grandfathering of schools like Hopkins that were up. Looks like you might still be able to move one sport up. Here's what Wiki says:

In the early 21st century, a controversy arose in the NCAA over whether schools will continue to be allowed to have one showcased program in Division I with the remainder of the athletic program in a lower division, as is the case of, notably, Johns Hopkins University lacrosse as well as Colorado College and University of Alabama in Huntsville in ice hockey. This is an especially important issue in hockey, which has no Division II national championship and has several schools whose other athletic programs compete in Division II and Division III.
This controversy was resolved at the 2004 NCAA Convention in Nashville, Tennessee when the members supported Proposal 65-1, the amended legislation co-sponsored by Colorado College, Clarkson University, Hartwick College, the Johns Hopkins University,Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Rutgers University-Newark, St. Lawrence University, and SUNY Oneonta.[sup][65][/sup][sup][66][/sup] Each school affected by this debate is allowed to grant financial aid to student-athletes who compete in Division I programs in one men's sport and one women's sport. It is still permitted for other schools to place one men's and one women's sport in Division I going forward, but they cannot offer scholarships without bringing the whole program into compliance with Division I rules. In addition, schools in Divisions II and III are allowed to "play up" in any sport that does not have a championship for the school's own division, but only Division II programs and any Division III programs covered by the exemption can offer scholarships in those sports.
The Division I programs at each of the eight "waiver schools" which were grandfathered with the passing of Proposal 65-1 were:

At any rate, FB is excluded from that, so UAB had to move up to Division 1 in FB.
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
Union College about 10 miles from RPI got fucked in that deal. Both schools play in the same D1 conference for hockey but RPI can offer schollys but Union can't. It makes Union's title run, last year, more amazing with all those student-athletes on "academic" scholarships.
 

ajw18

Bammer
NCAA rules aside, UAB had to have D1 football to stay in Conference USA for basketball. Thank God they changed that bylaw and scuttling football will enhance other programs and won't lead to Blazer athletics losing its conference affiliation. Wait....
 

Renegade

Charge on!
NCAA rules aside, UAB had to have D1 football to stay in Conference USA for basketball. Thank God they changed that bylaw and scuttling football won't lead to Blazer basketball being homeless. Wait....

Well the upside is that they'll dominate the Atlantic Sun and make the tourney every year. Maybe it'll help turn them into the Gonzaga of the South.
 
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