2019 MLB Thread

[ZackMills]

If you can be 100% sure that a pitcher throws at a batter's head to hurt him, I'm fine with a lengthy suspension. I'm not sure how you can prove that and then you open up a can of worms where pitchers are afraid to throw inside.

I think you'll find that a lot of intentional bean balls aren't intentionally thrown at the dome and their purpose isn't to injure.

 

[DeadMan]

SRS no troll question. Why doesn't intentionally throwing a fastball at someone's head carry the same punishment? If you take some in-game disagreement to a physically dangerous level, that goes beyond "strategy" to me and is absurd, and that player should be punished with a long suspension (and an assault charge if the ball hits they player and causes damage).

For what it's worth, I agree with you on this. Baseball's unwritten rules are stupid. Throwing at people intentionally is dumb, full stop. Throwing inside is a legitimate baseball strategy. Intentionally throwing at someone is not. Baseball purists can fuck off. Travis is actually right on this - someone is going to get badly hurt getting thrown at. Or, a batter is going to hurt a pitcher after charging the mound. And, honestly, I'd have no problem if a batter charges the mound and beats the shit out of a pitcher. Beating him with the bat I wouldn't be okay with, though.

How are you going to determine intent?

God, this is so dumb. You determine intent like you do with everything else in the world, through inferences. Our entire criminal justice system requires juries to do just that, but somehow we can't apply it to baseball? Especially since we're talking about something after the fact, with, you know, video replays.

 

[Travis7401]

I am for both.

Yeah, that's really my only point, I'm just hamming it up for effect... If someone intentionally throws a ball at my head, I should be able to intentionally swing my bat at his head and face the same consequences. Ideally those consequences would be severe in each case.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I think everyone should be free to bat flip without having the next pitch be a fastball aimed at their dome.

This happens basically never.

It's also never 100% obvious. They're throwing a ball 100 mph with a sweaty hand. A one inch difference in release point means decapitation instead of bat flip.

You're soft. This sport used to be played without helmets and catchers' gear.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

God, this is so dumb. You determine intent like you do with everything else in the world, through inferences. Our entire criminal justice system requires juries to do just that, but somehow we can't apply it to baseball? Especially since we're talking about something after the fact, with, you know, video replays.

You are going to determine intent with instant replay? Yeah, let's look for intensity in his eyes and a nostril flare.

 

[Travis7401]

Well don't hit someone in the head and your intent won't be called into question. rigger pitchers with their 65+ control never have this problem.

 

[DeadMan]

Never 100% obvious. What about when a pitcher throws behind a guy twice? Or what if Rangers hit Bautista when they play next? Or when Ventura hits anyone? I'd say those are pretty obvious.

I will admit that you'd probably have to be over inclusive at first in suspensions for intentionally throwing at someone, but it would fix itself quickly.

 

[DeadMan]

You are going to determine intent with instant replay? Yeah, let's look for intensity in his eyes and a nostril flare.

Yeah, the pitchers reaction certainly says nothing about it. Again, if you think it's IMPOSSIBLE to determine someone's intent, then you need to get yourself in the crimes thread and start talking about it. I'm being somewhat hyperbolic, but our entire criminal justice system is based on determining a person's intent. We do this all the time. It's certainly not hard to extend intent to freaking baseball. Especially when the evidence will be exponentially better in these reviews than virtually any criminal case.

 

[Yankee151]

Rad vs Travis the new clash of titans on this board

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

 

[Travis7401]

Wasn't that one Kansas Shitty Shithead pitcher at the center of like 3/4s of all the brawls? I don't watch a lot of baseball, but I kept seeing that stuff on Deadspin and this same dude was VERY intentionally beaning people, lol. Dude deserves to catch a bat between the eyes. @Plotty the Plug probably loves him, GOD DAMN I HATE NEBRASKA AND THE ROYALS ARE BASICALLY NEBRASKA.

 

[ZackMills]

Well don't hit someone in the head and your intent won't be called into question. rigger pitchers with their 65+ control never have this problem.

During the fall season of my freshman year of college we were doing this drill where a pitcher would run out to the mound, throw a ball to the catcher and the corch would hit a ball to a position player. A runner was near the corch at home plate and would run at the crack of the bat.

So I jog out there, take the rubber and I notice the corch is not only in the batter's box, but pretty close to the plate. I start my motion and all that is running through my head is "Don't hit him, don't hit him." I let the ball go and it ends up way outside. Not laughably outside, but outside enough that the catcher doesn't catch it clean. No problem, didn't hit the corch, I run off the field to the back of the line.

I run out for my second turn and I swear, this corch is closer to the plate. I start my motion and all that is running through my head again is, "Don't hit him, don't hit him." As soon as I let go, I know I'm in trouble. I see the catcher start to raise his glove high and the next thing I hear is



and I see the corch flat on his back. Everyone starts busting out laughing and I go to run off the field since I'm just a freshman. I don't know the protocol for brushing back the corch. He yells, "What are you doing, get back out there!" So I go back out, think, "Don't hit him" and finally throw a strike. Next thing I do is yell



as I try to get a glove on a hard hit comebacker.

 

[DeadMan]

During the fall season of my freshman year of college we were doing this drill where a pitcher would run out to the mound, throw a ball to the catcher and the corch would hit a ball to a position player. A runner was near the corch at home plate and would run at the crack of the bat.

So I jog out there, take the rubber and I notice the corch is not only in the batter's box, but pretty close to the plate. I start my motion and all that is running through my head is "Don't hit him, don't hit him." I let the ball go and it ends up way outside. Not laughably outside, but outside enough that the catcher doesn't catch it clean. No problem, didn't hit the corch, I run off the field to the back of the line.

I run out for my second turn and I swear, this corch is closer to the plate. I start my motion and all that is running through my head again is, "Don't hit him, don't hit him." As soon as I let go, I know I'm in trouble. I see the catcher start to raise his glove high and the next thing I hear is



and I see the corch flat on his back. Everyone starts busting out laughing and I go to run off the field since I'm just a freshman. I don't know the protocol for brushing back the corch. He yells, "What are you doing, get back out there!" So I go back out, think, "Don't hit him" and finally throw a strike. Next thing I do is yell



as I try to get a glove on a hard hit comebacker.

 

[Travis7401]

I just watched a bunch of Youtube vidyas and extended highlights and I can confirm that someone should hit this KC dude in the face with a bat, he starts so much shit, lol.

 

[ZackMills]

That experience is the sole reason I'm against enforcing bean balls. When you know there are negative repercussions for throwing inside, it fucks with your head.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I asked a question about how you determine intent and you called it DUMB. I don't care about your lawyer threads. I don't think it is impossible to determine intent, but it's pretty darn hard to do when it comes to pitchers.

I don't think you appreciate how minimal the difference is between throwing a "legitimate strategy" brushback pitch and hitting a guy.

Since you brought up Bautista, he is going to get plunked a lot, not always on purpose. He CRUSHES inside low pitches

But you need something inside to set up that low and out pitch. So you're going to want to go up and in and maybe slightly out of the strike zone, even/especially after he hits a home run.

Going up and in isn't really easy as you're already altering your release point pretty significantly. It's not the easiest pitch because if you miss the release slightly this happens

Dudes like Bautista are going to get hit more because they are good. Sometimes it will happen after he chucks the bat but not always because he chucks the bat. Two of his colder zones are hard pitches to throw and hard to alternate between because of different arm slots.


Anyway, if you really want to stop headhunting, make the pitchers bat.

 

[Travis7401]

Make the pitchers children bat.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

.

I hated these mindscrews as a pitcher. It's really easy to get the Chuck Knoblauch yips if you start thinking about it.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

That experience is the sole reason I'm against enforcing bean balls. When you know there are negative repercussions for throwing inside, it fucks with your head.

Yeah. Threaten headcase pitchers with half year suspensions and watch all the pitchers get the Yips and more batters die.

 

[Travis7401]

Don't even threaten them, just suspend that one mongoloid for a season and I'll be happy.

To me both the .gifs you posted are clearly non intentional because the pitcher is MORTIFIED after throwing it.

That cock for KC throws his pitch and he's strutting toward the batter talking shit before it even lands

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I refuse to defend Ventura.

 

[Travis7401]

I will say the most humorous part about baseball bench clearing is that the bullpens for both teams jog in next to each other, lol. Why not just conserve energy and agree to fight bullpen to bullpen if that's the way things go?

 

[Travis7401]

I refuse to defend Ventura.

I refuse to learn his name.

 

[ZackMills]

Don't even threaten them, just suspend that one mongoloid for a season and I'll be happy.

To me both the .gifs you posted are clearly non intentional because the pitcher is MORTIFIED after throwing it.

That cock for KC throws his pitch and he's strutting toward the batter talking shit before it even lands

That Nat could just as easily been trying to hit that batter and is MORTIFIED because he missed so badly.

 

[DeadMan]

You guys are really making my argument by posting gifs that are clearly unintentional.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Don't even threaten them, just suspend that one mongoloid for a season and I'll be happy.

To me both the .gifs you posted are clearly non intentional because the pitcher is MORTIFIED after throwing it.

That cock for KC throws his pitch and he's strutting toward the batter talking shit before it even lands

You guys are really making my argument by posting gifs that are clearly unintentional.

Well, create your rules and watch pitchers go head hunting and then act HORRIFIED and MORTIFIED.

 

[Yankee151]

http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=569094983&topic_id=11061776

 

[ZackMills]

Well, create your rules and watch pitchers go head hunting and then act HORRIFIED and MORTIFIED.

Here's a nice "Aw shucks" reaction to 95mph to the ribs.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Travis just has his case of the Fridays a day early. Three day weekend? If he really cared he would have shown up with Bayes Theorem or a table.

Probability(Intent|HBP) = ______________P (HBP|Intent) * P (Intent)________________
P (HBP|Intent) * P (Intent) + P (HBP|No intent) * P (No intent)



[xtable=bcenter|border:1|cellpadding:0|cellspacing:0]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Date{/td}

{td}Plunker{/td}

{td}Plunkee{/td}

{td}Suspension{/td}

{td}Reason for HBP{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}6/11/2013{/td}

{td}George Kontos{/td}

{td}Andrew McCutchen{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4/26/2013{/td}

{td}Jonathan Sanchez{/td}

{td}Allen Craig{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Frustration{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4/9/2013{/td}

{td}Carlos Carrasco{/td}

{td}Kevin Youkilis{/td}

{td}7 games{/td}

{td}Frustration{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}8/23/2012{/td}

{td}Scott Diamond{/td}

{td}Josh Hamilton{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}5/6/2012{/td}

{td}Cole Hamels{/td}

{td}Bryce Harper{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Intimidation{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4/14/2012{/td}

{td}Jeanmar Gomez{/td}

{td}Mike Moustakas{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4/1/2012{/td}

{td}Ubaldo Jimenez{/td}

{td}Troy Tulowitzki{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Comments{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/31/2011{/td}

{td}Jered Weaver{/td}

{td}Alex Avila{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Unwritten rule*{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/29/2011{/td}

{td}Carlos Carrasco{/td}

{td}Billy Butler{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Frustration/rule*{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/8/2011{/td}

{td}Kevin Gregg{/td}

{td}David Ortiz{/td}

{td}4 games{/td}

{td}Frustration{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}6/5/2011{/td}

{td}Jason Marquis{/td}

{td}Justin Upton{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}6/5/2011{/td}

{td}Esmerling Vasquez{/td}

{td}Danny Espinosa{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4/12/2011{/td}

{td}Aneury Rodriguez{/td}

{td}Gaby Sanchez{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}9/26/2010{/td}

{td}Alfredo Simon{/td}

{td}Jose Bautista{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}9/1/2010{/td}

{td}Doug Slaten{/td}

{td}Gaby Sanchez{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}9/1/2010{/td}

{td}Chris Volstad{/td}

{td}Nyjer Morgan{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Unwritten rule**{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/21/2010{/td}

{td}Clayton Kershaw{/td}

{td}Aaron Rowand{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/17/2010{/td}

{td}Jonny Venters{/td}

{td}Prince Fielder{/td}

{td}4 games{/td}

{td}No idea{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}10/2/2009{/td}

{td}Jeremy Bonderman{/td}

{td}Delmon Young{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}8/11/2009{/td}

{td}Rick Porcello{/td}

{td}Kevin Youkilis{/td}

{td}5 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}8/5/2009{/td}

{td}Brad Thompson{/td}

{td}David Wright{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/27/2009{/td}

{td}Burke Badenhop{/td}

{td}Orlando Hudson{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}7/25/2009{/td}

{td}Winston Abreu{/td}

{td}Jack Hannahan{/td}

{td}3 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}6/4/2009{/td}

{td}A.J. Burnett{/td}

{td}Nelson Cruz{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Retribution{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}4/12/2009{/td}

{td}Josh Beckett{/td}

{td}Bobby Abreu{/td}

{td}6 games{/td}

{td}Unwritten rule***{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
*Showing up pitcher after a home run
**Stealing in a blowout
***Stepping out of the box late

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20926

 

[ZackMills]

***Stepping out of the box late

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=20926

Image searching this stuff is great.

Lots of good stuff going on here. Asian guy likely yelling in Asian language to American pitcher. Batter never even steps out of box. . Terrible ump calling time seconds after pitcher has started motion. 141km/hr pitch!

 

[Wolfman21]

How about more that Yordano Ventura is a douchewad and deserves the cracking over the head. Most pitchers are sane. That guy isnt.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Whenever Travis steps out of line I'm going to send a Yordano Ventura gif at him

 

[Orlando]

Rad and Mills sounds like the softest of soft pitchers.

Watch Bautista crush this meatball down the middle should definitely throw at his head next time.

Add paralegal deadman trying to apply criminal justice analogies and I am disappointed I ignored this thread all day.

 

[Gooksta]

i want all dem bat flips

 

[DeadMan]

Okay, no troll this time. My serious thoughts:

• I think baseball's unwritten rules are beyond idiotic, in the first place. White guys want to police the Latin players actually showing emotion. Baseball is a 3-4 hour game where there's maybe, what, 10 minutes of game action that matters. Anything to spice the game up is fine by me.
• Purposefully throwing at someone is dangerous and should be stopped. I am in full support of long (like season-long) suspensions for pitchers who do it.
• I'm also in favor of suspensions for people who bitch about playing the game the right way and incite this crap. McCann, for example, would have been suspended really fast in my ideal world.
• The defeatism about how do you figure out intent is absurd. I will completely admit that there is no fullproof way to go about figuring that out. What I think you do is set up a panel of ex-MLBers, a few outside people, who go through the video, interview the pitcher and batter, etc., etc. who decides if it was intentional or not. And then you have an appeal process.
  There is no way to make it foolproof. My personal view is that I'd rather have a pitcher suspended for a long time on a borderline case than have a guy break his face or skull on a high and inside pitch he can't get away from. Or you know, have a [link=[URL]http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/457014]star[/URL] player injured in a meaningless game.[/link] If you think that it would be too difficult to come to a decision for sure on borderline cases, fair enough. But saying it's impossible to figure out intent is wrong. And, honestly, I think you put this stuff in place and it would be an issue that comes up maybe once per season.
• Pitchers who have the yips and no control aren't going to stay in MLB long anyways. They should just stop having the yips. Sorry they're not mentally strong enough to do that.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I love the internet lawyer questioning the mental toughness of professional athletes. You would just reject it with your average internet intellect, get outta here

Pitchers who have the yips and no control aren't going to stay in MLB long anyways.

The yips don't really have anything to do with a control skillset. People like Steve Sax, Rick Ankiel, Chuck Knoblauch were all all stars mentally tough enough to play in front of tens of thousands of fans but caught the yips. Ryan Zimmerman was a gold glover who got them. Matt Garza had the yips, could pitch the ball 60'6" but couldn't flip the ball to first. All stayed in the league, either by getting over it or switching positions.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I guess Ankiel did have to switch positions to OF doe

 

[kella]

If you give up a home run to fucking Alex Avila, he better be showing you up.

 

[DeadMan]

Jesus, you glom onto to that after I give you a serious response?

Let's be clear, the yips are actually a physical thing. It is caused by your brain, sure, but it manifests itself in involuntary twitches. It is a pretty constant thing, and you essentially have to trick your mind to get out of it. Which is not possible for some people.

What you and @ZackMills were describing is not the yips. It is entirely mental. Thinking "DON'T DO THIS" over and over will make you do just the thing you don't want to do. Zack didn't have the yips in that story; he just psyched himself out to the point where he threw at his coach. If Zack was actually throwing

This is the metaphor that works for me, that touches on basically exactly what Zack was saying. You play a hole in golf, and get to the tee with trouble on the left. If you think before the tee shot "JUST DON'T GO LEFT" and then go left, you did what Zack did. It's something you have to figure if you want to be a decent golfer. If you miss 6 inch putts constantly, you have the yips. That's something you can't figure out.

Players who have the yips are already screwed. Players who can't do anything but think "DON'T HIT HIM DON'T HIT HIM" are not going to make it.

 

[kella]

As usual I will determine intent. MLB please forward video/gifs of all possible intentional bean balls to me and I will handle them swiftly and provide adjudication recommendations.

Some potential punishments

1. Spend 20 minutes IMing with Dirt
2. 5 sets of 10 reps of squats in tight jeans
3. Run 1 mile in flip flops
4. Traded to Miami

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I like how deadmong decides he's going to be serious and expect me to respond seriously. This is a chat b and it's 80 degrees outside on a Friday.

But seriously, the Diamondbacks drove me nuts with that stuff. The Royals do as well. I don't think we're far apart on intent being difficult to determine, you just seem more liberal about how/when to enforce than I would be.

 

[Wooly]

As usual I will determine intent. MLB please forward video/gifs of all possible intentional bean balls to me and I will handle them swiftly and provide adjudication recommendations.

Some potential punishments

1. Spend 20 minutes IMing with Dirt
2. 5 sets of 10 reps of squats in tight jeans
3. Run 1 mile in flip flops
4. Traded to Miami

That first one is a little harsh. That should be for 3rd time offense IMO.

 

[DeadMan]

Next time stick to exploring Uranus, or whatever it is you do, @Mr. Radpants.

 

[Yankee151]

You better watch how you talk to him like that, He's driving an FDL now, oone of the best medium-class fighter ships in the universe.

 

[Orlando]

The yips

 

[Orlando]

• I think baseball's unwritten rules are beyond idiotic, in the first place. White guys want to police the Latin players actually showing emotion. Baseball is a 3-4 hour game where there's maybe, what, 10 minutes of game action that matters. Anything to spice the game up is fine by me.

Football should take the same advice since it has essentially the same problem. 4.5 hours with 10 minutes of real action. I'll never understand why athletes aren't supposed to show emotion.

 

[ZackMills]

You better watch how you talk to him like that, He's driving an FDL now, oone of the best medium-class fighter ships in the universe.

Could you imagine the fallout if Rad caught the yips while docking?

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Travis admitted he has the yips while landing unless he drinks whiskey. Maybe we should feed these mental midget pitchers whiskey before pitching inside.

 

[Bdub]

Suspending someone for a year for intentionally throwing at someone? These guys are adults they can handle it. Baseball like most sports is inherently dangerous, but it is far less dangerous than football where guys are trying to hurt you on every play. In over a hundred years of baseball how many times has someone been seriously injured by a ball someone intentionally threw at someone?
Now pitchers who get upset about bat flips and such are stupid. You don't ever see a batter charge the mound after the pitcher celebrates a strike out.

 

[Gooksta]

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a...y-depends-three-factors-when-who-where-061615

Great article on this very subject

 

[Wolfman21]

atleast none of these guys are hittin hot chili peppers up lee jansen's ass.

Got the yips? Call Romeo