hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Why on earth anybody would buy David Luiz back after selling him for a tidy profit is baffling.
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2018-2019 Prem / Farewell Stoke Threade - who ate all the pies?
- Thread starter Yankee151
- Start date
Why on earth anybody would buy David Luiz back after selling him for a tidy profit is baffling.
Got him back and still made 10m net profit between sold price and buy back price. Not the worst deal ever.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
He makes any team he's in significantly worse....
chibob
Well-Known Member
Sarcasm?
Karl Hungus
Here to fix the cable
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
But say being generous, and giving him 10 prime years, that's two years gone at £5 million a year. So you've actually broken even on buying back a circus clown. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p046gbhc
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
It's not even that. He's been utterly shit his whole career. The only half positive news article I've seen on this is from ESPN, which says it all. And the Chelsea fans in London wholeheartedly agree : http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/31/chelsea-fans-agree-that-david-luiz-is-a-terrible-defender-6100817/
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
Isn't there some thought that Luiz might be slotted into a libero role as a 3rd center back? That would make a lot more sense than bringing him back to partner with Cahill or Terry. At least if you have two other CBs covering, Luiz's crazy won't leave them as exposed.
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Remains to be seen how Conte will deploy him.
For one, JT can't have THAT long left. So it could be a Cahill, Luiz, Zouma rotation going forward.
But for this season, he might cycle through with Matic and Kante. Or hell, put all 3 of them out there when Chelsea go to Old Trafford and the Etihad, and see if they can gang rape Ibra, Rooney, Aguero, et al.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
This is a brilliant interview. I always knew Kroenke was the rot at the top. Our transfers have been fundamentally governed by his implementation of the moneyball system. There are so many reasons why it doesn't work in soccer, but the proof is in the fact that our transfer dealings became worse (bar a couple of exceptions) since he became owner.
Kroenke is the king cunt. He's a fucking penny pincher who doesn't understand the workings of the individual sports clubs that he owns, and bleeds everything into a vision of his own mediocrity. He never created his own fortune, he married it.
Kroenke is the king cunt. He's a fucking penny pincher who doesn't understand the workings of the individual sports clubs that he owns, and bleeds everything into a vision of his own mediocrity. He never created his own fortune, he married it.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
I don't have the time to watch that, but assuming moneyball means using advanced stats to win games, none of Kroenke's other teams use it. The Avs used to actively ignore any sort of advanced stat.
If it means being cheap, then yeah, all of his teams have done that.
If it means being cheap, then yeah, all of his teams have done that.
chibob
Well-Known Member
I think it just doesnt work with football.
I mean, whats your quantifier? Doesnt concede goals? Scores goals? Lots of assists?
With moneyball (the film) they kept going on about getting on base - was that what they actually used in real life? I just cant think of something similar in football, because any tangible quality which would be desirable would instantly make a player expensive.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
I would be surprised as hell if Kroenke doesn't use statistics for his other clubs. He bought the world's largest stats company, based in Chicago called statsdna, according to Jon Smith. It's a really good interview if you get the time.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
I don't think it works at all. Oakland As never won anything. That's all you need to know.
chibob
Well-Known Member
chibob
Well-Known Member
But they did, didnt they? They won their league but lost the play offs? Also didnt they break a record for wins?
I may do a FM dynasty based on money ball and see where I get to.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Didn't win a World Series, which means they didn't win anything.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
Maybe it happened recently, but the Avs (NHL team) were openly hostile to any sort of advanced stat until very recently.
chibob
Well-Known Member
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Isnt that theyre Champions League though? If so, Arsenal havent won anything either
Well, exactly....
I don't think that's fair. It worked, but you need prolonged succes to win a championship generally. After the A's accomplished what they did with the payroll they had, other teams with more money took notice. It's tough to compete with that.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Well what is it then? Obviously you just exaggerated it, but what Arsenal do is derived from moneyball and retrofitted to soccer and it is about the application of statistics, some of which are probably "hidden". It's also a known fact that we did hire Harvard mathematicians : http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2013/06/17/arsenals-gazidis-and-his-harvard-geniuses/
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
I didn't read it. I've watched the film. Genuinely, what is I'm missing here?
Using advanced statistics for evaluation was kind of the byproduct of moneyball. You can't really be a huge club like Arsenal and be a moneyball team. Moneyball is exploiting something that's undervalued in the market to try to catch up to the clubs that can actually spend money.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
But this is exactly what Arsenal does. We're a big club that acts like a small club trying to compete with the big clubs. I suppose I should really use the term sabermetrics, but it's harder to type.
Moneyball was about willing to approach the game slightly differently due to severe budget constraints. Instead of focusing on scouting and projecting amateur players, it was about focusing more on their amateur results. For veterans, it was about finding skills the league didnt value nearly as much as other skills.
There was really very little 'analytical stats' used. It was more the main baseball stats that they tried to focus on from a slightly different angle.
Exactly what soccer stats are used to value a player besides goals, assists, ect?
There was really very little 'analytical stats' used. It was more the main baseball stats that they tried to focus on from a slightly different angle.
Exactly what soccer stats are used to value a player besides goals, assists, ect?
chibob
Well-Known Member
What do you think is the quantifier though?
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Well, fuck knows, but Arsenal are absolutely analysing the shit out of players with the largest sports stats company in the world. I read that for example they're measuring player's defensive recovery % after they've committed upfield. We're acting in exactly the same way that the As did; trying to find statistics that others are ignoring, or as you say looking at the detail in the statistic and interpreting it. Operating like we're under severe budget constraints for 10 years now.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
I don't get this at all. We are literally using Billy Bean inspired sabermetrics, according to every report, analysis of our spending available, and yet you say it's impossible to compare us to the Oakland As.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
Because the Oakland A's could spend much, much less than that.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
God damn, @hayvis, you'll just bitch about everything with Kroenke. The problem is that club is too cheap to buy the players we need. Which is probably ultimately a Kroenke issue.
But this is insane to bitch about. I would be worried if Arsenal weren't spending money trying to use stats to improve their team. I would imagine every major club is doing something like this. I guarantee that the first club that figures out meaningful advanced statistics for soccer is going to be at a huge advantage. Humans are extremely fallible when it comes to scouting. Having stats that can improve your understanding of a player is invaluable. The hard part is that the stats in soccer are not nearly advanced enough. Good for Arsenal to spending money trying to do this. Dismissing all stats out of hand is you just being a luddite.
But this is insane to bitch about. I would be worried if Arsenal weren't spending money trying to use stats to improve their team. I would imagine every major club is doing something like this. I guarantee that the first club that figures out meaningful advanced statistics for soccer is going to be at a huge advantage. Humans are extremely fallible when it comes to scouting. Having stats that can improve your understanding of a player is invaluable. The hard part is that the stats in soccer are not nearly advanced enough. Good for Arsenal to spending money trying to do this. Dismissing all stats out of hand is you just being a luddite.
hayvis
Will-Gnome Member
This is SO American.