ZackMills
Have mercy
Then why is Pettite in there? He isn't making them with them.
-
Registration is disabled due to constant spammers. Email [email protected] and we will temporarily re-enable registration for you.
2015 MLB Thread (Little things that keep you up)
- Thread starter Karl Hungus
- Start date
Then why is Pettite in there? He isn't making them with them.
Which is why he threw logic out the window.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
Pettite was a throw away. Bonds and Clemons were my two real points. Are there really that many HOF worth players that wouldn't be HOF worth without steroids? McGwire? And who else? Brady Anderson isn't on anyone's hall of fame ballot (although I guess 2 people voted for David Eckstein, so...).
The hypocrisy is the writers saying they won't vote for anybody who's done PEDs, while probably every hall of famer from the 60s onwards was on greenies.
The hypocrisy is the writers saying they won't vote for anybody who's done PEDs, while probably every hall of famer from the 60s onwards was on greenies.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Wooly
Well-Known Member
McGwire is a lock with or without PEDs. His stats are awesome, even compared to other players of the same time period, so it strips out the PED argument. He is perhaps the best power hitter, and one of the best OPS guys in history. AND on top of that, he is a right handed hitter. When you look at the list of just righty's he gets more impressive. I think only Frank Thomas compares to him on the past 30 years. Better throw in Pujols and ARod in there too, even though they are still playing.
Last edited:
Karl Hungus
Here to fix the cable
Jose Canseco should be in- 30/30, baby!
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
Great player and great author! Should be a lock
Tell you what...why don't you make this very simple for me?
This is why baseball is the freaking worst. "You can't get in the Hall because you allegedly cheated the game! But we're totally cool with you, who admitted that you cheated the game."
-YTC
- Tell me what percentage of statistics I should "discount" for the alleged PED users (knowingly breaking the rules to enhance performance)
- Tell me what percentage of statistics I should "discount" for the admitted doctorers of baseballs (knowingly breaking the rules to enhance performance)
This is why baseball is the freaking worst. "You can't get in the Hall because you allegedly cheated the game! But we're totally cool with you, who admitted that you cheated the game."
-YTC
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
HOF arguments are the worst.
Was on deadspin watching these piazza Homers. He hits some frozen rope opposite field 400 footers that are almost unbelievable. I mean Miggy can do it but probably outweighs piazza by 50 pounds, too. And doesn't play catcher.
atlbraves
Well-Known Member
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
Correction. Is a thing
I will kind of miss Revere. He always looks so happy.
Love this trade.
Storen had serious mental makeup problems. His chokes were amazingly epic. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
What if he was? Did they give McGwire an incredible OBP? When you are assessing hitters I think you look at OPS+ or wRC+. They are the gold standards of offensive production. They compare a player against his own competition every year, so you can strip out a lot of the differences between eras, like the so called "PED era". They even try to account for park and league differences too. McGwire was phenomenal even if you account for the high scoring era that he was part of. He dominated against his own era like only a handful of greats in the games history have.
Personally, I don't like comparing eras that much, even with stats that judge a player on how much he dominated his era. McGwire holds up to any era, especially his own. When considering just RHBs, he is just about the best RHB ever.
Overall Rankings in baseball history:
wRC+ = 12th all time
OPS+ = 10th all time
Right handed rankings:
wRC+ = 4th all time (2nd Best in last 50 years)
OPS+ = 3rd all time (Best in last 50 years)
How can that guy be left out of the Hall of Fame? Roids or not.
Sidenote: Sosa was actually ranked about 190th all time. Sosa played 18 seasons, and only 5-6 were elite. He had a lot of mediocre or just above average years.
jdlikewhoa
Well-Known Member
Would they have to bleach Sosa's plaque white?
Wooly
Well-Known Member
True. Of course my understanding is that corking a bat will not actually help you hit the ball further. Just like roids, baseball players have done lots of things to gain an advantage, not knowing they don't make a lot of difference.
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
lol. Yeah, strength and lighter bats won't help at all.
the answer to this question is yes. YES.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is exactly the article I was going to post. The researcher at Illinois showed that corked bats don't help the ball go any further. As for a lighter bat to swing it faster...if you want a lighter bat, just swing a lighter bat, they could opt for different density wood then. There is still no need to cork the thing. Some people actually thought the cork would increased elasticity in the collision with the ball, and therefore hit it further.
Here are all the conclusions of the article. No help in distance, unknown if it helps at all, except it's possible it gives you more time to see the ball. That is a miniscule help at best, and unnecessary either way. How much time difference, what fraction of a second can you really gain by a very slight difference in weight, and will you really be able to take advantage of it by starting your swing a fraction of a second later? Could you even get your body to do that if you wanted to? Either way, it's a specious argument, because you can get that effect just by swinging a lighter bat too, and there is probably no real gain anyway.
The point is that corking doesn't work, so players that did this cheated for no reason. I think it's similar to steroids, where I don't think there was much gain in offensive production from steroid use, but players did it anyway trying to get an edge. I think a change in the ball is a much better explanation for the "steroid era" numbers.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Nice!
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
You would get a large advantage from swinging later. Have you ever played baseball?
That's kind of the advantage of velocity. Less time to decide, have to decide before pitch recognition, etc.
That's kind of the advantage of velocity. Less time to decide, have to decide before pitch recognition, etc.
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
I can't comment about lighter bats except they might not have the plate reach a power hitter wants. I can't find exactly how light corked bats are.
I agree it's silly for a power hitter to cork a bat based on the studies, but being able to swing later is a significant advantage.
I agree it's silly for a power hitter to cork a bat based on the studies, but being able to swing later is a significant advantage.
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
Phillies blog having some fun determining which will be more productive: Ryan Howard or a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2016/1...cisions-ryan-howard-vs-4-x-8-sheet-of-plywood
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2016/1...cisions-ryan-howard-vs-4-x-8-sheet-of-plywood
Nothing beats the Leafs blog one offseason asking the question "Dave Nonis or a Potato"
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
Hands down, Potato. Not even close.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
Is the plywood corked?
Wooly
Well-Known Member
I don't think a player can really take advantage of it though, which is what I first posted. I said the gains are so minimal and they probably can't make their body adjust well enough anyway, given that you can't use corked bats for very long. They break easier, and you will get caught easier. Hitters are trained by thousands and thousands of at bats to swing a certain way. It takes time to make adjustments. I doubt you can use a corked bat log enough to adjust and utilize that minor advantage. And what is that minor advantage? From what I can see it changes the weight by about 1 oz. from an average of 33. So you I guess you can swing it about 1/33 faster, without doing a full physics workup for the moment of inertia or whatever else is affected by 1 oz less. A 95 mph ball is traveling 139 ft/sec, which means you see the ball for about .435 seconds. So .435*(1/33) = 0.0132 seconds longer to wait to swing, before you have to swing to get the bat to the ball at the same place for impact. That is also like seeing it about 1.8 feet sooner before you have to swing, or something. That doesn't seem like much, but then I have never hit a major league pitched baseball either.
It seems like it would be a lot simpler to make a permanent change to a lighter density wood to gain that same advantage, and permanently adjust your swing for it.
I honestly think players who cork bats are doing it for an imagined effect.