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OOTP20 - WBL JOINT SPECIAL 1Trog9th ANNUAL WINTER WARZ AT THE EASTERN FRONT, SOVIET UNION!!!!

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
I think OOTP just needs to revamp their international scouting discovery dmsysytem to include academies and targeting recruiting efforts more.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
No it’s a dumb argument. Scouting discoveries are random. Increased talent will benefit good teams because the drafts will be deeper. Talent in general works itself out and we shouldn’t mess with it, even though the feeder leagues suck.

You're completely logically wrong. However variable the random talent comes from scouting discoveries, it will always be proportionate to the talent that comes from feeder leagues. Even if the draft is deeper the talent is still evenly distributed. With scouting discoveries, half go to Seoul and Dublin and the rest are randomly given out.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I think OOTP just needs to revamp their international scouting discovery dmsysytem to include academies and targeting recruiting efforts more.
Targeting certain positions, attributes (power v speed, stuff v movement), L/R handed, high cieling/low floor vs. low ceiling/high floor would make it way better.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
You're completely logically wrong. However variable the random talent comes from scouting discoveries, it will always be proportionate to the talent that comes from feeder leagues. Even if the draft is deeper the talent is still evenly distributed. With scouting discoveries, half go to Seoul and Dublin and the rest are randomly given out.
Why are you so obsessed with scouting discoveries? Of the available ways to get talent (IFA, Draft, Int'l Pro FA, Indy FA), it's by far the least significant. No one seems to get GOATs from it. It's mostly just filler guys. I think I've gotten 1 good auto IFA in 30 seasons.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Why are you so obsessed with scouting discoveries? Of the available ways to get talent (IFA, Draft, Int'l Pro FA, Indy FA), it's by far the least significant. No one seems to get GOATs from it. It's mostly just filler guys. I think I've gotten 1 good auto IFA in 30 seasons.

This isn't true. Virtually all of Seoul's SP a couple of years ago (the best in the league) were scouting discoveries. The league is littered with random elite scouting discoveries. I know you haven't had many, but you should go through the league and top prospects if you really believe what you're saying as it's an eye opener. Take a look at UK's top prospects for example.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
If you'll get rid of scouting discoveries or make significant overhauls to IFA, I quit.
37 players left in IFA... how many teams even have $ left to buy players?

That's the thing we should be worried about in terms of talent development. It seems like now 15 IFA players per class just sit in this purgatory. That can't be good.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
37 players left in IFA... how many teams even have $ left to buy players?

That's the thing we should be worried about in terms of talent development. It seems like now 15 IFA players per class just sit in this purgatory. That can't be good.

This is another good reason to increase talent in the feeder leagues. Having the biggest proportion of talent coming from the fairest method of distribution (the draft) is the best thing for the game. I agree with keeping IFA and discoveries as they're fun but making the meat and potatoes more important would benefit all.

I love how you always pipe up about IFA as your massive budget has benefited the most from it and sooner is the first to threaten to quit over discoveries as he's got/had a fair few that have helped him along the way. And then everyone expects me to shut up about basically my only avenue to sustained success......

:laughing::laughing:
 

Soonerfan09

Well-Known Member
I still have over $30M with my current offers out. I've made my position on IFA known. I was fine with the original system. Now I can get one of the top prospects each season for under $6M- Héctor García and Ernesto Moreno are great examples - and still get any FA that I want. With that said, I'm fairly smart with my budget and am very picky with the players I get attached to (Gallo and Comert are probably the only two on the roster that will retire as Mules regardless of price), but I would be completely fine with going back to the old IFA system.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
This is another good reason to increase talent in the feeder leagues. Having the biggest proportion of talent coming from the fairest method of distribution (the draft) is the best thing for the game. I agree with keeping IFA and discoveries as they're fun but making the meat and potatoes more important would benefit all.

I love how you always pipe up about IFA as your massive budget has benefited the most from it and sooner is the first to threaten to quit over discoveries as he's got/had a fair few that have helped him along the way. And then everyone expects me to shut up about basically my only avenue to sustained success......

:laughing::laughing:
I have no clue what my budget has to do with my main point... it is not good for the game to just have tons of dudes sitting in some unknown IFA zone and not playing minor league games. It's going to screw up the talent pool even worse.
 

Soonerfan09

Well-Known Member
This is another good reason to increase talent in the feeder leagues. Having the biggest proportion of talent coming from the fairest method of distribution (the draft) is the best thing for the game. I agree with keeping IFA and discoveries as they're fun but making the meat and potatoes more important would benefit all.

I love how you always pipe up about IFA as your massive budget has benefited the most from it and sooner is the first to threaten to quit over discoveries as he's got/had a fair few that have helped him along the way. And then everyone expects me to shut up about basically my only avenue to sustained success......

:laughing::laughing:
I've had like three good IFA discoveries in 20+ seasons. My best ever is Vicente Medina who is only a 3.5 star and probably won't ever even compete for an MVP. I took over Moscow in 2058 with a $58M budget. I built my team through trades, smart FA signings, a couple IFAs that panned out, and decent drafts. Certainly not through discoveries. I also took advantage of inactive GMs. Being an active GM and not a complete idiot (an idiot to OOTP or baseball) is literally all it takes to be successful in this game. You have already made great strides with your team and none of it is because of the rule changes, but because you are active.
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
We could drop the IFA pool down so all the players get taken, but then the talent level will drop. Having players go into the void is a fair compromise so that every team has a chance at getting a top IFA talent rather than the big budgets scooping them all up with 60M to spend each offseason
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
If we add more talent to the feeder leagues doesn't that just mean haves are getting better players with later picks? We definitely won't be changing it so that there's a Carrier or Kasib every year.
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
If we add more talent to the feeder leagues doesn't that just mean haves are getting better players with later picks? We definitely won't be changing it so that there's a Carrier or Kasib every year.
More players means more chances for players like those. There may be some further tweaks I could try

Of course, Carrier and Kasib aren't necessarily the ideal players for a balanced league, but it's doable in theory
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
I do think the engine uses IFA discoveries to help even out overall league talent. It just seems like we get surges sometimes.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
To me, our biggest problem is that too many prospects are trog bats, to me. Nothing better than guys with 80 speed & 30 of range.
This is a giant problem too. The amount of prospects/players who can field AND hit in the league is very low.

I am curious if you got rid of DH in feeder leagues would that help? I'm not sure but the game is flush with guys who can't field.
 

jdlikewhoa

Well-Known Member
That is interesting... Nakamura had 4 290+ K years. We have no pitchers that are Kasib, Corbishly, Nakamura level and haven't in a long time.

I wonder if we are just in a down swing for pitching. The top 13 pitching by WAR years are all 2052 and before. In the last 10 seasons, we've had 1 top 50 all-time by WAR pitching season. Last year the top SP by WAR in JV were: 4.7, 4.3, 4.0, 3.8, 3.8. 10 years ago it was 5.5, 5.2, 5.1, 4.8, 4.8.

I had the GOATS of GOATS in my rotation at some point and could still never put it together. Kasib, Naka, Corbishley and Campbell .. Talk about cheat codes.

EDIT: Almost forgot @Mr. Radpants idol ... Roy Rapely
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
This is a giant problem too. The amount of prospects/players who can field AND hit in the league is very low.

I am curious if you got rid of DH in feeder leagues would that help? I'm not sure but the game is flush with guys who can't field.


Forcing them into the field could help their error ratings, but that's about it. Range only ever seems to go one way- down.

I guess the question is if turning the DH off stops DH-only guys from bring generated. Turning is off is fine by me- it's not like they can get any worse.
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
This is a giant problem too. The amount of prospects/players who can field AND hit in the league is very low.

I am curious if you got rid of DH in feeder leagues would that help? I'm not sure but the game is flush with guys who can't field.
This is a great idea, though I'm still not sure how fielding rating (not experience) development actually works, but it cant hurt

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

jdlikewhoa

Well-Known Member
Forcing them into the field could help their error ratings, but that's about it. Range only ever seems to go one way- down.

I guess the question is if turning the DH off stops DH-only guys from bring generated. Turning is off is fine by me- it's not like they can get any worse.
Turning it off overall or just in the feeder leagues?
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
This is a great idea, though I'm still not sure how fielding rating (not experience) development actually works, but it cant hurt

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I started a shortlist of interesting guys several seasons ago and noticed a couple things:

Range only goes down, but error, turn dp, and even arm can go up some. Any upward range increases I've seen have been down to scouting- OSA says 50, scout says 55 type stuff.

Random 'pops' don't happen at the feeder levels. Only in the minors. Which is weird, you'd think some guys break out late in high school or college, but this doesn't happen.
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
I started a shortlist of interesting guys several seasons ago and noticed a couple things:

Range only goes down, but error, turn dp, and even arm can go up some. Any upward range increases I've seen have been down to scouting- OSA says 50, scout says 55 type stuff.

Random 'pops' don't happen at the feeder levels. Only in the minors. Which is weird, you'd think some guys break out late in high school or college, but this doesn't happen.

So feeders are worthless except as a sperg tool
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
Depends on your deifnition of weak ratings. I use stats to differentiate between similar players. It also showns signs of progression and lets you know what level of the minors to start them out at.
 

Karl Hungus

Here to fix the cable
Depends on your deifnition of weak ratings. I use stats to differentiate between similar players. It also showns signs of progression and lets you know what level of the minors to start them out at.


I will say that someone with all yellows but horrible stats from college is a hard pass from me.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
If we add more talent to the feeder leagues doesn't that just mean haves are getting better players with later picks? We definitely won't be changing it so that there's a Carrier or Kasib every year.

The league works, so all of this is hypothesis and I'm not really that bothered. But fwiw it doesn't matter if the draft is deeper. The top of the draft will still have the better players and if you increase talent in the feeder leagues, that's upping the quality of players with the fairest method of distribution.

The league has three methods of prospect entering the league -

1 - IFA - Used to favour those with money. Cap needs changing imo as it's too fair now.
2 - Discoveries - Random
3 - The draft - Slightly favours badly performing teams but even distribution.

If you change the quantities or quality of any of the talent coming through those methods, it will affect the fairness of distribution according to those three factors.

My perspective is not about getting more GOATS in the league but getting a better balance in the way teams acquire talent. IFA and discoveries are fun but obviously need to be in proportion.

But at the end of the day the league works and I'm happy to leave as is. I do think talking about ways to improve the league makes for a better league though, and it's nice to have a record of suggestions for a time when people do want change.

Also, @doh I do think the IFA cap is too low. I think a cap is great, but at the moment it is pretty much a one prospect each which isn't enough. I would (not that anyone would listen) set it at about 20m.
 
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jdlikewhoa

Well-Known Member
The league works, so all of this is hypothesis and I'm not really that bothered. But fwiw it doesn't matter if the draft is deeper. The top of the draft will still have the better players and if you increase talent in the feeder leagues, that's upping the quality of players with the fairest method of distribution.

The league has three methods of prospect entering the league -

1 - IFA - Used to favour those with money. Cap needs changing imo as it's too fair now.
2 - Discoveries - Random
3 - The draft - Slightly favours badly performing teams but even distribution.

If you change the quantities or quality of any of the talent coming through those methods, it will affect the fairness of distribution according to those three factors.

My perspective is not about getting more GOATS in the league but getting a better balance in the way teams acquire talent. IFA and discoveries are fun but obviously need to be in proportion.

But at the end of the day the league works and I'm happy to leave as is. I do think talking about ways to improve the league makes for a better league though, and it's nice to have a record of suggestions for a time when people do want change.

Also, @doh I do think the IFA cap is too low. I think a cap is great, but at the moment it is pretty much a one prospect each which isn't enough. I would (not that anyone would listen) set it at about 20m.

Wants a cap to make the game easier. Gets a cap. Unhappy with a cap.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Also this, you bunch of BOOMERS... -
But at the end of the day the league works and I'm happy to leave as is. I do think talking about ways to improve the league makes for a better league though, and it's nice to have a record of suggestions for a time when people do want change.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I think a cap is great,
Wait 4-5 years when the talent level is even worse because we have dudes who are just chilling in this no where land. The cap was a terrible idea from the start.

You (and Lenin) wanted to change the league. The league is changed (for the worse). IFA NEVER favored teams with the biggest budgets. It favored the teams that set their budgets up right. I've said it before but making IFA harder to get prospects has made it even worse for teams trying to climb up the league.

Having talent distribution even is just such a dumb idea I don't know where to start. Certain teams shoudul be focusing on winning while others building. When all are in the same boat in terms of young talent, it's NOT good for the league. The building teams are limited by how much they can focus on talent acquisition.

IMO -- Get rid of the feeder leagues. They are messing up the talent pool.

Another theory: injuries that happen in feeder leagues are significant because they happen at such a young age. That's when the biggest and quickest development happen especially defensively.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
I like you @doh , but most of this is total guff. I'm tired and about to go to sleep, and I can't be bothered to get into it anyway as I don't really care and am tired of it. The league is fine however it's set up. The nuances are mostly superfluous and most people should be able to adjust anyway (including myself). Unlimited IFA - I'm happy. Everyone a bum - I'm cool with that. None of this matters.
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
The game is set up to go through cycles of hitting and pitching. We are definitely in a hitting cycle.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I like you @doh , but most of this is total guff. I'm tired and about to go to sleep, and I can't be bothered to get into it anyway as I don't really care and am tired of it. The league is fine however it's set up. The nuances are mostly superfluous and most people should be able to adjust anyway (including myself). Unlimited IFA - I'm happy. Everyone a bum - I'm cool with that. None of this matters.
I like you too :love:

I just think everything you said was wrong in terms of making talent distribution more "even". The idea is for teams with a choice on budget on buying FAs vs. IFAs. Trading salary vs taking it on. The current vs. future. The current system means there is no choice to be made anymore. I'm forced to spend basically $90m on FAs this off-season vs. $50m on IFA (with penalties) and $40m on FAs. I don't think that's good for the have nots.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
I like you too :love:

I just think everything you said was wrong in terms of making talent distribution more "even". The idea is for teams with a choice on budget on buying FAs vs. IFAs. Trading salary vs taking it on. The current vs. future. The current system means there is no choice to be made anymore. I'm forced to spend basically $90m on FAs this off-season vs. $50m on IFA (with penalties) and $40m on FAs. I don't think that's good for the have nots.

Well I'm genuinely happy to try anything, so I don't mind switching it back. I do stand by everything I said, but as you say there are knock on effects. I think the best thing would be to increase talent levels in the feeder leagues (I honestly think this would be a good thing), and switch back to uncapped IFA, but I've tarnished my brand SO MUCH, that just by suggesting this it probably means it won't happen.... :laughing:
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Just looked at Ferhat's ratings..... LAWD.

I'll do a Tankee level deal for him.
 
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